3 Major London incidents ongoing - London Bridge, Borough Market and Vauxhall Areas

[sunonmars]

More to follow -

Officers are now responding to an incident in the #Vauxhall area

Armed officers - Shootings and Stabbing, Van involved.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3717442/london-bridge-incident-live-updates/?CMP=Spklr-_-Editorial-_-TheSun-_-News-_-TwImageandlink-_-Question-_-TWITTER

[sunonmars]

1. 'More than 1 fatality'. confirmed

[Leith]

2. Sky News Livestream

Yup. Something is happening.

[politicat]

21. BBC Radio livestream:

BBC 4: http://bbcradio4.radio.net

A reminder: BBC 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 are the entertainment sides (pop, pop, classical and jazz, sports and alternative music, respectively.) They are covering this at the top, bottom and quarter hours, so if you need to keep up but also need the break, pick one of the entertainment channels and replace its number in the URL above.

That the entertainment channels have not switched over to full coverage is actually reassuring. That means the Beeb considers this serious, but not a dire, national emergency.

Also remember that Sky is a Murdoch developed, Fox property. It's not as blatant propaganda as US FauxSnooze, but it is slanted, as is made obvious in this tweet:

Link to tweet

[malaise]

3. Sometimes I wonder how the timing of these attacks

just happen to facilitate RW talking points close to elections.

[sunonmars]

6. shut that shit down right now, people are dead.

[hrmjustin]

7. I think not.

There have been attacks before the election was called. Also Manchester did not make May's numbers go up.

No this is terrorism plain and simple.

[Horse with no Name]

8. I think so too. n/t

[malaise]

14. This planet is so messed up

I no longer know what is what

[elmac]

35. yep

and the US, Britain are the main contributors to this mess. Ongoing wars for over a decade, millions dead so wall street can flourish.

[roamer65]

9. Man, you are a mind reader Malaise.

[malaise]

13. Some folks don't think we should think about these things

Ah well

[melman]

11. Garment Biz

[NutmegYankee]

16. ISIS wants to start a war between east and west

Left leaning governments don't suit their agenda.

[brooklynite]

18. Sometimes I alert on unfounded conspiracy theories.

[MrPurple]

23. That's a natural thought

The terrorists are very aware of the timing and I'm sure if Putin could facilitate a terror attack before an election, he would. Overly conspiracy theorizing might not be helpful, but I don't see how someone wouldn't wonder about the timing when this and the Manchester attack occur after the snap election was called.

[Igel]

38. Besides the fact that the events happened now,

and assuming (as is likely ... thanks Bayes) that it is terrorism, what makes you think that they scheduled them because they're aware of the timing?

Evidence?

None.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. (But I repeat myself. "Perhaps" entails "perhaps not".)

The first assumption is that the attackers have British partisan politics as their first priority, which means that any other concerns are backgrounded. The second is that they organized this and planned this only after 4/18/17. Now, perhaps they put this together after thinking, "Let's make a partisan statement and try to sway elections away from Labor by having a series of attacks staged in Manchester and then in London." Or perhaps they just found opportunity to stage an attack that is centered on their goals and not US partisan politics. A third is that it's absolutely clear how the attacks would affect British politics. (To be honest, I don't have a basis for an assumption as to the effect: It shows the Tories can't provide security and should hurt them; on the other hand, if Labor is seen as traditionally weak then it should help them; but if it's just a fact of life then any effect would be on the edges.)

I'd say the first assumption should be that they have their own goals, not necessarily those we attribute to them, and that the British had best figure out what those goals were. In other words, first evidence, then conclusion.

[MrPurple]

41. The 2004 Madrid bombings were thought timed with the Spanish elections then

I agree with everything you said in your post. There's no evidence to show that the UK elections affected the timing of this weekend's attack. But, I was supporting the original post in saying that it's natural to have the thought wondering if they could be related.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38817-2004Oct16.html

I remember that in 2004, the Madrid train bombings were just before (3 days) an election in Spain and there was evidence that the terrorists did purposely time it then. After a period without major terror attacks in the UK, when there's two high profile ones in the six week period after an election has been called, I think it's hard not to have the thought wondering if they could be related. That's all I'm saying. People responded to the OP that they block people who propose conspiracy theories, which I thought was harsh. They weren't proposing a conspiracy theory.

I agree that it's hard to parse out whether it would even help Labor or Conservatives more, but given that there's a history of terrorist attacks occurring around European elections, and that their goal is to cause maximum chaos, it's not crazy to wonder if it could be a factor.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. It's the same logic that leads Alex Jones to call a shooting in an elementary school, a "false flag"

Fucked up shit happens, done by fucked up people. Not everything is an Illuminati plot.

[malaise]

29. That's a stretch

Wondering is just what it says - it's no theory or plot

[Warren DeMontague]

30. C'mon. Your words: " how the timing of these attacks just happen to facilitate RW talking points

close to elections."

You can pretend that doesn't carry the implication it pretty obviously does, fine. And I'm not saying we're not all susceptible to that sort of reflexive thinking, yours truly included.

But it's the sort of reflex that I personally think deserves a bit of critical self-examination. Just a thought.

[malaise]

31. I do wonder about these things

I'm pretty cynical about our planet and those seeking power. To compare people wondering with Sandy Hook deniers is a stretch.

[JI7]

33. actually it's the same thing. terrorist attacks happen just like shootings in the US

There is proof of both.

[sunonmars]

4. Up to 7 feared dead and 20 hurt in the incident

[shenmue]

12. Oh shit

[MoonRiver]

5. Dear God...

[Warpy]

10. Vauxhall station has reopened

meaning it was either misreported or not related.

I hope they get these dirtbags quickly.

[Maraya1969]

15. Why are these things happening in Europe but pretty much are contained here????

Plus I think those airport metal detectors that you walk through should be used in many more venues.

It really seems like they haven't to set up more protection. I wish they would

[trentwestcott]

17. I thought the attackers in London used vans and knives in a public place?

I don't think that metal detectors would do much good, since a van wouldn't be able to fit through one, and since the knives weren't used in a private admission venue, they were used in a public place. Maybe we could put metal detectors outside of everyone's front doors to make sure that no one would leave their home with any weapons, but that would be very expensive.

[HipChick]

34. Have to rec your thread..

yeah..does not seem to help with the multiple shootings that occur in the US

[NutmegYankee]

19. We don't put metal detectors everywhere because they just oppress citizens.

Imagine if we did put detectors at grocery stores, subways, movie theaters, and malls. It would cause delays at the entrances as people line up (and people in security lines are prime terror attack target) and harass people with metal implants like cervical fusion, replacement knees, pacemakers/defibrillators, etc. Plus the hassle of emptying pockets of keys and phones everywhere you went. Just the implementation on subways alone would plunge ridership due to the delays.

We would be a complete police state. And that is why the vast majority would never support it.

[trentwestcott]

22. I completely agree

I haven't been to even 5 baseball games since they started putting the metal detectors at the door. What's next, patdowns at Walmart? Strip searches at the movies?

"Well, if it saves even one life..."

TSA is already venturing away from the airports now and then for an anti-fourth amendment field trip here an there. We don't need anymore security theater. If you feel that unsafe, stay in your home and cower in fear by yourself.

[NutmegYankee]

28. I always laugh at the "Well, if it saves even one life..."

If we really wanted to save lives, we'd have agents monitor your food intake everyday and step in when they felt you were risking disease. If we didn't want the totalitarian nanny state, universal health care alone would save more lives in one year than terrorism has ever taken in the past several decades.



The top 10 leading causes of death in the U.S.:

Heart disease
Cancer (malignant neoplasms)
Chronic lower respiratory disease
Accidents (unintentional injuries)
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases)
Alzheimer's disease
Diabetes
Influenza and pneumonia
Kidney disease (nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis)
Suicide

[Codeine]

26. The uncomfortable answer;

we have a far smaller population of radicalized Muslims than in many European countries.

[Rustyeye77]

32. I guess it's ok for YOU...

To say "radicalized m******"

[Codeine]

37. Do toddle off now, kiddo. nt

[Rustyeye77]

39. Enough with the condescension.

Just asking...seriously

What's allowed ?
Is it ok to say "radicalized m-------" ?
Is it ok to say " radical I------ terrorists"?

[HipChick]

20. Stabbings are a fairly normal occurance in the UK...

crime related stabbings that's not unusual ..

[brooklynite]

24. Reportedly, the men stabbling people came out of the van that hit people on London Bridge

[trentwestcott]

25. Yeah, what's all the hype about?

That's just life in the big city, isn't it? Reactionaries...sheesh.

[Not Ruth]

36. Even with the potential for terrorism, big cities are extremely safe

Compared to Chad, where the lifespan is under 50, due mostly to water related sickness.

[trentwestcott]

40. Yeah, but I guess when white people get killed by what MAY OR MAY NOT BE Muslims it's a "big deal"