When did the 4th of July become Veterans Day?

[Kyblue1]

With all respect to those who have served, it seems to me that day commemorating our Independence has taken on a distinct militaristic tone. Our country is more than about our military strength. Democracy, equal rights are what we should be extolling. As Pres Clinton said we should care more about the power of our example than the example of our power.

[livetohike]

1. I had that conversation with my husband this morning.

Memorial Day is to honor those who died in service. It has all merged to be one big commemoration for those who serve now. One day, the meanings of those days will be lost. My Dad (RIP) was a WWII Navy vet. He would march in Memorial Day parades with the VFW. Not for recognition for himself, but in honor of those who died.

[Ccarmona]

2. To Quote the great Graham Nash:

"Military Madness was killing my Country".
It still is, between that and the over-the-top "Patriotism".

[lastlib]

22. Soldier worship in this country is totally out of hand, IMHO.

A soldier in the Vietnam era made the famous statement that "we had to destroy the village in order to save it." Do we thank him for his service?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

28. I agree and I'm a veteran

I served in the Army in the post Vietnam 70s.

Never had to go into combat. Yet I get an almost worshipful tone of voice from some people when I mentioned I served.

Geez! Save it for those who really made the sacrifice whether it's in the military or some other profession.

[suffragette]

73. Same experience here and I completely agree.

[tazkcmo]

76. Me too.

I served in a Basic Training unit as a supply sgt. for 5 years. Very easy duty. So easy, I'm a bit embarrassed. I'm certainly no hero. My family made more of a sacrifice than I did.

[AgadorSparticus]

38. I have always dwelt that way too but I never say anythung because most people

Think that i would be unpatriotic.

[Honeycombe8]

3. Thank you!!! I noticed that! This is INDEPENDENCE Day, not Veterans or Memorial Day.

???? It's always been about our Declaration of Independence from Britain. No offense intended to veterans, but they have two other holidays; this one was started for 1776.

[BigmanPigman]

70. I mentioned this at my family dinner since we are all from Phila.

In Phila it is all about history. You're surrounded by it everywhere: the first library, the first hospital, the first post office, etc. Our brick townhouse was built in 1885. Maybe people need to have a better appreciation of American History. I know they teach it in school. It is in the First Grade curriculum in CA anyway.

[Warpy]

4. He's a tinpot dictator installed by a coup

so of course he's surrounding himself with military brass. Next thing will be donning a fake uniform, himself.

[bluecollar2]

5. As a Veteran I was asking myself the same thing...

Frankly I'm tiring of all of this jingoism.

I think I speak for most of us when I say "Thanks for allowing me to serve"...but if you really want to show your thanks...

Call your Representative...and ask THEM to support us by fully finding the VA and VA programs.

[Wiseman32218]

19. First: Thank You for Your Service

I fully agree with you about the VA.

[LiberalLoner]

32. +1

[Grins]

62. Yes; and fund it to the point...

....where we don't need an outside group like "Wounded Warrior" to provide an additional level of service to vets needing decent lives. The U.S. taxpayer had no qualms in sending them off to (another foolish) war, so now - let them PAY for it! All of it!

[Bengus81]

93. VA hospitals should be in a class of superiority almost unknown..........

Instead once guys have been used to pimp war and as fodder they are tossed aside. My dad served in WWII and was embarrassed by all the rah-rah stuff for Veterans.

Like he said ALL him and the millions of others wanted after WWII was fair shake from the Government who called them to duty. He wanted the GI bill and benefits over a load of stupid parades and meaningless BS.

[politicaljunkie41910]

6. Since we have a president with an approval rating below 40% who needs a guaranteed audience

he knows won't heckle him, to cloak himself in, in order to make him feel good about himself. This audience he invited to the White House is the first I've ever seen in honor of Independence day. I seem to recall the Obama's being present at a Fireworks show for the occasion, in the past, but then they weren't starved for attention. Since he doesn't know much about History, don't be surprised when he just lumps all these patriotic holidays in together. Besides, he needed some encouragement from the crowd since he's heading off this week to the G-20 Summit and I don't think he will find a crowd as welcoming there, so he's got to get it where he can.

[mikeyDE]

7. the one that gets me is

Labor Day. All that flag waving when we should be celebrating the workers and unions who fought for decent working conditions.

[mikeargo]

15. Agree

And welcome to DU!

[JayhawkSD]

40. We should be wearing black on Labor Day

and flying the American flag upside down (which is a signal meaning "we are in distress&quot .

[kskiska]

44. Labor Day was supposed to be a day off

for all laborers. Not anymore. It's meaningless.

[ProfessorGAC]

95. That Will Turn Into A Veterans' Thing Too

All the holidays have practically gone there.

We even have an insurance company running commercials that basically tell the audience that if you're not a vet, don't bother us.

[Nitram]

8. The belief that only military veterans are true patriots is one characteristic of a fascist society.

[MrPurple]

13. Yeah, Labor Day has lost its meaning entirely

[Mosby]

9. since Will Smith.

[George II]

10. I'ts not the 4th of July, it's Independence Day.

[tavernier]

11. I don't mind.

We celebrate the 4th. at the Elks and veterans get to eat free, even though they usually are the ones who keep the holiday alive and bring most of the food to pass.

It's a holiday for us all, the ones who can celebrate and the ones who allow us to celebrate.

Geesh, I have no dog in this in this fight, thank God, but if my son died defending this holiday, I would like to see his credits displayed!!

[Nevernose]

20. If your son died defending this holiday

It would be either:
A) he was 250 years old
B) was already celebrated with ten percent off on Memorial Day
or
D) Died for a very dumb reason. Nobody fights for a holiday. Maybe for the values a nation supposedly represents, but more likely because they were poor and needed the college money.

[Libertarian_4_life]

85. I suppose

No one fights to protects the Independence of this nation????

[Nevernose]

86. We beat the British a while back.

So no: no one has fought for our independence for a long time. Safety and security, maybe, but not our existence.

Furthermore, I stand by what I said: only a lunatic or a fool is willing to kill or die for a holiday.

[Libertarian_4_life]

88. Holiday

Yes, I would agree. Highly doubtful the poster was referring to a holiday. More likely they was referring to the country's Independence. Not all enlist for a college fund. Some actually enlist because of a sense of duty and/or to protect our independence if the need arises.

[Nevernose]

89. My foster son is in the Army

He's not going to college, but there are some real economic advantages to the military that are mighty appealing to poor kids. I think it's usually a combination of pragmatism and patriotism.

However, we haven't actually needed to protect our independence since the War of 1812. Of the hundred-plus wars/military actions since then, they've all been wars of choice. Even when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, they were doing it because we were blockading their oil supply.

I'm glad we freed slaves and killed Nazis, but we didn't technically have to do any of those things to protect our independence.

[YOHABLO]

30. Your son, god bless him, died for the idea of every man (woman) being free

from tyranny. We're still not there yet. We have ages to go.

[TomSlick]

12. To say, AMEN, to post 5

As a retired Army officer, while I smile and say "thank you," when people thank me for my service, what I mean is that my service was my greatest honor and I am grateful for the opportunity. I am also grateful for the pension and other benefits.

Independence Day is everyone's day to celebrate the fact that this improbable experiment in a democratic republic has somehow managed to survive. More importantly, Independence Day is when we should rededicate ourselves to the personal responsibility to ensure the republic continues. All of us have an obligation to protect the Constitution against all enemies - foreign and domestic - including petty would-be tyrants.

Happy Independence Day!

[FailureToCommunicate]

59. +1

[TeamPooka]

14. thought that listening to the commentators talk covering the L.A. 4th of July parade

I was like, this isn't Memorial or Veteran's day.
next Thanksgiving will be about honoring the troops and vets too.

[Trial_By_Fire]

16. And why are there Civil War reenactments?

July 4th - you know, Independence day from England.

[Laxman]

24. There Are Civil War Reenactments.....

because July 4 marks the end of the Battle of Gettysburg and the fall of Vicksburg-both on the same day in 1863. Quite a significant day in U.S. history. That being said, the militarization of Independence Day is just another opportunity for military porn. What's next? Do we dress Santa up in a military uniform? Santa salutes the troops as he flies from the North Pole. Leading the charge in the war on Christmas.

[Nevernose]

17. I was just saying that!

It's just such obvious cynical, cold-blooded pandering. I don't understand why this shit isn't transparent, but then again, I don't understand how sixty million people voted for Trump, either.

[JI7]

18. Memorial day is about bbq

[eleny]

21. Well, let's not forget people who may have looked like this...

or similar to this...


Independence didn't come easily. It had to be a nightmare. But they did it.


Just sayin'.

[Plucketeer]

23. I'm a Vet

proud to say. I enlisted because I was nuts about airplanes and wanted to have something to do with them. Went to Vietman a couple of times - because I wanted to. But all this "Thank you for your service." baloney gets old.
Sure, I like a 10% discount, but let that be acknowledgement enough in itself. I resent feeling obligated to say "You're Welcome." over and over again. Wanna honor us? Follow in our footsteps.

Edit to add that NONE of us can even begin to fathom what those of the revolutionary war experienced. We just can't. I think our celebration of independence would be alot more somber if we had a CLUE as to what it took to get where we are.

[The Wizard]

78. Thank you for your service

is just so patronizing. It seems so insincere, and is part of worshiping uniforms that has become popular.
I tell people who say thank you for your service to write to their legislators and implore them to fully fund the VA. A year in combat made me a bit cynical, especially since I know I was neither defending the nation nor the Constitution. I was protecting the ill gotten gains of defense contractors and their congressional handmaidens.

[Plucketeer]

83. Oh man!

I don't even wanna START as to the VA! I filed an appeal about a point that THEY had initiated, but never followed thru on. My CalVet advisor said I should get some substantiating statements from my doctor - which I did. The CalVet guy sent the paperwork to the VA along with the claim they had overlooked - that was a year and a half ago. After a year, I called to see if I could maybe find out what the status of my appeal was..... "Oh - these kinda things can take as much as THREE years to get reviewed." Great, I'm 72. My heirs will be pleased with the windfall check that shows up for me!

[The Wizard]

94. I was having similar issues with the VA.

I started to turn things around with a letter to my then Senator, Bill Bradley, who had decided to quit the Senate. He took a personal interest in my case and the wheels started turning. After that I got on them like stink on shit and after three years of my persistent badgering they relented and granted me my earned benefits, benefits that Congress now has in its cross hairs so as to give the Bribing Class a huge front loaded tax cut.
Don't give up. Make them miserable and tired of seeing your case up for appeal.

[lostnfound]

25. Went to baseball game today, so over-the-top. Vapid fake lies

Found irony in the song lyrics "gonna turn this town to ashes". In future baseball games, I fully expect they will show u.s. Missiles greatest hits -- drone strikes, firefights, etc -- chororaphed with patriotic music, on the scoreboard.

[Turbineguy]

26. My view:

When we realized that the republicans would never support the needs of those who served in any meaningful way and organizations like Wounded Warrior Project sprang up to give them cover.

[jgmiller]

27. I can blame Trump and the GOP for many things

but this really isn't one of them. If you look for photos of 4th of July celebrations from the 1800's you will find tons of parades with military bands and themes. Veterans day was originally a remembrance of the end of WWI and Memorial Day is supposed to remember all of those Veterans that have died. So yes it has become that we have 3 holidays that celebrate the military but they were all created for different and specific reasons. Modern society has blurred two of them into long weekends and parties.

[bluestarone]

71. well i'm 70 and

I've always felt that labor day is definitely workers holiday Memorial day i've always felt for ALL whom have passed on (Family members) Vet day is for ALL veterans that live or die!! and independence Day for the battles for freedom in 1776!

[NightWatcher]

29. When did it become so tacky?

I've seen people wearing horrible bastardizations of American Flag apparel from their head to their USA flip flops. . It looks like the Statue of Liberty threw up red white and blue all over the place.

Celebrating is fine but do we all have to look like the infield at a swamp buggy race in Hog's Knuckle, Arkansas?

[onenote]

51. Please let us know what you feel is acceptable attire for the holiday.

And heaven forbid it be fun.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

52. Serious clothing, relating to American foods.

[xmas74]

68. I was raised to never,ever wear

The flag or something that looks like it as apparel. I was always taught it was the ultimate sign of disrespect. That includes flag pins since most are worn for fashion.
I don't get the bikinis, tennis shoes, boxers,etc.

[shadowmayor]

31. Please don't thank me for my service

I wasn't defending our constitution or your rights in Iraq. I was as Smedley Butler put it - an errand boy for Wall Street. WE are all part of a grotesque giant massacre.

Just say I'm sorry our nation keeps sending folks like you to stupid wars and be done with it.

And I too, get tired of the Veteran's Day stuff on the Fourth of July.

[The Wizard]

79. Roger that (NT)

[GulfCoast66]

33. I think some people here are projecting their hate on the current administration

On everything they can. I am 50 and I never member an Independence Day celebration without military pomp and such. The National guard was always involved. The parades always feature soldiers as well as first responders. And Shriners! Hell, even the most Iconic song played at all the fireworks show feature cannons prominently.

And I was always taught was that the Independence we celebrate was not won with the declaration but a long and costly war. I mean it has always been one of our founding narratives.

So I got no problem with it.

[ProfessorGAC]

96. I'm Not

My issue is that the vet worship is nearly 24/7 and the co-opting of every possible occasion to suggest that vets are special and the rest of everyone else is crap, is galling.

Like i said above, there is an insurance company that targets vets so aggressively that the tone of the commericals come off as "and if you're not a vet, don't bother calling." If you look up their rates, they're not even competitive unless you served in the military.

I harbor nothing against vets, but as this thread has shown, there are plenty of vets (our friend Ray being among them) who don't expect to be treated as special heroes because they spent 3 or 4 years in the army. Yet, the culture has turned it into worship.

[GulfCoast66]

97. Not disagreeing with your overall point

Just disagree on the specific example of the 4th of July which in my admittedly imperfect memory has always been closely associated with all things military.

Too many non veterans place a special virtue on veterans and then try to claim some of that virtue as their own. I agree it is very unbecoming.

Have a nice day.

[ProfessorGAC]

98. You Too!

Thanks for the civility.

[Baitball Blogger]

34. The concept of freedom is being co-opted.

I began to notice it during the Bush years. Strangest Fourth of July because the military music was more bombastic than it was inspirational. This fight we're having between conservatives and progressives is all about framing the high ground. I think we are having a national crisis of the soul and spirit. The message I'm hearing is that our military fought for our freedom, so concede, yield and put an end to individual thought.

[applegrove]

35. Maybe the right want to rebrand from happy families eating hot dogs

and watching fireworks. Maybe happy families makes Paul Ryan unhappy.

[Raine]

36. American Revolution/Revolutionary War when was the last time the 4th was referred to

with those names, I know I can't even remember. To call the holiday by those names might remind people we had a revolution and maybe another one is needed .... heaven forbid the people should contemplate that!

[WinkyDink]

37. When we stopped calling it "Independence Day."

[misanthrope]

39. One of the primary participants of that July 1776 convention said this:

"But the Day is past. The Second Day of July 1776, will be the most memorable Epocha, in the History of America.

"I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated, by succeeding Generations, as the great anniversary Festival. It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance by solemn Acts of Devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with Pomp and Parade, with Shews, Games, Sports, Guns, Bells, Bonfires and Illuminations from one End of this Continent to the other from this Time forward forever more.

"You will think me transported with Enthusiasm but I am not. -- I am well aware of the Toil and Blood and Treasure, that it will cost Us to maintain this Declaration, and support and defend these States. -- Yet through all the Gloom I can see the Rays of ravishing Light and Glory. I can see that the End is more than worth all the Means. And that Posterity will tryumph in that Days Transaction, even altho We should rue it, which I trust in God We shall not."

–John Adams in letter to Abigail, July 3, 1776

While Adams obviously understood the role of the military in their enterprise, he also knew it was more complex than that. The celebration was due for the courage in standing up to the world's preeminent power of that time. The bravery was in the stand itself, not just the military action to follow. Forging their own nation was an endeavor fraught with peril of various sorts.

It can also be seen as a celebration of the Enlightenment principles and philosophies which formed the foundation of the Declaration of Independence, for the concept of inalienable rights of self-governance. It's far more than the simplistic holiday which we've made of it.

Now it's a time when folks who come unglued at the mention of burning a flag will turn the same object into clothing or eat baked beans off its image on a paper plate. Or when those half of those swilling beer and exploding fireworks don't even bother to vote and of those who do, fewer inform themselves on issues or involve themselves in their community to much of an extent at all.

[rlegro]

41. Right you are. My example:

I go to a hardware store on July 4 (yes, they were open short hours) and at checkout was asked along with all other customers if I'd like to add 76 cents to my total as a donation for the Honor Flight organization. I said yes, but why on the 4th? I would donate to this group other times of the year, but I understand how marketers pick times for these fundraising efforts based on probable return. But it is very good to remember that Independence Day involved no military action whatsoever, but rather: The pen was mightier than the sword that day.

[Wounded Bear]

42. As "one who served" I mostly agree...

I was never sent into combat, but I served in the Vietnam Era. Frankly, if you want to "honor" someone with a Vietnam Vet hat on, tell him "Welcome home." That's how they tend to greet each other.

Funny how the "History" Channel is a swamp of reality TV shows 95% of the time, and then on this type of holiday they show war movies. I think it would be more accurate to show movies like "Grapes of Wrath" on an endless loop. The real America has a dark underbelly that folks like the Trumps can isolate from through their riches.

I get annoyed by all the jingoistic bullshit. In my mid 60's now and it gets tiresome, and it's getting worse.

[JayhawkSD]

43. I get what people are saying.

Those who are okay with it because "there have always been military in the parades," etc. Yes, I get it and I agree with you. I have been among the military that was in those parades, actually.

Those who are not okay with it because there is too much military idolization, yes, I get that too, and I agree with you too. To the guy who said "Don't thank me for my service," I hear you. If I'm in a good mood I just nod. If I'm in a bad place I reply, "I didn't do it for you."

Here's the thing. There was a time that the military was in the parade because they were there to honor the nation. Today, we seem to think that they are in the parade so that the nation can honor them. That part sticks in my craw.

[Orsino]

45. Vonnegut says that our National Anthem is the only one specifically referencing rockets and bombs.

The Declaration was merely one stop in an escalation toward all-out war. In celebrating independence, we are also commemorating a military victory.

Unfortunately, being the "greatest" of the world powers is inextricable from our culture of militarism, which leaves us incapable of celebrating our ideal of self-governance without an undertone of "suck it, Britain."

Americans give a lot of lip service to veterans as allegedly responsible for our freedoms, and often forget all the civilians whose participation is much more important.

[TomVilmer]

46. In Denmark the soldiers are handing out the flags to people to wave for them...

5th September is since 2009 the official flag-flying day for Denmark’s deployed personnel. Very few are raising their flag for the soldiers except on official buildings, and others are putting in up on half staff to honor ALL the victims of wars.
http://www.fmn.dk/eng/allabout/Pages/FlagdayforDenmarksdeployedpersonnel.aspx

[oberliner]

47. Doesn't seem militaristic at all

Mostly about eating, spending time with family/friends, being outdoors, watching fireworks.

[alarimer]

48. It's sickening.

It seems like it's gotten worse.

I was heartened, though, at the Orioles game on Friday when they sang "This Land is Your Land" instead of God Bless America during the 7th inning stretch. I was all prepared to be huffy when the intro to the song seemed like the usual patriotic bullshit. Instead, I was pleasantly surprised. (I cannot understand at all why they ALSO played "Thank God, I'm a Country Boy. In Baltimore. Which is distinctly NOT the country).

[RhodeIslandOne]

69. The Orioles have been playing "Country Boy" during the seventh inning stretch since the 70's

Don't know why, these things make as much sense as why Boston plays "Sweet Caroline".

[The Wizard]

80. This Land is Your Land

was Woodie Guthrie's response to God Bless America. This Land is your land is the most patriotic song ever written and should be the National Anthem. If it was, more people would sing along.
When Obama was elected in 08, I was at a political meeting that night. I closed the meaning with these words: "From California to the New York island, this land was made for you and me."

[Javaman]

49. about the same time the soviets rolled out tanks on May day. nt

[onenote]

50. If you think honoring veterans on July 4 is a new thing, you haven't been paying attention

President Obama hosted military families at a July 4 WH picnic most, if not all, years of his presidency.
GW Bush also attended ceremonies with/for military members on July 4.
Even Bill Clinton, in 2000, spent part of July 4 reviewing naval ships in NYC and administering the "re-enlistment" oath to a number of members of the Navy signing up for another tour of duty.

And as others have pointed out, military displays have been a part of Independence Day parades and celebrations for a very very long time.

[Boomerproud]

54. Tell that about Clinton and Obama to uberpatriots who constantly said that those two men

hated and decimated the military. Why didn't vets turn their backs on 45 on Memorial Day at Arlington like they did with Clinton?

[LanternWaste]

56. I think there's a relevant difference between 'honoring' and 'focusing primarily on...'

I think there's a relevant difference between 'honoring' (your inference) and 'focusing primarily on to the exclusion of almost everything else (the actual point of the OP...).'

[onenote]

61. Where's the evidence that July 4 celebrations focused primarily on veterans or current members

of the military to the exclusion of almost everything else?

Our neighborhood parade, which has been held for decades, featured a police car at the front (to manage traffic), members (and alums) of the high school marching band, lots and lots of kids, parents, dogs walking, riding bikes, being pushed in strollers, all festooned in red, white, and blue, and, bringing up the rear, a kazoo band. The national anthem was played at the end of the parade and everyone had cookies, brownies, and lemonade. Not one bit of it was military themed or oriented. I suspect that there are a lot of local parades that meet that description.

And nationally, the fireworks on the mall were the fireworks on the mall. The Washington National game was a Washington Nationals game -- unlike Veterans Day, where the uniforms paid tribute to the military, the uniforms for July 4 were red, white and blue themed, but without military trappings.

People see what they want to see, I guess.

[loyalsister]

53. How long have we been simulating bombs with fireworks?

To my memory, the 4th of July has always included fireworks, and has thus been about glorification of war and military.

[The River]

55. Who Was It Who Made Independence Possible?

I believe it was the citizen soldier who actually did the fighting.
It was our brand new military that forced the British to surrender.
Like it or not it was the military who made independence possible. To ignore the military involvement is to ignore our history.

[misanthrope]

90. Without Spain, France and other allies we would have lost that war for independence

They were every bit as integral if not more. Why don't we include them in the celebrations then?

[Spider Jerusalem]

92. It was France that made independence possible

the French navy won the Battle of the Cheseapeake (preventing the British from reinforcing or evacuating their troops under Cornwallis from Yorktown), and half the troops at Yorktown were French.

[niyad]

57. glad I am not the only one who sees this. it pisses me off big time.

then we have the mark wise videos, which, if real, show that many people have not the slightest idea what Independence Day is, or means.

[hotrod0808]

58. My wife and I watched The Tigers game yesterday and

it seemed the entire broadcast was a tribute to Armed Forces. To be fair, wounded warriors is a pet project of announcer Mario Impemba and I admire it. However, there were frequent cuts away from the action on the field to chat with deployed service members and such. And, it probably wouldn't have bothered me nearly at all if the bulk of them hadn't worked the phrase "make America great again," into their interview time.

[Scalded Nun]

60. This is just another indicator

That the general population in this country has absolutely no clue anymore as to this country's history or traditions. They will let their 'leaders' and the willingness of the toadie media set the stage. Not one media outlet (that I am aware of) displayed any graphic detailing the differences between Memorial Day, Veterans Day and the 4th of July, and if they did, I doubt many would have believed it anyway.

This is also another sad and unfortunate result of the GOP's successful (decades-in-the-making) attack on America's educational system.

To quote our traitorous POTUS...VERY SAD!

[onenote]

63. Anyone with a clue about the country's history or traditions

knows that participation by and recognition of the military have been parts of Independence Day celebrations for a very very long time.

[LS_Editor]

64. Memorial Day, too.

[onenote]

65. While Memorial Day honors those who lost their lives while serving in the military

Memorial Day parades featuring current members of the military have been a part of the day's events for as long as I can remember. Which is neither surprising or, in my opinion, inappropriate.

[LS_Editor]

66. By your reasoning it just as easy to make a leap with Independence Day, too.

Americans fought and died in the conflict that followed while serving in the military, too.

[mwooldri]

67. I thought it took a military to overthrow the British.

So I'm sure the military will play a part in any Independence Day celebrations.

However Veterans Day or Memorial Day it isn't.

[onenote]

72. Of course it's not Veterans Day or Memorial Day.

For example, I don't recall seeing firework stands being set up before Veterans Day or Memorial Day. Sure there is some overlap in the way the holidays are celebrated: parades, flying the flag, and, particularly in the case of Memorial Day and Independence Day, picnics and barbecues (but not on Veterans Day), but they haven't all blended into one, even if acknowledging the service of current and past members of the military is a component of all three. For example, flags are placed on the graves at most military cemeteries for Memorial Day, but not for Independence Day.

[BumRushDaShow]

75. Technically "Veteran's Day" was the renamed "Armistice Day"

from WWI (and is always celebrated on the same day every year - November 11th - like Independence Day is always July 4). The idea that this holiday was chosen to honor vets (living) made sense given that Memorial Day (originally "Decoration Day&quot honored the dead.

[onenote]

84. Actually, Veterans Day was never about honoring just the living veterans

From its origins in 1919 as Armistice Day, it was clear that this holiday was meant to honor all veterans, living and dead. Wilson's initial declaration of Armistice Day specifically stated that "the reflections of Armistice Day will be filled with solemn pride in the heroism of those who died in the country’s service and with gratitude for the victory." When it was re-named Veteran's Day in the 1950s, the declaration referred to the "millions of veterans living and dead" who have been added to the nation's honor rolls.

Thus, Veterans Day is about both living and dead members of the military services. And while Memorial Day is principally about those who died in conflict, it is not surprising that the commemoration of the event would involve living members of the services as well.

The point is that there are no hard and fast lines as to what level of military involvement/recognition occurs on these holidays or Independence Day and the concerns expressed by some on this thread seem a bit strained given the real problems we have in this country.

[BumRushDaShow]

87. Well

I didn't say that it was "only" the living. But since there was nothing outside of Decoration Day (originally to honor Civil War vets) who perished, then it made sense to go on and honor WWI & post-WWI vets too using Armistice Day.

My father was a WWII vet (his father was a WWI vet) and my mother would have been 87 this year and used to talk about people going to the graves of vets and adding flags & flowers & having a picnic on Decoration Day. And of course cities and towns have always recognized their vets in any parade for any holiday - heck look at when John Phillip Sousa composed his famous song (1896). Every parade around these holidays tends to have someone play it and vets march or ride in those parades.

I think some posters in this thread are probably expressing concern, in this era of a now almost endless series of wars, of why Drumpf's special focus on "vets" on days outside of the more traditional set-aside days. I expect it's probably because we have had 3 major conflicts in the past 25 years, plus folks are still trying to reconcile how many Americans handled (or mishandled) Vietnam Vets.

[Maeve]

74. There are people that will tell you we are only free because of soldiers

But it has also been the lawyers, the honest politicians (yes, there are such creatures!), the advocates, the journalists, the voters...it takes so much more to defend freedom than just guns!

Had Washington quit when the war was over, gone back to Mount Vernon as he planned and stayed out of politics, America might have gone the way of so many revolutions and fallen into anarchy or tyranny--meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[underpants]

77. It basically started in the 80's under Reagan

The military, especially the Army (Me - Cav Scout 90-93), had a bad image after Vietnam. Part of Reagan's act was to "restore honor and dignity to the our heroes who serve so proudly in the military" or words to that effect. It worked. Little or no criticism of the military became full on worship. If you did criticize it you weren't a "good American" (we've shortened it of late just to MURKAN) or you weren't patriotic - basically you became an outcast.

Since then it's increased. Every President has things they just have to do and other holidays including Thanksgiving and Christmas (watch any football game during that season) requires a video link to soldiers et al serving somewhere.

Basically it's free advertising and brain washing.

[StarzGuy]

81. Well, it's not just the 4th of July...

...that seems to take on a militaristic tone. Almost any of todays' so called "holidays" do also. I agree, we need to support the men and women in uniform but come on 'mericans!

[amrita73]

82. American Literature & Film set during the Civil War vs. American Lit & Film in Revolutionary Times

The popular culture reflects how ignored the Revolutionary Period is.
People understand it less, study its context less, and so on.

Literature set during the Civil War is more common and richer.
To name just three:

Little Women
The Red Bage of Courage
Gone with the Wind

Literature and film have drawn endlessly from the Civil War throughout time.
Two landmark films show the progression:

1915: Birth of a Nation* -- shockingly racist film to anyone watching today, but broke ground in purely cinematographical terms at least - film about the Civil War and racist glamourization of the KKK by D.W. Griffith

*THE VERY TITLE SAYS IT ALL: U.S. begins again, for some, in 1860, and that is unfortunate.

1939: The myth of the Moonlight and Magnolia South of aristocratic plantations owners (if you think Gone with the Wind is racist, you haven't seen Birth of a Nation)


Movies are made about Lincoln throughout time
Movies are made about Western Expansion
Movies are made about the Gold Rush



Lately, the average person on the street may have heard there's a musical on Broadway called
Hamilton.

Why is the very beginning of the nation so ignored ?

[misanthrope]

91. Because the drive for independence was a complex task undertaken by complicated humans

Their reasoning was littered with Enlightenment principles and anti-authoritarian motivations. It wasn't simplistic, jingoistic or nationalistic.

Some might say those type citizens are harder to control. Best to keep them away from such dangerous thoughts.