Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
Sat May 13, 2017, 09:31 PM May 2017

EXCLUSIVE: Sealed Indictment granted against Donald Trump

Last edited Sun May 14, 2017, 12:09 PM - Edit history (3)

ON EDIT:




By Louise Mensch and Claude Taylor

Separate sources with links to the intelligence and justice communities have stated that a sealed indictment has been granted against Donald Trump.

While it is understood that the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution means that, until Mr. Trump is impeached, he cannot be prosecuted, sources say that the indictment is intended by the FBI and prosecutors in the Justice Department to form the basis of Mr. Trump’s impeachment. The indictment is, perhaps uniquely, not intended or expected to be used for prosecution, sources say, because of the constitutional position of the President.


NEW TWEET: This indicates a National Security case and likely Logan Act violations.




18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.


As this story has developed, it has become obvious these two threads are very much intertwined:
Trump's New Impeachable Offenses: Obstruction of Justice, Conspiracy, Abuse of Power
Flynn Intel Group associates were subpoenaed by same Grand Jury just hours before Comey was fired.

BEFORE EDIT: This explains some of the first posts, before we knew what the big news would be.


134 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
EXCLUSIVE: Sealed Indictment granted against Donald Trump (Original Post) L. Coyote May 2017 OP
Sounds like an interesting project. shraby May 2017 #1
Good-Its Been a slow News day Stallion May 2017 #2
Fitzmas. Itchinjim May 2017 #3
It ain't Fitzmas yet, but it ain't NOT Fitzmas yet either. JHB May 2017 #16
Is it a Saturday Night Massacre? L. Coyote May 2017 #64
Frog-marching Karl Rove out of the White House. Miles Archer May 2017 #102
Pure Fitzmas, plain and simple. COLGATE4 May 2017 #127
Real life has become such a roller coaster, I think I've become desensitized. hlthe2b May 2017 #4
...looking forward to it. Ellipsis May 2017 #5
Ooh! cwydro May 2017 #6
I know, but I'm still a dog anticipating a bone from whatever source it may come. NBachers May 2017 #7
here ya go... Ellipsis May 2017 #8
Um, no. The FISA courts don't issue indictments. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2017 #28
...don't kill the messenger Ellipsis May 2017 #37
Louise Mensch says no issuing court specified womanofthehills May 2017 #39
Except, FISA has no authority to issue indictments.. pangaia May 2017 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author sharedvalues May 2017 #35
FISA courts do not issue indictments. COLGATE4 May 2017 #128
my understanding is that's been addressed Ellipsis May 2017 #131
Within 24 business hours nt geek tragedy May 2017 #9
Great info! Thx. Can't wait. nt R B Garr May 2017 #58
So 3 days... nt sarah FAILIN May 2017 #88
OP edited with the news: Trump sealed indictment, intended to be basis of impeachment. L. Coyote May 2017 #10
Trump himself is STILL CALLING IT "FAKE NEWS" but wanted Comey to ensure that he wasn't being anneboleyn May 2017 #118
Having to ask if you are being investigated is an admission of guilty of something. L. Coyote May 2017 #119
amazing Mensch keeps landing this huge stories when no one else in the media has any idea Takket May 2017 #11
Great to have intel informants and be a conduit for British Intel. L. Coyote May 2017 #14
Conduit for British Intel is key sharedvalues May 2017 #36
Yeah, and I like it sooo much...yay! iluvtennis May 2017 #50
LOL greytdemocrat May 2017 #61
What is all this? Goodheart May 2017 #12
Sweet irony, Trump became a Juris Doctor today. L. Coyote May 2017 #13
Omg, and can you imagine Leghorn21 May 2017 #56
Not only is that indefensible, but he is too. L. Coyote May 2017 #60
Oui oui! Why, just look how quickly he learnt allllll about "healthcare" in a matter of a couple of Leghorn21 May 2017 #67
"Who knew lawyering was so difficult?" L. Coyote May 2017 #69
"Says who?!", dammit! - hell L., things are moving fast tonight, but here's a linky to Leghorn21 May 2017 #74
This just laid an egg in LBN. ucrdem May 2017 #15
I missed linking this thread before it closed, but the Mensch trolls were there right away. L. Coyote May 2017 #17
Well, it's Saturday night, so I'm guessing at some point they'll call it a prank ucrdem May 2017 #22
Botnets give me shade Comrade Donald May 2017 #103
I just posted the Raw Story article there. Rec it up :-) L. Coyote May 2017 #54
Locking. Well, Raw Story isn't good enough for DU, I guess. L. Coyote May 2017 #62
It's back and I recced it up. ucrdem May 2017 #68
Well, I wonder what happened. Maybe they've had a Raw Story or two before! L. Coyote May 2017 #71
WHY THE HELL was that thread locked? DUers link to RawStory all the time. The Mensch trolls are out! anneboleyn May 2017 #117
24 business hours oberliner May 2017 #18
Time for me to take a break from Mensch/Taylor Freethinker65 May 2017 #19
I just switched to them after watching Woodward and Bernstein for forty years. L. Coyote May 2017 #21
DU will be enough. Do not need to follow them on twitter tho Freethinker65 May 2017 #26
More tweets from Mensch and Taylor L. Coyote May 2017 #20
Hopefully something will come of this soon to confirm or refute... renegade000 May 2017 #23
This doesn't sound plausible. Is this a prank or fake news???? nt Honeycombe8 May 2017 #24
More posts on what may be the biggest story ever to break on Twitter: L. Coyote May 2017 #25
Unless this is confirmed I wont believe it as sources have been wrong in the past. nt cstanleytech May 2017 #27
Their sources have been good in the past, so I'd be more positive about this. L. Coyote May 2017 #32
Even the best journalists get it wrong, sometimes on accident and sometimes its done to take them cstanleytech May 2017 #38
FISA courts don't issue indictments, folks. Their power is limited to The Velveteen Ocelot May 2017 #30
FISA court can convene a grand jury who can issue a true bill. Madam45for2923 May 2017 #31
I can find no authority in the FISA act that says FISA courts The Velveteen Ocelot May 2017 #48
It didn't sound plausible, anyway. nt Honeycombe8 May 2017 #84
Grand juries do. L. Coyote May 2017 #33
No it can't jberryhill May 2017 #63
I agree caution is in order. renegade000 May 2017 #34
As long as he is President and Congress refuses to impeach would any indictment even do any good cstanleytech May 2017 #42
You're right about that. renegade000 May 2017 #45
I think you could have video tape proof of him selling the nuclear codes to Russia and the Repugants cstanleytech May 2017 #47
Well I agree with people doing what they can locally being of prime importance... renegade000 May 2017 #51
Aye that is their Achilles heel at this moment providing its properly exploited. cstanleytech May 2017 #53
There are specific, detailed rules governing the procedures for federal grand juries. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2017 #57
Lack of legal authority to do so. This story is absolutely false. Yo_Mama May 2017 #59
Article III jberryhill May 2017 #65
Thanks, that's what I was looking for. n/t renegade000 May 2017 #70
Exactly! bench scientist May 2017 #82
Mensch did not mention a specific court womanofthehills May 2017 #40
K&R nt ProudProgressiveNow May 2017 #41
Fool me once, shame on Fitzmas, fool me twice Fiendish Thingy May 2017 #43
+1 Erick the Read May 2017 #52
+2 Would that it would be true spiderpig May 2017 #73
I think Louise and Claude are on their 3rd bottle of wine tonight BannonsLiver May 2017 #83
Celebrating the first Comey Day/Saturday Night Massacre L. Coyote May 2017 #90
More tweets: L. Coyote May 2017 #44
Keith Olbermann tweet: L. Coyote May 2017 #46
The story is starting to propagate, retweets 10K for Taylor and Mensch. L. Coyote May 2017 #49
Sounds too good to be true nycbos May 2017 #55
Please confirm from a reliable source before I start my happy dance spiderpig May 2017 #66
Wrong forum, please repost. tritsofme May 2017 #72
Clearly FISA convened grand jury which issued indictment. Happy Comey Day. L. Coyote May 2017 #75
Is Comey Day going to be one of those ones which is always Monday? jberryhill May 2017 #76
RICO enid602 May 2017 #77
If the grand jury was conveyed by the FISA court, it is likely a NatSec case. L. Coyote May 2017 #80
I wish this to be true more than anything I have ever wished for in my life Quixote1818 May 2017 #78
If the FBI wanted to really get rid of Trump Tiggeroshii May 2017 #79
NOT having citizen-grand juries is the whole POINT of the FISC courts Nevernose May 2017 #81
This sounds like O'keefe trying to punk everybody! mfcorey1 May 2017 #85
Definition of "sealed indictment" for anyone who doesn't understand (like me)... lamp_shade May 2017 #86
What a crock of shit Foamfollower May 2017 #87
Have you forgotten the FBI Directoer James Comey verified her earlier exclusive reporting. L. Coyote May 2017 #89
He did no such thing! Foamfollower May 2017 #95
4UR reading pleasure: Full transcript: FBI Director James Comey testifies on Russian interference L. Coyote May 2017 #97
Thank you for confirming what I said! Foamfollower May 2017 #98
Denial. L. Coyote May 2017 #99
Would this indictment in some way force Congress to act? L. Coyote May 2017 #91
Manafort and Flynn, others under sealed indictment. L. Coyote May 2017 #92
"within next hour." cwydro May 2017 #93
I just re-edited the OP to clarify. Plus the big new news is in the OP: Manafort and Flynn indicted L. Coyote May 2017 #94
They've been indicted? cwydro May 2017 #110
Subpoenas issued for Flynn associates by the Grand Jury indicting Trump, Manafort, Flynn, and others L. Coyote May 2017 #111
We all want (desperately) for this to be true... cwydro May 2017 #112
If Trump had released his taxes and was not hiding his collusions we would not need speculation. Madam45for2923 May 2017 #96
Dana Boente is leading the Russia probe, although the decision to prosecute falls with Rosenstein. L. Coyote May 2017 #100
Now we know why Obama tried to get rid of Dana Boente PubliusEnigma May 2017 #101
How soon did Trump start obstructing justice? L. Coyote May 2017 #104
Flynn-associate subpoenas were issued by Dana Boente, EDVA US Atty who succeeded Yates L. Coyote May 2017 #105
Louise Mensch is becoming the left's Alex Jones. beaglelover May 2017 #106
Uh, no. GliderGuider May 2017 #124
How long did you hold your breath after Mensch's pre-election FISA report. L. Coyote May 2017 #126
Empty Wheel weights in on Special Counsel: Boente Is the Best Short Term Solution. L. Coyote May 2017 #107
Yawn.... WoonTars May 2017 #108
"No one is above the law, not a high public official, not even the highest public official." Boente L. Coyote May 2017 #109
Trump is NOT happy with Mensch and Taylor. Oh well. L. Coyote May 2017 #113
Source: upwards of 70 individuals/entities targeted for indictment. L. Coyote May 2017 #114
I'm getting whiplash reading about Dana Boente's role in this onenote May 2017 #115
I read a theory that Obama's firing of Boente might have been a head fake. GliderGuider May 2017 #125
At end of string is money laundering, RICO, FARA, Obstruction, Conspiracy ... just getting started. L. Coyote May 2017 #116
RICO case against ***the entire GOP*** Reince Priebus is on tape, sources say L. Coyote May 2017 #120
Lol yeah right. 😂 Oneironaut May 2017 #121
Broadsword_Six is swinging for the fence. GliderGuider May 2017 #122
What does it even mean to say a RICO case is being brought against the "entire" GOP? onenote May 2017 #129
dKos diary: About that Trump indictment story... By claireducky L. Coyote May 2017 #123
I wish. I pray. I hope. CanonRay May 2017 #130
Is This Before Or After The Karl Rove Indictments? SoCalMusicLover May 2017 #132
EXCLUSIVE: U.S Marshals Service Readying in #TrumpRussia case L. Coyote May 2017 #133
Marshal Order of Execution began yesterday - search and seizure in 10 locations L. Coyote May 2017 #134

JHB

(37,160 posts)
16. It ain't Fitzmas yet, but it ain't NOT Fitzmas yet either.
Sat May 13, 2017, 10:37 PM
May 2017

They can chatter and tease all they want, but until people are frogmarched, things haven't changed.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
64. Is it a Saturday Night Massacre?
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:53 PM
May 2017

This time the President is the one getting the "You're FIRED" notice.

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
102. Frog-marching Karl Rove out of the White House.
Sun May 14, 2017, 11:07 AM
May 2017

I remember that. It was a great day.

I'm well past the "I'll believe it when I see it" phase, well past being a full-blown cynic.

I'm wary of "EXCLUSIVES."

Wary.

And weary.

I'll start high-fiving when the legal proceedings begin.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
127. Pure Fitzmas, plain and simple.
Mon May 15, 2017, 03:31 PM
May 2017

Some of us are so frustrated with seeing this Bozo day to day that we are inclined to believe any ray of sunshine, even when it turns out to be pure fantasy.

hlthe2b

(102,247 posts)
4. Real life has become such a roller coaster, I think I've become desensitized.
Sat May 13, 2017, 09:55 PM
May 2017

Still, though I read lots of "breaking news" with a big grain of salt (and especially the hot sources, such as these), I just can't help but hope they have something that will signal this hellacious period is not forever.

Regardless of the likelihood of disappointment, I can't turn away...

NBachers

(17,108 posts)
7. I know, but I'm still a dog anticipating a bone from whatever source it may come.
Sat May 13, 2017, 10:04 PM
May 2017

I know they're out there, and I know they're coming closer and closer to me.

Meanwhile, this looks interesting:

Louise Mensch?Verified account @LouiseMensch 1m1 minute ago
More
EXCLUSIVE: Sealed Indictment granted against Donald Trump https://patribotics.blog/2017/05/14/exclusive-sealed-indictment-granted-against-donald-trump/ … <--- by @TrueFactsStated and me.

https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F10029060738

https://patribotics.blog/2017/05/14/exclusive-sealed-indictment-granted-against-donald-trump/

Ellipsis

(9,124 posts)
8. here ya go...
Sat May 13, 2017, 10:08 PM
May 2017

... a sealed indictment has been issued against Trump by FISA court to serve as the basis of Impeachment.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,683 posts)
28. Um, no. The FISA courts don't issue indictments.
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:00 PM
May 2017

Their power is limited under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to evaluating requests for surveillance warrants against foreign spies by federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies. Indictments are issued by grand juries under the supervision of a federal district court, not a FISA court.

Response to pangaia (Reply #29)

anneboleyn

(5,611 posts)
118. Trump himself is STILL CALLING IT "FAKE NEWS" but wanted Comey to ensure that he wasn't being
Mon May 15, 2017, 11:20 AM
May 2017

investigated by the FBI for the "fake news" of Russian interference and collusion and apparent $$$$ exchanged from Russian hands to Trump team members' (big greedy) hands. So that rather interestingly suggests that Trump himself doesn't believe that the story is fake news, as if he had never done anything, as he claims, he would probably be irritated by an investigation that slowed him down politically but he would NOT be demanding a pledge of loyalty from the FBI director. Trump's inner demons are constantly being projected onto others. Basically anything he accuses Hillary or anyone else of doing he is doing.

Typical response from Trump talking head on CNN or Fox: "But...but...but Trump isn't worried! You people are all crazzzzy conspiracy nutters! Trump just fired General Flynn because he didn't like his squeaky shoes, not because he is tangled up in the Russian mess up to his eyeballs! Everybody knows that Flynn is one of the bestest men ever ever and the evil MSM just destroyed him! And Trump just asked Comey about whether or not he was being investigated as part of the totally fake Russia investigation, three times, and when poor persecuted Prez Trump couldn't get a definitive answer or "pledge of loyalty" he decided to fire him just like any other president would (not) do!!! Now pivot to Hillary Pivot to Hillary! Pivot! Pivot! Mention something about the dnc and Bernie! SQUIRREL! Talk about winning Michigan! Talk about Ronald Reagan! Oh yes, finish with the trifecta: the grand finale of evil immigrants, terrorism threats, and the Bowling Green massacre!!!"

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
119. Having to ask if you are being investigated is an admission of guilty of something.
Mon May 15, 2017, 12:27 PM
May 2017

Innocent people would never think about it, much less fret about it or need to worry. Do they really think we are either too stupid or totally controlled by their propaganda, or is their surreality bubble so beyond flawed that they've lost sight of reality?




Takket

(21,564 posts)
11. amazing Mensch keeps landing this huge stories when no one else in the media has any idea
Sat May 13, 2017, 10:26 PM
May 2017

after Trump is impeached I look forward to finding out the truth bout JFK and moon landing too. Sources are saying!

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
14. Great to have intel informants and be a conduit for British Intel.
Sat May 13, 2017, 10:34 PM
May 2017

And once you are the go-to person, other informants contact you first. Plus, she has built a collective of researchers who are collaborating online and they benefit from each others work.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
60. Not only is that indefensible, but he is too.
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:42 PM
May 2017

But at least now he can take the bar, become a lawyer, and defend himself.

Leghorn21

(13,524 posts)
67. Oui oui! Why, just look how quickly he learnt allllll about "healthcare" in a matter of a couple of
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:57 PM
May 2017

weeks! He could tack up his attorney shingle in no time! "Says who?" - see, nothin to it!

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
17. I missed linking this thread before it closed, but the Mensch trolls were there right away.
Sat May 13, 2017, 10:39 PM
May 2017

Do they live under a bridge in Moscow, watching American social media non-stop?

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
22. Well, it's Saturday night, so I'm guessing at some point they'll call it a prank
Sat May 13, 2017, 10:51 PM
May 2017

and delete these.

 

Comrade Donald

(66 posts)
103. Botnets give me shade
Sun May 14, 2017, 11:08 AM
May 2017

They are passionate about my...innocence.

I take names, and pay bigly for their loyalty.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
62. Locking. Well, Raw Story isn't good enough for DU, I guess.
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:51 PM
May 2017

But this time we got a link to this thread

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
71. Well, I wonder what happened. Maybe they've had a Raw Story or two before!
Sun May 14, 2017, 12:02 AM
May 2017

No doubt we'll get more trolls over there.

anneboleyn

(5,611 posts)
117. WHY THE HELL was that thread locked? DUers link to RawStory all the time. The Mensch trolls are out!
Mon May 15, 2017, 11:03 AM
May 2017

For some reason the Mensch grump-a-lump trolls show up in force every single weekend nowadays, especially Saturdays, contribute nothing positive (imho of course -- their threads are just filled with depressing posts about how our thinking is worthless and their threads contain nothing helpful or constructive -- constructive posts include analyses or ideas for any action such as calling one's congress critter or senator, sending emails and listing email addresses so that we can contact various officials, etc). They seem to have zero faith in the simple and true notion that DUers are capable of reading, and evaluating for themselves, material from sources like Mensch's twitter feed without losing all contact with reality 🙄

I also have noticed the total doom and gloom outlook of the weekend crowd: the anti-Mensch "concern trolls" bray like eeyore about how all of the DUers and dems in general just need to stop talking about impeachment (!) and give up when it comes to Trump being impeached or even held accountable in some serious way for his traitorous behavior. Some of them seem to do anything they can to shit on her credibility (the old "poisoning the well" fallacy) and scold us in very pedantic ways about how we shouldn't believe "everything we read on the internet" (sigh) -- because, you know, DUers are not capable of rational thought and basic reading comprehension AMD the ability to remain sceptical about a source and to evaluate it carefully, in context.

Anyway I am resorting more to "ignore" these days than I ever did in the past -- but I just feel that the negativity is not helpful and we really need positive, constructive energy right now -- not to mention the fact the Trump's people paid a gazillion Russian trolls. They weren't all just Russian of course but many were/are Russian, and they all were to fight anyone online who made a negative remark against their god in addition to attacking pro-left online sources and trying to bury websites that supported Hillary or Bernie. They had a strategy to bury the pro-left sites and YouTube channels and raise the pro-Donald sites by giving them exponentially more hits through various forms of trickery.

I mean my god the subreddit on reddit that is devoted to Donald Trump, well, just don't go there - "The Donald" worship and of course drooling over Ivanka and Melania is unreal on there. Comical even, the most absurd spin and absurdist political theater that would make Brecht turn over in his grave, like Baghdad Bob. The site's silly graphics look like something someone designed in North Korea. I think a lot of the subreddit posters are Russian paid posters, seriously, since one of the reddit employees noticed various odd discrepancies that wouldn't show up in a "normal" Reddit account. They also word their comments very strangely at times; they are not likely native English speakers. Apparently too it's been said that they put posts through google translator.

Anyway, apologies for the rant!!! There were a bunch of "I am sooooooo concerned about Louise Mensch and poor, gullible, DUers" threads yesterday and it was really bothering me. And now I don't understand why the thread w/the link to RawStory was locked.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
21. I just switched to them after watching Woodward and Bernstein for forty years.
Sat May 13, 2017, 10:49 PM
May 2017
You sure have bad timing.

renegade000

(2,301 posts)
23. Hopefully something will come of this soon to confirm or refute...
Sat May 13, 2017, 10:53 PM
May 2017

Some commentators on their twitter feed have dismissed it as ipso facto false because the FISA court doesn't issue indictments.

Of course, nothing to say that given extraordinary circumstances, like say, the president on tape colluding with hostile foreign powers to subvert the law/democratic process, they couldn't impanel a special grand jury and issue a sealed indictment. I mean the courts have thrown their weight around before on occasion (e.g. Marbury v Madison).

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
32. Their sources have been good in the past, so I'd be more positive about this.
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:05 PM
May 2017

Something had to break. One has to wonder if Trump already was served and knew this when he fired Comey. When did Trump lawyer up?

cstanleytech

(26,291 posts)
38. Even the best journalists get it wrong, sometimes on accident and sometimes its done to take them
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:10 PM
May 2017

out of the picture like Dan Rather.
I'm not saying I wouldnt be thrilled if its true though just that until its confirmed that I wouldnt get your hopes up.
Edit: And firing Comey wouldnt do much as the real power is Congress and only they have the power to impeach him and if they refuse I dont see any case likely to go forward against Trump.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,683 posts)
30. FISA courts don't issue indictments, folks. Their power is limited to
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:02 PM
May 2017

evaluating requests for surveillance of foreign personnel under the FISA act. Grand juries produce indictments under the oversight of an ordinary federal district court. I don't want to be a party pooper, but there are no indictments of anybody coming from a FISA court.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,683 posts)
48. I can find no authority in the FISA act that says FISA courts
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:26 PM
May 2017

can empanel grand juries. They supervise requests for surveillance, period. It is possible that one of the 11 federal judges who sit on the FISA court convened a grand jury in his or her capacity as a regular federal district judge. I don't know who Andrew C. Laufer, Esq., is, but I think he's wrong on this.

renegade000

(2,301 posts)
34. I agree caution is in order.
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:06 PM
May 2017

But theoretically what would prevent the FISA court from simply impaneling its own grand jury and generating a sealed indictment? Just precedence?

cstanleytech

(26,291 posts)
42. As long as he is President and Congress refuses to impeach would any indictment even do any good
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:14 PM
May 2017

other than of course being useful for rallying Democratic voters around for the next 10+ years?

renegade000

(2,301 posts)
45. You're right about that.
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:20 PM
May 2017

Some actual incriminating evidence is going to need to leak in order for the GOP to really start abandoning ship. Of course, every breath that the administration has to waste decrying "fake news" is at least time that they can't spend on their agenda.

cstanleytech

(26,291 posts)
47. I think you could have video tape proof of him selling the nuclear codes to Russia and the Repugants
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:26 PM
May 2017

would still not vote to impeach.
No, if we want our government back then we need to really focus on Congress and the state level offices as well especially in states where the party in control can setup the districts.
Thats really the only way we have to blunt him due to the restrictions on how many votes it would take to impeach Trump which the Democrats have no chance of obtaining until 2020 at the earliest and even then its unlikely to happen.

renegade000

(2,301 posts)
51. Well I agree with people doing what they can locally being of prime importance...
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:30 PM
May 2017

But it's going to be a lot easier to for us to make progress politically if we're operating in an environment where the GOP is covering for someone who is in serious trouble with the law.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,683 posts)
57. There are specific, detailed rules governing the procedures for federal grand juries.
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:40 PM
May 2017

There's no reason for a FISA court to convene a grand jury because (a) the FISA courts' job is only to decide whether to issue FISA warrants for surveillance; and (b) all of the judges who sit on the FISA court are also regular federal judges whose powers include the convening of grand juries under Rule 6 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
59. Lack of legal authority to do so. This story is absolutely false.
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:42 PM
May 2017

I don't know whether it is some deliberate troll of this journalist or not, but if it is, it proves that said journalist is too stupid to use wikipedia.

On its face, it is impossible.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
65. Article III
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:54 PM
May 2017

The powers of any federal court are defined by specific legislation that creates the court. The FISA court has no such power.

It is not a question of precedent. It is a question of their statutory jurisdiction.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,605 posts)
43. Fool me once, shame on Fitzmas, fool me twice
Sat May 13, 2017, 11:14 PM
May 2017

Well, I won't get fooled again.

We all want Trump impeached; if and when an indictment is unsealed, I will join the celebrations, but for now, color me skeptical.

I propose there be a sub forum General Discussion: Unsubstantiated Rumors.

spiderpig

(10,419 posts)
73. +2 Would that it would be true
Sun May 14, 2017, 12:21 AM
May 2017

and I have to hope it will be.

But I got burned by Fitzmas and will be ever skeptical until I see it with my own eyes.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
90. Celebrating the first Comey Day/Saturday Night Massacre
Sun May 14, 2017, 09:03 AM
May 2017

They aren't the only ones! But one clown certainly isn't.




L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
75. Clearly FISA convened grand jury which issued indictment. Happy Comey Day.
Sun May 14, 2017, 12:28 AM
May 2017





Louise Mensch "I would like to wish @FBI a very happy #ComeyDay and thank Federal prosecutors and judges for their work"


 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
76. Is Comey Day going to be one of those ones which is always Monday?
Sun May 14, 2017, 12:32 AM
May 2017


Or is it going to be a fixed-date holiday like Fitzmas?

enid602

(8,616 posts)
77. RICO
Sun May 14, 2017, 12:32 AM
May 2017

"While it is understood that the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution means that, until Mr. Trump is impeached, he cannot be prosecuted. . ." What about asset seizure.? That would be a bit embarrassing for him. Just saying, it is a RICO Grand Jury; such juries generally produce indictments, and they generally seize assets.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
80. If the grand jury was conveyed by the FISA court, it is likely a NatSec case.
Sun May 14, 2017, 12:50 AM
May 2017

My first suspicion is related to Mike Flynn and the Russians, Logan Act violations

18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
79. If the FBI wanted to really get rid of Trump
Sun May 14, 2017, 12:48 AM
May 2017

And they could find enough on at least 22 gop congressman to indct them and give Dems the majority in the house, wouldn't that be far more effective?

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
81. NOT having citizen-grand juries is the whole POINT of the FISC courts
Sun May 14, 2017, 12:52 AM
May 2017

That way the Feds don't have to share classified information with twelve random jurors who couldn't figure out how to get out of jury duty.

Maybe the dynamic duo are confusing a grand jury indictment based on information gathered under a FISA warrant?

Maybe it's an intentional leak designed to ferret out who's been leaking to them?

Maybe they're phonies or crackheads or something?

I'm optimistic, but not hopeful.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
89. Have you forgotten the FBI Directoer James Comey verified her earlier exclusive reporting.
Sun May 14, 2017, 09:00 AM
May 2017

I can understand if you job is to post negative stuff, but I don't understand if you don't actually understand.




Read this thread if you want to understand:

Trump's New Impeachable Offenses: Obstruction of Justice, Conspiracy, Abuse of Power
 

Foamfollower

(1,097 posts)
95. He did no such thing!
Sun May 14, 2017, 10:18 AM
May 2017

HE said something that vaguely resembled some of her bullshit and she declared victory!

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
91. Would this indictment in some way force Congress to act?
Sun May 14, 2017, 09:33 AM
May 2017

Republicans would be ignoring a criminal indictment of Trump at their peril. We don't have all the details yet, but there are apparently others named in the indictment who may plead guilty or be found guilty, and their trials may proceed apace even if the sitting president isn't brought into the court trying others under the same indictment, effectively producing the situation of a known criminal as sitting President. If the Republican Party chooses to ignore a criminal as their leader, they will be voted out en masse.


L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
92. Manafort and Flynn, others under sealed indictment.
Sun May 14, 2017, 09:42 AM
May 2017

This news provides a lot more insight. This is likely a Logan Act violation given Flynn is indicted too.




Louise Mensch? "... major thanks going out to FINCEN and all the NOC and intelligence agents working this case"
MikeFarb? @mikefarb1 11h11 hours ago

Mike Farb "By the way it is Red Wine for an Impeachment."


L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
111. Subpoenas issued for Flynn associates by the Grand Jury indicting Trump, Manafort, Flynn, and others
Sun May 14, 2017, 09:03 PM
May 2017

Rosenstein and Boente already met with Senate Intel last week, so they already know Trump is indicted. The process is unfolding apace. Given these circumstances and trump's own admissions, impeachment should follow in due order. Take you pick of crimes to impeach at this point! I'm going with treason and the Logan Act violations will do it. No need to find out who paid the hackers for trump if he sold out the country during the transition.

Trump's New Impeachable Offenses: Obstruction of Justice, Conspiracy, Abuse of Power

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
112. We all want (desperately) for this to be true...
Sun May 14, 2017, 09:14 PM
May 2017

but I think you're counting chickens before they're hatched.

Time will tell.

 

Madam45for2923

(7,178 posts)
96. If Trump had released his taxes and was not hiding his collusions we would not need speculation.
Sun May 14, 2017, 10:21 AM
May 2017

If Trump had released his taxes and was not hiding his collusions we would not need speculation.

and if MSM was doing a proper job uncovering this MESS we are in... we would not need to speculate.

We would already have most questions answered.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
104. How soon did Trump start obstructing justice?
Sun May 14, 2017, 11:15 AM
May 2017

Obama did not try "to get rid of Dana Boente" who he appointed to his job. Obama only changed the order of Justice Department succession. Was this because Boente was too busy investigating Trump, Manafort, Flynn, and the rest of the Russia connections?
Did Trump fall for a brilliant Obama chess move which Obama didn't even know was a chess move?

Wiki: He was nominated by President Barack Obama on October 8, 2015, and confirmed by the United States Senate on December 15, 2015, as the 60th U.S. Attorney for the EDVA.[10] He was appointed by President Donald Trump as Acting Attorney General on January 30, 2017, after Acting Attorney General Sally Yates was dismissed by Trump earlier that evening.[11]





https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/01/19/2017-01487/providing-an-order-of-succession-within-the-department-of-justice

.... the following officers, in the order listed, shall act as and perform the functions and duties of the office of Attorney General, during any period in which the Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, the Associate Attorney General, and any officers designated by the Attorney General pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 508 to act as Attorney General have died, resigned, or otherwise become unable to perform the functions and duties of the office of Attorney General, until such time as at least one of the officers mentioned above is able to perform the functions and duties of that office:
(a) United States Attorney for the District of Columbia;
(b) United States Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois; and
(c) United States Attorney for the Central District of California.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
105. Flynn-associate subpoenas were issued by Dana Boente, EDVA US Atty who succeeded Yates
Sun May 14, 2017, 11:51 AM
May 2017

Trump issued an executive order March 31st such that the USA for EDNC is second in succession after Boente, currently John Stuart Bruce, an unconfirmed Obama appointee in an acting capacity. So, the office becomes vacant soon and Trump can appoint anyone he likes. Interesting how Trump is scheming to consolidate power and/or control the investigations into himself.

beaglelover

(3,469 posts)
106. Louise Mensch is becoming the left's Alex Jones.
Sun May 14, 2017, 01:07 PM
May 2017

I won't hold my breath waiting for this news to be proven true.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
126. How long did you hold your breath after Mensch's pre-election FISA report.
Mon May 15, 2017, 03:29 PM
May 2017

Until Comey testified this year? You're probably still blue (pun intended.)

FBI has FISA warrant for Trump secret server connected to Russia.

You may not need to hold your breath quite as long this time:


L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
107. Empty Wheel weights in on Special Counsel: Boente Is the Best Short Term Solution.
Sun May 14, 2017, 01:08 PM
May 2017
The Last USA: Dana Boente Is the Best Short Term Solution
May 12, 2017 by emptywheel

In the wake of the Comey firing, particularly given the way Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein let himself serve as a pawn, many people have renewed their call for “a special prosecutor.” In the short term, however, I believe Dana Boente — that is, the status quo — is a better solution.

As a reminder, Dana Boente is the US Attorney of Eastern District of VA. With Rosenstein’s confirmation as DAG, Boente is the last remaining confirmed US Attorney in the United States. Boente’s office is overseeing at least two parts of the Russian investigation: the generalized investigation into Wikileaks, and the investigation into Trump’s campaign. The latter investigation recently issued subpoenas to Mike Flynn associates. There are reportedly parts of the investigation in three other places: some work being done in Main Justice, as well a a team investigating Guccifer 2.0/Shadow Brokers in San Francisco, and a team investigating the Russian hackers in Pittsburgh.

But the bulk of what people think of as “the Russian investigation” — the investigation into Trump’s cronies — is happening in EDVA, overseen by The Last USA.

In addition to reporting up to Rosenstein as DAG and Rosenstein as Acting AG for the Russian investigation, Boente just took over as Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security Division — the office that reviews things like FISA orders. That means Boente — for better and worse — has more authority, on several levels, than a “Special Counsel” would have. ........

While I think it is permissible to hire someone from outside of DOJ to do that job ..........



WoonTars

(694 posts)
108. Yawn....
Sun May 14, 2017, 01:25 PM
May 2017

Wake me up when something from that Thatcher fan pans out will you? Meanwhile, I'm going to keep updating my Fitzmas list...

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
109. "No one is above the law, not a high public official, not even the highest public official." Boente
Sun May 14, 2017, 03:41 PM
May 2017




New attorney general says he’ll enforce President Trump’s travel ban
AP Jan 31, 2017 .... Dana Boente, the US Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, was named Monday by President Trump to replace Sally Yates as acting attorney general. ........... Boente promptly ordered Justice Department lawyers to ‘‘do our sworn duty and to defend the lawful orders of our President.’’


onenote

(42,700 posts)
115. I'm getting whiplash reading about Dana Boente's role in this
Mon May 15, 2017, 08:44 AM
May 2017

On the one hand, he's a Trump toady which explains why Trump reinstated him at the top of the AG succession line and why Sessions named him to head up the Russian investigation. On other hand, he apparently is a crusading independent-minded prosecutor who allegedly has been seeking (and obtained) indictments against Trump, Sessions and more than five dozen other individuals.

Maybe its just me, but isn't it unlikely that both of those things are true?

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
125. I read a theory that Obama's firing of Boente might have been a head fake.
Mon May 15, 2017, 03:25 PM
May 2017

Intended to make him attractive to Trump. And Like a brainless ant, Trump eagerly took the poisoned bait into the nest.

No idea if it's true, but it's a cool theory. I wouldn't put it past the 3-D Chess master.

Did the Obama Administration Try Stacking the Deck Against Trump at the Justice Department?

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
120. RICO case against ***the entire GOP*** Reince Priebus is on tape, sources say
Mon May 15, 2017, 01:24 PM
May 2017




THREAD 1. I can confirm in the next 48-72 hrs arrest warrants
2. Will be drawn for 6 individuals related to this fuckery we currently call government. 4 will result from grand juries from SDNY. 2. from
3. EDVA. I cannot reveal any names so DONT ASK. #OPSEC my childrens. They are prominent names. It's not a matter of IF but when. It's a bit
4. of a logistical issue for those involved, and continuity. There are others in the pipeline. Many others, in the teens. Anyone who's been
5. A Fed will tell you we snatch the smallest of fishies first, flip them if we can & work up the chain. Think asymmetrical warfare AGAIN.
6. POTUS Fat Kid goes wheels up tomorrow. Divide, isolate his cabal. Wreak havoc from within. Contact, close with, & destroy the enemy. It's
7. Going to be a rough couple of weeks for these cats as reality starts to set in. ............
...............

Oneironaut

(5,493 posts)
121. Lol yeah right. 😂
Mon May 15, 2017, 02:04 PM
May 2017

This is all bullshit. It's almost Pizzagate-like in its level of fiction.

"I cannot reveal names" Riiiight...

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
122. Broadsword_Six is swinging for the fence.
Mon May 15, 2017, 02:10 PM
May 2017

Coming in low for a gun pass...
#BRRRRRRT

Gotta love it!

onenote

(42,700 posts)
129. What does it even mean to say a RICO case is being brought against the "entire" GOP?
Mon May 15, 2017, 03:51 PM
May 2017

Against the RNC? As an organization or against the 150 or so members of the RNC? Against Priebus as head of the RNC (at the time)? Against every registered republican in the country?


L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
123. dKos diary: About that Trump indictment story... By claireducky
Mon May 15, 2017, 03:18 PM
May 2017
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/5/14/1662319/-About-that-Trump-indictment-story

.... FISA was never mentioned in the report by Mensch and Taylor. The FISA kerfuffle resulted from Taylor’s incorrect tweet, which he later corrected. All that aside, evidence gathered via a FISA warrant could be theoretically used by a grand jury convened within another court to issue an indictment, so it’s a rather moot point.
The Supremacy Clause

Next, let’s unpack the meaning of the second part of Mensch/Taylor’s brief article, which mentions the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution. The Supremacy Clause establishes “federal preemption”—that is, federal laws, treaties, and regulations generally preempt any related state or local laws/regulations. It doesn’t have anything to do with the arrest, impeachment, or prosecution of a sitting president. So while Mensch and Taylor are mostly right about the President’s constitutional privileges when it comes to criminal charges, the Supremacy Clause doesn’t enter into it.

Law professor Susan Low Bloch of Georgetown University authored a paper addressing this issue in 1997—“Can We Indict a Sitting President?” In 1998, Bloch testified before the House Judiciary Committee on impeachable offenses, and she later testified before the Senate on whether a sitting president could be indicted and tried. The question itself is a sticky one, which has many possible legal interpretations. On its face, Section 3, Article I of the Constitution suggests that impeachment must occur before any subsequent indictment, as asserted by Mensch and Taylor: .............





 

SoCalMusicLover

(3,194 posts)
132. Is This Before Or After The Karl Rove Indictments?
Mon May 15, 2017, 05:21 PM
May 2017

I'm not going to hold my breath on ANYTHING happening to Drumpf or his minions.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
133. EXCLUSIVE: U.S Marshals Service Readying in #TrumpRussia case
Tue May 16, 2017, 12:36 PM
May 2017



I love the irony of the quote in bold below. Pigs find truffles they cannot see underground using their sense of smell. Whether or not the pig can see is irrelevant, someone is directing the pig where to smell. So, right off, we know we have a writer who gets things wrong writing that another writer gets things wrong. The need for vigilance in distinguishing real journalism from “fake news” is well established indeed.

New fake news dilemma: sites publish real scoops amid mess of false reports
16 May 2017 11.39 EDT
Louise Mensch is among a number of bloggers offering a mix of true and inaccurate stories, forcing readers to discern for truth for themselves

The need for vigilance in distinguishing real journalism from “fake news” has become well established since Donald Trump was elected with help from bogus online stories.

But readers are now being confronted with an even tougher challenge: decoding the work of writers whose track records of faulty reporting are occasionally interrupted by stories that are actually true.

The trait has appeared among pro- and anti-Trump writers alike, as bloggers on each side of a chaotic political crisis mix information from knowledgeable insiders with wild allegations about their opponents.

Media experts said readers should remain on guard.

“Even a blind pig finds a truffle once in a while,” said Kathleen Culver, director of the University of Madison-Wisconsin’s Center for Journalism Ethics. .......


L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
134. Marshal Order of Execution began yesterday - search and seizure in 10 locations
Thu May 18, 2017, 02:53 PM
May 2017

1. The MOE (Marshal Order of Execution) began yesterday afternoon (confirmed by NBC) is search and seizure in 10 physical locations in three
2. three jurisdictions. Aimed at documents, servers, computers, hard drives, telephones etc.










Latest Discussions»General Discussion»EXCLUSIVE: Sealed Indictm...