It's Mueller which rhymes with Heller.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Rather than look for etymological clues just pronounce a person's name the way he or she prefers.

That's why Brett Favre preferred his name to rhyme with Carve.

[BigmanPigman]

1. I took German and thought it was pronounced "mule-er" with a long "u" vowell sound.

I even Googled it and that is how it is pronounced in German.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Yeah, but you pronounce people's names the way they prefer.

[WinkyDink]

5. Is that the "Bucket, Pronounced 'Bouquet'" Rule? 'Cause that's comedy.

[tavernier]

10. Only if there's room for a pony.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Why was Ed Koch's name pronounced as if it rhymed with crotch

Why was Ed Koch's name pronounced as if it rhymed with crotch but the Koch brothers names are pronounced as if they rhyme with broke?

[Hortensis]

41. Lol. It's just the basic manners rule.

Like we were taught in kindergarten when our teachers (mostly) put an end to calling Petey PeePee.

[nadine_mn]

70. I must answer my white, slimline telephone

with last number redial, it's bound to be someone important

[pnwmom]

34. But where did you here he preferred the "heller" pronunciation?

[madokie]

47. Yes

my name is maner and we pronounce it as Ma ner, some cousins pronounce it as man er. Makes a difference.

heres an off topic one for you. I flew all over the country and parts of the world when I was in the navy and not once did I fly under my correct name cause whoever was filling out the ticket mis spelled my name everytime. Back then no ID was required or asked for. It was a thing to me to see what name I'd be flying under this time LOL

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. Lots of people with ethnic names "Americanize" the pronunciation of them.

[CentralMass]

80. Here is video that adds some weight to this concept.

[FarPoint]

81. You are correct.

It's how I pronounce the name... Family/ grandparents had neighbor with same name...lived in Pittsburgh.

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. Have you got an example of this on tape?

That's the oddest pronunciation given so far.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. Sure

A Parisian would pronounce it roughly as "fav-ruh." Truth is, there is no legitimate way that it can be pronounced "farv." You'd have to transpose the v and r, thus: "Farve." The way it's pronounced merely reflects a family preference.
Why is Brett Favre's last name pronounced 'Farv'? - Quora
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Brett-Favres-last-name-pronounced-Farv

http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/what-is-the-true-pronunciation-of-green-bay-packers-quarterback/article_dcfd2c19-66df-5213-b6d1-1c90b2e9554b.html

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. Mueller, not Favre.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Someone saying Mueller or Mueller saying his own name?

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Mueller saying his own name like "Meller"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. I found this

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. So you found someone else rhyming it with "duller". So what?

Isn't that a waste of everyone's time? Have you any evidence for the unusual claim in your OP?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. I really hope you aren't trying to disrespect and/or cow me because that would be a mistake.

Here are two examples of Robert Mueller being addressed as described in the seminal post. He does not correct the pronunciation:

Since he doesn't correct them we can infer he prefers that pronunciation.

Let me speak colloquially. Say a person's name the way they like it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. That's 2 more instances of rhyming it with 'duller'. None for 'Heller'.

Did you type the wrong word in your thread title? Was it an auto-correct problem?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Mueller rhymes with duller as does Heller as does Old Yeller and Bob Feller

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. No. 'Yeller', 'Feller' and 'Heller' are pronounced with a short 'e' sound

and 'duller' and the common pronunciation of 'Mueller' that we have examples of are pronounced with a short 'u'. All your examples clearly demonstrate this.

However you yourself may talk, everyone else can tell the difference between an 'e' and a 'u'.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Joseph Heller

Joseph Heller:

Robert Mueller:

Bob Feller:

Old Yeller:

&t=37s

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. Seriously, I think there's something slightly wrong with your hearing

You're posting clip after clip that show you are wrong.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. They all virtually rhyme.

Yeller, Heller, Teller, Feller, Mueller, Seller, etc

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. 'virtually'? So you can hear a difference, then?

"Virtually" normally means "not quite". It's true they're both short vowels. But if you want to say how something is pronounced, you should give something that *actually* rhymes with it, not something that's 'virtually' the same vowel sound to your ears, but not an exact rhyme.

Can you not hear a difference between "hell" and "hull"? "Dell" and "dull"?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. I was trying to illustrate he prefers the "Americanized" version of his name

Mueller as he seemingly prefers to have his name pronounced is closer to Teller as it is to Bueller.

Mueller pronounced in German:

Bueller:

I suspect on German news they use the German version.


A question.


On a scale of 1-10 how much closer does Mueller as pronounced in the U S rhyme to Heller as Bueller as pronounced by Ben Stein?

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. "closer to" isn't very helpful, especially if you claim "rhymes with"

and it takes about 10 posts to get you to say "I didn't mean rhymes with". If you'd said "rhymes with duller" (or, as BostonBean said a long time ago, "mull" followed by "er&quot , then people would have known what you meant.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. A rhyme is a repetition of similar, not identical words.

A rhyme is a repetition of (similar) sounding words occurring at the end of lines in poems or songs.

https://literarydevices.net/rhyme/


sim·i·lar
ˈsim (ə lər/Submit
adjective
1.
(resembling without being identical.)


https://www.google.com/search?q=simlilar&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS724US724&oq=s&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i61j69i59j69i61j69i59j69i61.1524j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=similar


Exhibit:


Lots of rhymes of similar but not identical sounding words.

NOT SAFE FOR WORK



"...If you'd said "rhymes with duller" (or, as BostonBean said a long time ago, "mull" followed by "er&quot , then people would have known what you meant..."

By the way argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy and in this instance you didn't even refer to a lot of people, just one.

[muriel_volestrangler]

53. Your OP was useless, by your own admission

If you allow imperfect rhymes, then we could say "Mueller" rhymes with both "fuller" and "duller". And "filler". And "pallor". And "collar". Claiming it rhymes with "Heller" gets us nowhere nearer the actually question - does it rhyme with "fuller" or "duller"?

Argumentum ad populum is what you've using yourself. You pointed to other people pronouncing words (many not 'Mueller'). No one has said that you're right. Several people have said "that's silly", in so many words. BostonBean gave an explicit way to pronounce the word *which is actually what all the examples you gave say*, and it doesn't rhyme with "Heller".

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. What part of a rhyme can be of similar sounding but not identical sounding words don't you

What part of a rhyme can be of similar sounding but not identical sounding words don't you understand?


Being the altruistic soul that I pride myself on being I'm here to help.

[muriel_volestrangler]

56. Help? You muddied the waters more than anyone on the whole subject

You introduced an entirely new way to pronounce "Mueller", claimed the man himself used it, and could produce no evidence at all for that. Eventually, we dragged out of you that you meant an imperfect rhyme, which means your OP tells us nothing whatsoever. It's a red herring. There are loads of imperfect rhymes, and your example, rather than getting us any nearer a pronunciation that someone uses, actually took us further away.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. Au contraire.

Posters are trying to make picayune arguments to discredit my innocuous observation. Not nice, not nice at all.

Heller sounds much closer to Mueller as pronounced in the examples I provided than any of the examples you provided. As an aside I can't think of any person's last name that sounds closer to Mueller than Heller. That's why I used it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

82. No. In the examples it rhymes with "duller". And "duller" does not rhyme with "Heller"

And that's true rhymes, not imperfect ones. If you couldn't think of a rhyme, there was no point in asserting a false one.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. Asked and answered. A rhyme doesn't have to have identical sounds.

Ever listen to a song?

[muriel_volestrangler]

85. Look, there are *actual* rhymes, and near rhymes

Your OP gave a near rhyme. And thus, a way of pronouncing Mueller that *no one* uses. The *actual* rhyme is like "duller".

This is a truly pointless thread. It really did decrease the sum of human knowledge, since you it wrong.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

86. I couldn't care less ...

"...This is a truly pointless thread..."



I couldn't care less if you think it's a pointless thread.





"... It really did decrease the sum of human knowledge, since you it wrong (sic)."

Could you translate that for me?

Thank you in advance.

[smirkymonkey]

76. That is how I would have pronounced it.

Any other way just seems unnatural to me. But whatever, it's not my name.

[pnwmom]

36. No, you are wrong. The words "dull" and "Hell" do not rhyme,

at least in English.

And neither do "duller" and "heller."

However, "duller" and "Muller" do rhyme. And many people seem to pronounce his name as "Muller."

The family I know with that last name Mueller goes by "Mule - er." But that doesn't mean the Special Counsel prefers that pronunciation.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. See Post 30

Rhymes don't have to be words of identical sounds, only similar.

I don't think it would be dull in Hell but that isn't a subject upon which I usually dwell. I try to do well so that isn't a fate upon which I mull.

[pnwmom]

44. Near rhymes, imperfect rhymes, slant rhymes and off rhymes are similar but

not identical.

But the common usage of "rhyme" is a "perfect rhyme" and that does require the ending sounds to be identical.

Dictionary.com

noun
1.
identity in sound of some part, especially the end, of words or lines of verse.
2.
a word agreeing with another in terminal sound: Find is a rhyme for mind and womankind.
3.
verse or poetry having correspondence in the terminal sounds of the lines.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. I never send there were perfect rhymes, just rhymes or variants of rhymes.

[cwydro]

37. No, they don't rhyme.

Mueller rhymes with duller.

Not heller. Big difference.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. See Post 30

[WinkyDink]

62. Are you not cognizant of the fact you wrote the word "virtually"? In any case, you are WAAAAY wrong.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. See Post 30

Thank you in advance.

[ismnotwasm]

22. You guys are having the best argument ever.

I actually hadn't thought about it, but I'm apparently mispronouncing Mueller



I'm waiting for the clusterfuck of the day from Trump--rhymes with clump and lump and chump.

[johnp3907]

29. Duller rhymes with Yeller?

What the Hueller you talkin' 'bout?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. A rhyme is a repetition of similar, not identical words.

See Post 30.

I define rhyme, similar, and identical and then provide evidence in a song of rhymes in which some words have similar sounds and some words have identical sounds.

[boston bean]

32. I think this is f'd up.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. It's a teachable moment.

Do you think Donald Trump will ever m(u)ll what it would be like to be in h(e)ll or in a ship's h(u)ll ?


Mull rhymes with hell and hull though hell has a similar sound and hull has an identical sound.

[pnwmom]

40. No, that is not the definition of rhyme. A rhyme is two words

that begin with different sounds, but end in the identical sound.

What you are thinking of is called an "off-rhyme," "slant-rhyme" or "imperfect rhyme, in which the words have similar but not identical sounds.

http://www.literarydevices.com/half-rhyme/

Half rhyme employs assonance and consonance to connect words sonically that do not quite rhyme. In regular rhyme, the connected words must have the same vowel sounds and final consonant sounds, such as “bug” and “mug.” Half rhyme generally uses the same vowel sounds with different final consonants or different vowel sounds with the same final consonants. For example, a half rhyme could be “bug” with “bun” or “bug” with “bag.” At times, half rhyme can be subtler than this, with similar vowels and consonants completing the connection, such as the short and long versions of a vowel, or two similar consonants that are not the same. For example, “rush” and “must” have the same vowel and very similar sibilant consonants. “Pun” and “fume” have the short and long versions of the “u” vowel, and both end with a nasal consonant.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. Oxford dictionary

A rhyme is a repetition of (similar sounds) (or the same sound) in two or more words, most often in the final syllables of lines in poems and songs.

-Oxford dictionary




"What you are thinking of is called an "off-rhyme," "slant-rhyme" or "imperfect rhyme, in which the words have similar but not identical sounds."

Thank you for proving my point. They are all rhymes. That's why they are preceded by adjectives.

[pnwmom]

48. Oxford dictionary

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/near_rhyme

near rhyme
NOUN
• Rhyming in which the words sound the same but do not rhyme perfectly.
Also called off rhyme

Your point is not proven. Normal English speakers do not pronounce Mueller like Heller. Just like they don't pronounce Duller like Heller. The vowel sound is different.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. For words to rhyme do they do they have to have identical sounds?

[WinkyDink]

63. "For words to rhyme do they do they have to have identical sounds?" YES! THAT IS THE DEFINITION!!!!!

CAT AND HAT are not pronounced as COT AND HOT!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

72. See Post 30

[pnwmom]

51. No, in the standard usage, rhyme is a repetition of identical sounds.

However, poets and songwriters often substitute near rhymes, off rhymes, slant rhymes and other imperfect rhymes for variety.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. Precisely.

And Mueller as commonly pronounced in the U S is closer to Heller than any person's last name I could come up with.

Mull is much closer sounding to hell than , say, ear.

[pnwmom]

57. No, his name is pronounced to rhyme with Duller -- which is an off rhyme,

which sounds significantly different than Heller to most ears.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. Duller isn't somebody's last name.

The exercise was about pronouncing a person's name as he or she prefers.

Up thread you said we can't know which pronunciation he prefers. That's a fair point.

I was looking for a last name that (sounds) or is reasonably close to (sounding) like Mueller.

[WinkyDink]

65. You failed. Try "Bueller."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. See post 64 and 25

Thank you in advance.



"You fail..."


I never fail, like the gentleman in my avatar.

[pnwmom]

68. Duller IS someone's last name.

https://www.google.com/#q=%22john+duller%22

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. Another attempt to discredit me using picayune examples.

Not nice.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. Heller was the only person's last name I could think of that came close to Mueller*

* as pronounced in the U S A.

[WinkyDink]

61. Rhyme is about sounds and syllables, not entire words (it could include entire words, but that's not

an essential part of the definition).

[The Wielding Truth]

83. Duller does not rhyme with Heller. It's uh vs eh.

[pnwmom]

35. People mispronounce my name and I don't correct them. There is no reason to suggest

that he prefers this mispronunciation -- just because he lets it slide.

[WinkyDink]

4. I won't; nobody else does; and if this family insists, they are being stupid. So, no.

And the same goes for the ignorant Brett Favre.

[boston bean]

8. No, I do not think so. I have ALWAYS heard it pronounced MULLER...

say the word Mull with an er at the end.

[Bad Thoughts]

24. As long as Friedrich Frankenstein does not get impatient when we first use the original

... pronunciations.

[mindfulNJ]

28. Thats

FRO-drick FRAHn-kin-steen.

[ucrdem]

27. When he tells us it's pronounced "Moliere" I'll worry . . .

[Hortensis]

45. Lol. Agree.

My gosh I'd forgotten this one. I'd download it right now, but...Woody Allen. Principles bite, and this one's really getting old. Just realized it won't help a bit if he drops dead. Sigh.

[WinkyDink]

66. Or "Milieu." Or "Mylar." Or "Melania."

[USALiberal]

42. This is one silly thread IMO. n/t

[WinkyDink]

60. Okay, here's the deal: I'll say "Meller" if you'll say the President's name as "Tremp."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. Asked and answered. See Post 67.

[True Dough]

73. I agree that OP raised a good point

because Mueller is constantly being mispronounced, but OP made a faulty comparison when he chose the word "Heller" as a close-sounding rhyme.

That would lead one to believe Mueller is pronounced like "Meller," which is still incorrect.

Oh, and I know, see posts 25 and 64. Thanks anyway!

[Doug the Dem]

74. Rhymes with Bueller, not Heller

[DemocratSinceBirth]

75. See Post 15 and 25.

[smirkymonkey]

78. The correct German pronunciation is "Moo-ler"

but with the o's very close together, as if your lips were pursed, not drawn out. It's not an easy sound for an English speaker to make.

[unblock]

77. No, no, no! It's spelled "Raymond luxury yacht" but it's pronounced "throatwobbler mangrove"

https://m.

[B2G]

79. I just lost 20 IQ points

By reading this thread.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

88. I thought you said you were leaving.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9066786


I tend to agree with your condemnation of personal attacks but isn't that what you did in the current instance?

Sad you would show more empathy for a Republican than a denizen of this board:




"Physician, heal thyself ."

[defacto7]

87. eu is an englisized spelling form of an umlaut " u "

Say an Ooo... then say an "e" without moving your lips out of the Ooo position.
Connecting the word heller in problematic because if you say heller with the same German umlouted eu as in Mueller the word means hell in German as in "die hülle rache".
In German his name is formally spelled Müller. The englisized form is usually pronounced like "mule" but he can call himself anything he wants. I can call myself Dufractoo Suhvern if I want too. Doesn't make it correct.

[SharonClark]

89. It rhymes with Duller