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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs Pence even any better than Trump?
Let's say that we successfully get rid of the trumpster fire. Is evangelical true believer Pence really any better? My best case scenario is that Trump simply becomes a total lame duck for the next 3 3/4 years and nothing whatsoever gets done.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)luvMIdog
(2,533 posts)Jno_Gilmor_
(127 posts)shraby
(21,946 posts)cyclonefence
(4,483 posts)because Pence knows how the game is played. He doesn't command the rabid loyalty of the bottom-feeders like Trump does, and he probably would not be able to be elected on his own in 2020, but he might be able to get the Republican agenda underway. IMO, what we want--what I want--even more than seeing Trump removed from office is to take Trumpcare, protection of racist police departments, massive tax cuts for the wealthy, "voter fraud" "corrections", destruction of environmental protections, continued cruel deportations, etc. off the table. We can do this with Trump in office because he has paralyzed the Republican party. Pence, not so much.
elleng
(131,107 posts)Sorry to be lighthearted on this not light subject. It is a problem, but I'd rather not have an emotionally unstable person at the head, and I suspect pence won't go far once/if he's in the w.h.
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)We are going to have to be vigilant and fight all his right-wingery. He is not normal--- and he was selected, not elected!
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)make him easier to get rid of when the time comes.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)to sign disastrous bills into law that will harm everyone who isn't a part of the elites in this country - and beyond.
JHan
(10,173 posts)more attention paid to the changes Republicans are doing right now in "secret" while Russiagate sucks up air.
womanofthehills
(8,761 posts)JHan
(10,173 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)He is less likely to start WWIII because he thought some head of state insulted him, so that would be an improvement. On the other hand, because he seems relatively sane (at least compared to Dolt 45), he might be considered more credible, and thus possibly more dangerous regarding domestic legislation. His focus will be on social issues favored by the fundie crowd (i.e., making life as miserable as possible for women, LGBT people and minorities) more than on economic issues - I think he'd even give up tax cuts for the rich if he could get rid of same sex marriage and abortion.
What I think might happen if SCROTUS is impeached or resigns and Pence becomes president is that Pence will carry Trump's stench with him. Pence might not have been actively involved in Trump's shenanigans - he seems to have made a point of knowing as little as possible (but this, too, remains to be seen), but even so, if Trump departs in disgrace Pence could remain under that cloud of suspicion. When Nixon resigned, Ford's popularity was pretty high, but nobody ever thought he had anything to do with Watergate (he became VP in October of 1973 after Agnew resigned, and just before shit got real with the Saturday Night Massacre). Pence, in contrast, has been with Trump since last summer and was part of the transition process, so he can't completely divorce himself from the mess even if he didn't actively participate in it. And Ford's popularity crashed when he pardoned Nixon, which probably cost him the 1976 election. That's something else for Pence to think about.
If Pence is weakened by whatever happens to Trump, it's likely the GOP will be weak as well, which means they won't have much luck pushing their agenda. So as bad as Pence might be if he were able to retain some credibility, his association with Trump might make that unlikely.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,198 posts)Pence is awful in his politics but less likely to get us into a major war or dictatorship.
Impeach Trump and Pence will be the lame duck because he'll forever be associated with Trump. It will pay dividends in 2018 and 2020.
Keep Trump in and god knows what he'll have done to us by 2020.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)trump is dangerous and erratic and must be removed now to prevent immediate damage.
J_William_Ryan
(1,756 posts)because Pence is not insane and is aware of how government works.
Indeed, Pence would pursue the same failed, wrongheaded rightwing agenda harmful to working Americans, to low income Americans, to the disabled, children, and retired Americans.
Pence would also seek to appoint conservative ideologues to the Federal courts and justices to the Supreme Court hostile to the Framers mandate that church and state be separate, hostile to the privacy rights of women, the equal protection rights of gay and transgender Americans, the voting rights of minorities, and the due process rights of immigrants.
Trump isnt the problem, conservatives and their hateful, reactionary dogma is the problem.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Hell if we take the Congress back we can impeach him in 2018.
JI7
(89,264 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)Motley13
(3,867 posts)but he is a religious nut against everything but his narrow beliefs.
He has Russian connections so I hope we can get rid of him too,
Hayduke Bomgarte
(1,965 posts)He wants much of what drumpf wants and actually has a clue about how to maneuver within government.
MedusaX
(1,129 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,706 posts)Pence is an ideologue who wants to turn the country into a Dominionist Theocracy.
Trump doesn't really believe in anything beyond lining his own pockets.
Different kind of evil, maybe, but still evil.
DFW
(54,437 posts)From what has been emerging, though, it is looking like Pence is anything but clean-handed. If he has any sense of self-preservation (and he may not), he may well resign ("in solidarity," who cares what the reason?) along with Moby Donald if and when he goes down.
manicraven
(901 posts)They both lie and are harmful to minorities, the poor, the middle class, our Constitution... They both need to go. tRump is more volatile and unpredictable, though, plus seemingly mentally ill, so I'd say he's the greater danger.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Doreen
(11,686 posts)WinstonSmith00
(228 posts)There is no way Trump will go quietly he will take them all down with him.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)He doesn't have Trump's lunatic bravado but since he's already got the world's attention he doesn't need it. I think getting rid of Trump will make 2020 much more difficult than if Trump the trouble magnet stays.
yortsed snacilbuper
(7,939 posts)so, he'll screw in the lord$ name.
Luciferous
(6,085 posts)kairos12
(12,872 posts)Solly Mack
(90,785 posts)Don't allow anyone to sell you on Pence as being one whit better. Neither is Ryan; and I don't care who he was friends with - neither is Hatch.
The entire line of succession is one big fuck you very much, America!
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)We could do that what ifs until the cows come home.
The OP has a whiff of "why bother?" which doesn't seem particularly constructive.