Round Two in my battle with the furry little chompers of my herbs

[Siwsan]

I really want to get the potted herbs back outside, but don't want to risk them being turned into a salad bar. (Why they ate the potted oregano, and not the planted oregano is a mystery.)

I figure the groundhogs might not be TOO bright, so I put a plaster peacock and pheasant in the middle of the herbs. Hopefully they will seem them as predator birds, and stay away. So far, although I've seen them hanging around my neighbor's house, I've not seen them back in my yard.

My bro is bringing me a 'live' trap, this weekend.

[img][/img]

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Best of luck in your battle with the furry little chompers!

[NickB79]

2. FYI, groundhogs are good eating!

Right up there with squirrel and rabbit

http://www.motherearthnews.com/real-food/groundhog-day-groundhog-recipes

[Siwsan]

4. My friend saw one of the parents, yesterday, and said it is massive

I'll leave these critters to the local hawks and falcons. If I could figure out a way to tip them off about the potential for some good eats, I'd definitely do it!

[gordianot]

5. I tried that but I am not too keen on squirrel or ground hog.

Hasenpfeffer is pretty good.

[athena]

8. So much cruelty in this thread.

It makes me sick.

[Doremus]

40. My thoughts exactly.

Some humans are so vicious.

[snooper2]

104. We are horrible, I just finished eating part of a chicken a bit ago

[Doremus]

116. I hope you feel better now.

Thanks for the meaningful post.

[Hortensis]

46. Well, the very best way to keep critters from your veggies

is to KEEP THEM FROM DISCOVERING THEY'RE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. On AVERAGE, deer, for instance, need only 3 tries to discover scary things are harmless.

Sustainable living is a wonderful goal. So, kill those who've found the garden, stew them up IN PLACE OF SUPERMARKET PURCHASES (cruelty lessening cruelty), and design barriers, hedges, fences, and alarms, mowing a band down as a foodless "moat," grading as needed, whatever the terrain calls for, to keep new critters from discovering nirvana -- and to keep them and the garden safe as long as you can keep it up.

For insects, fungi, molds, etc., hiding the garden won't work for, one could at least note the advice of an elderly farmer here in Georgia with its soup-like summer air. When I asked him how they on earth managed to feed their families before modern agents, he smiled andtold me they just planted enough "for them and us." Long, hard, even backbreaking work for all ages, but realistic for the era.

[Warpy]

54. You've never had a bunch of hairy lawnmowers chew your whole garden down to soil

which they can easily do in a night or two.

I'd rather relocate them if possible but sometimes when there are a lot of kits, it's not possible. I buried a fence a foot deep to keep them out. and sprayed everything near the fence with a strong cayenne solution.

Trust me, when they go through your garden and destroy hard work in the hot sun, your thoughts will turn to murder, also.

[WinkyDink]

60. Dried blood.

[NickB79]

57. If you eat meat, hunting your own is the least cruel way to get it

Even the best free range, organic farms cause more cruelty that a single, well-placed bullet.

[athena]

72. I agree, but I don't eat animals.

I'm 99% plant-based. I make an exception for a bit of cheese every two weeks or so, and for situations when I go out and there is no vegan option available, in which case I get the vegetarian option. I haven't had meat, poultry, or fish in over four years.

If one insists on eating animals, the only honest way to do it is to kill and dismember the animal oneself. But it's still cruel. If you watch animals for any length of time -- even squirrels -- you realize they're much more like us than most people like to believe.

[NickB79]

101. I'd go vegetarian, but someone on this thread told us vegetable gardening is also cruel

Unless you build a veritable bunker around your garden to keep the animals out.

[athena]

103. Your dietary choices are between you and your own conscience.

I don't care a whit whether you choose to eat defenseless animals. It's interesting that you feel the need to defend your own choices by ridiculing made-up arguments that no one has made. Neither cruelty, nor intellectual dishonesty are traits I care for. Welcome to ignore.

[lastlib]

66. No--they're greasier than a Trump cabinet meeting with Eric and Junior!

My grandmother cooked one at a family gathering once, and couldn't pour the grease off fast enough! or often enough. When it was cooked, nobody liked it enough to eat more than a few bites of it. It really was horrible, and I like most game--but this was like eating lard.

Do. Not. Partake. My two cts.

[NickB79]

102. Funny, my grandfather raved about groundhog as a kid

There wasn't a lot of game to hunt in the 1930's (this was when deer and ducks were practically an endangered species from overhunting), so rabbit, squirrel and groundhog were what they brought home. He said he'd go out with his .22 rifle before dawn, shoot and gut one, and my great-grandmother would fry it up like pork steak, with fresh eggs and homemade hashbrowns for breakfast.

Although, I think our tastes have changed over the years, because fatty meats were highly sought after back then. Lean pork and beef was a sign of a bad farmer, whereas a heavily marbled chop was a thing of beauty. You'd need all those calories to do the back-breaking farmwork of the day.

[roamer65]

97. Yuck.

[gordianot]

3. You are truly a kind person.

Good luck on trapping.

[Siwsan]

6. If my bro had his way, he'd be over here, armed and ready

I know these little guys are just trying to survive so I'd rather give them a nice big field, full of stuff to eat. Although I wouldn't cry if the local raptors came by to thin the herd. A hawk has got to eat, too, and I'd rather they eat a groundhog than song birds.

[gordianot]

11. In the last year I trapped 26+ possums only 4 this year.

Possums eat just about anything. My friend superintendent at a local park even has a designated dumping area for my squirrels and possums across the river.

[Siwsan]

15. I've never seen a possum, in this area

There is a heavily wooded area, across a busy road, so maybe that contains them.

[gordianot]

31. Possums are tick eating machines.

The renter on my pasture told me about shooting possums. I showed him the research which he never heard before, it significantly changed his view of possums. I may catch them in town but never on the farm. For the most part they carry the family with them by the time they leave the nursery they can fend for themselves.

[athena]

7. It's cruel and heartless to terrorize groundhogs.

They're intelligent and lovely animals who, unlike humans, don't eat other animals and don't harm anyone. It's self-centered of humans to first plant things that groundhogs like, and then trap the poor animals and drop them off far away from the home they've worked hard to build, in the middle of another animal's territory, in a situation that will probably end up killing them.

If you want a garden, build it inside a small, fenced-in box that animals can't enter. Don't terrorize the poor animals because they happen to live in your neighborhood.

I think this world would be a much better place if humans could stop being so obsessed with their own desire to dominate the world and realize that we share the world with other sentient beings, many of whom are much kinder than we are.

[Siwsan]

12. Oh for pities sake!

My veg garden IS fenced in, and they burrow beneath the fence.

Why don't I also tear down my house, because this used to be farm land and before that was likely full of deer. Unfortunately, this part of Michigan is pretty bereft of caves, so that's not an option and I'd likely have to 'relocate' what ever was living there, too. Maybe live in a tree? Wait! There's BIRDS in them there trees.

And BTW, I have trees FULL of fruit that I don't spray because I know they are going to eat their fill of the windfall.

[athena]

16. You could build a groundhog proof fence if you cared.

http://www.clevelandseniors.com/home/woodchuck.htm

But no, just attack those who don't agree with you that trapping a poor animal, forcing it to spend a miserable night, and then dropping him in an area he's totally unfamiliar with, is the "kind" thing to do.

And I strongly disagree with your statement that songbirds are somehow worthier than groundhogs. The least worthy animal on this Earth -- the one that makes every other animal's life miserable because he is so focused on his own needs and on no one else's -- is the human.

[Siwsan]

18. Apparently you have never dealt with groundhogs.

Your agenda, noble as it may be, is not mine. And you really need to work on your sense of humor. Not everything has to become a pissing point.

[athena]

29. There is no humor in making poor defenseless animals suffer.

I have not "dealt with" a groundhog because I have chosen not to have a vegetable garden. We have plenty of groundhogs on our property. Over the years, we have enjoyed watching them through our kitchen window. Indeed, if I didn't know something about groundhogs, I wouldn't be so bothered by the suffering you are causing them.

As for birds and squirrels, which is the other area in which you seem to be exercising your human dominance, the best way to attract birds to your garden is to have a birdbath with clean water in it. This means replacing the water and cleaning the birdbath daily -- easily done in 2-3 minutes a day with a scrubbing brush and a watering pail. And plant some native plants. That's what the birds really want. Bird feeders can spread disease among birds if you don't maintain them properly.

[Hekate]

65. Where, exactly, do you get your food? How do you source it? Any idea how the farmers manage pests?

"Pests" referring, of course, to any and all other living organisms that want to eat the produce before you do.

For starters, I have to assume you eat no animal products, including eggs and milk, due to "cruelty."

You really should research this issue, get in your car (or bicycle, since there's no carbon footprint to worry about) and travel there, be prepared to go out in the fields and interview people.

I wonder if you will find anything left to eat at all that meets your standards.

[athena]

74. The point is to minimize suffering.

I do, indeed, avoid eating animal products. No one who has a conscience can support the factory farming industry, which is where 99% of the animal products at the store come from. I do make an exception for a small amount of cheese every few weeks; I have vegetarian food at restaurants when vegan food is not available; and I use animal products on a smaller scale in certain other areas of my life; but that is only because I have found, through experience, that perfectionism is not possible in a world that is based on exploiting animals. I am aware that I cannot single-handedly end all suffering, but I can certainly reduce it through my own actions.

As for store-bought vegetables, a little thought will show you that the number of groundhogs killed per vegetable has to be much smaller when you have a large farm than when you have a tiny vegetable garden. A groundhog will devour your entire vegetable garden, but no number of groundhogs will be able to devour an entire field of vegetables. They don't live close enough to each other to be able to do that.

The argument that it's OK to torture and kill animals because it's impossible to live without hurting them in some way is a faulty one. By your logic, we should all buy SUVs and waste as much energy as possible because we are not going to be able to stop global warming. I am not going to sit here and watch quietly as people congratulate each other and themselves for trapping animals. The fact is that trapping animals and transporting them to unfamiliar areas, away from their young, is cruel. And I find it very interesting that I have touched such a nerve by merely informing people of this.

[Siwsan]

84. Good night, Athena.

I can't imagine how exhausting that much self-righteousness is to carry through life. I know it's wearing really thin, for me.

[athena]

86. Thanks for the personal attacks.

It's always such a show of strength to ignore a person's substantive remarks and instead insult their personality!

The information that explains exactly why your actions are cruel was posted multiple times in this thread, but you have chosen to ignore it. You are clearly not here to have a discussion. Welcome to ignore.

[alphafemale]

81. Yep. Digging is pretty much their thing.

I can't even fathom how deep you'd have to sink a groundhog proof fence.

Like maybe an actual fathom.

[Siwsan]

83. The garlic has always grown deep enough to be a pretty good barrier

If I can restrain myself from pulling it out!! Once they start digging and get a snoot full of garlic, they tend to give up.

[snooper2]

105. I thought the ostrich was the most useless animal on earth...

[58Sunliner]

45. I completely agree. The problem with trapping is it won't solve the problem and is cruel.

Another will take it's place.

[athena]

77. Exactly!

Humans are not as powerful as we think we are. We think we can grow whatever plants we like, wherever we like, but it's very difficult to win a war against nature. When a whole society gets together to do so, it sometimes succeeds, but as an individual, it's almost always a lost cause. If an animal is eating your vegetables, the solution is to plant something they don't want to eat. If insects are devouring your flowers, the solution is to plant something that resists the insects. I've learned this the hard way, when I tried to grow roses in New Jersey a few years ago and found myself spraying them with toxic fungicides. Now, the roses are gone, and my garden is full of native plants that need almost no maintenance. What's more, the birds, the butterflies, the bees, and all the other animals seem to really enjoy the native plants.

[Manly_Scream]

87. Wait a minute...

How exactly would you *know* what vegetables a an animal doesn't like?

I would think that any WILD animal wouldn't turn down accessible calories, especially not a groundhog, as they go through "bulking seasons" half the year.

Sure, humans and pet animals have that idiosyncracy, but I doubt an animal that eats grass for hours wouldn't partake in any other vegetable.

Except if we're talking about riddichio (which I find inedibly bitter, but again I have no way of knowing if an animal would enjoy that or not)

Not trying to be an asshole, just an honest question.

[athena]

96. Native plants have evolved with the wildlife.

If they were too pleasant to eat, the animals would eat them, and the plant would not be able to survive. Over the millennia, the plants that survived were those that evolved characteristics that made them relatively unpalatable to animals, such as bad taste, bad smell, or low-level toxicity. Having planted native plants in my garden, I've observed that the animals will still eat them, but not to the ground, as they will with exotic plants. Deer, for example, will occasionally eat a few leaves off my American hazelnuts and red-osier dogwoods, but not the way they ate my exotic roses. One has to protect the plant the first year, but once it's developed a solid root system, the animals are not able to destroy them.

Not being a vegetable gardener, I'm guessing that most of what we consider vegetables are probably pretty exotic, but I'm sure that if one looked into what native Americans ate, one would find many species of edible plants that animals aren't all that crazy about.

[Manly_Scream]

100. I once saw a guy on Youtube...

I saw this guy on Youtube that got a groundhog to stop eating his vegetables by giving it white bread & Cheetos to eat...It sticks around for white bread & Cheetos, but doesn't mess with his vegetables now because, well "Why bother?"

Obviously, I know those aren't healthy things to give to any organism, so is the most humane solution a dairy and gluten-free sprouted grain bread to give to them so they get bored of vegetables?

I think groundhogs are cute and have watched videos of them. From what I've seen they friggin LOVE bread, probably due to it's higher caloric density as opposed to vegetables.

I guess this isn't really option for most, as groundhogs are "vermin" in the eyes of the law, and in many states feeding vermin can get you a 500-dollar plus fine.

[Grammy23]

9. We have a hawk in our neighborhood that has been known to haul off small dogs.

However, as we drove back onto our street a while ago, we saw a blue jay run the hawk off of its perch, high in a pine tree. My husband and I got a laugh at the smaller (but not dainty) jaybird chasing the hawk down the street! LOL Never the less, our yard still has more than its share of squirrels, so maybe the hawk finds squirrel too mundane. Or maybe it tastes like chicken???
🐓🐓 🐓🐓🐓

Good luck with your critter issues!

[Siwsan]

13. I have quite a few squirrels but they only seemed focused on the bird feeders

And I actually figured out a pretty good way to squirrel proof those - I poke a hole through a store bought cake cover and hang the feeder beneath it - and that beneath a very hard to access area beneath a pine bough. So far, so good.

[Grammy23]

36. My bird feeders get sucked dry by the squirrels regularly.

Honestly, it looked like the squirrels used a Hoover vacuum cleaner to suck out the seeds! Then one day I came across a feeder at a hardware store called a Squirrel Buster. It is a cylinder that is filled with seeds and has a sleeve that slides down over the cylinder. The weight of most birds is not enough to pull the outer sleeve down over the holes where the seeds come out. But if a squirrel puts so much as a toe on the perches, the outer sleeve slides down making the seeds totally unavailable. That feeder works line a charm. It's funny because it only took a day or two for the squirrels to figure out that they were wasting their time with that feeder.

I got the mini version of the Squirrel Buster, but it comes in several sizes that are bigger. I still put out my old feeder but the squirrels manage to empty it in less than one day while the new one stays pretty full for several days.

Squirrels are determined little critters but I think the Squirrel Buster has them stumped! The outer sleeve is metal, so they can't chew through it either. Yay!

[Siwsan]

37. I should look into one of those, if they ever crack my 'plastic shield' technique

It's empty, right now, because I'm out of birdseed. I know the squirrels aren't getting to anything because the only little perches that are gone are the ones I accidentally broke off. Normally the squirrels gnaw them to bits.

[img][/img]

[NCTraveler]

106. The Blue Jays in my backyard completely run the show this time of year.

They fear nothing and go after anything within thirty feet of their nest. Including my dog. They are very good at turning anything away from their nest.

[maveric]

10. I put an inflatable rattlesnake in my tomato garden. Birds would eat the seeds from fruit.

The birds never bothered them again.

[Siwsan]

14. Hmmm - that's something I hadn't thought of.

Might be a good thing to put inside the garden fence, in the area where they have the most success in burrowing! Thanks!

[CrispyQ]

17. Good luck with your live traps!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1018952901

[Siwsan]

19. I saw that, earlier!

Now, if these guys want to dress up and have a civilized meal with me, well, I think that would be beyond groovy. Unfortunately, I just don't see that happening.

[CrispyQ]

25. I admire your humane attempt!

[Siwsan]

32. Well, I do my best!

Some of my neighbors have had groundhogs burrowing beneath their garden sheds, and it's done a lot of damage.

I do let them feast, to their hearts content, on all of the windfall apples, pears and plums, so I'm not so HORRIBLY cruel, as one person seems to have labeled me!

[athena]

35. It's not humane.

First of all, trapping an animal means terrorizing them for hours at best. When you leave them in a strange place, away from the home they worked hard to build for themselves, you are almost ensuring that they will be captured by a predator. Moreover, if you have one groundhog, you probably have at least five, which means that if you trap a number of them, you are almost certainly sentencing many baby groundhogs to death by starvation.

Moreover, it doesn't work. When you remove groundhogs from an area, more groundhogs will move in within a matter of months if not weeks.

[CrispyQ]

38. Okay. Guess he should just poison them. Or shoot them.

We need to address the real problem, lack of habitat due to human population. Good luck with that. Even on this site, that is a conflicted topic.

[athena]

39. Attacking the messenger is not the solution.

Are you going to attack the Humane Society as well? Here is what they have to say about live traps:

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/resources/tips/scrap_the_trap.html

It's very interesting to me that people on this site are so reluctant to let go of their mistaken views. Trapping wildlife is not humane. That is a fact. No amount of attacking me and my views will change that fact.

[Doremus]

47. Thank you for your efforts

Your posts in this thread are appreciated by at least one other DUer, me. I lack your eloquence and grace under fire so your posts are doubly meaningful.

We have neighborhood critters and enjoy watching them. Learning that possums eat ticks and have a body temperature that discourages rabies gave us a new appreciation for them. The mom had babies, one of which was spotted eating from the bowl of food I place outside for anyone who wants it. That little baby was the cutest thing I've seen in some time and gave us all a pleasant respite for a few minutes. Do you know that birds and deer will also eat from that silly bowl of kibble? They do and it's fascinating to see.

We had a mom groundhog under our shed a few years ago. The babies were equally darling with their running and playing. One day I came home to see that the neighbor had called animal control because they had strayed into their yard. Trapped and gone.

I don't know why some people are so hateful. Some will swerve across the road on purpose to run over a small animal trying to cross. It makes me sick to my stomach.

[athena]

73. Thank you for your kind words.

They really mean a lot to me. I'm glad there is at least one other person out there who feels empathy for animals.

Two years ago, our resident groundhog had babies, and they were adorable. I actually watched two of them play-wrestle outside our window. For days, they helped with the digging of the hole, and later, we saw the mother chase away the juvenile groundhogs to encourage them to make their own homes elsewhere. Then, the following year, we got another juvenile groundhog who apparently had been kicked out of another hole. He looked depressed and forlorn for days.

Three of our neighbors have had groundhogs transported. I've also seen our neighborhood fox catch a baby groundhog and a squirrel. It was very upsetting, but the fox had an excuse: he's a fox and would starve if he didn't hunt.

[Doremus]

117. You're not alone and I suspect we're not the only ones, just not the most vocal

It's comforting to know there are others who understand.

[cwydro]

93. You're not alone.

Many of us do our best to coexist with our furry neighbors.

[appleannie1943]

20. We had to put a fence around our entire garden and then dig around the perimeter and put wood

planking 12 inches deep around the outside of the fence. Now the groundhogs can't get in to eat most of my plants.

[Siwsan]

23. When this garden was put in, about 40 years ago, it was pretty secure

My uncle lined the perimeter with sunken bricks - but for some reason he just did that on 3 sides. Normally I let the garlic grow tall and thick, along the entire fence line. Apparently groundhogs don't like to dig through garlic. Last year I tried to 'pretty up' the fence between my yard and my neighbors. BIG mistake! That's when I discovered it was the one side that wasn't reinforced!!

So now I'm going to re-plant lots of garlic along that whole side. Within a year, or so, the natural barrier should be pretty strong.

[suffragette]

107. You could try a border with mixed alliums. These are the family garlic is in.

Many of them are beautiful and quite a few are tasty, too - well tasty to many people, but not to other critters.

Quite a few options in this article:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/gardening/2007/10/the_bulb_less_planted.html

This one looks really interesting. Haven't planted it before, but might try it if I ever have a yard again.
http://downtoearthgardenclub.org/2015/08/nectaroscordum-siculum-mediterranean-bells/



Garlic chives- yummy and pretty
http://heritagegarden.uic.edu/garlic-chives-allium-tuberosum/

[Siwsan]

108. I am going to boost up the garlic, along the fence line

I tried to pretty things up, last year, and that was a big mistake. Groundhogs don't like to burrow through garlic.

Thanks for the articles! I'll definitely give them a read!

[suffragette]

109. Mixing the garlic with other alliums would give you a tasty and pretty border.

Some more options:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/30/gardens-five-ways-to-use-alliums


Well, now I'm hungry for lunch!

[Siwsan]

110. I was just out checking on the rest of my garlic - it looks to be a really good year

One thing I never worry about is vampires! Groundhogs, yes. The Prince of Darkness - doesn't stand a chance. And, of course, I mean Dracula, and not trump*. Who I hope doesn't stand a chance, either.

[suffragette]

111. Such a yummy way to ward off the evil ones. Garlic bread with a salad is sounding good

right now, especially since it's warming up here these last few days.

[Siwsan]

112. I always look forward to harvest time. It's a lot of work, but definitely worth it

I use a whole lot of garlic in my cooking.

[suffragette]

113. I love garlic. You'd defintely like the garlic chives, then.

[Siwsan]

114. I have those in one of my gardens - they appeared, out of nowhere! Well, maybe out of bird poop!

I wondered what they were!

[suffragette]

115. Then you have a head start on your new border!

[TheBlackAdder]

21. Between squirrels, rabbits and moles--the best bet is a garden box with a chicken wire hinged top.

.

Get the green coated 1/2 inch square mesh and create a narrow 1 foot deep trench around it. Cut the mesh to that thickness and drop it into the trench to keep out the subterranean critters from entering. They mostly don't dig deep holes, except for their homes. It's sort of like how you keep foxes out of chicken coops. You lay 2-3 feet of that mesh under the fencing and foxes try to dig at the cage fence and hit the wire, thus stopping them from burrowing under the coop.

With the mesh on top, it can be coated in wider opening chicken wire, as you will be dealing with larger critters, plus it makes the lids just a little lighter. The garden box will be a wood perimeter, up to the first 8 inches to foot.

.

[Siwsan]

26. I am going to re-grow garlic along the fence line

Any place I have garlic growing, I get zero problem with anything trying to dig through it.

[Blue_true]

22. I spray coyote urine all around.

Keeps rodents and snakes away. Must reapply it every two weeks or after a rain.

[Siwsan]

24. I read that human male urine works, too

Unfortunately, I don't know my neighbor well enough to ask him for a contribution!!

[appleannie1943]

28. We tried that. Had hubby go in a bottle. Problem was, every time it rained it washed it away

[appleannie1943]

27. These are plants you could plant around the outside of your herb garden that would keep them from

smelling the things they like to eat


http://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/centers/private-forests/outreach/pa-forests-web-seminar-center/archive/wildlife-damage-series/groundhogs-the-good-the-bad-and-the-funny/groundhog-resistant-plants-brochure

garlic and lavender are two of them.

[Siwsan]

33. I grow a lot of garlic - maybe I'll relocate some to the herb garden

It grows all along my garden fence line, except for the part I stupidly cleared, last year. Which is where I noticed these little buggers are already starting to dig - nothing in the garden, yet, but they are getting a head start!

I'll be replanting a WHOLE lot of garlic, this Autumn.

[samnsara]

30. get a trail cam or a critter cam so you can watch them...

[Siwsan]

34. My fear is they've already done that, are they are watching me!!

Crafty little critters...

[malaise]

41. Nice herb garden

[Siwsan]

43. I'm working on it!

The thyme and oregano are doing great. The basil was frost burned, but it is rebounding. I want to get some winter savory and marjoram planted. I also have rosemary, cilantro and sage. Unfortunately, basil and rosemary won't winter over so I always keep a few pots going, outside and inside. I love cooking with fresh herbs.

[malaise]

44. My thyme, basil, rosemary are doing fine

the cilantro not so much. Yep nothing like fresh herbs.
I have no winter here

[Siwsan]

49. I always have trouble growing cilantro

But my oregano and thyme have taken over another of my herb gardens.

I would love to live somewhere that I could grow outdoor herbs, year round. For now I just try to pot them up, in the Autumn, to get me through till Spring.

[malaise]

50. Thyme and rosemary don't do so well when the temperature drops

but basil is fine all year round and so is French thyme. We have a curry leaf shrub and I get cilantro in the market most of the year. I'm working hard on my cilantro this year.

[Siwsan]

51. A curry leaf shrub!?!?!?!?! I might just desperately need one of those!

I imagine it is pretty fragrant!

[malaise]

52. Oh yes - I never cook curry or

chick peas without curry leaf.

Here's a good link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/curry_leaves

[Siwsan]

53. Must look into this!

There is an interesting market, about an hour from here, that sells an amazing variety of 'exotic' foods and herbs. Might be worth the drive! The only Indian market closed, which made me very sad.

I am a huge fan of Indian cuisine and even if I am feeling a little lazy and use curry sauce from a jar, I have to tart it up with something out of my spice collection.

[JHan]

55. I grow cilantro too but also "chadon beni" - or as you might call it "spirit weed'?

.. which is essentially coriander on steroids.. . Chadon Beni is crazy though, it can take over very easily.

[58Sunliner]

42. Ok, these are probably not going to be recognized as predators. Think owl, hawk, eagle.

Secondly, another animal will take his place. Nature abhors a vacuum. Just the way it is. Like the guy who moved 20+ opossums. Who do not carry rabies, and keep down the bug population. They are very beneficial. I have a garden and have no problems with our local opossum. If you are having problems, you will have to put down a barrier in the ground to the depth that they burrow. You could get a piece of galvanized metal or roof flashing that comes in a roll. You could attach wooden stakes and pound in or bury. This will be your best bet. I agree that it could be signing the critters death warrant to dump him in a strange place. I have a problem with the attitude that you matter most. I would simply plant more. A lot more. My oregano plant is so huge it could probably feed a family and I'd still harvest plenty of oregano. Add some good organic compost.

[Siwsan]

48. I'm probably going to end up erecting a reinforced, decorative fence around the herbs

Which wouldn't be that difficult. I've also thought about elevating a planter box.

The thing with these critters is, where they are now, they are being subjected to lawn mowers, dogs, cars, feral cats and the poison weed killer treatments used on the lawns. Not to mention the neighbors who will, without a second's hesitation, kill them if they get into their gardens. It happens, every single summer. They are shot or poisoned.

The area I would relocate them to is a huge field with lots of other wildlife, and away from major roads and homes. I really don't see a downside to that.

[athena]

85. The downside was explained in one of my previous posts, which I invite you to read now.

Transporting the animals is not less cruel than killing them. Information is power, even when it's not what you want to hear.

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/resources/tips/scrap_the_trap.html

Excerpt:
A 2004 study of grey squirrels who were live-trapped and relocated from suburban areas to a large forest showed that a staggering 97 percent of the squirrels either soon died or disappeared from their release area. Take it from the animal’s point of view:

Suddenly in an unfamiliar place, she is disoriented and doesn’t know where to find shelter, food, or water.
She’s in another animal’s territory, and she may be chased out or attacked.
She doesn’t know where to go to escape from predators.
She may desperately search for babies that she is now seperated from.

In the meantime, her helpless young are slowly dying. Even if the orphaned young are discovered, rescued, and taken to a wildlife rehabilitator to be reared, it remains a bleak situation for both the mother and her offspring, and one that could have been easily prevented.

[58Sunliner]

88. I understand what you are saying, but stop and see the big picture.

These animals are able to reproduce and succeed. Maybe they don't need your intervention. Think on that. I might have a talk with a neighbor about that round-up. There is now strong anecdotal evidence, and studies have been suppressed showing that handling and spraying round-up causes cancer. Also it is probably illegal to poison them. And honestly, what a sick thing to do. I repeat, another will take it's place.
And if you do not see a downside to DUMPING an animal in an area that it does not know and putting it at risk, then you are not listening. If you are not listening, you don't want to hear new information. You think you know what is best in spite of your ignorance. Remind me of anyone? Oh yeah, orange asshat.

I realize it isn't easy accommodating the other beings in our habitat, but maybe you could look at this resident as a gift. Give him a name- Put a little house on top of his burrow, and put in your barrier. We are so deliberately destructive to other beings and maybe this is a chance to raise your consciousness.

[Siwsan]

89. I'm sorry that you have chosen to become so vile. Really.

I think what you have insinuated is absolutely one of the most insulting things I have ever read, and I see nothing to be gained by ever communicating with you, again.

You have a nice life. Well, as nice as you can, with your horrible attitude.

[58Sunliner]

95. Vile is subjective. I will agree I can be rude and tactless.

If "you have insinuated is absolutely one of the most insulting things I have ever read", is true, then you don't get out much. My point was that many people are trying to tell you that trapping isn't effective and can be harmful, but it seems that you do not want to hear that. To me that is vile.

[Warpy]

56. Buried fences aren't pretty

but they're the only way to keep the little SOBs out of the garden. They also work for rabbits and other pests.

If your problem is ever deer, than the fence has to get a lot taller. I was lucky, the deer in my neighborhood weren't interested in my veggie garden.

[Siwsan]

58. Last year I had a baby bunny that was hopping through the fencing!

This little cutie was just small and spry enough to hop up above the chicken wire, and through the fencing! I laughed so hard, when I saw for myself how it was getting in. It had spectacular aim!

A little more chicken wire over the fencing solved the problem.

I've only seen deer once. This is a very developed area, but there is a large field and woodland, about a mile away. Lots of deer, turkey and other wildlife, up there.

[WinkyDink]

59. I've planted herb gardens, and plan to again this year. I figure, WTH, so it's a buffet for animals.

[Siwsan]

63. I plan for and use everything I grow

I eat out of the garden, all summer, and then freeze and can for meals, over the Winter and Spring. Herbs included. Gardening is not a casual thing, for me. It makes a big difference for me and my family.

[WinkyDink]

67. Then you must do what you must do!

[Siwsan]

69. I endeavor to be as kind as possible!!

But don't even get me STARTED on Tomato Worms!!!!

[Hekate]

68. Certain persons seem to have entirely missed that point...

Certain persons are unbelievably holier than thou.

Enjoy your produce.

[Siwsan]

70. Thanks! Wish I could have you over for a Ratatouille dinner, with me!

My summertime cooking is pretty spectacular. And wonderfully fragrant!

[Hekate]

71. I loooove Ratatouille. Eggplant is one of my favorite vegetables.

[Blue_Tires]

61. When is your birthday? I'll send you a crossbow and your problems will be over quickly...

[Siwsan]

64. Are you trying to get me into trouble with people!!!

I've already been branded as pretty heartless and despicable for wanting to move these critters back to the wild!

[OregonBlue]

62. You can buy cougar, coyote, wolf urine sprays.

[Old Terp]

75. Voles are my biggest problem. Got rabbits and deer too plus other critters.

Spend lots of money each year to have blooms and veggies for me and to replenish their larder. Was happy to come across the skin of my very large black snake. Now if he/she will just stay in the yard and not try to get in the house (the cat has even brought me little ones from the garage; told him to drive them out and not gift me).

[hunter]

76. Our dogs do that duty.

Unfortunately the husky and the catahoula like to dig.

Please note that huskies are cute and intelligent but they are not easy dogs always eager to please their humans. They are a bit like cats in some respects. They will fill your house with hair, overwhelming even bagless vacuum cleaners. Most of our clothes dryer lint is husky hair too.

We got our husky from the animal shelter. He'd suffered people who didn't know what to do with him once he was no longer a cute puppy, so they put him on a chain outside 24/7, which is illegal here. There are too many %$#%$& dog breeders who will jump on the latest fad dog breed, and too many people who will buy the latest fad dog breed not knowing what they are getting into. I think that ought to be illegal.

Catahoulas are another difficult breed, even if you plan to go pig hunting with them.

One of our immediate neighbors has dachshunds, both of them rescued puppy mill rejects. They do the same job repelling rodent garden invaders as our dogs, but are far less damaging to the garden and can't jump over eight foot fences like our anti-rodent dogs can. (Thus our ten foot fences...)

[Sunlei]

78. they're naturally spreading out from your neighbors land looking for food. clean up the junk, they d

don't like open ground. plant some Clover, alfalfa and they'll eat that.

nasty to use used cat litter, plants will leech-up chemicals from the litter and then you eat that stuff.

get a jack Russell they chase off all kinds of smallish ground level varmints.

[Siwsan]

80. The cat litter is no where near the plants

I had immediately thought of that. It's at the start of where I think they are crossing into the yard, and under the shrub where they hide. There is a REAL obvious trail forming on the lawns. It will get worse when the fruit trees start dropping pears and apples - then it becomes more of a super highway. But I don't mind them eating the fruit.

So far my plaster birds seem to be doing the trick. I'm going to try to construct some sort of nice little fence for the herbs. Or an elevated platform and I'll keep the herbs in pots.

I'd LOVE a Jack Russell - my sister had two and they were absolutely wonderful. Unfortunately, my overly territorial tortie would likely shred it!

Thanks for the input!!

[LSFL]

79. they are too cute to shoot right now

But bear with me now. Plant lots of clover and savory herbs. Feed them well. Then KABOOM! When they are huge and fat let em have it! Ground hogs are delicious. Just google how to dress them out.

[Siwsan]

82. Oh, you made me LAUGH!!

I'm sure all of the apples and pears they will gobble up will make them most tasty. Not for me, but maybe for the neighborhood hawks!

[Jersey Devil]

90. My successful battle with groundhogs

Here's what I did and it stopped them completely from eating my garden.

I surrounded my garden with wooden landscape ties and a bunny fence 3 feet high. No problem for the groundhogs who simply dug under the landscape ties and into the garden.

My next step stopped them. I bought chicken wire and laid it flat on the ground about 2 feet wide all around the garden, attached to to the landscape ties with staples. Within a month the grass grew through the chicken wire so you couldn't even see it anymore and every time the groundhogs tried to dig and encountered wire they would stop and moved on somewhere else. I did this about 5 years ago and haven't had a groundhog in my garden since, though I do still see them in the area.

[Siwsan]

91. That is a great suggestion!

I'd have to do a little adapting for the front herb garden, but it's sure worth a shot, and I do have plenty of chicken wire.

I lost a whole lot of tomatoes, last year, before I realized one had gotten in. It took one bite out of each tomato on four different plants. I actually put a mirror tile over the blocked tunnel, hoping it would see it's reflection and think it was a rival groundhog.

[Jersey Devil]

94. Yep, one bite from each tomato

Had the same thing. They also ate all my broccoli and peppers right down to the nubs. But once I laid down the chicken wire it stopped immediately. I still know when they've been in my yard by seeing the rose leaves eaten off all the lower shoots on my rose bushes but they keep away from the garden.

[cwydro]

92. That's a great idea! nt

[roamer65]

98. Too bad you didn't have some bald eagles around, Siwsan.

Those furry little choppers would already have been eaglet chow by now.

[Siwsan]

99. I have seen an eagle, in the area

I was so surprised to see it, swooping overhead, I almost drove off of the road!

And there are a few red tail hawks and some falcons. I've seen the hawk perched on my old TV antenna, and the falcon in a tree, in my front yard. Prime groundhog spotting areas.

So while I'm not willing to install a salad bar for the groundhogs (as some have suggested I should do) I am willing to suggest them as a buffet, for the raptors.