Post removed

[pnwmom]

1. He'd be okay if he were still a Democrat. How is he supposed to be encouraging people

to join the party when he won't?

[NurseJackie]

9. ...

[Control-Z]

63. ...

[Grassy Knoll]

94. Ouch!

[brush]

102. ...

[chwaliszewski]

130. Completely disagree!

Listing Bernie as one of the reasons Hillary lost is complete and utter bunk and is what I consider Implausible Deniability. If Hillary ran unopposed in the Democratic primary, there is no guarantee that the outcome of the general election would have been any different. So, please stop it with this rubbish, Doodley. It doesn't help change the results of the election.

[chwaliszewski]

177. If I'm not mistaken, Bernie was preaching about how Trump could not be allowed to win.

And to be honest, talking about Hillary's loss, almost 6 months after the fact is unproductive. As is going on and on about the primary last year.

[chwaliszewski]

189. I don't think you're seeing the big picture.

If Hillary lost because of a combination of outside influence (Russian hacking), gerrymandering (voter suppression), the nonstop MSM cheerleading of Trump, the October surprise of James Comey, and many other things, then why worry about what a non-Democrat has to say? Democrats should be focused on two things. One, why have we been losing seats steadily the last few elections on all levels of government, and two, how do we keep out next presidential candidate from losing the same way as Hillary?

[chwaliszewski]

210. My comments were not insulting.

You have chosen to feel insulted by my earlier reply. However, if you do feel I have insulted you by my original reply then I shall reciprocate and state that I feel insulted that such a callow, slanderous accusation could be made about a fellow progressive.

[NurseJackie]

294. LOL! (IKYABWAI?)

[fleabiscuit]

393. +1

[Gothmog]

436. What does IKYABWAI stand for?

[NurseJackie]

449. ...

[Gothmog]

455. Thank you

[Demit]

290. For the record, in 2016 we picked up 6 seats in the House and 2 in the Senate.

[George II]

358. People seem to forget that.

[NurseJackie]

486. They haven't "forgotten"... it's just that they LITERALLY believe their own propaganda and bullshit.

It makes me sad to see things like that. I suppose I should lower my expectations and I wouldn't be so disappointed.

When simple facts like the ones mentioned here are glossed over or erased or ignored... that tells me something about the person doing that, and it's not very flattering at all. It's generally the die-hard hangers-on of the "omg-omg-omg-we-still-hate-Debbie-Wasserman-Schultz" group who just can't let go... and that's just sad. It's divisive and disruptive.

[Me.]

373. Good One

[Fresh_Start]

379. Bernie assisted Putin in defeating Hillary

because Bernie divided the left...and some of that division STILL has not healed.

[Gothmog]

438. Jill Stein and the idiots on JPR helped

There was so much fake russian news on JPR that it was not funny. JPR had so many pizzagate threads that the JPR admins eventually had to ban these threads.

[putitinD]

381. +1

[Gothmog]

434. I strongly disagree with your analysis and conclusions

[Chasstev365]

304. BS!

[mythology]

385. Pure speculation without any supporting evidence

Clinton won the popular vote and was predicted to win the electoral college without the second Comey announcement in October. Her poll numbers dropped after that to the point where Trump won the electoral college.

Sanders didn't cause her to lose.

[trueblue2007]

489. Yes he did.

[jrthin]

388. ...

[Kaye_NY]

8. The NY Post, a right wing rag

is now having fun using Bernie Sanders gaffes.

His message is not helpful. His message was also rejected by Democrats in the primary. It's time to cut his mike. Our attention is on fighting against Trump and working to take back the House and Senate.

Bernie is not being helpful towards this goal, at all. His message is a big failure. It failed in the primary and it's failing now. It's time to find another voice to advance our goals.

[pnwmom]

11. Welcome to DU, Kaye_NY!

[pnwmom]

190. A 4 post person is suggesting something is wrong with a 48 post person?

Pretty funny really.

[Cha]

233. You are calling out a "48 post" person?! And, asking if

we "smell something"?

[fleabiscuit]

398. It takes awhile to get post count back up to where it used to be. People forget that. :-) nt

[Cha]

401. Thanks for the

heads up, flea!

[Jamaal510]

26. +1

[NurseJackie]

30. :-D

[Sunlei]

349. New York, the only Free College State, thanks to Hillary & Bernie

[Demsrule86]

435. No, neither represent New York...thanks Gov. Cuomo and the legislature.

[Gothmog]

441. BTW, Kaye welcome to DU

I really mean this. I like your OP

[sheshe2]

57. Wow.

Thank you, never thought of it that way. You are correct, pnwmom.

[Tom Rinaldo]

322. We have tons of people ecouraging people to join the Democratic Party

...on a local level I am one of them. I think the Democratic party is a good vehicle to use to drive our nation in a positive direction. But what I really care about is having our nation move in a positive direction. That is the goal, he Democratic Party is a vehicle. I learned long ago during the Civil Right Rights Movement and Vietnam War protests that there are always more than one vehicle available to be used.

Bernie carries a message that lines up well with the values of most of our Party members, which is one reason why he and Hillary were able to reach agreement on a Democratic Party platform in 2016. He is a messenger for that platform more so than for our Party, but it is our platform, not the Republican's. And Bernie clearly said in 2016 that he urged people to vote Democratic because of that. And he is saying the same thing now.

This year 30% of the public self identified as Democrats, 42% as Independents. We need Independents to vote Democratic in order to win most elections. And that is what Bernie says they should do. So yes you can accurately state that Bernie isn't going around urging people to register as Democrats - just to embrace the beliefs of our Party and to vote for Democrats who uphold them against Republicans. Personally I think it helps the Democratic Party overall to have at least one high profile Independent voice making that case for us.

If Sanders wanted people to vote for Jill Stein or the Libertarians he would have said so, but he didn't. Hell he could easily have run third party himself. Instead he made the case for voting for the Democrat. Bernie didn't invent discontent with the two major parties. He is an Independent, which represents the largest voting block in the nation. And he is an Independent who says look first toward the Democrats for answers when you enter the polling booth. I think it is valuable to have him making that case in those terms.

[Gothmog]

432. Sanders is running as an independent for Senate and will not turn over his e-mail list

The only reason to keep his e-mail list is to preserve Sanders ability to run as a third party

[trueblue2007]

490. Why won't he? I am mystified by this point. If I were Bernie, I'd be a Dem.

[pbmus]

3. Let those that can win and act, do it...in the meantime

Bernie can continue to speak about the obvious until he dies onstage , imo

[Snackshack]

29. Agreed.

It would be great to see another member or multiple members of the opposition party Dem, Independent, DNC...anyone stand up and speak to the issues as Bernie is/does but so far no one has. People may not agree with everything Bernie says or how he delivers it but at least he is speaking out which is a lot more than can be said for the rest.

So as you say in the meantime he can continue.

[Akamai]

78. I believe that Bernie is really truly speaking truth to power, and absolutely love what he says.

anyone who thinks is words are not pushing for the Democratic message (for example, his responses to trump today) are wrong, I believe.

I never regretted voting for him in the primary and certainly did not regret voting for Hillary in general. I think either or both of them would be wonderful leaders.

also, I would like to caution some of the posters on here about alienating the huge number of people who voted for Bernie who were not long-time Democrats. The Democratic party alienates Bernie supporters at its own risk. This is a fact of life, and if we don't welcome those youngsters who came on board because of Bernie, then we are slamming the door in the face of an important group of voters.

Why be cynical and snarky at this time when we have huge hills to climb? Vast oceans of ignorance to overcome?

[womanofthehills]

85. Agreed - I voted for Bernie in the primary and Hillary in the general

I hate this Bernie bashing - it is a big turnoff. There are so many things going on in the world esp. with Trump/Russia but some people on DU just want to bash Bernie forever. Why can't you move on?

[secondwind]

90. same here..There's enough room under the tent for ALL of us

[brush]

104. A lot of us hate the Dem bashing also. Why doesn't he just stop it? That doesn't help the party.

[brush]

196. Oh please. Stop with the "Dems and Hillary lost because she ran a horrible campaign" meme...

when every sentient being knows, or should damn well know that Comey, Putin, Interstate Crosscheck, gerrymandering and Assange helped the repugs steal the damn election that Clinton actually won by 3 million votes.

That's why.

And if a certain someone hadn't trashed the party for the entire campaign maybe some of those third party voters and non-voters would've voted Dem and we wouldn't be staring at 1360 more days of fucking donald trump.

[Demsrule86]

259. The Democratic party 'model' is not failing, the Mello thing wounded the

the Democratic Party unnecessarily and was dismissive of Democratic pro-choice women(the biggest constituency in the Democratic Party),Trump is not doing a good job on Korea and Pres. Obama can make a speech any damn place he chooses. Sen. Sander's comments in the last couple of weeks have been less than helpful. I have no idea why. He seems angry with the Democratic Party...it may stem from last year. I don't know. I do know his words will not help us win in 18 and 20:quite the opposite.

[JustAnotherGen]

270. They let their bigotry take priority

Over their checking account.

[Cha]

285. Who are these "Billionaire" Dems?????

Tell BS to Stop "Sniping" at the Democratic Party.

[secondwind]

89. amen

[Cha]

256. The Big Problem is.. When BS has a mic he normalizes

trump and insults the Democratic Party.. he's divisive and wrong.

[ucrdem]

281. QFT!

[Cha]

289. Mahalo, ucr!

[Gothmog]

444. Agree-Great post Cha

[ucrdem]

279. How is that different from bullying?

Which is undeniably in play here, as Sanders has made a career out of threatening to take his vote and go home or run as a spoiler and tip the scales against his Democratic colleagues. It makes Schumer look weak minded frankly because his new star pupil keeps cussing out the school.

[Cha]

301. ..

Thank you.

[NastyRiffraff]

399. +1,000

AND he's refusing to share his donor list with the Democratic Party. How is that helping the "outreach" he's supposed to be doing. And as someone said, how can he outreach for the party when he isn't (by his own words) a Democrat?

I really wish Schumer and Tom Perez hadn't given him roles in the party, but they have and we have to live with it. But he's not helping.

[Cha]

288. "The Obvious".. he can STOP Speaking about Insulting President Obama

and the Democratic Party. Do you think he's not dividing?.. do you not think there are those who are offended at his Divisiveness?

That.. he can just STOP.

[Eliot Rosewater]

410. I am unclear as to what I can and cannot say here about Bernie.

I know for a fact his movement is dividing the party and it is going to almost guarantee more GOP power, but if I say that I am not sure if I will get in trouble.

[Cha]

415. Well said, Elliot.. I think that is just right.

He can be criticized.. he puts himself out there insulting President Obama and the Democratic Party.

He can be called out on that.

[manicraven]

4. This is just utter nonsense. Bernie is a voice of reason.

The Democrats have done so well that we've lost thousands of seats! I think we need to keep our doors and windows open at this point 'cause we're not doing so well. Bernie has a message that resonates with many, many people.

[pnwmom]

12. Gerrymandering and voter suppression caused most of those losses. n/t

[Kaye_NY]

13. There is a reason he lost the primary.

His voice and his message do not represent the Democratic Party.

I find his dismissiveness of social issues to be cringe worthy.

[chwaliszewski]

144. There is a reason she lost the general.

Her voice and her message did not represent the majority of the country, whether we agree on that or not. There is a reason Hillary did not win and still another why Democrats keep losing seats across the board and we need to figure out why this is happening. Therefore, I'm open to trying new ideas because whatever we're doing now isn't working too well.

[mythology]

390. That reason is the second Comey announcement

And given that she won the popular vote, she does have a claim to representing the country, or at least voters who turned out.

Sanders lost the primary because in the end, the majority of Democrats preferred another candidate. How does Sanders regularly bashing the Democratic party help win seats?

[progressoid]

460. "Comey" doesn't explain why we also lost hundreds of seats across the country.

It was a defeat at the local, state, and federal level.

[fleabiscuit]

412. That line of thinking is nonsense.

HRC won millions more votes than BS, and millions of more votes than Orange Shitgibbon.

[Gothmog]

446. Yes there is a reason why Sanders lost the primary

We need to come together as a party and Sanders is slowing that process down

[NurseJackie]

32. Not as many as you may imagine (or hope).

[Akamai]

83. The issues that Bernie focused on are issues that motivate and eenergize well over half

of the voting public. I sure agree with you that Bernie is a voice of reason, and more than that, he is a voice of hope, a voice of showing people what the world can be, and also thereby showing the contrast between what should be and what the Republican view is--and the Republican view is one of hell, dystopia, of going backwards.

Bernie's issues--including the incredible problem of student debt--should concern us all, and certainly do concern the younger voters. Those include: climate change, maintaining healthcare, income inequality, racism, reducing the military budget, etc.

[Demsrule86]

265. I agree with all of Bernie's issues except the anti-choice endorsements...

That is not the issue. If you go on twitter you will see the damage that is being done by his comments. I would be angry with a Democrat that said what he said. It is divisive: I can't understand how praising Trump's Korea strategy could ever be considered
a good idea, and it is not even true. Trump is a disaster and has brought us to the brink of nuclear war.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the Democratic Party. We need to encourage people to join us and fight Trump. Sen. Sander's words just don't don't do that.

[manicraven]

5. Our target is not Bernie Sanders. It's Donald Trump.

[Kaye_NY]

15. I agree.

But Bernie is not the messenger to help our cause.

[babylonsister]

18. Our cause? Late to the party imo. nt

[Kaye_NY]

45. Yes.

Democratic causes. Democratic values. The Democratic platform.

How is that confusing to you?

[womanofthehills]

33. Well, Bernie seems to be the one going out there and speaking

Who else is doing what Bernie is doing??

[Kaye_NY]

47. Trump.

nuff said

[womanofthehills]

100. What exactly do you mean? Are you saying Bernie is like Trump?????????

[chwaliszewski]

149. nuff said?

Maybe there are other things to be said besides a one word response.

[womanofthehills]

88. However, Bernie is out their helping our cause

What other senators are out their promoting the cause? Who is putting in as much time as Bernie?

[Demsrule86]

337. "helping or cause" ...He said Trump was right on Korea!

Sen. Sanders said the 'Democratic Party is a failing model". The unity tour was a disaster. How exactly has Sen. Sanders helped our cause?

[Cha]

25. Tell it to BS that his target is not The Democratic Party

when he insults them.. but dt.

[NurseJackie]

35. I know, right?

[Cha]

44. They want the "BS bashing to stop".. they need to

contact BS and tell him to stop with his ugly insults to our well respected Democratic President And the Democratic Party.. quid pro quo..

Link to tweet

:grouhug: candle:

[NurseJackie]

51. Who's bashing? Nobody is "bashing" ... I call it pushing back.

In my opinion, what he's doing (now, in 2017*) and what he's saying (now, in 2017*) are all mistakes. It's divisive and it weakens the party. He needs to stop.



* Note, the "primaries" were in 2016.

[Cha]

58. Exactly.. it's not "bashing" when people are pushing BACK

against his Divisive insults.

[fleabiscuit]

419. It is the resistance that is the current driving force moving forward. Mostly women.

Some politicians slip in behind the wind and draft behind them then proclaim they are in the lead.
Mostly men.

[Cha]

431. Yes, it's quite noticable with the aide of the M$M

I just had someone say that he as "filling a vacuum".

Thank you for this, flea

[trueblue2007]

492. I agree with Peter Daou's twitter comment. with this particular opinion.

I don't think he should be bashing President Obama. Even in our TOS, we can't bash our Democratic lawmakers. I think we need to return to the positive points and great things President Obama has done for our country.

And..... isn't there a problem with Bernie's financials like he didn't produce his tax information. Why is that?

[Demsrule86]

266. Our target is not the Democratic Party; it is Trump and the Republican death cult.

[Cartoonist]

6. I am sick of this Bernie bashing

He didn't lose to the orange one, Hillary did. It's time for the Democratic party to look in the mirror instead of its navel.

[Kaye_NY]

16. And I'm sick of the argument that you attempt to make.

Bernie lost to Hillary. There is a reason why he did. Look in the mirror and figure it out.

[brush]

108. Sanders still hasn't released his taxes. Why?

[Tarheel_Dem]

262. I care what's in them, and my name ain't "David Brock".

[Cha]

313. That's not true.. Millions want to know where they are..

[lapucelle]

354. Isn't that the same argument that Trump is making?

I'd love to see what's in those tax returns.

[Cha]

19. Right.. BS wasn't even in the GE. The Democratic Party

has strong leaders.. and all you have are ugly insults.

[Cha]

101. No, I meant what I said.. BS is out there insulting President Obama

and even his fans are pushing back on his divisive rhetoric.

BS lost the Rude Pundit, too.

[Akamai]

111. while I really respect Obama in so many ways, that $400,000 speaking fee seems excessive.

Pres. Carter never took such a speaking fee, and while I do not think necessarily it binds Pres. Obama to the bankster class, I do think the whole thing is a bit unseemly and may suggest that Obama will do other things for money as well. (Although I have no indications that he would do so at all, and really admire deeply the wonderful president he is been for eight years.) But I think he would be even a greater president if he had not engaged in this transaction.

[radical noodle]

122. His presidency is over

Why would we not want big banks to hear our side too? One of his best talents has been public speaking. He should use that, and if he can earn money at the same time, he should take it. What's he going to do, tell trump to help the banksters? That's already being done.

[Akamai]

125. I'm not fond of the idea of having one of our stalwarts take money from people I consider our enemy.

there are a variety of ways to justify what Obama did, but to my way of thinking, it would've been better if he had not done it.

I do believe that over time Obama will refuse such large speaking fees from organizations/sectors of the economy that have preyed on our citizens.

[radical noodle]

129. I guess we will have to agree to disagree

He is one of our best voices, and he should use that voice as often as he can. No sense preaching to the choir, although he no doubt will sometimes.

[Akamai]

138. Yes -- disagreements happen in families, but I object to

those who call Bernie's criticisms "insults". I have heard many insults and that is clearly not what Bernie intended or said.

[Cha]

249. President Obama is speaking to Cantor-Fitzgerald, rad..

Why Obama SHOULD Make That Speech - And Take The Paycheck For It Too

snip//

Cantor Fitzgerald survived both losing the largest single number of employees (658) of any company with offices in the World Trade Center on 9/11 and they also survived the financial crisis because they were NOT engaging in the same reckless behavior as the other financial firms (like Lehman, AIG, et al).

Moreover, Cantor Fitzgerald has done a great deal of philanthropic work in honor of their lost employees. Along with keeping a promise to use 25% of ALL profits they earned for the next 5 years to provide money to each of the original 658 families, they also promised to cover the health insurance costs for those families for 10 years. On top of this, they have continued the legacy of those lost employees, by making charitable donations to help the victims of Hurricane Sandy and of a huge tornado, as well as other acts of kindness.

So Obama, now a PRIVATE CITIZEN, is giving a speech to a firm that survived a horrible tragedy that has impacted life in America in uncountable ways ever since, and who turned their pain into positive action by not only taking care of their own, but helping others as well. They have also recovered as a company, avoided the worst behaviors that led to the 2008 financial crisis (actually profiting in a year when so many larger investment firms folded — and hiring when thousands were being laid off), and continue to invest in smart ways (one current project involves connecting people with their own local “mom & pop” shops).

Basically, Obama is being paid to give a speech to the ONE company on Wall Street that no one should be criticizing. Oh, and by the way — he’s giving this speech at their annual healthcare conference… a subject that Obama cares deeply about — and will forever be associated with since his signature healthcare legislation has been dubbed “Obamacare”. It’s also an issue that Cantor Fitzgerald championed even while still reeling from the losses they suffered on 9/11, by promising to cover the health care of the families of their lost employees for 10 years!!

More..
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/4/28/1657222/-Why-Obama-SHOULD-Make-That-Speech-And-Take-The-Paycheck-For-It-Too

Link to tweet

As you can see BS got it wrong, too

Link to tweet

Mahalo, radical, for standing up for Truth!

[Cha]

124. No, it doesn't.. President Obama has a right to earn

what they pay for his knowledge, experience, and expertise.

It's not like he isn't going to be putting it to good use to train Democratic Leaders..

Link to tweet

I don't care what others have or have not done.

[Akamai]

127. Obama clearly has the right to earn the money, and I clearly have the right to object.

Or am I wrong?

As a Democrat, I do not (hopefully) go along with consensus but voice my views. And on this matter, although Obama clearly has the right to accept huge amounts of money from bankers, corporate leaders, etc., it is difficult to think that others looking at the situation would not believe that he is influenced by large amounts of money changing hands.

I know that if some stranger approached me as I was walking down the street and offered me a very large sum of money, then when that stranger called me on my phone, I would be responsive to what he/she wanted.

Or am I wrong?

And I do think that Obama's responsibility to the country did not stop at the end of his presidency, but it continues on. He is hopefully going to demonstrate to us what activist citizens can and should do, and this includes not taking "golden handcuffs."

Or am I wrong?

[Cha]

128. Oh Please do Proceed with your Objecting.. you

approached me. I couldn't care less what you do.

Meanwhile BS is out there normalizing trump while insulting our Well Respected Democratic President..

Sanders: Trump on right track with North Korea

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/bernie-sanders-north-korea-donald-trump-cnntv/

Link to tweet

[sarah FAILIN]

173. What do you think he is going to do?

Look at the mess we have in control and you're worried about Obama taking speech fees?
Chelsea Clinton gets 65K, Gloria Steinem gets 30k, Cokie Roberts 40k, Tina Brown 50k, Lesley Stahl 50k and Mike Flynn supposedly gets 45k. Don't you think Obama is more valued than these people? I don't even know who some of those people are..

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/chelsea-clinton-speaking-fee-university-missouri-119580

[Akamai]

188. I know who all of them are and none of them are politicians,

but they are media people, etc., and I -- and many other voters -- would be happier if they did not step up to the public trough.

Except for Chelsea who is working for the Clinton Foundation.

In Julius Caesar, Shakespeare writes that not only do public leaders have be beyond reproach, they have to appear to be beyond reproach, "like Caesar's wife."

If all the major Democratic candidates took a lot of money from Wall Street, it would lead to the average voter being increasingly distrustful of our message, whether or not they were actually corrupted.

[sarah FAILIN]

199. Obama is no longer a Dem candidate or our leader

So I think he can take whatever fees he wants and anyone spouting off about it is just starting trouble.

He is definitely more desirable than any of those named. Tina Roberts may as well be the lunch lady at the high school for all I know of her. If I have to google someone, I don't want to hear them speak..

[Cha]

251. "Oh, and by the way he's giving this speech at their annual healthcare conference a subject that

Oh, and by the way — he’s giving this speech at their annual healthcare conference… a subject that Obama cares deeply about — and will forever be associated with since his signature healthcare legislation has been dubbed “Obamacare”. It’s also an issue that Cantor Fitzgerald championed even while still reeling from the losses they suffered on 9/11, by promising to cover the health care of the families of their lost employees for 10 years!!

More..
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/4/28/1657222/-Why-Obama-SHOULD-Make-That-Speech-And-Take-The-Paycheck-For-It-Too

[Demsrule86]

267. No it wasn't excessive. It is not anyone's business...and to attack a popular Democratic president

who is doing the same as any other president before him is a foolish thing to do. Pres. Obama can help us beat Trump and does not deserve this sort of treatment...I am white hot angry about this.

[Me.]

375. Then You Must Be Really Annoyed

That Hillary Duff can get 500K a pop and Kevin Federline 300K

[tonedevil]

488. I'm sad to live in a world...

where anyone would pay Kevin Federline any amount of money to say anything. President Obama pulling $400,000.00 to speak seems a bargain at twice the price.

[Me.]

493. Totally

Britney Spear's former husband? Really?

[Cha]

220. Talk to BS about his initials.

[Cha]

223. Why not?

[Cha]

226. Please don't tell me how to post.

[Cha]

228. I don't care how they come across to you.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

235. NO, it's BS that's Wrong And Divisive.. he's always insulting

the Democratic Party and Normalizing trump.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

239. Sanders: Trump on right track with North Korea

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/bernie-sanders-north-korea-donald-trump-cnntv/

BS Normalizing trump when he's not insulting the Democratic Party every time he gets his face in front of a camera.

[Cha]

242. The M$M works hard enough @ Normalizing trump.. BS doesn't

have to jump on the bandwagon.

[Demsrule86]

287. Easy less divisive fix... say,"China needs to take a greater roll". See no praise of Trump in that

statement.

[Demsrule86]

422. It is less...he should have left the praising Trump part out.

[Demsrule86]

437. This part..."Trump is on right track with Korea".

[Demsrule86]

452. It is saying something positive about Trump

so yes it is praise and should not have been said in my opinion.

[NastyRiffraff]

402. Dump isn't helping with China

It's in China's interest to help rein in N. Korea. China DOES NOT RESPECT DUMP. At all. China will do what's good for China, whatever Dump bleats about. Sanders is full of it on that issue. He's normalizing the Orange Monster (not the first time, either). He is not helping.

[NastyRiffraff]

405. China IS sincere about it

since it's in their interest. Dump isn't sincere, about anything. You'd think Sanders would know that by now.

[Demsrule86]

268. Really? You see many of us here think that criticsm should be directed at Trump

and Republicans not Pres. Obama and the Democratic Party. What is essentially happening is voters are being told that the Democratic Party is not 'good' enough...terrible message in any year, but suicidal when we need to fight Trump. Has Sen. Sanders considered that a second term for Trump will destroy progressive policy accrued over many years and cause the deaths of many Americans? Resist...fight Trump...not Democrats.

[Demsrule86]

331. You can if you think it is helpful (not) as for me, I will not. We lost to Trump in the electoral

college for a number of reasons...I would put Comey and the Russia right up there...but if you tell me we lost because of 'ties to Wall Street', I will bust out laughing...it just isn't true. We won the popular vote and barely lost the electoral college...what 50,000 votes in three or four states? Sorry...if you tear the party to pieces, you will only help the GOP win in 18 and Trump in 20...I want no part of that. I do think based on recent polls and some twitter feeds that Democrats are waking up...and will ignore Sen. Sander's apparent dislike of the Democratic Party and his ill chosen words. No matter how much some wish it...I doubt he will run again. I doubt he could win a presidential primary for 2020. New leaders will emerge.

[Demsrule86]

421. I really don't believe that...and it seems to me that

the election was stolen and that some who believed they were being thrown under the bus were really being manipulated by Putin trolls into believing that false meme. We had the most progressive/liberal platform ever.

[Demsrule86]

453. That is completely untrue...and I suspect your motives in saying this...also

the primary is over...time to kick the crap out of Trump and the Republicans...lend a hand or not...your choice.

[melman]

236. That's exactly what it is

Pathetic, isn't it?

[Cha]

263. What's "pathetic" is BS insulting the Democratic Party

and Normalizing trump.

Link to tweet

he's Divisive and Wrong

[fleabiscuit]

469. I bet BS really had some strong statements against that strike.

[fleabiscuit]

470. Well now, ain't that a fine how-do-you-do. lol

[Cha]

471. lol..

[lapucelle]

374. BS

Is so much easier. I also sometimes call him Sanders or Senator Sanders, but never the name you suggest. BS is so much more concise. I never referred to President Obama as "Barack". It didn't seem fitting.

Every poster is entitled to her own appropriate editorial choices. Your critique is ill-advised.

Mahalo Cha!

[NurseJackie]

472. Great animated gif...

... I'm going to "steal" it for future use (just in case).

Also, just had to compliment you on your firm, polite and measured response to "Name Removed". I can easily imagine what "Name Removed" had to say. People like "Name Removed" are very touchy and thin-skinned and find all sorts of ways to feign being offended. I guess that's the easiest way to distract and deflect when they have no reasonable defense for the type of behavior we're criticizing.

So... thanks for letting me borrow the gif, and nice work on your reply (you and Cha both.)

[lapucelle]

478. Thank you, Nurse Jackie.

Coming from you, that's high praise indeed.

I want everybody to borrow that gif.

[George II]

414. What might that be, pick one:

Bernie Sanders
Bernard Sanders
Senator Sanders
Senator Bernie Sanders
Senator Bernard Sanders
Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
Senator Bernard Sanders (I-VT)
Chairman of Senate Outreach Sanders

or suggest your own.

As a (ahem) newcomer, you have to realize that many DUers refer to politicians by acronyms or their initials:

HRC
BS
EW
POTUS
BHO
FLOTUS

etc.

That's the way its done around here. You should know that.

[George II]

418. That has been the reference to Sanders since more than a year ago around here. No one complained.

[George II]

424. Well, since you've only been around for seven hours, there a lot you may have never seen........

..........unless............?

[NurseJackie]

473. :-)

&quot ahem)" ... you crack me up

Based on the editing and placeholders I'm seeing, it appears that you were correct in your assessment of the situation.

[Akamai]

84. cartoonist--absolutely Keerect! I think the major leaders of the party, including Schumer, Pelosi,

Sharrod Brown, the great goddess Elizabeth Warren, the great senators from Oregon, including Jeff Merkley, etc., ALL support Bernie's issues.

I don't know what actually motivates the Bernie-haters, but some of them may well be trolls, dividers, etc.

[Cha]

136. Quit trying to Deflect the Pushback on BS by calling us

"trolls" "dividers"..

[Cha]

365. Too bad you can't handle anyone calling out BS on his own

words. And, typical.. all you have are insults, too.

You really need to stop whining about others caring about BS being so divisive.

[George II]

367. Hmmm...

"always stalking" - personal attack

"start up a bonfire for your petty friends" - personal attack

"cabal of anti-Bernie haters" - personal attack

[Demsrule86]

271. It is not the issues...I would say most here support such ideas...it is the criticism..which is

demoralizing and could hurt the resistance an our chances in the coming elections.

[NurseJackie]

274. That's a very broad-brush attack when you say "Bernie-hater". Can you explain what this means?

How have you arrived at the conclusion that someone is a "hater"?

If a politician holds a correct position about a particular issue, does that mean that he/she gets a free pass on saying offensive things about the Democratic Party and Democratic candidates?

Shouldn't loyal Democrats be permitted to complain and push back against the negative things that someone says about our party and our party's candidates?

Please explain to me... how does that make someone a "hater"?

When loyal Democrats express a sincerely held belief that someone else would be better-suited in the "outreach" role... how does having an sincere opinion about his performance, or about his suitability in a position, make someone a "hater"?

Where do you draw the line? Are loyal Democrats not permitted to have an opinion? These types of personal attacks (ie: calling names, making accusations) aren't really a compelling argument.

When people resort to the "hater" accusations, it tells me that they're approaching things from a disadvantaged position of weakness.

[Voltaire2]

325. I'm new here but the vocal Sanders haters here

make this place quite ugly at times. I have no idea what they are trying to achieve but it certainly isn't going to help get more people to vote for democrats.

[Cha]

380. BS insulting our Democratic Party is quite "ugly" and

I don't know what he hopes to achieve.

Don't try to dismiss pushback on BS' own words as "haters" .. it doesn't work.

[JudyM]

459. Welcome to DU, Voltaire2. It is a pity that it's like that now. DU used to be a welcoming site for

the whole party to actually have good discussions, even about things people had passionately opposing viewpoints about.

[Cha]

135. Hillary got 66 Million Votes! comey, the Russian Hacking,

Voter Suppression, the M$M.. the gd 3rd party LIARS got fucking trump Rigged in.

Maybe you should "look in the mirror"?

[chwaliszewski]

155. All of these reasons you listed for why Hillary lost...

do they also apply to why we lost house, senate, and governor seats too?

[Cha]

160. Hillary WON.. these "reasons" are why the asshole got

rigged in.

[chwaliszewski]

168. I think you misunderstood my question...

All of these reasons that you just stated on why Hillary lost to Donald in the general election, are they also the reason why Democrats lost governships, house and senate seats too?

[Cha]

172. Why don't you ask the Russian Hackers? And the gd

gerrymandering?

[chwaliszewski]

180. Your answer is very helpful, Cha.

Thanks for giving all of us a textbook example of implausible deniability.

[Cha]

202. Russian Hackers and gerrymandering are not Textbook

[chwaliszewski]

214. This has been a difficult year for you, hasn't it?

So, what's to stop the hacking and gerrymandering from happening again in the next election? I guess us progressives and Democrats are all doomed...............

[Cha]

222. This has been a difficult year for a lot of people since trump

was rigged in.

Our Democratic Party has been Strong Fighting against them... we don't need BS slinging insults at them from the sidelines.

[chwaliszewski]

224. Which brings me to my unanswered question...

How do we prevent the rigging from happening again?

[fleabiscuit]

474. Democrats gained seats in both chambers in the general election.

Republicans gained 3 state governors. Including VERMONT. Go figure.

[Lil Missy]

303. Bernie didn't "win" to the orange one just because Hillary lost.

And let's be clear- Hillary won the election. It would have been stolen from Bernie too, IF he managed to pull out any semblance of a win.

[Lil Missy]

306. So, did all the Hillary bashing bashing bother

you also? Particularly since she was the ACTUAL NOMINEE selected by the majority of the Democratic Party?

[fleabiscuit]

477. As a man, I really enjoyed the extra effort at man-splaining too.

[NurseJackie]

7. I'm sick of this Democratic Party and Democrats bashing. I'm hopeful that Schumer and Perez...

... will put their heads together and reassess and reevaluate their recent decisions. Hopefully they can come up with something different and make some changes that will allow us to move forward ... unified ... together.

[demosincebirth]

10. He's not a Democrat, never was!

[kentuck]

14. If Bernie were smart...

He would change his registration to the Democratic Party.

He would have to do that out of convenience and necessity.

It would probably be more difficult for him to win higher office if he were not a Democrat. There may not be enough Independents or Democratic Socialists to carry him over the line?

But, the Democratic Party is the route for Bernie to go if he wants to help the Party.

Just my opinion.

[Kaye_NY]

21. Yeah, well,

It seems there is an effort towards Bernie Sanders taking over the Democratic party and turning it into his own image.

The problem is, he had his chance in the primary this year to sell his vision, and he lost.

He can always try again in 2020, but as of now, the Democratic Party did not choose his vision, and as such, he needs to stop pushing it.

[Demsrule86]

273. You are damn right I fear that Sen. Sanders ill chosen words could help Republicans win.

[Demsrule86]

302. No Sen. Sanders doesn't speak for the majority of Democrats and has no reason to demand anyone

"heed" his words. He is not a Democrat. Maybe Sen. Sanders is angry with the Democratic Party; I don't know..hard to understand his negative comments about the Democratic Party and his praise of Trump's incoherent Korea policy otherwise.

[Demsrule86]

326. He doesn't...his memes are Democratic memes...and he will pay a price for criticizing a popular

Democratic President and the party. I would warn Sen. Warren as well...don't do it Senator! I love and respect you...you are better than that.

[babylonsister]

22. I disagree. Let Bernie be Bernie; that's

what I love about him.

[Kaye_NY]

50. Politics is not love of a man

It's fighting for what you believe in.

[Akamai]

87. arguments why he should remain an independent--one of them is so he can appeal to

independent voters, and even to Republican voters who are so brainwashed they will never vote for a Democrat again.

Of course many of the people who voted for Bernie in the states with open primaries were not Democrats but were first-time voters, independents, and even Republicans.

Bernie has been able to work change over the years in Congress reaching over party lines. The Republicans have so poisoned the well that they are told that they cannot talk to anyone whose Democratic, but Bernie,, is an independent, can suggest things to them. Angus King of Maine is another such person, although he has not been in the Congress as long as Bernie.

At any rate, there are real arguments to be made for his keeping his Independent Label, even as he is in so many ways is far more progressive than any other senator in the United States Senate.

[murielm99]

132. I have not seen Bernie working any change over the years.

He has never shepherded a bill through Congress, from start to finish, in all his years there. He is not known for compromising.

I would like you to point to any of his accomplishments. I see next to nothing.

[Demsrule86]

275. Sen. Sanders will not run again.

Let's be honest here. He will be 80 in 2020. Also, a divided Democratic Party will not only hurt Democrats but Sen. Sander's himself. He would never win a 2020 election primary.

[Demsrule86]

344. Sen. Sanders doesn't appeal to independents in my opinion...he creates them

with some of his ill-chosen words. I would rather we created Democrats, and as good as Sen. Sander's may be on policy...he is not good for the Democratic Party...and if he doesn't wan to join...his choice...than he should not speak about a party which he doesn't belong to in such a negative way.

[The Mouth]

86. My question is

Since yes, Hillary won the primary,

Did she win on issues, or because she had been carefully laying the groundwork for 20 years.

She had not just "superdelegates" but hundreds or thousands of favors owed and supporters in position. There was little doubt she would win the nomination. But on just the issues, not 'electability', or all the work she'd done for Democrats for 30 years or the organization she had built, where was our strength, and how did we go wrong? Secretary Clinton did a lot of hard work many years before 2016,work that Bernie simply didn't do- stumping for candidates nationwide, paying dues., NO argument.... but on JUST the issues, as if no one had heard of either of them before 2016?

Bernie had one major theme and I think he was, and is, right about i:
Economic inequality is the single most important issue; more important than race, than gender, than borders or religion. For those who agree it is an energizing issue. Not that race or gender are unimportant, but for many of us FIRST comes economics. everything else competes for second place. I admit this is divisive and antagonizes those who see things first and foremost through the prism of race or gender. But I also firmly believe that when economic inequality is addressed that the other issues become vastly more tractable.

The Democratic party would do well to strongly consider this issue and where it prioritizes it relative to other themes. I have the 'white privilege' of being able to not give a damn about, or even think much about, gender or race; for others race may well be the prism though which they see all problems and solutions. To stop Trump we need to consider all voices.

[radical noodle]

117. You cannot have economic equality

unless you solve racial and gender issues. Without that, you just have economic equality for white men.

[Demsrule86]

277. It became clear when anti-choice candidates with terrible voting records were endorsed...

and yes I know some Democrats whom I deeply respect and like also endorsed these candidates. I have called everyone's office.

[Demsrule86]

291. No...this not a 'single box' issue; this is a vital issue for women and those who love them and

support them. Social justice issues are not wedge issues!

"Once you get off of the social issues — abortion, gay rights, guns — and into the economic issues," he says, "there is a lot more agreement than the pundits understand."......... Sen. Sanders

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/weekend-with-bernie-sanders-20150709

[progressoid]

462. Schumer, "we need the best candidate. We can't insist that every democrat check off 18 different..."

http://commentsfromleftfield.com/media/schumer.mp3

Chuck Schumer:

"So I called up Governor...our number one target is Rick Santorum...let him go back to wherever he lives, Maryland, you know you heard about it, he is Pennsylvania but he tried to get exempt from the school tax there cause he lives in Maryland even though he is a registered citizen of Pennsylvania. In any case I called up the Governor of Pennsylvania, Governor Rendell, I said who is the best candidate to beat Santorum. He said there is only one person who could beat him but, A he won't run, and B you wouldn't want him to run. I said, why wouldn't we want him to run? He said he's pro-life. He's a deeply religious Catholic man: Bob Casey.

"I said, those days are over Ed. Yes I'm pro-choice, but we need the best candidate. We can't insist that every democrat check off 18 different issues before they get (unintelligible) we could do that, we can't anymore. And so, we persuaded, Harry using his very...Harry has amazing insights into people...and we together persuaded Bob Casey to run.

[The Mouth]

498. Respectfully,

I am *NOT* saying that it isn't vital for Women,, POC and others.

I am saying that *one* perspective is the exact opposite of one reply: IOW, until you have a primary emphasis on economic equality, you won't have any advancement for women, and POC. Same goal, but the followers of Sanders, as opposed to rank and file Democrats seem to believe that economic equality (or, rather, a strong commitment towards increasing it) is a prerequisite for advancement of women and POC; others say that an emphasis on eliminating and compensating for traditional structural barriers that have impinged women and POC will lead to more economic equality.l

[womanofthehills]

99. I love Bernie too - the energy he has to keep fighting the fight is amazing.

Go Bernie!!!

[Demsrule86]

293. Such energy could be put to a better use ...fighting Republicans and Trump.

I want people to realize that the Democratic party is worthy of your time and your vote.

[LexVegas]

17. Which Democrat is he attacking now? nt

[aikoaiko]

20. He's just saying the things many Democrats and Democratic voting indie voters are thinking.

He doesn't speak for all Democratic voters, but he does for a sizable minority.

[sheshe2]

49. I am a minority.

I am a woman and we are sizable. He needs to speak for us. I feel left behind.

Our voice MUST BE HEARD.



We brought you into this world. Hear us.

[Akamai]

112. are you concerned about the following issues?

Income And Wealth Inequality,
Making College Tuition Free And Debt-Free,
Getting Big Money Out Of Politics And Restoring Democracy,
Creating Decent Paying Jobs,
A Living Wage,
Combating Climate Changes In The Planet,
A Fair And Humane Immigration Policy,
Racial Justice,
Fighting For Affordable Housing,
Fighting For Women's Rights,
Working To Create An Aids And HIV-Free Generation,
Fighting For LGBT And Quality,
Empowering Tribal Nations,
Caring For Veterans,
Medicare For All,
Strengthen And Expand Social Security,
Fighting To Lower Prescription Drug Prices,
Fighting For Disability Rights,
Etc.

If so, then you are with Bernie for the most part.

[Ninsianna]

159. I certainly am.

This is why I find some of Bernie's comments in the past week to be so concerning. Fighting for women's rights doesn't happen when we're not rigid on the support of choice, and this affects all the other things like income and welath equality, etc.

If he's willing to compromise on basic human rights and endorses a candidate against these, including preventing insurance from covering women's reproductive care, and wants us to embrace Trump voters who are the very antithesis of racial justice, then I need Bernie to stop insulting Democrats, opining on speaking fees, and get on board with the party he's refusing to join.

If he's going to be with us, then support us, and not just "for the most part", get all in. Single payer, a living wage, not some rigid number that's meaningless almost immediately, etc.

[Demsrule86]

295. Is he? I think Sen Sanders creates those thoughts by his critique of the Democratic Party.

[aikoaiko]

383. Yes, because both are true

I think you're right that Sanders is providing the words and ideas to some of the disaffected who were silent because they bought into the idea such ideas could never get anywhere. I could probably put myself in that category. I had become resigned to the idea that the Democratic party status quo was the best that I could expect. Seeing the rise of popularity of Sanders' and Warren's ideas tapped into something deep for me. Without them, someone like me was becoming increasingly willing to walk away from the party.

As something awoke in me, I realized that they have always been some who have been thinking the same thoughts from the same critiques but haven't had the national platform or microphone to voice them.

[Demsrule86]

425. Right...of course why the Democratic Party is the worst...(sarcasm).

I can't imagine how we lived through Pres. Obama saving the economy and giving us health care...how could he? And what could be worse....I mean is their anyone else who could be worse than Democrats for (fill in the blank) more sarcasm. Wait ...we have Trump now...nope. Your argument falls flat. No sarcasm.

[aikoaiko]

458. Your reply is exactly why so many left leaning people inside and outside the party like Bernie.

I appreciate many of the wonderful things President Obama accomplished and tried to accomplish. I'm proud that I voted for him president. I hear Bernie did, too.

I appreciate many of the wonderful things Hillary Clinton would have achieved as President and voted for her for President. I hear Bernie did, too.

But still, one can want change and criticize bluntly.

[JudyM]

463. Me too, it has been stunning to see the huge spontaneous embrace of what we view as a sorely

needed shift/refinement of party priorities.

Our leaders sleepwalked into spending far too much energy on currying favor with big ticket donors, even while talking good Dem principles. That seeped itself into becoming the party's status quo.

Sanders pointed out the stark contrast between operating that way and instead really driving directly toward those core principles, instead of pissing around within the rethugs' mental constraints on us. Such as Reid clearly did.

Schumer's wisdom is in both recognizing the fundamental correctness/integrity of Sanders' Dem version, and also in recognizing that we can appeal to many more voters if we focus on driving toward those core values, which are a starker departure from what rethugs drive toward. Sanders version launches us simultaneously forward to where we can have easier wins and back to our core "support each other and the planet" values, even if at the expense of corporate donors.

Whether the vision can become fully manifested, I'm not dreamy eyed, but having more clear core-values focus - to the exclusion of large institutional donors who want favors such as less regulation - is vitally important, IMO.

[Quixote1818]

23. Hillary was given a chance to sell her ideas in 2008 and lost then later won

what is your point? This is up to the public to decide and so far the majority of the public seems to like what he is saying, however I don't know that he is a leading voice of the Democratic party because he is more of a maverick. He wants to be able to call the shots the way he sees them. If you don't agree then fine but he is a leading voice regardless of whether you like it or not because he dam near beat Hillary coming from complete obscurity.

[LexVegas]

24. No..he didnt "dam" near beat Hillary. nt

[NurseJackie]

27. Hoo boy! Good one!

[Kaye_NY]

34. He lost the primary in April,

and then refused to leave.

And that would have been fine, since primaries are healthy, but he spent April through June trashing the party that he was running with and handed out soundbites to Donald Trump like candy.

Then he made a big stink at the convention.

As the saying goes, "with friends like that..."

[Quixote1818]

133. I will let Mark Shields respond to this

https://www.creators.com/read/mark-shields/05/16/bernie-sanders-deserves-space-and-respect

[Cha]

36. No he didn't.. that's rubbish.

[GulfCoast66]

43. Obscurity? Give me a break

He is what sums up the word establishment. Been a paid politician for 30 plus years. Did what he needed to do to keep earning a 'dam' good paycheck which he had never found a way to earn before becoming an establishment politician. And he did not 'dam' near beat Hillary. He got his clock cleaned.

And you claim that the majority of the public likes what he says. Not only do a majority of Americans reject him, a majority of Democrats rejected him.

Have a nice evening.

[NurseJackie]

52. That covers it. (Thank you!)

[Quixote1818]

114. I voted for Hillary but the fact is Sanders is currently a lot more popular than she is

not sure where you are getting your information that suggests he isn't resonating because he is big time: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-bernie-sanders-is-most-popular-u-s-politician/ Hell, he even wins DU polls all the time even with all the vitriol from abut 25 people here. Politics is very much about name recognition and in the last election Sanders came in with a huge disadvantage with perhaps 1% of the population knowing who he was. Had he not had a good message he would not have even been competitive in any states against a powerhouse like Clinton. He would not have that disadvantage now. I think Elizabeth Warren who had a bit more recognition than he had and was much more in line with Sanders would have beat Hillary had she run. To be honest I don't know anyone personally who preferred Hillary over Warren.

It can take decades for a politician to win the nomination after losing several times. Look at Bob Dole, look at John McCain, look at Hillary etc. etc. Many of those politicians had minuscule numbers there first run. Sanders and Obama were rare phenomenons coming out of nowhere to national prominence there first try in a national election.

We ran one of the most disliked politicians ever against the other most disliked politician: http://fortune.com/2016/07/06/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-2/

[Demsrule86]

296. Neither Sec. Clinton nor Sen. Sanders will run in 2020...so it doesn't matter who is more popular.

What matters is that we elect a Democrat. And I believe Sen. Sanders comments are not helpful in that endeavor.

[George II]

480. That's one of those skewed polls which included only a small list of cherry-picked politician.

We don't know how he stacks up against many Democratic politicians because they weren't included among the choices.

It's like asking what's your favorite dessert among these choices:

Mashed Potatoes
Eggplant
Asparagus
Parsnips

One of those four would come out being the "most popular", but the choices don't include ice cream or chocolate cake.

[lunamagica]

71. Oh, please...he never came even close.

[Cha]

139. Hillary Got 66 MILLON VOTES.. comey, the Russian Hacking,

Voter Suppression, the M$M.. the gd 3rd party LIARS got fucking trump Rigged in.

[Quixote1818]

145. Obama had almost 70 million against a much, much stronger candidate

I agree with you that those things had an impact but a more progressive woman not tied to Wall Street would have trounced Trump by bigger numbers than Obama beat McCain by because Trump was the weakest candidate perhaps in the history of the US. Almost anyone should have beat him.

[Cha]

151. So I just gave you the fucking reasons why.

[Quixote1818]

179. I think she would have won the Electoral College by a hair

had the FBI thing not occurred but getting to 70 million votes would have been difficult for her because her favor-ability was in the tank for a long time. Against a solid Republican candidate she probably would have lost. Perhaps Sanders would have as well.

[fleabiscuit]

495. Non Sequitur. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

276. How the hell does +4M votes equal "dam near beat Hillary"? BS wasn't even competitive in the South.

And CA was where he was supposed to make his last grandstand, and he got routed. So, let's not engage in revisionist history, that's what Donald Trump does.

[lapucelle]

361. The public did decide.

Democrats chose Hillary.

If Sanders emerged from "complete obscurity" after having spent 25 years in Congress, that doesn't speak well for his efficacy, advocacy, or record.

He's welcome to call the shots as he sees them; BS should expect criticism when he calls them is ways antithetical to Democratic party principles. I don't like his stance on guns and I don't like that he sees reproductive autonomy as a secondary issue that distracts from more important questions.

If effective outreach for the Senate Democratic Caucus is at cross purposes with Sanders desire to preserve his personal brand as a maverick, he should resign his leadership post.

[Kaye_NY]

38. Honestly?

It's this strange worship that is so bizarre.

[womanofthehills]

103. I find black and white thinking so bizarre

[Cha]

40. Can BS stop bashing our well respected Democratic President?

Link to tweet

[Cha]

75. Quit trying to Deflect.. this is the here and now. BS

insulted our Well Respected Democratic President and so many people are pushing back.. even his fans.

BS lost the Rude Pundit, too.

[Akamai]

115. I don't know if I insulted Obama, but I do have concerns about the $400,000 he took from the banks

for his presentation.

To say that someone has concerns, criticisms, does not mean that someone has "insulted our Well Respected Democratic President".This my far, far better half criticizes me, I do not think she's insulting me, but believe she was giving me good feedback that may improve my behavior.

[Cha]

157. BS Insulted President Obama

Link to tweet

While normalizing trump..

Sanders: Trump on right track with North Korea

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/bernie-sanders-north-korea-donald-trump-cnntv/

[Cha]

330. BS is always Insulting the Democratic Party and now President

Obama.. while normalizing trump.

[Cha]

338. In 2 weeks Bernie's said Ossoff isn't progressive, criticized Obama's paycheck,

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Cha]

350. Yeah yeah you're trying to push BS on us.. Overkill.. it's

not working.

[KTM]

356. Overkill ??? LOL !!

You have posted essentially the same cut/paste thing, with the same easily dispelled nonsense SEVENTY FIVE TIMES in this thread alone !! Oh geez, and people posting to refute your nonsense are the ones overdoing it?? Really ?? Hahahahaha!

[Cha]

366. Yes, Overkill.. that guy was birddoggin me and now

he's gone.

I was refuting their nonsense.. Too bad so sad you don't like it.

[Cha]

387. Yes, I have posted a lot to DIFFERENT People so I can

refute what they say. I really don't like BS' Divisive rhetoric and I will continue to call him out whenever he does it. This is a Political Message Board.. that's what we do.

So if all you have are insults that means you have nothing to defend his divisive insults thrown @ President Obama and the Democratic Party.

[lapucelle]

384. "Giving good feedback that may improve behavior"?

That sounds infantalizing. I'm sure that the two-term former president will take your "good feedback" under advisement.

In addition, "the $400,000 he took from the banks" is an interesting framing of accepting a fee for speaking at an Innovations in Health Care conference sponsored by Cantor Fitzgerald.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor_Fitzgerald

[Cha]

321. BS insults our Well Respected President.. he's divisive and wrong..

[Cha]

332. BS is Divisive and Wrong..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Cha]

340. BS needs to stop being so divisive.. he's not going to get anything accomplished

but being in front of a damn mic.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[GulfCoast66]

46. Shouldn't that be a bird?

[Cha]

65. lol

[sheshe2]

53. Your post does not help.

[sheshe2]

76. lol lol lol lol

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

60. No

Not unless he stops the divisive rhetoric. Honestly I don't get the cult of Bernie Sanders. I'm more into ideas than people.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

109. Hate threads?

So you think Sanders should not be criticized even if such is legit? I'd call that a cult.

[Akamai]

359. Yup! His crowds are huge, his issues of maximal importance to us all --

but some people just cannot resist trying to tear him down.

Seems that there are many "Bernie-haters" out there and, because he still labels himself an "Independent", these people get to misrepresent his views with impunity.

[Ninsianna]

411. Can we stop this type of testimony?

This is indistinguishable from the things that the Trump supporters were saying all over the TV yesterday.

Criticizing a politician over what he says is something that we all should be doing, its not hate, and it doesn't matter how big his crowd sizes are, when he's betraying issues that are of maximal importance to those of us who are not white males, some people will support supposed populist leaders and speak reverently about his crowd sizes and with almost religious fervor. These people don't seem to understand that he's being criticized for what he's saying, what he doubles down on and what he's on the record/video saying.

These people must not be allowed to attack anyone speaking the truth or voicing their opinions with impunity. It's not a war, and we're not the enemy. We have eyes, ears and and the ability to understand words in context, and we also have the right to legitimately criticize his actual words without being attacked.

[Akamai]

496. I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to, your pronouns don't have names attached to them.

But to repeat an earlier point I made, Bernie says that he considers something "distasteful", his words do not rise the level of being called an insult, I think. The average voter,, I think, would be bothered by our leading politicians taking a very large amount of money from Wall Street bankers, and I think that the post-election polls show this to be the case.

By the way, I leave that perhaps Bernie is camping down his words somewhat. Through three days ago he called Obama's taking money from the bankers "distasteful" and now he terms it "unfortunate." It seems that his words to our evolving.

[Akamai]

98. Bernie's issues are the following -- does anyone disagree with anyone of these?

Income and wealth inequality, making college tuition free and debt-free, getting big money out of politics and restoring democracy, creating decent paying jobs, a living wage, combating climate changes in the planet, a fair and humane immigration policy, racial justice, fighting for affordable housing, fighting for women's rights, working to create an AIDS and HIV-free generation, fighting for LGBT and quality, empowering tribal nations, caring for veterans, Medicare for all, strengthen and expand Social Security, fighting to lower prescription drug prices, fighting for disability rights, etc.

Does any freaking Democrat disagree with any of these?

Not only do Democrats agree with the above, but so do a hell of a lot of people who identify themselves as being independent, libertarian, and also as Republican.

[Ninsianna]

116. These were also Hillary's issues and the Democratic party's issues

so why are so many insisting that these are somehow unique to Bernie? Most of us would like Single payer though, since medicare for all sounds like a nice slogan but is not single payer.

[philly_bob]

31. Oh boy, another DU Bernie-bashing thread. /nt

[Kaye_NY]

42. *cringe*

[Akamai]

105. I know -- what a freaking surprise. Right? Anyone at all opposed to the following issues?

If anyone thinks these these issues have no importance at all, then I don't know what else to say. These are his issues from the past, but continued to abuse issues into the future, and Bernie will not change.

And his issues are:
Income And Wealth Inequality,
Making College Tuition Free And Debt-Free,
Getting Big Money Out Of Politics And Restoring Democracy,
Creating Decent Paying Jobs,
A Living Wage,
Combating Climate Changes In The Planet,
A Fair And Humane Immigration Policy,
Racial Justice,
Fighting For Affordable Housing,
Fighting For Women's Rights,
Working To Create An Aids And HIV-Free Generation,
Fighting For LGBT And Quality,
Empowering Tribal Nations,
Caring For Veterans,
Medicare For All,
Strengthen And Expand Social Security,
Fighting To Lower Prescription Drug Prices,
Fighting For Disability Rights,
Etc.

[juxtaposed]

37. he's only pollarding to neo-democratics

[Cha]

56. BS "polarized" everyone when he stepped into

it with his latest attack on President Obama.

Link to tweet

Many of his fans were not impressed.

[BainsBane]

148. That contemptous comment about "neo-Democrats" is reflective of that polarization

but I don't think we can fault Bernie for all of it. Those people would not be making those sorts of dismissive comments if they didn't truly believe the majority of Americans were inferior to themselves. Bernie provides an opportunity for them to mobilize against the people--who are in fact the majority-- they have wanted to exclude from the party and the body politic for a long time.

[BainsBane]

134. It's truly is horrible that inferior "neo-democratics" have a say in the party

He's only divisive to the "neo-Democratics," the people so intrinsically inferior their lives and votes don't matter.

[George II]

364. "neo-democratics"? Really?

[Gothmog]

451. I strongly disagree with your analysis and conclusions

I have been a long time member of the Democratic Party and was a delegate to the national convention. I strongly disagree with your claim

[R B Garr]

456. Ah, the divisive and meaningless "neo-Democrats" attack. All that means is a

tug of war between those who actually want to win elections and those who want to whine about how imperfect everyone else is. No thanks. I'll take winning elections every time. Sitting on the sidelines talking about how perfect you are is really overrated.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

39. Please give me one example of how he

is polarizing..............

[LexVegas]

41. ...

[Cha]

48. LOL..

Link to tweet

[NurseJackie]

54. Ha!! :-D

[sheshe2]

55. Read DU.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028992415

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

59. I just watched the video where he said that.

Maybe it's because I'm old or something. That was hardly 'polarizing'. His remarks were stated in a matter of fact way, he complimented President Obama and merely said he didn't think the President should accept money from Wall Street. I have voted Democratic since 1972, I believe I know when someone is divisive and polarizing. Bernie Sanders ain't it..............

[sheshe2]

62. He

Sen. Bernie Sanders believes former President Barack Obama's plan to receive $400,000 for speaking at a September Wall Street health conference is "distasteful," The Vermont Independent reported Friday.
Speaking with CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, Sanders labeled the transaction "not a good idea" and said he was "sorry President Obama made that choice."
"I just think it does not look good," Sanders said. "I just think it is distasteful -- not a good idea that he did that."

Distastful. EOM

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

395. yes I know, I watched the clip.

In my opinion, many here are making a mountain out of a molehill. It's Bernie stating his opinion. Do people believe he's so influential a 2 minute video clip of his remarks can destroy the Democratic Party? Criticism is a part of everyday life and in politics it comes with the territory. Really everyone, it's not a big deal. I would argue we (Dems, the left, Progressives etc) have bigger fish to fry..............

[Cha]

67. That's not all he did.. he's all over the mics insulting President Obama..

Link to tweet

he really stepped into it.. even some of his fans are not impressed.

he lost the Rude Pundit, too..

[unc70]

70. I agree with you

The Bernie bashing is way out of proportion to what Sanders actually said in various interviews. This is mostly manufactured outrage here at DU and elsewhere. It is predictably pushed by relatively new DU members and supported reliably by the same small group who have been outraged about most everything "Bernie" over the last 18 months.

[chwaliszewski]

165. 100% in agreement

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

397. You know what they say?

Great minds think alike!

[melman]

81. You are 100% right

Any rational person can see that.


But there are some whose rage is so all-consuming, and their need to direct it towards this one person so.. extreme, that rational is the last thing they could be called.

[Paka]

252. It's threads like this that are polarizing.

[NurseJackie]

257. Do not expect LOYAL Democrats to remain silent at the continued insults and abuse.

We wouldn't accept those things if they were being spoken by Donald Trump or Ted Cruz... why should ANYONE get a "free pass" to attack Democrats?

[betsuni]

261. Why does it seem that everyone else is allowed to be "passionate" (which all too often

means doing the insulting and abuse) except loyal Democrats?

[snort]

61. He's a great choice.

[Cha]

169. All BS does is Insult the Democratic Party.. he's a Poor Choice..

While Normalizing trump and Insulting our Well Respected Democratic President..

Sanders: Trump on right track with North Korea

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/bernie-sanders-north-korea-donald-trump-cnntv/

Link to tweet

[smirkymonkey]

217. +1000

I did like Bernie, but he is seriously testing my goodwill. I'm not happy with him lately.

[napi21]

64. So, get our favorite Dem, Rep. Sen, or other activist to step up to the public area and replace him!

AFIK, nobod brbed Bernie to make his public appearances, he's doing it on his own to motivate people to vote for Democrats. I haven't even seen our new DNC Director except when he joined Bernie. Wh aren't an other Dems stepping up to be our voice? I'm happy with Bernie as opposed to NOBODY!!!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

68. WTF?

"Wh aren't an other Dems stepping up to be our voice?" That's a rather ill informed statement.

Did you see Elizabeth Warren on Bill Maher last night?

[Ninsianna]

126. You mean the joint unity tour that Perez asked Bernie to go on with him?

Also, isn't Bernie on a book tour?

There are plenty of Democrats stepping up, but all the time seems to have been devoted to Bernie's multiple appearances. I hope it's boosting his sales, because the things he's saying have been pissing off Democrats, women and minorities he keeps pushing aside.

People are posting all over social media about how NOT happy they are with Bernie and his soft position on their human rights. He dissed the Democrat in the Georgia House race and embraced a right wing guy running for Omaha mayor.

[Arazi]

244. Bernie's book tour ended December 2, six months ago

https://www.google.com/amp/heavy.com/news/2016/11/where-is-bernie-sanders-speaking-next-book-tour-rally-event-speech-schedule-our-revolution/amp/

His documented popularity belies your post on every level. Aside from a small embittered remnant, the Dem leadership understands they need Bernie's supporters to win going forward. Indies are the largest voting block now. Without them, we lose.

Get used to it

[Ninsianna]

406. Book tours don't normally happen over two weeks.

So, this is an event on January 15th, 2017, a month and a half after December 2nd.

https://www.acappellabooks.com/pages/events/104/sold-out-senator-bernie-sanders-is-coming-to

Another book tour stop, February 21, 2017, a month and a half after that.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-bernie-sanders-event-20170219-story.html

The simple facts belie your post on every level. His documented popularity is among his own constituents, his words are documented to have irritated masses of people who DO NOT LIKE what he did.

The "small embittered remnant" is the one that keeps insisting that things are true because they fondly believe them, while ignoring all evidence to the contrary, the Dem leadership understands that they need the people Bernie keeps offending with his attacks on the party's core principles and the people that make up the backbone.

Women and minorities are the largest voting block, they're also the people that Bernie's antics have been offending, angering and irritating. Without us, the Dems don't exist. We're the ones doing all the work, and Bernie and the small group who feel the need to attack Democrats when we object to the things he keeps saying that endanger our lives, our human rights and our families are going to have to wake up and figure out that we're not going to sit down and shut up, and we will not "get used to" being denigrating, abused, lied to and shoved out of the way by people who don't seem to understand what we are to this party they just discovered 5 minutes ago.

Without us, Dems don't exist. Get used to that.

[snort]

484. Last paragraph is garbage.

[David__77]

66. I don't think Sanders is running to be Democratic leader.

I don't agree with Sanders on everything. I am glad that I voted for him.

If there were 100 of him in the US Senate, it would be good for the country.

[redstateblues]

69. Bernie craves attention. Positive or negative it doesn't matter.

[Tarheel_Dem]

283. Ugh. That sounds a lot like the current occupant of the WH, and that concerns me. n/t

[stevenleser]

80. Agreed. It was fine to give him a chance but he couldn't rise to the occasion

He's not capable of leading without engaging in demagoguery

[VoicesAcrossAmerica]

82. Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in America

The most popular party registration right now is DTS, Decline to State, no-party, Independent, etc. Bernie didn't create this movement. He didn't convince people to leave the Democratic Party. This trend has been happening for quite awhile.

Bernie is the most popular politician in the country.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/04/bernie-sanders-most-popular-politician-country-poll-says

He isn't hurting Democrats. What will hurt our party is if we disavow him.

[stevenleser]

91. George W Bush once had 90% popularity too, that means nothing. There is a reason

that argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy.

[Cha]

118. Besides.. BS is out there normalizing trump and insulting

our Well Respected Democratic President.. BS even lost the Rude Pundit on that..

Sanders: Trump on right track with North Korea

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/bernie-sanders-north-korea-donald-trump-cnntv/

Link to tweet

[pnwmom]

96. No, that poll doesn't say that. It says that he is the most popular of the politicians

they included in the poll, which asked about only three Democrats and Bernie (besides Republicans).

Four. It doesn't say anything about politicians who weren't included in the poll.

[Cha]

113. LOL! He insults President Obama and even his fans

are pushing back.. maybe he shouldn't have knee jerked so damn fast.. he even lost the Rude Pundit.

Sanders: Trump on right track with North Korea

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/bernie-sanders-north-korea-donald-trump-cnntv/

While normalizing trump.

Link to tweet

[Akamai]

119. Insults? Criticism and insults are not the same. Open your dictionary and you can find those words

are different.

Somehow, and for some reason, too many people are interpreting Bernie's criticisms of Obama (for taking the $400,000 from bankers) as an insult.

I wonder how people could be so quick to confuse the two words?

[Ninsianna]

137. Isn't that kind of what all these people complaining about people "hating on Bernie"

are doing?

Why do the words have different meanings based on who is being criticized? Shouldn't we be able to respectfully criticize all of our political leaders when they make gaffes or say things that we do not like? They're people, they make mistakes, they say dumb things, they do dumb things at times, Bernie said some dumb stuff last week, with the comments about how we shouldn't be "rigid" on choice, and now with the distasteful and unnecessary criticism of Obama. When this is justifiably called out there are people here calling anyone who voices that criticism "Russian Trolls". I don't recall who that was, but it seems that many people are really quick to confuse the two words.

I think they need to look up the word "hypocrisy" and figure out what that means. When the perspective is that when certain people are criticized, it's "hate" and "insults" but the exact same stuff is not when it's directed against anyone else, that's not a valid or defensible standard to take.

[Akamai]

141. So do you believe that Bernie was being critical or insulting?

[Ninsianna]

142. What does the term "distasteful" mean to you?

I find that to be an insulting comment, do you not?

[Akamai]

153. Not insulting but a statement of something I hope

someone wouldn't do.

If your child does something you don't approve of --such as dashing through a store heedless of shoppers -- you may say, "I wouldn't do that because you mighty hurt other people" -- clearly that is not insulting but is instead an appropriate corrective.

[Ninsianna]

167. The dictionary literally defines it as something offensive.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/distasteful

If someone said about your child, "His behavior is distasteful" would your response be to thank them for their insightful criticism?

I think not. This is not appropriate corrective terminology nor does Bernie need to treat Obama as a wayward child in need if his paternalistic discipline.

Bernie needs to stop making such offensive remarks and stating so is not insulting him, but appropriate corrective criticism since he's offending people with his unpleasant and disagreeable statements.

[Akamai]

178. I didn't necessarily say others find that behavior distasteful, but that I do.

Or are you saying I have no right to say that troubles me, and do you not agree that !u words here are not insulting?

[Ninsianna]

184. I was stating that what Bernie said was an insult, per the definition in the dictionary.

I'm saying that if dictionary definitions are going to be referenced, that when other people express that they're troubled by such insults that they too have the right to say what troubles them, without being attacked.

I believe that words are insulting, no matter who utters them. I'm not sure what "!u" words mean, and it's hard to extrapolate what the typo was referring to in context.

Everyone has the right to express their opinions without being called names or accused of "hate" or of being "trolls", Russian or otherwise.

I think many of the words being used here at those expressing their anger and annoyance of over someone calling President Obama "distasteful" for doing something perfectly normal. It implies something rather insulting, and the word used is in and of itself an insult. It's not a crime for someone to state the obvious.

Where did I suggest any challenge to your rights to say anytying? I'm truly confused as to where you're getting that from.

[Akamai]

192. What actually did Bernie say? What were his words?

I am off to bed. Have an early funeral tomotrow

[chwaliszewski]

194. Do you agree that what Obama is being insulted about by Bernie is acceptable behavior?

I would assume most Democrats have no problem with Obama receiving an excessive speaking fee from Wall Street because Hillary did the same thing for years. There are some of us here, Bernie included, who think it looks 'distasteful'. I don't much care for what Obama is doing and I voted for him both times.

[Ninsianna]

200. I do not believe that anyone insulting the president for taking a speaking fee is

acceptable behavior. I expect these insults from Trump and the Republicans. I agree that is it unacceptable behavior by Bernie.

This is not an "excessive fee" it's how speaking fees work, Hillary wasn't paid "excessively either".

There are more of us who think that attacking the most admired man and woman in the country is something that is distasteful and offensive.

I don't much care for what Bernie is doing here. I especially found it offensive that he and Trump were attacking her on speaking fees when they found out about them due to her released tax returns that neither of them disclosed. If you're going to criticize others for something that isn't unethical or even questionable, then you would need to be open and honest yourself. Trump received speaking fees in greater amounts, Bernie is prohibited by law from accepting speaking fees while he is in office.

I think these cheap soundbites and unthinking attacks are distasteful, divisive and do nothing but hand ammunition to the Republicans while creating a narrative that the Democrats are somehow divided. He needs to stop.

[chwaliszewski]

212. I happen to consider the whole speaking fee thing with Wall St. a bit hypocritical...

as I consider Wall St. fat cats part of the problem with this country and a direct contributor to the income inequality problem.

[Ninsianna]

218. If the issue is anyone having anything to do with wall street is evil

then the only people who get to not be hypocritical are those who will release their financial papers and proving they do not invest in wall street.

Until then, I consider everyone a part of the wall street fat cat and direct contributors to the problem and raging hypocrites.

Those who receive fees for delivering a speech, aren't doing anything to directly contribute to fat cats, doing much. Those who are giving them money are.

Anyone who wishes to not be a hypocrite on this matter, who goes on and on about financial transparency, should have no trouble with this simple step.

I happen to like people who will walk the walk, not just talk the talk. So far, I've only seen one candidate for office who has engaged in this transparency, while her opponents, men who attack her and who love to attack Obama as well, despite his own transparency, should release their records first and then speak. Until then both men are hypocrites, and are part of the problem.

[Cha]

280. Thank you for your post, Ninsianna.. he tried

that with me, too.

BS not only insulted President Obama by calling it "distasteful"..

Link to tweet

[Demsrule86]

300. He is not popular enough to win the presidency. A Democrat can defeat Trump and if Sen. Sanders'

doesn't want to help...fine..but get out of the way, the times they are a changing. New leaders and candidates will emerge.

[YOHABLO]

92. I am a life long Dem and I welcome B.Sanders ideas into OUR party.

For me, it's about what we want for the country. I think who ever our candidate will be in the next general election, it will be Sander's ideas and platform that we'll be voting on. Not personalities. If we want to win elections, we can't run on Republican Lite ideas.

[womanofthehills]

106. I like the way Bernie's ideas took the party more to the left

[Akamai]

120. Yes! He is interested in the following issues, and we should be as well!

Income And Wealth Inequality,
Making College Tuition Free And Debt-Free,
Getting Big Money Out Of Politics And Restoring Democracy,
Creating Decent Paying Jobs,
A Living Wage,
Combating Climate Changes In The Planet,
A Fair And Humane Immigration Policy,
Racial Justice,
Fighting For Affordable Housing,
Fighting For Women's Rights,
Working To Create An Aids And HIV-Free Generation,
Fighting For LGBT And Quality,
Empowering Tribal Nations,
Caring For Veterans,
Medicare For All,
Strengthen And Expand Social Security,
Fighting To Lower Prescription Drug Prices,
Fighting For Disability Rights,
Etc.

Also, in addition to the above issues, he wants to elect progressive candidates wherever he can.

[Ninsianna]

152. But he actually endorsed an extremist candidate who was radical right wing Republican

so, how does endorsing Republican on steroid ideas help us win elections?

His ideas and platform are what have been Democratic ideas and platform for decades, I don't understand the rebranding. We did welcome him into our party, he said he'd stay, and then at the first opportunity he left our party.

[Demsrule86]

341. I would welcome him into our party too...it is a shame he refuses to join our party...bummer.

[Cha]

97. I agree.. His pushing an "aggressively anti-choice"

candidate as a "progressive" and Pro-Choice Candidate, Jon Ossiff in Georgia as Not a Progressive is just one example.. not to mention his 'distasteful" insult to President Obama.

[safeinOhio]

161. Good points on some of his insults about Obama, but

not nearly as bad as some of the ones the Clintons leveled about Obama in 2008. Some things you have to get past.

[Cha]

164. Hillary and President Obama came together for the Good

of the country.

BS is still dividing.. Insulting our Well Respected President and Normalizing trump..

Sanders: Trump on right track with North Korea

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/bernie-sanders-north-korea-donald-trump-cnntv/

Link to tweet

[safeinOhio]

176. For the good of the country and party

I'm ignoring anything Bernie is saying to focus on the real enemy of the left. trump.

[Demsrule86]

343. They all do it? Sorry What Sec. Clinton may or may not have said has nothing to do with

Sen. Sander's criticism of a popular Democratic president.

[safeinOhio]

357. "The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails,

Best quote from the Primaries by anyone. To judge someone, we must look at the whole picture.

[Demsrule86]

429. I won't discuss the primary.

so...but I disagree.

[Akamai]

121. I sure think that some of the anti-Bernie people here are trolls of some sort, because we

should be interested in the following messages that Bernie has promoted time and time and time again.

And these include:

Income And Wealth Inequality,
Making College Tuition Free And Debt-Free,
Getting Big Money Out Of Politics And Restoring Democracy,
Creating Decent Paying Jobs,
A Living Wage,
Combating Climate Changes In The Planet,
A Fair And Humane Immigration Policy,
Racial Justice,
Fighting For Affordable Housing,
Fighting For Women's Rights,
Working To Create An Aids And HIV-Free Generation,
Fighting For LGBT And Quality,
Empowering Tribal Nations,
Caring For Veterans,
Medicare For All,
Strengthen And Expand Social Security,
Fighting To Lower Prescription Drug Prices,
Fighting For Disability Rights,
Etc.

Who does not agree with the issues above? if any people disagree with the above messages, then they belong in another party, perhaps another country.

[Quixote1818]

140. Great post! nt

[Akamai]

143. Thank you sir! Clearly you are very insightful! :)

[Quixote1818]

163. What seems to be forgotten here is that both the Dem and Republican establishments are compromised

and that is Bernie's primary focus. To shine a light on the ties to Wall Street etc. Yes the Democratic party is 100 times better than the Republican party and Hillary was easily the better choice compared to Trump but it's a deeper problem than that. When Reagan dismantled the Unions Democrats thought they had no place to go for money so they had to start courting Wall Street and the country hasn't really had a party looking after the middle and lower class since then. Sanders is looking at the big picture which is like walking on a tight rope. He has to balance pointing out that much of the Dem establishment is bought off but not hurt Democratic candidates too much in his should I say, Quixotic quest against those who own the country. If it works out we get a Democratic Party much more like it was when FDR was in power. That is the ultimate goal, to get the Democratic Party back to it's roots. It's a huge balancing act that seems to have upset a few on DU but someone has to fight that fight and he has a following and the respect of the news media. He has to keep fighting it whether people like it or not.

[JudyM]

465. Absolutely, well-said.

[betsuni]

272. Wrong.

[Akamai]

171. Oh -- how about Obama's refusal to let Comey talk about the

Russian ties to trump before the election.

Obama was told that Comey wanted to release the info and he said, No. He was concerned it would look too partisan.

Much as I love Obama, I believe that was a huge, huge mistake.

Also voter suppression, false equivalence, dark money, the belief Hillary was destined to with , the lies of Republicans, etc., led to this debacle.

[JudyM]

466. Yes, yes and yes, all the above. We Dems need to be more fearless. That is what Sanders is leading

us toward. Obama was putting short term party (and perhaps his personal image concerns) concerns before principal when he let McConnell back him into that corner. McConnell knew just how to play him, and it worked like a charm to get the White House. I appreciate Obama, but this was a huge misstep that cost us dearly.

[Akamai]

491. I was just listening to the Ezra Klein podcast with Sen. Elizabeth Warren. great podcast.

In his intro to the show, as Rose said that president Obama and Sen. Warren disagreed about the financial state of the average American, with president Obama indicating that it may not be as bad as people think and Sen. Warren saying that it was worse than many people think. (I'm paraphrasing but I think that sort of captures what Ezra Klein and Sen. Warren said.)

On other hand, Sen. Warren has studied this for many years and holds no delusions about how Republicans can manipulate, distort, and take money away from the middle class, from those who need it, etc.

I do truly think that Obama did quite well with them average American citizen over the last eight years in the face of absolutely undying hatred and obstruction from the Republicans.

however, as I said several times on DemocraticUnderground, I truly, truly regret that Obama did not repeatedly name the differences between Democrats and Republicans. He should have repeatedly and strongly laid the blame on Republicans in Congress, on the Supreme Court of the United States, etc.

Towards the end of his presidency, he said that he wished he had taken more of a different tack on dealing with Congress and he pointed out over the last several months that indeed Congress was obstructing him and had done so for a long time. Why the heck didn't he say this repeatedly, loudly, and a whole lot earlier?

clearly Obama was the best Democratic president we've had in a long, long time. But I do wish he had warned us about the Vandals with taken over our government. The average person does not know how to respond unless that person knows who the miscreants are, and we clearly would've benefited from a Paul Revere-type person, one who could take names and kick butt.

I raise my observations of Pres. Obama at this point (along with my absolute praise for what he has managed to do and would help the country avoid--absolute fiscal disaster, etc.) with the hopes that if national Democratic leaders are in a position of high authority that they will call out the Republicans for the greedy positions they take, for the lies they tell, and for the lack of concern they have for the United States, the average citizen, the needy among us, etc.

[Cha]

230. BS did his share.

[NurseJackie]

260. Astute and true. This cannot be denied. Thank you.

[NurseJackie]

264. I don't understand. Does this mean that ANY criticism of Bernie's attacks on our party...

... is the same as rejecting everything in that list? Frankly, that makes no sense to me. Please explain how one arrives at that conclusion.

[betsuni]

269. It's not anti-Bernie, it's anti-what-Bernie-is-saying-about-Democrats.

If he didn't so often assume the worst case scenario of Democrats but give Trump the benefit of the doubt, he'd be great, everyone would like him. It's what he says out loud. Listen. And it's offensive to call Democrats who post at Democratic Underground who don't like Democrats bashed for no reason trolls. Doesn't even make any sense.

[Demsrule86]

316. Scratch women's rights...because of recent events...but everything listed is a Democratic

issue and has been for years.

[bobGandolf]

110. We do need new, younger leaders, BUT....

not at the expense of Bernie. My god, he is the only Democrat / Independent to consistently speak out against Trumple, and the Republican leadership slash, and burn any safety regulations, all programs for the poor.

[Akamai]

123. my hat is off to you, sir! BobGandolf!

Bernie is interested in issues for the people now, in the future, and always. His issues are the following:
Income And Wealth Inequality,
Making College Tuition Free And Debt-Free,
Getting Big Money Out Of Politics And Restoring Democracy,
Creating Decent Paying Jobs,
A Living Wage,
Combating Climate Changes In The Planet,
A Fair And Humane Immigration Policy,
Racial Justice,
Fighting For Affordable Housing,
Fighting For Women's Rights,
Working To Create An Aids And HIV-Free Generation,
Fighting For LGBT And Quality,
Empowering Tribal Nations,
Caring For Veterans,
Medicare For All,
Strengthen And Expand Social Security,
Fighting To Lower Prescription Drug Prices,
Fighting For Disability Rights,
Etc.

I do not know why people do not agree with these issues, do not agree with his conviction on these matters, etc.

[Cha]

146. NO he's not the only one.. in fact he's trying to Normalize

trump while insulting our Well Respected Democratic President..

Sanders: Trump on right track with North Korea

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/bernie-sanders-north-korea-donald-trump-cnntv/

Link to tweet

[JCanete]

193. I agree, he's not the only one, but no, fucking no, he is not normalizing trump. come on. nt

[Demsrule86]

318. That Korea comment is normalizing Trump and has been used by the right already...who have

also picked up the failing Democratic party meme.

[dweller]

131. oh my !

🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼

[NurseJackie]

258. Great post. Thoughtful and true. (Thank you.)

[unc70]

360. Sanders focused on the platform during that time

He used what leverage he still had to move the official party platform further left. I think nearly all of us support those changes.

[BainsBane]

156. He's a leading voice against the Democratic Party

not for it.

Does he ever say anything good about the party? Seriously? I haven't heard it. Has anyone?

[Cha]

166. Excellent Points!

[C Moon]

158. Thanks for joining DU and not focusing on the REAL issue at hand: TRUMP!

[Cha]

162. While BS insults President Obama and Normalizes trump..

this is a big issue, too.

Sanders: Trump on right track with North Korea

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/bernie-sanders-north-korea-donald-trump-cnntv/

Link to tweet

[C Moon]

174. I dunno: I have seen this topic splitting DU for the past couple months.

There is definitely an attempt to keep the party split. There's a simple "divide and conquer" act at work here.

[Cha]

175. BS is the one who is being divisive by always insulting

the Democratic Party. He always has his face in front of camera. This is PushBack that you are seeing.

We're not shutting up and rolling over.

[Cha]

197. I have never said that he should... he always said

he wouldn't because..

"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/8/15/1409803/-Introducing-Bernie-Sanders-the-Hypocrite

[Cha]

229. Sanders called Obama's corporate speaking fees"distasteful"while failing to call out Trump's family

Link to tweet

[Demsrule86]

309. That is the Democratic message. His message of late has been more along the lines of

"The Democratic Party is a failing model". And let me add that this is a completely a false statement. The Democratic party is not failing . Below are a few of comments found on twitter:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[font color="red" size="4" face="face"]Ah but there is hope! Some folks are beginning to understand that criticizing Democrats and/or the Democratic Party is not helpful [/font]

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[NurseJackie]

483. It's my sincere hope that Perez and Schumer get together and reassess the choices they've made.

That is all.

[Quixote1818]

186. If the Democratic Party cut it's ties with Wall Street

and got back to its FDR roots there wouldn't be anything to criticize. Sanders wouldn't have even had a reason to run and you wouldn't even know his name. He will continue to support the Democratic Party a thousand fold over Republicans but I don't think he is the type of person to conform for the sake of everyone getting along just to kick the can down the road. Everyone knows he is more on the side of Democrats than Republicans but as a life long Democrat I have zero problem with him shining a light on corruption in my party.

[Cha]

206. The Democratic Party is Fighting Strong and Hard against

the Fasicistrumps.. they don't need BS insulting them from the sidelines every time he gets in front of a gd camera.

[Demsrule86]

311. FDR was almost 100 years ago...time to move into the future with

fresh ideas to sold 21st century problems. I admire Roosevelt and believe he saved our economy as did President Obama I might add...but we can't live in the past.

[Cha]

198. BS insulting the Democratic Party and Normalizing

trump helps the repubs.. when are you going to get it?

Sanders: Trump on right track with North Korea

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/bernie-sanders-north-korea-donald-trump-cnntv/

Link to tweet

[Cha]

203. It isn't "goldman sachs" .. BS got it Wrong... many

of his fans turned against him on his Insulting our Well Respected President. he even lost the Rude Pundit.

[Cha]

207. BS is divisive and wrong.

[Demsrule86]

319. Right well now Goldman Sachs has the keys to the White House...not a good outcome.

[Ken Burch]

183. Bernie's strategy wasn't USED by the party in 2016.

We can't gain any votes by rejecting everything Bernie's campaign was about.

[Cha]

204. BS used it.

[Ken Burch]

209. OK. But that's not what the OP said.

The OP said the party used it. It didn't. The fall campaign refused to have anything to do with Bernie's ideas. It essentially pretended that the Sanders campaign never even happened.

Bernie's defeat in the primaries wasn't a rejection of his views on economic issues(while his policies there needed to take more account of historic oppression, they would have been just as good for African-American, Latinx-American, LGBTQ-American and female-American voters as they would have for the working-class whites Bernie was falsely accused of favoring. Bernie lost(and I ACCEPT that he lost and that HRC's nomination was legitlmate) for two reasons:

1) He did an ineffective job(although he did improve on this later) in addressing race, gender and identity issues;

2) In addition to the failings he did have, Bernie was smeared on those issues and his failings were ascribed to the worst possible motivations. It was enough to say he didn't say enough about what the eventual nominee's campaign defined as "social justice" issues-everyone before 2016 included the need to wage war against poverty, it was only in 2016 that that was excluded from the definition-it was NEVER necessary or fair to claim that he didn't care about them or worse, that he actually didn't WANT the votes of anyone but young white men.

There's no reason for the party to dismiss what he said about economic issues-his views on THOSE issues are popular and have majority support in many cases. And there's no good reason for anyone to try to keep us divided into Sanders people OR Hillary/Obama people. Every person of good will from BOTH campaigns should be fully welcome in the Democratic Party now, and none should be treated with suspicion.

It's about us...it's not about any particular past presidential candidates. And it's time to go to dialog on the social justice/economic justice thing rather than just endless "you don't GET it and you're not on our side!" threads. We're on the SAME side, whoever we backed in the damn primaries...the side of the suppressed majority.

It's time to accept that we don't have to choose between "social justice" or "economic justice"-that we can and must fight for both, and fighting for both, among other things is a crucial part of defeating racism, since racism always gets worse in times of hardship and scarcity.

[lamp_shade]

215. Amen.

[melman]

237. Very familiar posting style

Very.

[Cha]

243. What are you trying to say, melman?

[betsuni]

248. We're all trolls or sockpuppets!

[Cha]

253. You can alway tell when anyone is losing.. they have to resort to

insults.

[betsuni]

255. Sad!

[Arazi]

245. Yup eom

[betsuni]

246. Yes, Democrats who don't hate Democrats sound similar.

That a problem?

[Cha]

254. Zing! And we have a Winner!

[betsuni]

353. Everything's a conspiracy theory to some people.

[demmiblue]

345. Yep. n/t

[Mike Nelson]

250. Well, for one thing...

...he's not a Democrat! ...and, he didn't win the vote - Hillary won the vote. But, anyway, I see the "...polarizing, he's divisive, and he's feeding the Republican narrative" points, but I don't think that's coming from Bernie. I think that's being promoted by the "media" and the Republicans. I think Bernie has good ideas and wish we could focus on those instead of the Republican and media talking points. Moving forward is always good!

[KeepItReal]

284. Then tell your favorite Dem to break out the bullhorn and LEAD

Nobody's stopping anyone from stepping up and speaking up.

[Cha]

292. So many are Fighting the Fascistrumps in Congress.. they're

not on book tours with their face in front of a camera all the time aided by the M$M.. insulting the Well Respected Democratic President, the Democratic Party, and Normalizing trump.

[KeepItReal]

307. Bernie called Trump a pathological liar and now he's "Normalizing Trump"?

That assertion is baseless.

If criticism of President Obama for giving a $400K speech to Cantor Fitz and the party for whatever reason is "insulting", then you're entitled to your opinion. It's a free country.

[Cha]

310. BS also praised trump's foreign policy.. while he insults President Obama..

That's Normalizing.

Link to tweet

[KeepItReal]

320. Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion...

Link to tweet

"Sen. Bernie Sanders on Friday accused President Donald Trump of likely violating the United States Constitution."

In a series of tweets, the Vermont senator and 2016 Democratic presidential candidate accused Trump of unconstitutionally benefitting from the receipt of 38 new trademarks in China. Some argue that China’s quick preliminary approval of the trademarks violates portions of Article I of the Constitution, known as the “Emoluments Clause.”

“After Trump took office, a whole slew of his trademarks were quickly approved in China. Coincidence? I doubt it,” Sanders wrote. “Receiving preferential treatment for business interests from the Chinese government clearly violates the Constitution’s Emoluments Clause.”

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/bernie-sanders-trump-violate-constitution/

[Cha]

324. Yeah, and my opinion is... BS is Divisive and Wrong.

[Vinca]

297. The last time I checked, microphones and cameras were available to all Democrats.

This is a big part of our problem. Democrats in Congress often don't bother mentioning the good things they are trying to do. They are also timid about taking on Dear Leader. It's like there's a "kumbayah gene" imbedded in them. Don't blame Bernie for the apparent aversion to media Democrats have. Bernie is just being Bernie. He's been like this from day one in the public eye and it's unlikely he'll change.

[Cha]

308. That's Wrong.. the Democrats haven't been "timid" at all

about taking on trump. They're fighting him like hell in Congress. The M$M throw a mic @ BS all the damn time because all he does is insult the Democrats.

BS has been Divisive and Wrong on Insulting our Well Respected Democratic President, the Democratic Party, and Normalizing trump.

Link to tweet

[Vinca]

400. Maybe Democrats should make a little more noise. Be a little outrageous. Be newsworthy.

If Democrats stop focusing on Bernie, maybe the media will, too. I'm honestly starting to think the continual Bernie, Bernie, Bernie is just more Russian hacking. Keep Democrats divided and next thing you know Dear Leader has a second term.

[GeorgeGist]

298. Divide and conquer.

Not helpful.

[Cha]

334. BS is Divisive and he's Wrong.

[Cooley Hurd]

299. This thread is a trainwreck

[Cha]

305. Thanks for your thread, Kaye.. BS is a Poor Choice.

[ms liberty]

314. Your concern is noted, as is your enthusiasm for a divisive topic. n/t

[Demsrule86]

323. The OP used Sen.Sander's own words...so who is dividing who? nt

[Cha]

327. BS is the one who is Divisive.. and wrong.

[fun n serious]

317. I agree 100% with the OP. nt

[Demsrule86]

335. I second that...nt.

[kacekwl]

342. Since there are so many strong and decisive democratic leaders

out there you can pick the one you choose. I choose to listen to many and consider all of their ideas and views . Look, Hillary or Bernie should not be our candidates for 2020. We need to focus on gains in 2018 and finding new choices who can win in 2020 who have the best of those two and others without compromise.

[Sunlei]

348. Sanders seems to be the "best voice" for DU- 15 times on front latest thread page & rising.

must be why DU members always said, "we need his voice", voted primary for him and raised thousands of dollars for him. was it almost $100,000? from DU donations.?

[Cha]

351. He's too Divisive.. I don't want him for my voice.

[Sunlei]

362. 1/2016, Obama about Sanders, ""Why is it that we should be scared to challenge conventional wisdom a

"Why is it that we should be scared to challenge conventional wisdom and talk bluntly about inequality and, you know, be full-throated in our progressivism?" BO, 1/2016

off search today " Obama comments about Sanders."
Obama said, Sanders had "tapped into a running thread in Democratic politics that says: Why are we still constrained by the terms of the debate that were set by Ronald Reagan 30 years ago?"

"Why is it that we should be scared to challenge conventional wisdom and talk bluntly about inequality and, you know, be full-throated in our progressivism?" Obama said. "And, you know, that has an appeal and I understand that."

[Cha]

370. BS on President Obama..

Link to tweet

Why Obama SHOULD Make That Speech - And Take The Paycheck For It Too

snip//

Cantor Fitzgerald survived both losing the largest single number of employees (658) of any company with offices in the World Trade Center on 9/11 and they also survived the financial crisis because they were NOT engaging in the same reckless behavior as the other financial firms (like Lehman, AIG, et al).

Moreover, Cantor Fitzgerald has done a great deal of philanthropic work in honor of their lost employees. Along with keeping a promise to use 25% of ALL profits they earned for the next 5 years to provide money to each of the original 658 families, they also promised to cover the health insurance costs for those families for 10 years. On top of this, they have continued the legacy of those lost employees, by making charitable donations to help the victims of Hurricane Sandy and of a huge tornado, as well as other acts of kindness.

So Obama, now a PRIVATE CITIZEN, is giving a speech to a firm that survived a horrible tragedy that has impacted life in America in uncountable ways ever since, and who turned their pain into positive action by not only taking care of their own, but helping others as well. They have also recovered as a company, avoided the worst behaviors that led to the 2008 financial crisis (actually profiting in a year when so many larger investment firms folded — and hiring when thousands were being laid off), and continue to invest in smart ways (one current project involves connecting people with their own local “mom & pop” shops).

Basically, Obama is being paid to give a speech to the ONE company on Wall Street that no one should be criticizing. Oh, and by the way — he’s giving this speech at their annual healthcare conference… a subject that Obama cares deeply about — and will forever be associated with since his signature healthcare legislation has been dubbed “Obamacare”. It’s also an issue that Cantor Fitzgerald championed even while still reeling from the losses they suffered on 9/11, by promising to cover the health care of the families of their lost employees for 10 years!!

More..
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/4/28/1657222/-Why-Obama-SHOULD-Make-That-Speech-And-Take-The-Paycheck-For-It-Too

Link to tweet

[Sunlei]

372. I think wall street should pay Obama a million or two for the paid speech, they can afford it.

[Cha]

378. Oh, and by the way he's giving this speech at their annual healthcare conference

… a subject that Obama cares deeply about — and will forever be associated with since his signature healthcare legislation has been dubbed “Obamacare” It’s also an issue that Cantor Fitzgerald championed even while still reeling from the losses they suffered on 9/11, by promising to cover the health care of the families of their lost employees for 10 years!!

snip from the diary//

[Sunlei]

389. Yes, I think he's been listed as a conference speaker for almost a year. Even wall street thought H

Hillary would win.

[Demsrule86]

363. I disagree...we are Democrats and Sen. Sanders's is not and apparently doesn't want to be a Democrat

[Sunlei]

368. He could have run as Independent and split the General Election voters. Rs would have loved that.

[Cha]

371. The way he always insulted the Dem party.. he may as

well have.

[Demsrule86]

427. He should have run as an independent...It would have been better for the Democratic Party.

I hope we have learned our lesson and never allow independents to run as Democrats.

[NurseJackie]

487. I'm in complete agreement with you. Better for the party and better for many online forums.

I hate blurry lines. It would have made it very clear who's-who and what's-what. There would be a clear delineation of where someone stands and which party they support. I see that as being a good thing.

[QC]

377. Sometimes I see all these Bernie threads and wonder if Trump got impeached

and I just didn't hear about it.

[KingCharlemagne]

369. Not one example equals EPIC FAIL (and trash thread) - nt

[QC]

376. Welcome back!

[Littlered9560]

382. Thanks for this post.

As a low post count member I'm not allowed to speak out against him. If I do I risk getting a post hidden.

[randr]

386. Bernie is merely filling a vacuum

Where is the new leadership and what are their platforms?
What are the "new" Democratic Partys plans for our future?

[Cha]

408. No, BS is not filling any damn vacumn.. The vacumn

does not need that kind of divisive rhetoric.

[randr]

413. The vacuum exists no matter how you feel about Bernie

[Cha]

420. Just because the M$M puts him on tv to Insult the Democratic

Party and President Obama doesn't not mean BS is filling a vacuum.

There are many people who are noticing and not impressed with his divisive rhetoric.

[randr]

461. You're preachin to the choir

I was an early supporter of Bernie, went to state convention as a delegate where he won, and went on to support Hillary against the lsos.
Things have changed and we are now in need of a new leader and direction. Just redefining our Democratic principle would work for me.
I am turning 70 today and one thing I know for sure, it is a long and winding road.
The lsos won because his minions are engaged, pissed off, and have a fairly clear idea of what they want.
If the Democrats can fire up their majority of Americans, give them an agenda they believe in, and get them to the polls we will put and end to the madness.

[Cha]

464. Just stating the facts.

[JudyM]

468. A big HAPPY BIRTHDAY, randr!

I hope you have a fabulous day.

[randr]

476. Every day is fabulous when you live in Colorado

Thanks a heap

[JudyM]

481. Ohh, nice - I'll bet! Lots to be grateful for.

Enjoy!

Ps it's my brother's BD today too

[randr]

482. Thanks again--give your brother my best

I share this day with the best employee I have ever had. We are like brothers.

[JudyM]

485. Aww, sweet.

[leftstreet]

439. +1

[NastyRiffraff]

403. Thank you

Sanders isn't helping; in fact he's hurting Democrats with his constant carping, while showing support for Dump.

Oh, and K&R!

[hrmjustin]

407. If the guy can't even join the party and spends most of his time now criticizing it's members

then I do not want him representing our party.

He has a place in our politics but not as leader or spokesman of our party!

[YoungDemCA]

417. Poll: Bernie Sanders countrys most popular active politician

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders (I) is the country’s most popular active politician, underscoring his importance to the Democratic Party as it seeks to rebuild in the wake of a disastrous 2016 election cycle.

Sanders is viewed favorably by 57 percent of registered voters, according to data from a Harvard-Harris survey provided exclusively to The Hill. Sanders is the only person in a field of 16 Trump administration officials or congressional leaders included in the survey who is viewed favorably by a majority of those polled.

[Cha]

445. I call Bull.. that's not what I'm seeing all over

the place.. his latest jab at insulting President Obama did not go over well at all.. even among his own fans.

He lost the Rude Pundit on that one. The M$M puts him on tv to insult the Democratic Party and President Obama.

African Americans?! Right... LOL And, they sure as hell didn't ask me or my friends or family.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[George II]

454. What is the date of that poll, and what was the question and/or possible choices?

[Gothmog]

430. Great OP

Thank you fpr posting

[Raster]

440. THIS POST IS A Divisive piece o' crap...

...NYET!

[Cha]

443. Yes, BS' Divisive Rhetoric is just what you said..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[KPN]

447. Kettle, meet pot.

I really have to wonder why so many are so sensitive to what so many others see as legitimate constructive criticism. Hard to wrap my head around.

[karynnj]

448. Keyword is "a"

If you said "the" then you would have a point. He is a strong voice on SOME issues and he captured more votes than any loser of the nomination other than HRC herself in 2008.

I suspect what we are seeing with all the anger against Sanders AND a much much less anger against Clinton is that, in reality, there are people fighting for the direction of the party. Neither Sanders or Clinton are themselves likely to be the nominee in 2020, but at the moment they can be "used" to define the two parts of the party that are jostling for control. Each is making an argument that the other side is a losing path. At the moment, probably because Sanders is more public, we are mostly hearing the anger against him.

However, if HRC or BC moved to be seen as the standard bearer of the party, you would likely hear the other side - just as angry - arguing that the DLC (yeah I know it died a decade or so ago), neoliberal (also, misused), third way (more a Blair phrase than American) side of the party has not succeeded since Bill Clinton left office. (Yeah, I know BOTH sides will fight to claim the popular Obama!)

Meanwhile, both nationally and internationally there seems to be an earthquake that may lead to the redefinition of both parties. It has always been difficult to define parties - as there really are more than one or two variables. This makes every attempt of placing politicians on either a one dimensional or two dimensional space to define them. One thing that can cause alignments to change is when a new issue becomes dominant. In 2016,in both parties for many people a prime issue was isolationism/nationalism vs openness to the world, both in being engaged via diplomacy, immigration, and trade.

Watching the French election, I read an article that Britain needs a "British Macron". By that the article spoke of someone who could create a new center. I just read an article that spoke of how Macron, as the France's Finance minister fought Germany at the EU on the austerity program for Greece, that caused real pain. Note, in this, he was arguing for what Obama did - rather than what the EU eventually did. This suggests that, while he is for globalization, the EU etc, he is concerned about the impact on people.

After the election, I listened to a radio interview with Jeffrey Sachs, who was a Bernie adviser speak about trade deals. Given that he supported and advised Sanders, it was interesting that he spoke of how it was true that trade deals do expand the overall "pie". He argued that the key was that the US needed to require that the winners give up part of their gain to help the "losers". Too much money under current plans goes just to the top. We KNOW the Republicans have no problem with the money going to the top.

The question is whether anyone in the Democratic party could articulate that a good trade bill coupled with legislation here that insures that the losers get interim support and support getting new jobs in areas that lose jobs - either overseas or to other places in the US. (It is important to remember that the rust belt lost jobs to the non unionized South - and then they went overseas. I think Obama COULD have been the person to do this had TPP happened a year or two earlier than it did. He obviously believed in the need for trade deals as he worked on two huge ones - now dead. He and his administration were relatively quiet on this in the crucial last year -- likely because it was completely against the position Clinton took. As it was, I saw posts blaming Obama's TPP as why HRC lost in the three rust belt states.

My hope is that Macron and Renzi (Italy), who was greatly respected and liked by the Obama administration, win and show that it is possible to create a new liberal position that can bridge the two sides of the Democratic party here. Then I hope that among the many good younger Democratic leaders there is someone who could make a case that will appeal to the two wings of the party. Note that, if this happens, this really is consistent with President Obama and Secretary Kerry. We need someone more similar to OBAMA, than to either the HRC or Sanders wings. I suspect that the current center of the party might well be very near someone like Obama.

Caveat - I am genuinely on thin ice speaking of the European elections. I did follow the news, but I also see how weirdly wrong various journalists in Israeli or European papers get our politics and politicians - because they look through their own lens, often missing things we take for granted. I may be doing exactly that myself - possibly looking for a glimmer of hope in a Trump world.

[dragonlady]

450. Totally disgree n/t

[RazBerryBeret]

457. who said he's the leading voice for the Democratic Party?

he doesn't claim that title. he's the leading Progressive Voice.
Get over it. He's a well respected Senator and has one of the highest approval rating of any politician in the country. Here we all seem to Love to Hate him, but he just keeps going. Kudos.

[phleshdef]

467. He is. Will continue to be. Get over it.

You are powerless to do anything about it.

[Cha]

475. Yes, BS is a poor choice.. and yes we Do Have the Power

.. WE Are the Resistance.

[elleng]

479. LEARN somethings here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017436277

[mikehiggins]

494. How many times is this going to be posted before it is alerted? n/t

[we can do it]

497. He isn't a democrat.