Bernie Sanders Can Shut This Investigation Down With One Answer.

[Persisted]

"Was an SAR filed by People's Bank?"

No? Well, then Toensing is a Republican hack.

Yes? Well. I'd get a lawyer, too.

[leftstreet]

1. Shhh. Toensing is trying get an appt from Trump

I've seen nothing about an activities report

The whole thing sounds fishy

[Persisted]

2. Well....over a year ago, Toensing alleged an SAR filing. The Obama DOJ began an investigation.

Do you think the Obama doj began a federal investigation based on the allegations of a republican hack?

Or do you think it is more likely that a filing of an SAR by The Peoples Bank would have triggered an investigation?

[Trial_By_Fire]

3. The FBI doesn't confirm or deny their investigations...

So, it appears you are making shit up!

[sheshe2]

4. Just a question.

Are they allowed to confirm or deny? I am unclear how these things work.

[Persisted]

6. The witnesses described being interviewed.....

https://vtdigger.org/2017/05/04/burlington-college-donor-says-never-signed-pledge/

[sheshe2]

10. I have read about the witnesses.

I was asking............is the FBI allowed to confirm or deny?

Quote:
Trial_By_Fire (241 posts)
3. The FBI doesn't confirm or deny their investigations...

So, it appears you are making shit up!

..............................

Thanks, Persisted.

[sarah FAILIN]

26. The way it reads to me the witness says They were interviewed.

The FBI said they can neither confirm or deny which is their usual response. Sounds like a report of the situation, not what a poster made up. Did I miss something ?

[Trial_By_Fire]

7. You could call the FBI yourself...

But, I am sure they will say "we can neither confirm or deny that we can neither confirm or deny'.

[Persisted]

9. Again the witnesses have described being interviewed by the FBI

https://vtdigger.org/2017/05/04/burlington-college-donor-says-never-signed-pledge/

[Trial_By_Fire]

17. Hearsay...

[Persisted]

21. Kindly quote the "hearsay." nt

[pnwmom]

30. You don't understand the meaning of hearsay.

When person X says he was contacted by the FBI, that is NOT hearsay.

If person X says he heard from person Y that person Y was contacted by the FBI, that IS hearsay.

In this case, more than one person has said he or she was contacted by the FBI.

[sheshe2]

11. Then it that case your post makes no sense.

[Trial_By_Fire]

16. No, the hate on Sanders doesn't make sense...

[sheshe2]

20. K

[Persisted]

5. And yet, witnesses describe being interviewed by fed investigators.

https://vtdigger.org/2017/05/04/burlington-college-donor-says-never-signed-pledge/

[Trial_By_Fire]

8. Hearsay....

And what 'fed' is the witness referring to?

[Persisted]

12. So two older donors to Burlington are lying? Please proceed. nt

[Trial_By_Fire]

18. Well I know the DU Sanders Hate Club hopes it is all true...

[Persisted]

19. What is true? Please proceed. nt

[LanternWaste]

76. I'd pretend a discussion of this case is hatred too were my sacred cow under scrutiny.

I'd pretend a discussion of this case is hatred too were my sacred cow under scrutiny.

[R B Garr]

13. oh, ffs, Jane/Bernie have lawyered up.

You are the one with the hearsay, lol.

[George II]

15. Read the article and associated articles. Your question will be answered.

[George II]

14. The FBI tells witnesses that they're interviewing why they're doing so. Appears Persisted....

....is not "making shit up", eh?

[BainsBane]

31. It's been reported widely in the press

especially in VT..

But pretend it's fake news. That's all the rage in post-truth America.

[DefenseLawyer]

22. I wonder what the response would be

If I started quoting Victoria Toensing's many crackpot statements about the "crimes" of the Clintons? But I guess the enemy of your enemy is your friend.

[Persisted]

29. You would get many recs quoting Brady's parents on the Clintons....

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511264941

a fairly simple google search on either parent would yield a surprising number of well-recced threads.

[AngryAmish]

66. The bank fraud statutes are tough and vague.

As far as I have learned...and this is absolutely minimal so if I have anything wrong be kind because I am trying to make a larger point...Bernie's wife made some statement in optimism for growth of the college.

Under the bank fraud statutes any material misstatement on a loan application can be considered bank fraud. I know a person who lied on a mortgage application, never missed a payment, got on the wrong side of the side piece of the US Attorney in my district...14 months in federal pen and lost all his licenses. Most mortgage applictions contain at least one untruth.

[SaschaHM]

24. Both are applicable.

Toensing is a Republican hack out to get Sanders.

That doesn't make what may have occurred during Jane Sanders' tenure as Burlington College president right.

I'm glad there is an investigation. I'd be glad if there were an investigation into the entire incident if Jane Sanders' was not attached. We're talking about administrative mismanagement, potentially fraud and the shuttering of a college.

[Thinkingabout]

25. I am somewhat surprised this has not already been investigated, she left in 2011 and since then

the college has closed. She apparently was not truthful in the paper work filled out for the loan, gave false information on the donors.

[BainsBane]

32. The college went bankrupt last year

due at least in part to the loan. The investigation began then.

[LOL Lib]

28. The following post is wrong. Thanks to BainesBane for pointing out my error! :)

Last edited Sun Jun 25, 2017, 12:57 AM - Edit history (1)

I am indifferent regarding Bernie. What his wife may or may not have done should be no reflection on Bernie. This is just noise to drown out the Trump/Russia saga and sow discord among Democrats. It appears to be working well. Fucking Rs are experts at trolling Dem voters. This is no different than using Bill's BJ to smear Hillary.

This has one added benefit for R leaders. Any R voters that might have supported Bernie now have something to think about. Lord knows R voters are quick to find a reason to dislike a left thinking politician.

[BainsBane]

33. Except he contacted the bank on his wife's behalf

To ask them to make the loan.

[NurseJackie]

34. Wow. That really doesn't look good. What a mess! What a distraction!

I wonder if this will interfere with his senate responsibilities and duties. I certainly hope not.

[melman]

37. Yes I'm sure you hope that

You're so terribly concerned about it. Obviously.

[NurseJackie]

42. Oh yes. Indeed. Yes I am. Terribly. I can only imagine how worrisome and distracting it must be...

...it must be difficult to remain optimistic and focused at a time like this.

The whole thing is all so sorted and complicated.

I certainly do hope it's resolved quickly.

I'll be praying.

[SMC22307]

58. Bernie Sanders to headline 'Don't Take Our Health Care' tour

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/politics/bernie-sanders-moveon-health-care-tour/

He's working with all those lefty leftists @ moveon.org to preserve Obama's signature legislation -- the ACA. Doesn't seem to be distracted in the least.

[NurseJackie]

59. Appearances are often deceiving. I must say that I admire...

... your confidence... well, that's not quite the right word, but I think you know what I mean. And I hope you understand that I do mean it sincerely.

[SMC22307]

61. I'm not confident Obama's signature legislation will be saved.

But I sincerely admire Bernie Sanders for leading rallies in PA, OH and WV to encourage people to get involved, put pressure on Sens. Toomey, Portman and Moore Capito, etc. Know of any other members of Congress -- past or present -- doing anything similar?

[R B Garr]

62. Conversely, I also don't see other members of Congress criticizing Bernie

for promoting single payer in other states when it was not even attainable in his own. No one chastises him or diminishes him or uses that glaring flaw against him. Does Bernie commend Nancy Pelosi for getting Obama's signature legislation passed? Admiration should be mutual, I'm sure you'll agree.

[SMC22307]

67. I don't really care whether Democratic politicians are sufficiently stroked by others.

What I care about is what they're doing to help We the People. I'm guessing I'm not alone it that, either. Except on DU, of course, where "feelings" really matter to some.

Other members of Congress aren't fools: Bernie's the most popular active politician in America.

I'm out... Tennison's on.

[R B Garr]

69. Obviously you do care about appearances, because you're insinuating that

Bernie is out there alone with no help, which is a really good thing for his "image" or you wouldn't be bringing it up so much as something yuuuge. I'm sure other politicians are also concerned about the "People." I see them all the time on my television.

And, lol, it's been well documented that Bernie's popularity is due in some decent measure to the fact that he is never attacked in the same way that other politicians endure. Reality.

But I guess if he wants to start off his tour criticizing the most liberal state, California, without explaining why the same plan failed in his own state, some people will clap for that, too.

[SMC22307]

82. LOL! 70% of Californians support a single-payer plan...

according to a poll commissioned by the California Nurses Association (the men and women on the front lines, yes, those who shower after work). The California Senate passed a bill that would establish single payer, but that Democratic dude what's-his-name blocked it from being taken up in the state Assembly. What, EXACTLY, do you think Bernie is trying to pull over on Californians?

You see other politicians on your television, eh? How safe. Bernie was leading enthusiastic thousands in rallies in states he doesn't *officially* represent to help save Obama's signature legislation (the one he staked his presidency on). You and every Democrat on this board should be thankful for that. Especially when Kaiser Family Foundation analysis shows unconscionable premium hikes for older workers (e.g., 70% of income in Fairbanks, AK and 31% of income in Portland, ME) and Medicaid being destroyed for tax cuts for those at the top.

Image schimage. Bernie was right on Iraq, Bernie's right on healthcare... that's what I care about. And whether other Democrats are fighting along with him to save Obamacare and help millions of Americans.

[R B Garr]

84. LOL! So typical to cherry pick anything that fits Bernie universe

and leave the rest. You can explain anytime why Vermont didn't implement single payer, but you keep ignoring that simple fact. Bernie also ignores it, so obviously explaining why his own state didn't and won't implement single payer is viewed as a negative, or he would be talking it up. And you should actually read what that 70% support in California comprises -- which is the percentage of support if there are no new taxes. It goes down when the reality of the new taxes is factored in. It's close to a $400 billion tab. So quit attacking California Democrats for considering costs. And explain why Colorado didn't vote for it either.

Do you only get your news from limited places like Russia Times? I ask that because a lot of your Bernie talking points do not factor in the reality of cost discussions that you see in normal news cycles. States like Vermont, Colorado and California are forced to deal with reality like costs, lol. Who wouldn't want free health care. How utterly hypocritical and ridiculous to scapegoat California for dealing with cost realities when Bernie doesn't explain that Vermont had the same concerns. But rallies are fun, indeed, lol. Yes, we can see him at the rallies.

And look at you reaching all the way back to Iraq to bolster his image. Iraq was started 15 years ago now by Republicans, and it wiped out the surplus that a Democratic President, Bill Clinton, left behind. Bernie never talks about the surplus left by the Democrats over 20 years ago now, if you want to go back in time. That surplus would never have gone to the Iraq war if equivalency lies weren't spread about Al Gore being just like a Republican. Enough with this manipulative revisionist history. Quit cherry picking what is good only for one politician's platform and think of the People.

You should be encouraging everyone you know to vote for Democrats to avoid the disasters you are describing.
Quit attacking Democrats. Attack Republicans instead.

[NurseJackie]

68. We'll see what happens. In my opinion, it's probably too little, too late. Wrong place, wrong time

... and so on, and so forth... if you know what I mean. (And I think you do.)

[R B Garr]

60. Yes, it looks like he's started his tour by criticizing California, the most

liberal state, on delaying single payer, although his comments don't reflect the real reason for the delay. I'm sure he'll cover why Vermont doesn't have single payer in his tour. That will be an interesting juxtaposition to hear from him.

[SMC22307]

65. He expressed "extreme disappointment" -- the horror!

"“If the great state of California has the courage to take on the greed of the insurance companies and the drug companies, the rest of the country will follow,” Sanders continued in Saturday’s statement." He's right: As California goes, so goes the nation. But enough with your lame attempt to distract...

Bernie was in PA, OH and WV trying to put pressure on Sens. Toomey, Portman and Moore Capito. Anyone who cares about Obama's signature legislation (the one he staked his presidency on) -- and their fellow man and woman -- should be thankful for that.

[R B Garr]

70. Do you really think Californians will fall for that? A Senator from a small state,

unable to implement single payer in his state of 600,000 telling a huge state of 30 Million that it's all on them. Talk about a lame distraction. I don't see any other politicians expressing "extreme disappointment" about Bernie not getting single payer implemented in Vermont.

Bernie is one of many Senators trying to save health care. I see it everyday. We should be thankful for all of them.

[SMC22307]

83. See #82.

[R B Garr]

85. See #62, #69, #70, #72, #84

Explain why Vermont did not implement single payer. Thanks.

[LOL Lib]

35. Damn...I take it all back.

My apologies. I really did not know the details and should have learned before spouting off and looking like a fool.

Thank you for schooling me. I mean that in the sincerest way. I incorrectly assumed that she acted alone.

Edited my original post to clarify that I was wrong!

[QC]

71. Do you have a source for that? n/t

[BainsBane]

72. Yes

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-fbi-investigation-for-bank-fraud-hire-lawyers/

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/339141-sanderss-wife-hires-lawyer-amid-bank-fraud-investigation


A recent Politico piece. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/22/bernie-sanders-jane-sanders-lawyer-bank-fraud-investigation-burlington-college-215297

The VTDigger has led coverage on the matter. They have written several articles on it over the past several months. https://vtdigger.org/2017/05/09/sanders-dismisses-burlington-college-allegations-political/
This summarizes the problems with Jane Sanders loan application to the bank. https://vtdigger.org/2017/04/28/former-burlington-college-employee-says-fbi-probe-relates-sanders-land-deal/

I thought I had read that there was some evidence he had contacted the bank, that the feds had requested/subpoenaed a letter he had written. But I can't find that now and it's possible I'm misremembering.

That is not to say he improperly pressured them, as the Republican alleges. The FBI appears
to be looking into that allegation as part of their investigation, but the focus of the investigation is falsification of donor support on the loan forms Jane submitted.

There have been other articles, but that's what I can find right now. A number have been posted on DU over the last 9 months or so.

Others have followed the matter far more closely than I have.

[QC]

78. Ah, it was "misremembered."

I thought the bit about the senator leaning on the bank sounded funny, as I have read pretty much all of the legit coverage of the story, though I have admittedly steered clear of the freeper stuff, since I remember the DeGenova/Toensing clan well from the 90's.

[BainsBane]

79. I did't say he leaned on the bank

I said I thought he contacted them. It's not the same thing, and Sanders has not denied doing so. You have multiple sources that verify it's a point of investigation for the FBI. Why ask for sources if you don't care?

I posted no freeper stuff.

[Demsrule86]

41. "R" voters don't vote for Sen. Sanders...they hope he will act as a spoiler.

[George II]

43. How many voters in West Virginia, either R or D or I, are likely to vote for Sanders?

[melman]

36. Apt username

Because persistent you definitely are. What are we up to now..4? 5? I lost track but it's at least 4.

[QC]

38. That poster has been banned...again. n/t

[melman]

39. For the fourth time...at least

Banned at the other place too.

[George II]

44. So who are the other three?

[melman]

53. Other three?

There's only one. Four times.


And yes, I know what you're trying to get me to do, but I'm not going to, pretty sure it's against the rules.


As I'm sure you also know, just as you know who that poster was.

[R B Garr]

54. Is that the one who was here 7 years before you joined?

I'm confused.

[George II]

57. Me too. Lots of vague references to this, that, and the other. Makes one:

[George II]

56. You said that person was banned four times. Had to have four screen names, they don't allow...

....banned members back with the same screen name.

And I have no idea who that one was or who the other three were that you referred to.

[LanternWaste]

77. "You're so terribly concerned about it. Obviously."

"You're so terribly concerned about it. Obviously."

[Hassin Bin Sober]

40. .

https://m.

[m-lekktor]

45. I was also amused at who came after me for commenting on the now banned poster yesterday.nt

[BainsBane]

48. "come after you"?

Is that what you call it when someone who doesn't tow "the party line" dares to respond to you, as though they actually have a right to speak to someone so superior to themselves? Or is it you are just you are so unaccustomed to even the most mild disagreement?

[NurseJackie]

46. I had to look up what "SAR" meant. It means: "SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY REPORT"

That was an acronym I'd not seen before. So, here's what I found when I asked Google to "define the banking term SAR"

======================
A Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) is a document that financial institutions must file with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) following a suspected incident of money laundering or fraud. These reports are required under the United States Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) of 1970. http://searchfinancialsecurity.techtarget.com/definition/Suspicious-Activity-Report-SAR
======================

[BainsBane]

49. I don't understand the point

in the OP.

[NurseJackie]

50. I think the logic of the argument goes...

... if an official SAR* has *not* been filed, then the (Brady) Toensing is just fishing and trying to stir shit and cause problems (for whatever political reasons that motivate such behavior). Since an outright denial from at least one of the parties involved would help to put the kibosh on runaway speculation, the OP wonders why such a denial hasn't yet been made.

If I've understood the OP's meaning, then she has made a good point and asked an interesting question.

Anyway, that's my guess.

----
* Suspicious Activity Report

[BainsBane]

51. Oh, I see

I haven't been following it that closely.

[Nevernose]

55. I'm not sure about the OP either

It sure doesn't seem to be about promoting Democrats, Democratic allies, and/or liberal values, nor does it seem to be about stopping Trump, Republicans, and/or conservatism.

I'm not a psychic or anything, but if I had to point to a thread that served more to divide us than unite us...

[BainsBane]

64. The dozens demanding Pelosi step down

and countless othersberating the pary, come to mind. As do the television appearances by politicians who so the same.

[R B Garr]

52. My Yahoo page is showing a current story that he knew about these fraud

charges in the middle of his campaign. He didn't think they would be a "distraction". Sad, considering how he put others down with no proof of anything.

From 10 hours ago (June 25, 2017):

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/ed116c9d-5128-3151-b918-e65d6cfc57ed/ss_sanders-responds-to-ongoing.html

[NurseJackie]

74. That's very interesting.

[karynnj]

75. What this also does is show that the OP, who has had his posting privileges, revoked is smearing

Sanders. There is NOTHING to suggest that an SAR, which occurs when large cash withdrawals or deposits are made. Note that he has made this accusation - in the form of a question or query in some places - in multiple threads.

We have seen this technique used by the right. Here, he is intentionally using an acronym to make himself seem to be more expert or knowledgeable than the rest of us. You might remember comments in 2004 that John Kerry could end the SBVT nonsense if he would release his records -- records that were on his web site for months at that point. When pushed on that -- right wingers claimed they were incomplete (obviously because they were entirely positive) I could give you a long list of similar attacks on both Clintons.

In fact, Sanders asking this question would not end the story. The questions relate to the world of Nonprofits and how they report any bequests that are to happen in the future.

[BainsBane]

80. I thought it was a for profit college?

[WoonTars]

63. How would he know? By law SAR's are filed without the parties involved being informed.

SAR's are confidential communications between financial institutions and regulators.

[B2G]

81. I was just getting ready to post exactly that.

He would not have been notified.

[Lee-Lee]

73. Actually it doesn't make one difference

A SAR is filled out when bank employees note something suspicious or unusual.

An SAR is a tool mostly designed to help authorities stop money laundering.

Not all instances of bank fraud result in an SAR. In fact by its very nature bank fraud is done to make the transaction look normal in order to get the loan. If it was suspicious enough for an SAR the loan wouldn't have been made.

The whole thing about fraudulently getting a loan is tricking the bank. Then the truth isn't found out until much later.