Comedians perspective jokes about race

[GitRDun]

Take a look at this video from the late 1990's. You will see all three comedians; David Spade, Bill Maher, and Sara Silverman on the same side of the discussion when it comes to the use of racial slurs in jokes. Their position is comedians use the racial slurs to illuminate racism in society.

The other two panelists focus on the hurt those jokes may cause.

IMO, no one in this video is a racist...none are necessarily wrong. We should all stop beating each other up in DU just because we see things a little differently. Better to learn from different opinions.

[NCTraveler]

1. They make fine points about the use of racial slurs in comedy.

Yet it's obvious Maher often falls back on his own inherent bigotry. He has a track record of it and it's not always to "illuminate racism in society."


Nothing there that would white-wash his history.

[HopeAgain]

2. +100

[Squinch]

3. No. Three white people "illuminating racism in society" is inherently obnoxious. I'll listen to

this comedian:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9154459

[GitRDun]

5. Are these people racist too?

[Squinch]

7. Is it a white guy using a racial slur against black people for no apparent reason?

Now you'll tell me about what a nuanced and high brow joke it was.

Or that white people should be able to use racial slurs against black people if black people use them.

But let me ask you this: why are you so invested in the idea that racial slurs should be tolerated?

Seriously, those defending this are getting quite hysterical about it, even after Maher himself said it was completely inappropriate. Why do you feel such a need to defend such an act when the person who performed the act has denounced it?

[GitRDun]

13. Again you illustrate the problem with this discussion

I am invested in tolerating racial slurs? So you leapt thru the internet and somehow know my mind.

I said different people have different opinions on this topic.

Lighten up Frances!

[Squinch]

14. You are very invested in defending it. I leapt through the internet and saw that you posted an

OP, after the topic had died down, in which you had to get in your two cents about how those saying to you, "This hurts me when you do it" are not to be respected.

This is not a light topic, Francis. It's too bad you seem to need to tell people it is no big deal.

[GitRDun]

16. Bullcookies!

You don't read anything.

I said SOME CAN BE OFFENDED, OTHERS THINK THE JOKES ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING BY ILLUMINATING RACISM THRU JOKES.

There is room in the world for BOTH OPINIONS.

No one said it's a light topic. You are a part of the problem though if all you see is one side.

[Squinch]

20. No. The problem comes solely from people who are desperately justifying the use of racial slurs.

[GitRDun]

24. Reading comprehension is helpful.

[GitRDun]

15. Here's another more reasonable discussion on the topic

[Squinch]

18. I'm done with the topic, and I'm not watching your justifications for the use of slurs that

those who they describe have said are hurtful and unacceptable. I cannot fathom why you have such a need to defend the use of racial slurs.

Come on up to the Bronx and put all these insights of yours into action. Call a bunch of folks racial slurs and then let them know that it's all in fun. Let me know when you're doing it. I want to watch.

[GitRDun]

23. Done with you too

Sanctimonious, self righteousness, judgemental posters who cannot read effectively doesn't fly with me.

I don't use racial slurs. I'm not justifying them either. I'm making an observation. I'm intelligent enough to know comedians have long used humor to illuminate racism. They don't always get it right...they are human, too. That's why it's good when they understand when they've gone over the line.

I've been in the Bronx and I live in the city. I don't have a problem with anyone. Never have. The fact that you assume I would be the kind of person that openly uses racial slurs shows just how over the top your opinions are. You don't know the first thing about me.

You make DU a worse place by not listening to what I'm trying to communicate, and not recognizing there is room in the world for discussion, not just shoving your opinions down others throats.

[Squinch]

28. LOL! Poor you! No one will really take the time to UNDERSTAND you!

[GitRDun]

45. You don't read, you don't consider, you do nothing but judge...

No one is hysterical about the Bill Maher comments with the possible exception of those on DU posting multiple times he must be a bigot. He screwed up and apologized for it. Yet some here seem to want much more.

I am merely pushing the point that the world is not black and white as you see it.

Some comedians actually think that their use of absurd language to get people to think is a good thing.

Equally, others are offended by their language.

I think it's worth a discussion about where it crosses the line without shouting out judgments like Bill Maher must be a bigot. That's tremendously short sided.

What is happening in this thread is merely verbal bullying. No one says white people should be able to use racial slurs because black people do. However, if you read all my posts, it would seem both black and white comedians alike seem to think it's ok from a comedic standpoint to teach people something about race.

No one is invested in racial slurs being tolerated. I'm merely observing that comedians, black and white, believe slurs can be used to teach people. You may agree or disagree, many disagree, but that is a fact.

Maher was in appropriate...there was no teaching moment about race or racism in his "joke". He was right to apologize. However, THAT DOESN'T MAKE HIM A BIGOT. It makes him HUMAN.

Y'all need to get off your soap boxes. Really.

[Squinch]

57. Wait... now, WHO is on a soap box?

Really, the projection is kind of funny.

[Eliot Rosewater]

26. Black people cant be racist in a white supremacy society, so no.

3 white people explaining why racist remarks are OK?

Really?

Wait, this is a routine, right!


Comedians are different from other people in one important way, but the LAST person I will take this lesson from is some random white person on the internet with a clear agenda, that is for DAMN sure.

[GitRDun]

42. Your missing the point

We ought to be able to recognize some comedians think it's valid to use absurd language to make a point AND

that language might offend people WITHOUT

writing those comedians off as bigots.

I have no agenda. You know absolutely nothing about me from a silly post. And I'm not asking you to take a lesson.

I'm merely making an observation.

[Orrex]

40. It's always interesting when white guys get mad that they can't use the N-word

And they invariably point to those pesky black comedians, rappers and hip-hop artists who use the word with apparent impunity. What are we to make of this?

As a boring, generic white guy, if the only "privilege" that I lack is my inability to refer to black people as n-----s, then I guess I'll just have to learn to live with that.

REVERSE RACISM!!!



Oh, and I guess I can't barge in on that women-only screening of Wonder Woman, either.

MISANDRY!!!!

[GitRDun]

41. Another long time poster jabbing at something without really thinking about it.

Bill Maher is not mad he can't use the n word. He recognizes white privilege.

I guess you can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

I guess it's impossible for comedians who use offensive language to illustrate absurdity to SOMETIMES, screw it up. No they MUST BE a bigot. Oh and their view on using humor to illustrate absurdity is ALWAYS INVALID.

I guess it's also impossible to live in a world where some get offended by those words and have a civil discussion about it.

Apparently not here on DU. We should all bow to the opinions of you long timers just because you take jabs at people on-line who you know absolutely nothing about.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

43. Bill Maher doesn't seem to be mad, true, but YOU seem awfully concerned about it.

[GitRDun]

46. I'm not mad dude

I've seen this activity before during the primaries.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

48. Oh, I don't think you're mad. Just...awfully concerned.

I just can't quite put my finger on what it is you want people to consider, what might happen if they don't, and what your overall goal is.

[GitRDun]

49. Lol OK you are entitled to your opinion

Enjoy the day.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

50. Just calling it as I see it!

But I'd love it if you could explain what it is, exactly, that you want people to consider and what you fear will happen if they don't.

[Orrex]

44. LOL. I can't mock you for your low post-count, but you get to mock me for my high post-count

Woe is me!

I frankly don't care what Maher feels, because he's an overprivileged, overpraised asshole. I wasn't addressing him.

I am instead addressing you, and your mysterious eagerness to point to those pesky black comedians and hip-hop artists as proof that whitey should get to use the N-word.

* * *
I guess you can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

I guess it's impossible for comedians who use offensive language to illustrate absurdity to SOMETIMES, screw it up. No they MUST BE a bigot. Oh and their view on using humor to illustrate absurdity is ALWAYS INVALID.

I guess it's also impossible to live in a world where some get offended by those words and have a civil discussion about it.
* * *

Your silly guesses are of no importance to me.


I hope that you can work out your race issues without further embarrassing yourself.

[GitRDun]

47. Lol

well your silly accusations are of no importance to me.

Enjoy the day.

[Orrex]

56. They're not my accusations, and they're not silly

I'm not the only one who sees it plainly, so you can prattle in denial, or you can reflect that you're perhaps not the most enlightened commentator on the state of racial dynamics.

[GitRDun]

58. hahahahaha ok well enjoy your certainty.

[Orrex]

59. I appreciate your determination to keep demonstrating it.

[bettyellen]

4. People need racism illuminated after the year we've had? An anti- PC ass

Is breaking it all down for us?

[GitRDun]

8. Have some Dave Chapelle, you'll feel better...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

11. Have you ever heard of the difference between punching up and punching down?

It's a common one in both comedy and activism circles.

[bettyellen]

29. Ooh condesending bullshit. Good move.

[GitRDun]

30. The condescension is yours.

Too many self righteous posters on this board quell real discussion because they don't read effectively and can't come to grips with the fact that some of us can see both sides of a discussion. Enjoy your certainty.

[bettyellen]

33. "Quell real discussion" because racism is made up shit right?

You have no idea how narrow minded and selfish you sound.

[GitRDun]

34. You obviously don't focus much when you read.

Read your own posts. Self righteous, sanctimonious.

I tried to bring a perspective as to how comedians might have a different perspective and recognize that both perspectives could be valid depending on your point of view.

As usual, some of you long time posters feel it's your right to shove your opinions down people's throats.

You can say whatever you like, but if you read my words, there is recognition of both people being offended AND also the notion that comedians might see it differently.

You don't know the first thing about me. And, lol you certainly can't bully me into thinking there is only YOUR way of seeing the world.

As I said earlier, the condenscension is yours and yours alone.

Maybe you should spend less time posting and more time contemplating what others post after ACTUALLY READING IT AND COMPREHENDING IT.

[bettyellen]

35. You inferred that discussing racist stuff wasn't "real" so yeah I comprehend your opinion.

Your post is a pile of non stop insults and nothing more. I don't care what you say, but you're pretending racism isn't important to liberals. That's bullshit. It's not important to you and you belittle people for discussing it. That's ugly- and it's all on you.

[LanternWaste]

36. I'd pretend any disagreement with my position is simply self-righteousness as well.

Lacking any valid premise, I'd pretend any disagreement with my position is simply self-righteousness as well, projecting my own absolute certitude onto them while yet maintaining the fictional pretense of seeing both sides... much as you have done.

It does beg the question though, what specific element of race and/or racism was illuminated by Maher's use of the word?

[GitRDun]

37. There was nothing added by Maher's use of the term

That's why it's good he apologized

It's silly to assert, however he must be a racist because he called himself something...especially in light of the fact that many comedians use language like that to illustrate a point.

Does George Carlin offend in this video?

[LanternWaste]

39. yours is what it looks like when one attempts to rationalize the irrational behavior of a Sacred Cow

Hence, he used a racially insensitive term despite there being no relevance of that term to satire or his comedy. In effect, a racist term for its own sake.

So yours is what it looks like when one attempts to rationalize the irrational behavior of a Sacred Cow.

[GitRDun]

51. There was no rationalization

I've said it was good he apologized because there was nothing that taught people anything about race in his comment.

All I am saying is that a screw up doesn't make the guy a bigot.

Also saying that there are plenty of comedians, black and white, that use that word to make a point about race. That's not necessarily bad and should not be dismissed out of hand.

I don't understand why somehow people don't see the point that some comedians can have a view on humor as a social tool and some will be offended by that. Both are true.

[JTFrog]

53. He has a history.

You just want to pretend that everyone is blowing one thing out of proportion. Not even close.

You should really just stop before you embarrass yourself further.

[GitRDun]

54. I'm not embarrassed in the least, maybe you should be

I guess DU is just a place for your perspective.

It's not embarrassing to see the world as having many points of view.

It's not embarrassing to recognize some comedians, black and white, might think using absurd language teaches people, while still others are offended by it. It doesn't make either group bad people.

It's not embarrassing to allow that a guy could screw up a joke yet not be a bigot.

You don't know Bill Maher's personal history, no matter how confident you are in saying it. Neither do I. What I do know is that somehow the guy has managed to stay on HBO for a very long time, have tons of guests of all races, and some pretty decent discussions about plenty of topics, including race.

The only people that should be embarrassed are those that pretend to know Bill Maher should be written off as a bigot, that pretend to know me in the least.

Maybe you should just stop.

[JTFrog]

55. Nope. nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. "Better to learn from different opinions."

How is "this hurts me and people who look like me" an opinion? Has nothing changed in the 20 years since this video was made? WON'T SOMEBODY LISTEN TO THE COMEDIANS?

[Squinch]

9. LOL! Right? They're all using that argument. They're quite desperate for SOMEONE to give them

permission to use this language.

Why, I will never understand.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. Every time a white person is called out on using a racial slur, a letter in the original printing of

the First Amendment fades away. Or something.

[Squinch]

12. So here is my question, and I don't know the answer. Are they running around defending

this with their hair on fire because they actually use the word and want to justify it? Or do they, like 5 year olds, just not like to be told they can't do something that someone else is allowed to do (i.e. black comedians)?

But why would it be so important to someone to have permission to disrespect others?

Sadly, I suspect the answer is inherent in the question. They want to be able to disrespect others. Specific others.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. Because they tend to be white (IME), I think it's because there's this idea that being castigated

for saying something goes against the fairness or equality that they think is inherent in society. To decide a word doesn't belong to you is to acknowledge that things are unequal. If we acknowledge something is unequal, we might have to do something about it. If we have to do something about it, we might lose more than something than just a word.

There's also the made-up slippery slope argument -- if we tell some people "they can't use words," next we'll be making EVERYBODY STOP TALKING.

I also agree with your idea that they're acting like 5-year-olds.

[Squinch]

19. Jaysus, Mary and Frank. What a load of bullshit. But I'm guessing you are right. That probably is

the thinking,

[WhiskeyGrinder]

21. I don't think it's a conscious walk through that line of reasoning. But in a country without a

safety net, people with privilege work hard to make sure things stay that way, no matter what. People will default to looking for an other to keep themselves safe and aren't always inclined to do the work to move past that way of thinking.

(I saw your response before the edit and I thought OH SHIT I FUCKED UP.)

[Squinch]

22. LOL! I thought I had said the second part but didn't and then I reread my response and thought

OH SHIT I FUCKED UP!

So sorry!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. We're good!

[Squinch]

27. But with the people here who have been defending it so vociferously, I get the impression that

there is something else going on. It seems like there is some element of "I want to do what the cool kids do, and they won't let me, and no one is allowed to tell me no!"

[WhiskeyGrinder]

31. Yessssss to "the cool kids."

I think you've hit on something there.

[JI7]

32. it's not the late 90s anymore and bill maher apologized for it

So obviously maher seems to have learned something .So why do some have a problem accepting it.

People aren't even calling maher a racist or for him to be fired. They had a problem with his use of the word which he was sorry for.

Yet some have a problem dealing with it.

[LanternWaste]

38. Hence, your application of "smug" and "self-righteous" to those who see things a little differently.

"We should all stop beating each other up in DU just because we see things a little differently...."

Hence, your application of "smug" and "self-righteous" to those who see things, as you said, a little differently.

Though I can certainly empathize with your desire to hold others to a higher standard than you hold yourself to, it seems little more than disingenuous and merit less.

Signed,
Smug and Self-Righteous For Seeing Things A Little Differently.

[leftstreet]

52. Using racist/sexist/homophobic jokes is fucking lazy

Comedians suck nowadays, just suck

They're not funny, they're not WORKING to please broad audiences, and they no longer even try to master the biting, anti-establishment working class humor that people crave.

And when comedians are still using racist, sexist, homophobic jokes it probably means they aren't just lazy, but RACIST/SEXIST/HOMOPHOBIC themselves