Bar Uses Brilliant Sign to Shut Down Creepy Dudes

[n2doc]

To cut down on creepy interactions from male patrons, the employees at the Beer Cellar in Exeter, England put this sign on the bar:

Beer Cellar Exeter?
@BeerCellarExe
This is definitely our favourite sign in the bar. Also if dudes could stop trying to kiss our female bartender's hands that would be great.



One of the bartenders, Lauren Dew, tells Munchies: “We put it up a few months ago after a pretty rough weekend... We had to toss out a guy who was harassing myself and another female bartender." Most customers love the new sign, although Drew says that they’ve received a few complaints “from the guys who need the sign most of all.”

https://www.eater.com/2017/5/26/15701866/beer-celler-exeter-bar-sign

[NastyRiffraff]

1. Nasty women!

Love them

[Bernardo de La Paz]

2. "fucking" is not the smartest word choice for this context, despite the wisdom of the notice. . . nt

[lastlib]

13. I would've re-located it......

s/b modifying "cretin" instead of "job".......

My 2cts

[aeromanKC]

14. Or is it?

[3catwoman3]

19. I have seen this clip...

...more times than I can remember, and it cracks me up every time.

Since the stolen election, it has certainly become a daily part of my vocabulary, but, so far, only when I am alone or here on DU.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

23. The female bartenders' jobs are not "to fuck". Yes it can be an adjective, but of two types. . . nt

[Duppers]

3. Love it!

[oberliner]

4. Why do bars make a point of hiring young, attractive female cashiers and servers?

Why is it much harder for a less attractive person to get one of those jobs?

These questions are also worth pondering.

[Snotcicles]

5. And why does their income rely so heavily on tips. nt

[7962]

6. Because guys as a rule are always thinking they have a shot with the "hot" girl

SO they keep going back because the only thing holding her back is she needs to "get to know me"

[mdbl]

7. sounds like you only visit Hooters.

J/K

[pangaia]

12. LOL....

[cwydro]

8. Well, we know why they hire good looking folks.

However, it still doesn't give those creeps a pass to harass them.

[oberliner]

17. Agreed

But bars are structured in such a way so as to encourage the purchase and consumption of alcohol through various methods, among them hiring attractive women and encouraging those women to behave somewhat flirtatiously towards the male customers so that they will stick around and buy more drinks, which, in turn, makes them more likely to behave poorly as their level of intoxication increases.

So while I completely agree that those creeps do not have a pass to harass said women, I would assert that the bars themselves in many cases deliberately create an environment that makes such behavior more rather than less likely to occur.

[cwydro]

24. I've worked in bars in my younger days.

Your argument is dangerously close to "well, she shouldn't have dressed that way and she wouldn't have been raped." These men should know how to behave. And I think most men do.

I usually agree with you on most posts, but have to diverge here.

[oberliner]

31. That's not my argument at all

There is no excuse whatsoever for sexually harassing cashiers and servers.

My only point is with respect to the hiring practices of such establishments. They ought to hire people based on their talent rather than appearance.

I also think they should pay their employees a wage that does not make them tip dependent.

[cwydro]

44. Well, I agree with that.

[Johnny2X2X]

16. Not just bars and Restaurants.

Hotels primarily hire attractive people to interface with the customer.

First off, everyone is beautiful in their own way. But it's wrong to only hire people who meet society's standard of beauty to represent the company. How many truly talented customer service professionals miss out on jobs they are the best at because they don't look attractive enough to the hiring manager?

It's wrong and IMO it's bad business.

[oberliner]

41. Agreed

It is definitely wrong and unfair.

[redstatebluegirl]

18. I was one of those in college.

I worked in a bar that executives of the large insurance company close by would frequent. I put myself through school with the tips I got. I had a good body back then wore tight sweaters to work for a reason. The bouncers kept the cretins away and walked me to my car at night. Back in the 70's my tips for a night could go as high as $150 to 200 for a 5 hour shift.

[TheCowsCameHome]

20. I would think your

"bouncers" were what brought some guys in.


(My bad, I'm sorry, just couldn't resist.......... )

[redstatebluegirl]

21. No problem, I consider myself a feminist, but fully recognize I used my assets when I could.

now I couldn't tend bar in an old folks home and get any tips

[Squinch]

29. I've seen as many grizzled old guys as attractive young women behind bars.

If you are seeing attractive young women bartenders and thinking they are there simply to bamboozle unsuspecting men into creepy behavior, maybe you should ponder about why you think that.

[oberliner]

32. It seems like the sign in the OP is not in relation to "grizzled old guy" cashiers

But rather to younger attractive female cashiers.

[Squinch]

34. But you are contending that bars only hire attractive young women. And you are telling

us to ponder why they may do that, the implication being that they are using the women's sexuality to sell. The further implication being that some creepy behavior is therefore to be expected.

I am saying that bars DON'T only hire attractive young women, and when they do maybe the reason is that an attractive young woman answered the ad. As sometimes they do.

So my contention is that, if the men in the bar are behaving in a creepy manner toward the cashier, it is not because they have been led to it by the fact that bars hire attractive young women. It is because the men have creep tendencies.

And about the idea that bars encourage women to flirt with the men? I worked in bars to get through school. I didn't flirt. Really. Not even a little. I was too busy trying to earn a living. But I can't tell you how many times a guy would say something to me that made it clear that he was sure I was flirting with him or coming on to him or "asking for" the grope he gave me.

It's something about the fact of a woman working in a bar. There are many men who assume she is up for grabs, literally and figuratively.

[oberliner]

38. I think it's harder for an unattractive women to get one of those jobs

The implication being that bars do not always hire their cashiers and servers based purely on their ability to do the tasks required of the job. I think that many of them hire attractive people who don't have the same level of ability because they think it will be good for their business.

Would you disagree with that?

In terms of creepy behavior of guys, I think their behavior is certainly a result of their creepy tendencies. I would argue, though, that most creepy guys are more likely to behave that way towards an attractive female who is friendly to them than towards a grizzled old man or a less attractive and less friendly female.

I do agree with your point that some men make that assumption that you identified in the last paragraph, and I find that repugnant.

[Squinch]

43. No. I don't necessarily agree with that. As I have said, I've seen as many grizzled

old guys and middle aged guys and older women behind bars as younger women.

Creepy guys are going to behave that way towards attractive women whether the women are "friendly" or not. As I have explained. And yes, they will be creepy and grope and expect things of attractive women and won't do the same to grizzled men. But what is your point with that? I can't see why one would make that point other than to suggest that the creepy behavior is the fault of the bar for hiring the attractive woman or the woman for being attractive. Neither of those is true. The fault of the creepy behavior is with the creep.

[oberliner]

45. OK, fair enough

I guess my point is that bars that do hire young, attractive women and encourage them to flirt with customers (who are thereby encouraged to stay longer and drink more) ought to recognize that doing so creates an environment where creepy guys will be more likely to behave creepily (assuming such bars exist).

I am prepared to accept the possibility that what I am saying is not accurate - I appreciate you challenging me on these premises.

[Squinch]

46. So it's the fault of the bar then? Or the girl who is "flirting" with the customer by being civil

and doing her job?

When a bar hires the girl, or the girl does her job, they should expect this kind of behavior from men?

Honestly, the gyrations that men will go through to absolve either themselves or other men from responsibility for their actions never ceases to amaze me.

[oberliner]

47. Not at all - it is 100 percent the fault of the creepy guy who engages in that behavior

That person is the only person who is to blame for the behavior in question.

That behavior in no way can or should be absolved by anything.

Anyone who sexually harasses another person is fully responsible for their actions.

Personally, I don't think that "flirting" should be a job requirement for a cashier and/or server. I don't think a bar owner should encourage the staff to flirt with the customers. I also think the staff should not be dependent on tips, and should be paid accordingly.

[Squinch]

48. What world do you live in where the job requirement of a cashier is flirting?

Again, the assumption that this is anyone's job requirement is just another way of absolving the creepy guy for his creepy actions.

[oberliner]

49. Do you know what a "shot girl" is?

Here's an article you might find interesting:

Things I Learned as a Shot Girl

Excerpt:

A LOT OF DRUNK MEN ARE EXACTLY AS YOU'D EXPECT THEM TO BE

Being a shot girl is essentially the same as any other sales job: You're using your personality to turn a profit. However, unlike most sales jobs—which are conducted from the safety of an anonymous suburban desk cubicle—you're required to work in a dark room with the constant threat of an unwanted ass grope or boob-hand-brush.

Generalizations are lazy, but the one I'm about to make is accurate. There are two types of drunk heterosexual men: those who see you as malleable objects ready to be manipulated into bed, and those who see you as a person just like them, but with less showy genitals. As a shot girl, you're on the frontline of the sticky-carpeted battleground, constantly having to deal with the former bunch and every one of their sleazy lines.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/things-i-learnt-as-a-shots-girl-888

Here's another article on the same subject:

Being a shot girl isn’t easy

https://thetab.com/uk/aberdeen/2014/11/15/shot-girl-problems-6775

Here's one more:

My Daughter, Shot Girl

My daughter balances a tray of Leg Spreaders on her palm and works her way through the crowd at Chief’s Wings and Firewater. She is a Shot Girl. She has been told by her boss to dress “sexy not slutty.” She is poured into a pair of jeans. She is hiked up a little on red shoes I’ve never seen before. I am the worst father ever.

http://bittersoutherner.com/folklore-project/my-daughter-shot-girl/

That's the kind of job where they only hire attractive females and part of the job description is to flirt with the customers.

Is that not something that you've heard of?

[Squinch]

50. So per the shot girl in the article, there are two types of men. The ones who manage

to see them as humans, and the ones who don't. This is exactly the same as the experience I had in a run of the mill college bar.

The shot girl in the story you reference is not "flirting." Se is doing her job. She is pouring shots. It has nothing to do with flirting, as should be clear from the fact that she feels like the "holy grail" for profitability is the bachelorette party.

So once again, flirting is not a part of the job requirement. Serving shots is.

But men look at this and tell themselves it's flirting so they have an excuse for the grab ass.

You yourself are working very very hard to prove that these women are flirting. They are not. They are doing a job.

You should ponder that.

[oberliner]

57. Seems like they are encouraged to flirt with the customers

From what is written in these articles. Did you read the other two? The articles gave me the impression that their bosses encouraged them to act flirtatiously if they wanted to be successful. Perhaps I misunderstood.

Anyway, this has been a really informative discussion. I appreciate you giving me so much to ponder. All the best!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

33. But have you seen any grizzled old women?

Ah, now there's a demographic that's only wanted for nursing home commercials.

[Squinch]

35. Only when they're the owners.

Nice to see your name, Blanche!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

54. Ha! Now that's a twist I like.

Helloooo Squinch! Nice to see you too 😄

[oberliner]

39. I think grizzled old women are discriminated against in hiring

No question about that.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

53. Yeppers that's the truth.

To be an [s]old[/s] or I mean unfuckable woman is to be invisible. Also, an acceptable target for contempt.

[Skittles]

36. you get more obvious every day

[oberliner]

40. Thank you

I appreciate that.

(Hopefully it was meant as a compliment!)

[DBoon]

52. You must not go to many hipster bars

It's all guys with beards and top-knots, making excellent artisanal cocktails

[oberliner]

56. Presumably those bars don't need a sign

Like the one in the OP.

[JoeStuckInOH]

59. I went to a hipster Bar like a week or two ago.

Not sure why but they didn't have the NBA playoffs on whatever the TV was playing. How you can have a bar in the akron/cleveland area and not have their playoff games on the TV. Unfortunately, I didn't think the bartenders goofy mustache was interesting enough to warrant staying, so I had to go to a different watering hole that would have the game on.

[DBoon]

62. And I bet you saved a bundle by switching bars

Nt

[tazkcmo]

58. Because men like it.

As a long time bartender of male persuasion, I regularly saw men who would rather have a bad but attractive bartender than an efficient and less than attractive or male bartender. You know, neanderthals.

[luvMIdog]

9. great sign!

[GatoGordo]

10. ???

All men are "cretins" when a cashier is nice to them? All men think cashiers are hot for them?

I'm just thinking that their ought to be some sort of qualifier. I hate absolutes.

[xor]

11. The qualifier is being a creep.

This is referring specifically to those guys who think that someone being nice to them means that person wants to bang them. I'm sure we all know people who are like that. I've even known a few women over the years who were like that, but it's for sure a much more common trait among men.

Confusion and mixed signals do happen at times. But once it becomes clear the person has no interest then back off. Also, if someone seems to routinely have confusion when it comes to these situations, then person is probably a creep.

[Squinch]

28. Poor dear. It's so confusing.

[Skittles]

37. it's always about them

always

[Squinch]

42. Yup.

[AllaN01Bear]

15. ding.

[IronLionZion]

22. Feminists should turn the tables on this issue

and have feminists be the creepy ones who approach men (or women) and face rejection. Lesbians have some idea of what that's like.

There have been a few studies/experiments on this topic but we need more.

[melman]

25. They changed it because someone told them 'cretin' is ableist

Not kidding.

Link to tweet

[Solly Mack]

27. Ha!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

30. Good for them for being gracious!

[Solly Mack]

26. K&R

[cstanleytech]

51. Sad that they need that kind of sign to tell people the obvious which is that the cashiers are

simply doing their jobs part of which is being polite to the customers.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

55. Threads like this always seem to contain...

posts which remind me of a famous line from Joe Orton: "There are two sexes. The unpalatable truth must be faced. Your attempts at a merger can end only in heartbreak." .

[liberalnarb]

60. Pretty straightforward.

[PatrickforO]

61. Nice sign. 'That's actually her fucking job.' Really good.

I don't go to bars much (not at all, really), but I can see how female staff might be harassed.