Bernie's comments annoy me and you may not like Hillary, but we're being baited

[ecstatic]

Can we all agree that Hillary, Bernie, and most democrats/progressives have good intentions? Great! We are not enemies! If you're at the point where you think we are enemies, it's time to step back, take a break, and let some of the fake news wear off.

If Bernie/Hillary or some other well-meaning Democrat says something stupid, we should be able to discuss it, laugh, roll our eyes and move on. Yes we have different methods and priorities and timetables. But we can work together as we've always done.

Someone (in Russia?) is having a LOT of fun riling up both sides and eating popcorn as the fireworks erupt. That thought annoys me more than anything Bernie could ever say or do because there is so much at stake. If we don't get this right starting this year in the runoffs through 2018, it's over for our movement, and maybe for the country as well. The end!

[TBA]

1. You are Correct Sir or Madam

I avoid anything that seems divisive assuming it is propaganda.

[Sculpin Beauregard]

2. I agree. Actives measures and trolling are in full force. I admit to being baited.

If TrumpRussia wins again, we all lose – all of us, everywhere, worldwide.

[Iggo]

3. I like them both and I'm sick of the Party-Unity-My-Ass attitude around here.

[Hortensis]

33. Put the sickening ones on "ignore" and watch magic happen.

DU becomes a meeting place of all sorts of thoughtful people. I do and strongly recommend it, even if an indulgence in partisan indignation on my part means you choose to never see me again.

[Iggo]

39. I'd rather not. Once I put a person on ignore, there they stay.

I'll ride it out like I did in the most recent primary. Not happy about it, though.

[beam me up scottie]

38. Yep. And kudos for the PUMA reference.

It does feel like we're reliving 2008. We ignore those calling for unity at our peril.

[jberryhill]

4. Yep

[4now]

5. Yes we should be smarter then this

We should look to the future not the past.

[Va Lefty]

6. Could not agree more!

[matt819]

7. Thank you for this

Here's a project for some clever DUers, or DU itself. Can you create an app or otherwise identify the anti-Bernie (or, for that matter, the anti-Hillary) posters as trolls - based on IP addresses, wording of posts, posting statistics, comparing wording to posts across the internet (using anti-plagiarism software, for example).

On the one hand, you don't want to inhibit free speech. On the other, we don't want to be set up for failure because trolls are dividing and conquering. Maybe it's time, for example, to relegate Bernie-bashing or Hillary-bashing posts to their own topic categories. As with 9-11 truther posts, this is a sure route to oblivion for these posts. Don't even include them on latest posts. If people want to seek out and participate in Dem-bashing, they have to make an effort and leave the rest of us out of it.

[mopinko]

20. ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore,

ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore.

the admins know who is being ignored. sometimes it is misleading. trolls can play w that, too. still....

[ProfessorPlum]

25. Works for me

Let a certain group of people eat static, in their little circular corner of DU, and rec each other's posts to their hearts content.

We have work to do with dolt 45

[emulatorloo]

28. Good idea. I'm putting the flame-baiters on ignore later today.

[OldHippieChick]

35. This!

eom

[matt819]

42. Agreed

I have about 60 names on ignore. And I'll add more. But that still leaves thousands who will be diverted and distracted by the divisive trolls.

[Dustlawyer]

48. Agree!!!

Something needs to be done because this crap is out of control. We all have bigger fish to fry now. I will support anything that Bernie or Hillary do or say with regards to moving forward and fighting the Republicans.

We are in perilous times and must be strong in fighting the corruption in our government. To do that effectively we must win in 2018 and 2020!

[elleng]

8. Right.

Thanks.

[Blanks]

9. You're on the right track...

But I think where our failing exists is that we aren't shaping our anti-republican 'rhetoric' as effectively as THEY (whoever they is) are at creating the divisiveness.

We fight with one another instead of mobilizing with a 'meme of the day' type message.

This is why THEY are successful, they keep repeating something until it seems true, while we try to fine tune our message. Our message should be simple.

For example: the house ethics committee had a press conference on Flynn's illegal activity and the White House refused to provide documentation, and we are bickering about party purity. This is why we can't get momentum.

I think we need to be more 'in your face' about the bad news for republicans, and less talk about bad news for democrats, but that's just me.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. Agreed (eom)

[LovingA2andMI]

11. This Right Here

You are BEYOND OH-SO-RIGHT!!!

[LanternWaste]

54. so that's a good thing.

Well, you're not tin-godding animal abuse, so that's a good thing.

[ancianita]

12. Yup. Unity. Not uniformity. Utilitarian unity gets behind the greatest good for the greatest number

[onecaliberal]

13. Yup!

[CousinIT]

14. Yup. This tactic worked SO WELL in the primaries and the GE, they've made it permanent.

How to defeat it? DON'T. TAKE. THE. BAIT.

THE PEOPLE UNITED will never be defeated.

[ecstatic]

32. Agreed, and I want to clarify that this isn't about attacking

people who are currently outraged about Bernie's endorsement of an anti-choice candidate. But we have to keep in mind that Bernie isn't in charge, he's not running anything. So at the end of the day, it's just his opinion.

[Iggo]

44. The way we defeated it last time was we had a Dem president.

We don't have that this time around and it would seem all bets are off.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

15. Examine the posting records of high velocity posters for CONCERN trolling.

Look especially for those who signed up recently (last few months) and have averaged more than 5 or 10 posts a day. Of course many of those posters are legitimate, but it is the first stage of filtering.

Then look among those for posters who have a high number of [font size = "+1"]concern[/font] posts. I'm not a star member (for various reasons) so I can't do this kind of research.

Concern trolling is a passive-aggressive way to get people stirred up. It is favored by trolls because it is not a direct frontal attack on a member or a community policy or community consensus.

"Why is Bernie not helping as much as he could?"
"Couldn't Hillary have tried harder?"
... and so on and so forth, etcetera, etcetera.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/1/632558/-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2014/01/13/enter-the-concern-troll/

The second {way of disagreeing} is insidious.

The second is condescending, insincere, manipulative. It even says so in the Urban Dictionary definition.

The darkest moment is always just after the concern trolls start pouring in.

“I’m with you,” the concern troll says. “But surely you must see how this looks to people. Not me, of course. But other people. They might think horrible things of you. People might think you were self-centered, fat, slow, rude. Not me, of course. I’m with you. I have your best interests at heart. That’s why I want to warn you. I, you see, know how this ought to be done.”

There is some Faceless Someone out there who is absolutely merciless. That Faceless Someone is saying or might say Terrible, Awful Things.

The concern troll does not agree, of course. But the concern troll wants to make sure you know.

[mopinko]

23. perhaps the guys could make this an infraction. juries

so seldom pick this stuff up. i have been dinged for 0-7 juries many times when someone sets off my well honed trolldar.
i have no doubt that these posters would have been examined and dinged by the mods. but the subtlety is lost on most juries, especially w/o access to posting history.

[berksdem]

16. Amen!

[Roy Rolling]

17. Yes

Baiting is the whole Russian propaganda effort, which is little more than the GOP propaganda effort on steroids.

[Cary]

18. Vote Democratic!

[annabanana]

19. Botskis and Trollskis . . yes indeed! . . .n/t

[Saviolo]

21. Time to unite and take the fight where it belongs

To the Republicans who are the real enemy.

I can't believe all the bickering over who's a better progressive when this guy, an ACTUAL REPUBLICAN IN POWER doesn't warrant a discussion here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028977360

Content warning for extreme misogyny and rape apologia.

[YOHABLO]

30. I honestly think this is coming from entities that want to divide us.

We've got to be smarter than this folks.

[beam me up scottie]

36. Well said.

Anyone who thinks Democrats and progressives are the enemy hasn't been paying attention.

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. Absolutely. You got to the heart of it, thanks

As a personal gesture when I find a thread positive toward Hillary I support it if I can (which usually I can), and if for any reason I have a problem doing so, my next preferred choice is to bite my tongue (which usually I can).

[Pauldg47]

26. Are you a Rooski?

[BittyJenkins]

31. I had to look that one up in the urban dictionary...

I agree with with ecstatic's original post. I just wanted to let you know that Rooski is what my daughter calls me and it is an affectionate name.

We need to hang together

[Pauldg47]

50. Yes!

[lovemydogs]

27. I was a Bernie supporter who cried everyday after the election

I think I burst out crying almost everyday until Feb. when Hillary lost.
So, part of the title is not correct.
I actually liked Hillary.
When Bernie lost I was not happy but, did not hate Hillary.
I also have the wadded up tissue to prove it.

[calimary]

34. Welcome to DU, lovemydogs!

I loved Hillary, and still do. She's still My President (in exile).

And to this very hour I still don't understand how or why people can hate her. Just don't see it. Can't figure it out. Especially when so much, if not all of it, stems from LIES told and spread about her. She's become almost a latter-day Joan of Arc figure to me by now. And I STILL want those brains in the Oval Office.

[democrattotheend]

45. Same here

I supported Bernie in the primaries but had no trouble supporting Hillary in the general and was devastated when she lost. Welcome to DU, btw.

[LiberalLovinLug]

53. you represent the vast majority of Bernie supporters

Yet there seems to be an angry bitter segment that wants to blame Sanders and his supporters for the loss. And their resentment has blinded them to the idea of unity. They promote, insinuate, or imply this fake reality that the majority of Bernie supporters were "Bernie or Bust"ers. That his more progressive platform made her look bad, or that his criticisms of her and the establishment of the Democratic party, of which the Clintons are a part of, was verboten, with no quarter given for the fact that he was in a primary contention with her, so what the hell did they expect? No criticism? He was careful to not use right wing fake news smears, but only what he saw that was counter productive to progressive advancements for the country. And then when he lost, he endorsed her and worked to get Democrats elected. I wish they'd just let it go.

Its just a little frustrating because Bernie supporters swallowed our hopes for what a Sanders presidency could have done for the country, and went for our second choice - because we knew it was important for party unity and winning

And now, when the party is trying to unify post-election, which means including Sanders influence and popularity, and we need their support to swallow whatever resentments they have for him, they stomp their feet and huddle in corners waiting for the first pro-Sanders OP to pop up so they can be one of the first to derail it. Its difficult not to be angry back at such childishness. I know I shouldn't take the bait so often, and I'll try to bite my tongue more often in the future.

[NRaleighLiberal]

29. Kick and Rec

[Akamai]

37. Goddamned correct! A thousand percent right on! No if's, ands, or buts!

[Leith]

40. Thank You!

For the life of me, I can not figure out people who keep the hatred going around here. So a politician said something that you don't agree with? That's no reason to keep posting the same thing over and over and over while arguing with anyone who doesn't agree and hate the same way.

[QC]

41. I voted for both of them and would gladly do it again.

I would gladly take either of them.

[Iggo]

43. Absolutely!

[democrattotheend]

46. Same

I even had fun paraphrasing John Kerry and bragging that I "voted against her (twice) before I voted for her." Although both times (2008 and 2016), my primary vote was a vote for her opponent, not against her.

[compsports]

47. As one who voted for Sanders in the primary

I wish he would disappear. This salon article perfectly sums up my views.

http://www.salon.com/2017/04/24/bye-bye-bernie-the-self-appointed-captain-of-the-democratic-ship-needs-to-stop-chasing-the-great-white-male/

And no, I am not a troll as I have been unhappy with him for quite awhile.

[flamingdem]

49. Suggestion: take the time to research the bs post titles and posters claims

and the news media as well.

Half of what's being said even by "reliable" sources is false.

Somehow things are getting distorted, I blame shoddy journalism and selfish repetition of lies more than Russian trolls.

[Expecting Rain]

51. Blaming the Russians for the words and actions of Bernie Sanders is absurd.

I wish I could agree that all have good intentions and that we don't have enemies in the tent, and all the uproar is a result of "fake news."

But that conclusion is not supported by my sense of the cold realities.

[kimbutgar]

52. Yes, Bernie and Hillary is last year's story they lost to chump.

Russia is trying to divide us liberals and sabotage the 2018 election. And don't get me started on that idiot probably Russian funded Cornell West wanting to start a new party. When I see him on Tv I change the channel.