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Tue May 2, 2017, 06:25 PM

Why don't we give him the wall for healthcare?

Wall is a stupid idea but not super harmful and not that expensive.

Why not trade up a real and good healthcare plan and him parade around his wall? Let it be the most beautiful wall ever if we can keep key elements of healthcare and make it better.

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Reply Why don't we give him the wall for healthcare? (Original post)
metroins May 2017 OP
WinkyDink May 2017 #1
ret5hd May 2017 #3
metroins May 2017 #4
mahatmakanejeeves May 2017 #26
Honeycombe8 May 2017 #47
demmiblue May 2017 #2
metroins May 2017 #5
JHan May 2017 #6
Laurian May 2017 #7
PoorMonger May 2017 #8
Texasgal May 2017 #9
MineralMan May 2017 #48
struggle4progress May 2017 #10
2naSalit May 2017 #38
nolabear May 2017 #43
MADem May 2017 #11
maveric May 2017 #12
Freethinker65 May 2017 #13
PoorMonger May 2017 #14
Wounded Bear May 2017 #15
Lucinda May 2017 #16
NightWatcher May 2017 #17
WinkyDink May 2017 #18
kacekwl May 2017 #19
Horse with no Name May 2017 #20
Hekate May 2017 #21
Phoenix61 May 2017 #22
angstlessk May 2017 #23
metroins May 2017 #33
MedusaX May 2017 #24
spanone May 2017 #25
Sculpin Beauregard May 2017 #27
mahatmakanejeeves May 2017 #28
Dyedinthewoolliberal May 2017 #29
Thomas Hurt May 2017 #30
WhiteTara May 2017 #31
Cattledog May 2017 #32
tirebiter May 2017 #34
LaydeeBug May 2017 #35
2naSalit May 2017 #40
CupcakeQueen May 2017 #36
yodermon May 2017 #37
nikibatts May 2017 #39
2naSalit May 2017 #41
duncang May 2017 #42
Leith May 2017 #44
Demsrule86 May 2017 #45
MineralMan May 2017 #46
LOL Lib May 2017 #54
wishstar May 2017 #49
Squinch May 2017 #50
bmbmd May 2017 #51
Hekate May 2017 #62
VOX May 2017 #52
Danmel May 2017 #53
lunasun May 2017 #56
Retrograde May 2017 #55
LexVegas May 2017 #57
mvd May 2017 #58
bettyellen May 2017 #59
GReedDiamond May 2017 #60
herding cats May 2017 #61

Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:26 PM

1. "not that expensive" was your first mistake.

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #1)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:27 PM

3. "Not harmful" was another.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #1)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:28 PM

4. Compared to healthcare

The wall is meaningless.

Healthcare is much more important.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #1)


Response to WinkyDink (Reply #1)

Tue May 2, 2017, 08:23 PM

47. True. It's VERY expensive. And parts can't be done, probably. There's a river, for one thing.

And some terrain that would be very difficult to wall across. You have to buy (or sue to take) easements across every landowner's land for thousands of miles.

Trump, as usual, had no idea what he was talking about.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:26 PM

2. Not that expensive?! Right. And no. n/t

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #2)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:29 PM

5. Compared to healthcare

The wall is peanuts.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:30 PM

6. Unfortunately the "wall" is a metaphor, it's code for kicking people out.

It's code for cracking down on families.

I never took his talk about a physical wall seriously, maybe he will build up some parts of border but the "wall" is symbolic talk to justify creating a larger deportation "force" and implementing anti-immigrant policies.

And it is the wall combined with the taxcuts that will hurt Americans.

We will never get a good healthcare plan under this President.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:31 PM

7. I wouldn't give him shit.

No negotiating with the lunatic. Let him make an ass out of himself every single day, showing his total ignorance about every issue.

Fuck Trump.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:33 PM

8. No Wall!

The stupid wall isn't happening ; also you act like he would even do anything positive on healthcare. It would only embolden that asshole and would sure up his republican support while demoralizing the left and all his opponents to think the actually won on such an asinine idea.

If you went Trump to win in 2020 by all means capitulate on his awful wall.

He needs to be defeated by this terrible racist promise at every turn.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:34 PM

9. Not harmful?

Really? In what way?

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Response to Texasgal (Reply #9)

Tue May 2, 2017, 08:24 PM

48. I think the poster meant not harmful to the poster.

That's what I think.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:34 PM

10. Expensive ineffective environmental disaster, smothered in racist scapegoating

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #10)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:56 PM

38. +1

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #10)

Tue May 2, 2017, 08:16 PM

43. + another 1

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:37 PM

11. Not that expensive?

You could pay for a lot of health care for the cost of that wall.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:37 PM

12. I live in San Diego and I don't want that thing anywhere...

Near me or family. Contractors are already putting in bids down here. Some from across the border.
I want healthcare AND no wall.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:38 PM

13. NO DEAL

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:39 PM

14. And if it did result in Healthcare....

As an actual compromise - it would also make Trump look like a deal maker when in fact he's a no nothing idiot.

Right now with no wall and no repeal of Obamacare these are the two things Dems are winning on for policy and for enthusiasm for 2018 - 2020

To do what you suggest would give Trump two massive wins he can't get any other way.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:43 PM

15. Why give him anything?

He and the Repubs were all about winning. They won.

Let the Repubs make deals with him.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:43 PM

16. Nope. n/t

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:43 PM

17. Give him NOTHING! We are winning and must not let down our guard.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:46 PM

18. Furthermore, Trump isn't even aware of the health-care details. It's Ryan who is driving this wreck.

 

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:48 PM

19. They would NEVER offer the

kind of health care that won't make their contributors buckets of $$$$$.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:51 PM

20. fuck that

seriously.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:54 PM

21. First, the "Border Wall" is a metaphor for a 21st century Iron Curtain to keep us IN ...

...and the rest of the world out. Do we really want to be THAT nation? The nation so fearful and cowardly we cannot bear being presented with, much less confronted by, anyone the least bit unlike ourselves?

Monetarily, the cost will end up being beyond belief, but psychologically the cost will end up being far more than we can ever afford to pay and still call ourselves Americans.

Second, no one -- and I mean no one -- ever seems to talk about the ecological cost. Unlike the Berlin Wall and the Warsaw Ghetto Wall, which were largely achieved by infilling city buildings, US borders with Mexico and Canada are mostly thousands of miles of open land -- forests, deserts, mountains, rivers -- all of which are the natural habitat, migration routes, and hunting territories of abundant species, some of them already endangered.

Third, and finally, Trump is insane and nothing he says can be taken for truth. The GOP Congress is his enabler as much as his family is, and altho many have been shaken by the Resistance in their home districts, they still are not to be trusted.

No. No deals. No quid pro quo.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 06:57 PM

22. Nope, no way, not a chance

You don't negotiate with terrorists or traitors. He wants the wall, he can figure out how to pay for it.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:03 PM

23. Let's pretend trump is an honorable negotiator...

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #23)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:35 PM

33. That's a good point nt

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:04 PM

24. Sorry, but We DON'T NEGOTIATE with Radical White Nationalists or

Xenophobic Misogynistic Racists
Or
Garden Variety Dumb-Asses






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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:06 PM

25. bullshit. MAKE THEM sweat out healthcare. they will never 'get it right'

Obamacare has boxed them in. they will NEVER offer a real and good healthcare plan.

they never wanted it to begin with.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:10 PM

27. FUCK NO!! No capitulation to the Crime Party. They are complicit.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:12 PM

28. I wouldn't piss in his mouth if his throat were on fire. Please excuse my language.

He's such a swell guy.

I can provide several reasons, if you'd like. Number one for me is his disdain for science, facts, and evidence.

His type are something you fight, not something you appease.

No compromise. Not now. Not ever.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:14 PM

29. You better go lie down for a while.

It appears you are dis-oriented and out of touch with reality

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:15 PM

30. because....screw him

let him continue to fail....

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:31 PM

31. old saying

he who would give up liberty for a little security deserves neither.

The most harmful part is that it would destroy the habitat of all the creatures who live in there. And we really don't have that many species to spare.

It is also degrading to both the immigrants and to us. Also, it would steal the Rio Grande River from Mexico. We might have our first water war over this.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:35 PM

32. No wall, no way, never. No compromise.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:40 PM

34. Trump speaks with a forked tongue

He'd make some kind of deal then sign an EO to undo it.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:40 PM

35. Because we don't negotiate with terrorists, and we are woke. nt

 

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Response to LaydeeBug (Reply #35)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:59 PM

40. +1!

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:46 PM

36. Not that expensive?

 

??? What's the number? I haven't heard it but I doubt I would consider it not that expensive.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:56 PM

37. yes, actually. Single payer Healthcare is so monumental I would do it.

Walls can be torn down later.
Not a popular opinion on this thread I see. Oh well.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 07:56 PM

39. Ahhhhh...the art of the deal!

 

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 08:02 PM

41. Because it's a stupid

f'ing idea. NO capitulation! The wall is not going to happen and we should NEVER even consider such a stupid thing. It's apples and oranges and the orange part is not legitimate.


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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 08:10 PM

42. One other problem

For me I have never been a supporter of eminent domain. Taking away someones land for the wall to me is wrong. Also you end up with farms or communities blocked off by that wall. This has already happened and the proposed routes for sections will continue it. Try to explain to some one they are now going to be blocked off from the rest of the U.S. and will have to go through a gate to get to their house. There was a couple with a farm on the "wrong" side of the wall sitting there watching their family home burn down because the fire department was having a hard time getting to it.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 08:16 PM

44. Hell No

Some posters hinted at this, but I will say it outright:

We do not want a single Democratic vote for that wall.


It's racist. It's a stupid idea. It's bad for the local ecology. It's bad international relations. It's expensive. Here's another reason it's stupid: very few undocumented people are crossing the desert and swimming the Rio Grande. They are entering the country with visas and not leaving when the visas expire. A wall does nothing to stop that.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 08:19 PM

45. It is extremely expensive and they would never live up to any deal.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 08:22 PM

46. Don't give Trump anything for anything!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #46)

Tue May 2, 2017, 10:12 PM

54. No, give Trump hell.

Lots of hell!
Lots of grief.
Lots of egg on his orange face.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 08:42 PM

49. Can't negotiate in good faith with a lying psychopathic conman

Hundreds of people he has done business with can attest to his inability to honor his agreements. His proposed deals are nothing more than BS.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 09:39 PM

50. Why don't you go -- ... Nevermind... Not gonna say it.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 09:49 PM

51. I would offer that trade, but make it

"A wall of humans". Add forty thousand agents and patrol the heck out of the border. Drones, choppers, jet boats-the whole nine yards. Put a bunch of ex-marines and gi's back to work. Pour some money in to the border region. Just a thought

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Response to bmbmd (Reply #51)

Tue May 2, 2017, 11:48 PM

62. Crossings are way down. Why make it into a defacto war zone? Most undocumenteds ....

...fly in and overstay their visa. And they're not Mexican. Just sayin'

What is this fascination some have with militarizing a nation that is supposed to be civilian? Contrary to RWNJ hysteria, millions and millions of Hispanics are not storming our borders...

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 09:57 PM

52. Just the IDEA of that fucking wall is offensive...

Not harmful? It's a slap in the face to every hard-working Latino/Latina and their families. It is blatently racist and xenophobic, and would be a very expensive monument to backward, hateful thinking.

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Response to Danmel (Reply #53)

Tue May 2, 2017, 10:23 PM

56. I was thinking even if the poster isn't concerned with the cost, human toll or neighborly relations

normalized, what about the environmental impact? Thanks for adding that link.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 10:23 PM

55. And after he eats all his spinach we can give him some ice cream

Aside from IMHO the wall being a stupid idea that will cause possibly irrepairable damage to our relations with Mexico, the rest of the Western Hemisphere, and the sane population of the planet, it is expensive (even with eminent domain people have to be compensated for their lands, just as a start) and it will have major environmental impacts.

But basically I don't trust Trump or the Republican leadership in Congress to keep their word. If we agree to a wall and good healthcare we'll end up with an expensive boondoggle that will pipeline money to big campaign donors and no healthcare. I want the Democrats in Congress to push on healthcare and push back on the idiotic wall.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 10:42 PM

57. Fuck that noise. nt

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 10:46 PM

58. It's not practical. And it IS expensive, xenophobic, racist

Even for single payer, I wouldn't agree. Because the wall won't happen.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 10:58 PM

59. You agree with the immigration policy and new procedures? The wall is PART of that that cannot be s

 

Seerae- and cheap and easy? Are you kidding me?
And finally- what makes you think he'd give us anything good with healthcare? Interesting suggestion we trade immigrants for it though.

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 11:03 PM

60. Hmmmmm, gimme a second or two to think about that...

...NO FUCKIN WAY!

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Response to metroins (Original post)

Tue May 2, 2017, 11:09 PM

61. For one thing it could potentially lead to the extinction of jaguars, ocelots, Mexican gray wolf.

Not good enough for you? I have some stuff I could say about the stealing of the land from its current US owners, but that The actual cost will be more like 60-67 billion dollars. Thats money spent on a wall which is geoglist say is gonna be a big huge fail, no matter how much money they funnel into it.

People want healthcare which covers their families, their preexisting medical conditions and they also want their mom and dad to have affordable healthcare with options for their long-term care. We're on the right side of this, we don't need to give Trump anything, let alone his stupid wall, for healthcare.

Then there's the racist part, I realize not all people in the Big Tent give a shit about that now-a-days, but it's still a huge issue for the majority of us in here, and not being asshole racists is a HUGE plank in our platform. Several planks, actually.

Oh, and the diplomatic problems with Mexico... they're pretty massive, too. They're the second largest buyers of US goods ($231 billion in 2016), so we really can't just go just pissing them off over something which is already a really, really bad idea, just to make Trump feel good.

Which brings me to my last point, Fuck Trump and his stupid wall!

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