Calling Trump gay is homophobic

[dsc]

The joke is not that old, but it feels ancient. The Lithuanian mural atop Bruni’s piece of Trump and Putin kissing went viral over a year ago; Trump smooched a shirtless Putin on Saturday Night Live in November; and Stephen Colbert was assailed for calling Trump Putin’s “cock holster” in May. In the press, where it’s generally untoward to tease a president in explicitly sexual terms, Trump is said to have many “bromances”—attempted, “budding,” ongoing, and failed: with Tom Brady, with James Comey, with Rodrigo Duterte, with Andrew Jackson (d. 1845), with Morning Joe, with Kim Jong-un, with Narendra Modi (actually a romance, no b), with Rupert Murdoch, with Elon Musk, with Benjamin Netanyahu, with Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi, with Xi Jinping. And with Qatar Airways CEO Akbar El-Baker. And, of course, with Putin. (Trump has not, according to the press, had a ro- or bromance with Peter Thiel, who is gay and just his “tech pal.”) These references occur regularly in straight news coverage as ostensibly neutral descriptions. They’re also very, very popular with political cartoonists.

The trope is deployed not because it is novel but because it is not. It is hammered like a schoolyard taunt, with a smug assurance that Trump has been duly “trolled.” Like a lot of liberal comedy right now, it serves a fantasy of resistance through snark. (Think of Seth Rogen’s dumb Twitter messages to Donald Jr., recently glorified on Colbert’s show, or the news—ecstatically received in February and then chronicled as legend only three months later—that Melissa McCarthy had humiliated Sean Spicer.) Sexual politics aside, our glee in calling Trump gay says more about us than it does about him.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/07/10/jokes_about_trump_being_gay_draw_on_deep_rooted_stereotypes_about_gay_men.html

I know Trump drives us all insane but that doesn't excuse this behavior. LGBT citizens are one of the last groups it is publicly OK to admit you discriminate against. Recently on the View was the Colorado baker who refuses to sell cakes to gay couples. Now, let's be blunt here, if this baker refused to sell cakes to interracial couples against Colorado law he wouldn't be on the View. When you say gay is bad, which is what falsely calling Trump gay says, you give aid and comfort to those who think it is OK to discriminate against us. It is that simple.

[Not Ruth]

1. What is it called when you talk about his penis?

I have no idea what the term is.

[sheshe2]

4. Well what do you call it when....

*Ewww: Trump Talks About His Penis Size During GOP Debate*

Donald Trump succeeded in bringing a topic so personal, so incredibly private, so shockingly secret to the GOP debate stage, that I can't even believe I am typing the next sentence. He talked about his penis. Yes, he talked about how - large - his penis is. During a debate. A nationally televised, prime time, presidential debate.

His penis.

Here is how we got to Trump's penis -

Trump: "Rubio hit my hands. Nobody has ever hit my hands. I have never heard of this one.. Look at these hands. Are they small hands? And he referred to my hands 'if they are small, something else must be small.' I guarantee there is no problem, I guarantee.you."
There you have it folks, Donald Trump talking about his penis.
This is the face of the GOP.

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/03/ewww-trump-talks-about-his-penis-size

At the GOP national convention he, a Presidential Contender talked about his penis and it's size. IMHO he opened himself up to ridicule and disdain and every joke in the book. The man is not my pResident and never will be.

[classof56]

40. Yep, I watched that very exchange during the debates.

Guess I figured rRump wanted to be sure we were fully aware of the size of his penis, or he wouldn't have said that, right? Couldn't agree more with you, he opened himself to ridicule, disdain and every joke in the book. Good call, sheshe. Thanks a mil for your post!



Oh, and as always, peace and blessing to ya!

[sheshe2]

56. Hellooooooooooooo class!

So good to see you here.

When you have to make the American people be aware of the size of your penis to show what a bigly man you are and not your brain showing us that you are actually a human being that cares about the American people, then you are just a loser.

The size of your heart and your humanity is all that matters to us. Sadly you lack both.

Love you hon.

[Major Nikon]

57. Sexism

[demmiblue]

2. Apparently homophobic, transphobic, anti-Semitic, racist and misogynistic comments are ok...

when they come from 'our side'.

K&R

[BigmanPigman]

6. The thing is he can be ridiculed for so many different things that will offend someone out there.

If you call him "orange" are you racist, "idiot" are you against people with learning disabilities, ""fat" are you insulting those with weight issues, "pig" are you anti-animals, etc. the list goes on and on.

I am not condoning name calling but calling him anything will offend somebody. After all there are 325 million people in the US alone and surely the shear numbers guarantee offending a few whether or not that was the intent.

Now, on that note everyone can reply and insult me all you want.

[pnwmom]

22. It's fine to associate DT with bestiality,

but not with being gay. No real pig would be hurt by the jokes.

Making homosexuality the subject of DT jokes hurts people in the LGBT community.

[Fatemah2774]

96. Agreed

As a transgender woman I see some films where men vomit after having sex with us, or even assault, hurt and maim us.

Laughing at others is never funny.

[pnwmom]

97. I'm sorry there are people even here who don't get it. Welcome to DU, Fatemah2774! n/t

[bettyellen]

26. Not really. There's no such race as orange people. And he is a pig for sure.

[pnwmom]

68. And no pig's feelings would be hurt if he's mocked as a pig lover. n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Winner!

You nailed it is so few words. The inevitable argument which it bears is "I am so sick of "both sides do it" excuse." Well, when "boot sides" do it, then it IS a problem and it should be discussed. As far as I am concerned, I more or less EXPECT it from the right, but when it comes from MY side of the fence, it is doubly offensive, made worse when someone, usually a "privileged" person (or a pet), tells me "we have more important things to worry about", "lighten up", "you can't take a joke?", or "my (X) friend says it is OK (or the person claims to be a "X&quot ". I have said before, when it comes to the right, they are more honest because they call me a "fag" or "kike" to my face, my alleged political friends, some even claiming to be "allies", wait until I leave the room.

[cwydro]

72. Bingo.

And I have great difficulty believing any gay person would sling gay slurs. To what end? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[HopeAgain]

47. Don't forget fat shaming. nt

[lapucelle]

61. I think you're making a great point.

Early on, even on this site, there was some slut shaming of Melania over her nude photos . We did the right thing by calling it out. Similarly, the Trump's 11 year old son is also off limits.

I don't think that Melissa McCarthy as Sean Spicer quite falls in the same category. It's a dead-on impersonation and more like a drag performance to me.

Your point is well-taken.

[populistdriven]

3. Thanks for the post and reminder to keep our childish instincts under control nt

[blur256]

5. As a member of the "gay" community

I have no problem with people being described as gay. If they actually ARE gay. Or lesbian, or what have you. But when people use it as an obscenity my blood boils. I love my wife with every single fiber of my being. When people mock that.... Just no.

[yallerdawg]

7. Calling Trump gay enrages the homophobic!

It tells them WE don't have to take their shit anymore!

And WE can be just as disgustingly nasty as THEY are! No limits, no censorship, no self-editing!

Just pure instinctive provocation and confrontation! Recognizing what disturbs the hell out of those assholes!

And what gets their attention!

Remember how appalled we all were when we heard: "We're here! We're queer! Get used to it!" In the face of guaranteed death?

It got our attention and has been reverberating ever since!

Let's stop bashing each other and get to bashing the real villains!

[Behind the Aegis]

9. So, using homophobia is OK because the ends justify the means.

Let's stop bashing gay people and bash the REAL villains!

[yallerdawg]

12. Homosexual images and references disturbs the hell out of homophobes!

That was the intention of picturing Putin and Trump in a deep soulful kiss! It's a mockery of their and their supporters homophobia!

Not to demean gays! It is not homophobia to depict a Trump/Putin kiss!

To disturb them - for no good reason! Just 'cause it disturbs and provokes them!

[Behind the Aegis]

13. And I am telling you, it is using homoseuality as the BUTT of the joke.

STOP IT!

Yes, it DEMEANS gays and THAT is the problem.

Don't presume to tell me what homophobia is and isn't.

If THIS is the best you can muster to piss off the right, then it is NO better than they are.

[yallerdawg]

15. It's NOT a joke!

It's a provocation, it's a response, it's a scream of rage!

The 'Putin/Trump kiss' comes from a society where they are imprisoning homosexuals and vilifying them without remorse!

They have to know - just like our homophobes - that THEY are the joke and WE are mocking them without reservations, as dangerous as it may be for some!

Take this away from us - silence our reactionary impulses - pretend we are all past homophobia and misogyny and racism - and all we have is polite, respectful argument? So we don't offend ANYONE?

That is ignoring what gay activists did in the face of an American society that would let them die rather than help!

Sometimes raising holy hell is the way to WAKE PEOPLE UP!

[pnwmom]

19. If you want to provoke him, then show him kissing a warthog or a goat.

Don't provoke DT by associating him with LGBT people.

[mr_lebowski]

33. Or maybe 'the joke' ... is that Trump & Putin REALLY REALLY LIKE EACH OTHER ...

So much so, it's like they're in love.

But with no actual 'disrespect' to the LGBT community intended whatsoever.

Ever think of that possibility?

Or is it more satisfying to get all knicker-twisted, insisting that 'the most offensive possible meaning I can come up' (i.e. "the artist is implying there's something wrong with homosexuality!&quot ... must be a true and correct interpretation?

The cock-holster remark is similar insofar as it's NOT inherently anti-gay in any way, what it is ... is a bash of his subservience to Putin.

Ask yourself, if someone was to comment on KellyAnne going out on a Sunday AM talk-show Fawning Tour for Trump, and someone said 'Boy she sure got out her knee-pads today!' ... would you think to yourself 'Shut up you HETERO-BASHER!'

Of course you wouldn't. You might take SOME kind of offense (cause EVERYTHING is offensive to SOMEone) but it wouldn't be sexual-orientation-related, would it?

If one's own true attitude is 'there's nothing wrong w/gayness', then I don't even see how they come to the conclusion 'these images/sayings denigrate gayness'. I might ask them to consider what is that they are bringing to table that's causing them to interpret these things ... the way that they are choosing to. Cause ... I don't see 'em that way at all.

JMHO, fwiw.

[pnwmom]

48. You don't intend disrespect but the effect is still to denigrate the LGBT community.

Are you okay with offending a substantial fraction of gay people because you think it's such a great insult for DT?

Are you okay with gay teens coming of age in that atmosphere? Where their orientation is used to mock detested politicians?

[TheFrenchRazor]

58. no; anybody that doesn't get that this is insulting either doesn't want to get it, or just doesn't c

doesn't care whether they insult gay people or not. that's your right of course, but please don't even try to act like using "gay" as in insult is not offensive to gay people.

[obamanut2012]

78. This exactly

[mythology]

31. It's childish and bigoted. Grow up

Calling Trump gay is a slap in the face to the LGBTQ community.

[obamanut2012]

77. No, it is a joke, and it is mocking and degrading us -- STOP IT

And, quit doubling down and educate yourself.

JFC.

[HAB911]

89. We are not going to win this argument

and we may never win another election either

[cwydro]

125. It's bigoted. It's puerile.

Shame you can't see that.

[HAB911]

88. I just had this conversation twice

The first was about Lindsey Graham, someone called him "Miss Lindsey" and the shit hit the fan. Personally I think he is asexual and whatever he and Trump are, I don't care. I want to know how anyone knows he isn't bisexual.

Why is mentioning their sex off limits? I would make the same jokes about Melanoma and Ivanka if they fawned over Putin the way Trump does

One reason we will never win another election, we refuse to get dirty.

Go ahead, slap me around.

[obamanut2012]

76. YOU ARE MOCKING AND DEGRADING OUR COMMUNITY WHEN YOU DO THAT

Just STOP it.

[NurseJackie]

94. This is very similar to how my son explained it to me when I asked his opinion...

... only he doesn't even see it as trying to "disturb" or "provoke" Trump/Putin. Instead it's more symbolic.

=====================
"Not to demean gays! It is not homophobia to depict a Trump/Putin kiss!"
=====================
I can't quote them word-for-word, but my son and son-in-law think it's less about anything gay and more about the symbolism of the *cozy* *political* *relationship* between Trump and Putin. If this has been artwork of a Hillary/Putin kiss... in protest and to symbolize some cozy arrangement that transpired between the two... would people be outraged?

Basically the message is that Trump and Putin are "in-bed-together" (so to speak) and not to be taken LITERALLY that they're secret homosexuals.

Anyway, when they were explaining it to me, it made more sense (and less wordy) than how I'm trying to re-state it above. But I think I've expressed the same sentiments they have.

This is one subject on which I'll fall squarely in the middle. I can understand arguments from both sides, I can be sympathetic to both sides... but in the process of being sympathetic to one, I'm not prepared to invalidate the other side.

I certainly hope this isn't used as a "wedge issue" to divide our party even more than it already is.

[TheFrenchRazor]

38. exactly; it's the end justifies the means; thing is, there are so many legitimate means to insult

certain repugs, you have to wonder why some people deliberately choose ones that insult people who do not deserve to be insulted.

[demmiblue]

11. .

[pnwmom]

16. "Remember how appalled we all were when we heard. . . " You must be straight or you wouldn't

have said that.

Please don't tell gay people that it's okay for straight people to enrage DT by using homophobic photos or slurs. It is NOT.

[sarisataka]

17. If you are

just as disgustingly nasty as the assholes, how can people determine you are any better than the assholes?

[demmiblue]

21. I know the answer to that!

[Gore1FL]

24. I see where you are going with this, but there are better ways of doing all of these things.

Let's infuriate the homophobes by pushing for lgbtq rights. Let's humiliate Trump by making fun of his actual actions and policy positions.

There is so much material out there, we don't have to make things up--especially things that have collateral damage attached.

[uppityperson]

25. Who is the "we" appalled by "We're here! We're queer! Get used to it!" ?

[cwydro]

116. I wondered that too.

Sadly, the answer is becoming clear.

[obamanut2012]

75. Oh great, so it's okay to degrade our community to hurt the RW

Just stop.

[LostOne4Ever]

10. Being Pro-LGBTQ seems to only be a means to an end to some

We need to end these homophobic memes!

[madinmaryland]

14. What the FUCK are you talking about?? tRump is homophobic, but in no way is he gay

I don't know what the hell you have been smoking. tRump IS homophobic, and also a misogynist, racist, bigot, and a short fingered vulgarian.

SMH.

[pnwmom]

18. Please reread the OP. DSC is saying we shouldn't be using homophobic slurs against DT,

because it is hurtful to the LGBT community.

And DSC is right.

[HipChick]

23. tRump is hurtful to population at large..

[bettyellen]

27. Which is part of why calling him gay to slur him is fucked up.

[obamanut2012]

79. Quit attacking DSC who is, you know GAY and is tired of people mocking our community

Reread his OP then apologize to him.

[m-lekktor]

20. K and R!

[NurseJackie]

28. My son and his husband think it's okay...

... are they homophobic? Who should I trust?

[dsc]

29. If a black person thought it was OK to call Carson the n word

would that make it OK?

[HipChick]

32. One black person does not represent all black people

[dsc]

37. but apparently in your mind one or two gay people represent all of us

Of course, you wouldn't except the n word example, because we all know that the n word is something no one can do without serious reprecusions. But anti gay stuff is OK for all too many people.

[HipChick]

41. There you go again...

Making up assumptions and generalizations..

[dsc]

45. so you would accept calling Carson the n word?

The rest of what I stated is from your own posts. You, not I, but you, stated that if one person called Carson the n word he or she would be unrepresentative. Yet, on the basis of two saying calling Trump gay was A OK that was A OK with you and that I was some sort of deranged Net Nanny. But again, I don't think you would tolerate calling Trump racist names because no liberal can tolerate that. Even conservatives largely have to pretend they don't accept that. Anti gay stuff on the other hand, no pretense is necessary.

[pnwmom]

53. But most gay people are hurt and offended by gay photos or slurs. So it's not worth hurting

all those people just because some others profess not to be offended.

[HipChick]

30. I'd trust my family.....

My family think it's ok too....I never know why folks seem to need to police what folks want to post..

[mythology]

35. There is the fact that it's a bigoted slur that hurts many here

And has absolutely zero impact on the so-called target. Also it's frankly incredibly childish to still be using gay as a slur in 2017. Fortunately my family taught me better than to lower myself to the standards of people like Trump.

[NurseJackie]

49. Thank you.

[pnwmom]

51. If your family thought racist jokes were okay would that make them fine, too?

There is no difference.

[Ms. Toad]

64. So it's perfectly OK with you if I freely use the N word as an insult?

As a lesbian, I am NOT ok with being used an insult.

I would be thrilled not to have to police anyone, but unfortunately people around here seem to lack the basic respect for members of the LGBT community who have repeatedly asked that we not be used ad an insult - regardless of who the target is. As it is, I can barely get through a page in GD without running into at least one post that implies that I am disgusting.

[pnwmom]

50. A significant number of gay people would be hurt and offended. Is it worth the risk

of hurting them because people aren't imaginative enough to find better ways to attack DT?

My father would have been deeply saddened, if he were alive; and his partner is, I know.

[SaschaHM]

55. I wouldn't say that they are homophobic, but as a gay man myself...

I've seen straight allies straddle the line of homophobia when it comes to Trump. I think context matters in all situations and while I wouldn't say saying "Trump is gay" is automatically homophobic, I'd say it was if the context insinuated being gay was a thing to be ridiculed. It's akin to the classic "That's gay" when referring to something negatively.

[bettyellen]

69. Nash,it means that for whatever reason they're not that offended by slurs...

Doesn't make them cool. Especially not here.

[NurseJackie]

86. I think they're beyond wanting to appear to be "cool".

[bettyellen]

87. By cool I meant socially acceptable. Slurs create a hostile atmosphere and it can

Become a slippery slope where all out bigotry becomes normalized. I'm happy we have a corner of the Internet where bigoted jokes and sexism are not the norm- I think it's key to being inclusive. It's got little to do what individual women, POC or LGBT have decided they are okay with - usually that's because you have to "go along to get along" not because they jokes are so darned entertaining.

[pnwmom]

98. Imagine how your son might have felt at age 10 or 12, coming to terms with being gay,

and hearing homophobic slurs and seeing homophobic images.

Your adult son now, secure in his relationship with his partner, is "cool" with it.

But can't you see that many sensitive younger people -- and even older people -- might be hurt by it?

[NurseJackie]

99. See this...

... here's some follow-up comments. Maybe it will help you to understand. Maybe it will make you angrier at me. I don't know. But... there it is anyway. Take it or leave it, I think that's about all I have to say on this matter, and it's likely that my opinion, and where I land on this matter will make ABSOLUTELY NOBODY happy.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9312531

[pnwmom]

101. I understand what you're saying. The point I'm trying to get across is that young people

are by definition not as mature as your adult son.

And they're much less likely to be able to understand the subtle distinctions that make this okay with your son, as a secure gay man.

[AtheistCrusader]

91. I believe you already know the answer to your question.

You'll find no false validation/comfort here.

[Kablooie]

34. Yes, but I can sure call him a big dick!

[Egnever]

36. When the intention is to shock

How will it be done when everything shocking is forbidden?

You are right it is homophobic..that is exactly it's intent.

[LaydeeBug]

39. I disagree.

Some of us actually might think he's gay. I have no problem with gay. Like not to describe his admin or anything, but I think Donald Trump is in the closet. He hires men according to their "look". I'm not making that up. He has a type that he likes. I think he *is* at the very least, bisexual, but honestly, I think he might be gay.

Really. I do. I think he has a crush on Putin. I think he has a subconscious crush on Obama.

*I* don't think that's a bad thing. I just think it's a thing.

[HipChick]

43. Interestingly...my mother has said the same thing from Day 1...

Everything else..trophy wives are beards or compensating..

[dsc]

46. Of course

straight folk can never be the ones at fault for anything. If someone is evil, they can't be straight.

[Heddi]

100. His perversion? You're calling someone you just say you think is bi or gay

"perverted"???


Here is your post...please point out which of these activities that you ascribe to Trump are "perverted"

Some of us actually might think he's gay. I have no problem with gay. Like not to describe his admin or anything, but I think Donald Trump is in the closet. He hires men according to their "look". I'm not making that up. He has a type that he likes. I think he *is* at the very least, bisexual, but honestly, I think he might be gay.

Really. I do. I think he has a crush on Putin. I think he has a subconscious crush on Obama.

*I* don't think that's a bad thing. I just think it's a thing.

---

What part is the "perversion?" (Your words):

Is it being gay? Because you mention several times that he's gay, and in the closet, that he hires men for their look, that he has a type that he likes (according to you)

Is it being bisexual? because you mention that as a distinct possibility as well

But then you're back to him being gay.

But then you say it's not a bad thing, then a post later you go on about his "perversions."

Please. Which of the attributes you listed above (being gay, being gay and in the closet, having a "type" of man that he likes, being bisexual) are perversions?

[cwydro]

103. Excellent post.

Was your post answered?

What a revealing response that was; glad you caught it.

[Heddi]

104. Hell no it wasn't answered

The amount of outright homophobic bigotry in this thread, couched with "but my gay best friend is okay with it" or whatever nauseating bullshit excuse is offered makes me wonder what the fuck state our party is in when avowed Democrats think it's hunky dory to insult someone by insinuating that the person is gay tee hee hee because gay is YUCKY and STUPID and INSULTING. But not GAY gay...just, like the OTHER kind of Gay that's okay to use as a slur. Besides, my best friend had a gay experience in college so it's all cool, amirite?

[cwydro]

110. Thank you.

Not in the least surprised your post wasn't answered.

Again, it was a perfect post.

[Behind the Aegis]

118. So nice to see you aagin, even if under these circumstances.

I guess we will have to add to the list of excuses I created above. Apparently, "the ends justify the means" is a popular excuse to "fight homophobia with homophobia". It's "fucking for virginity" type "logic", that is to say, it is BULLSHIT!

to you!

[Heddi]

121. but but but

see, their gay friend doesn't have a problem with it, ergo, therefore, henceforth, i.e. you shouldn't either.

[beam me up scottie]

107. Outstanding post.

This is one of the reasons why I don't spend much time here anymore, once we start adopting the enemy's tactics and defending homophobia we're no better than they are.

Some posts on this thread are shameful.

"I have a gay relative so I'm qualified to declare homophobic slurs are acceptable ".

Isn't that like using the 'I have a black friend' excuse?

[demmiblue]

130. You certainly are tethering that chicken...

around your own neck.

[beam me up scottie]

131. !

That was awesome.

[demmiblue]

133. Well thank you, bmus.

[LaydeeBug]

132. Nice try. No dice.

But please proceed...

[demmiblue]

134. I will proceed. Will you?

[melman]

135. Ha

What a shame.

[Voltaire2]

137. DU should have a "upvote" for posts in threads!

[obamanut2012]

80. Just stop -- this is so insulting to us

[melman]

85. Is that so?

Because you insisted this was not what you meant when you said "Does *gay* bother them? It does. Shove it in their fucking face."

[Croney]

42. The pot calling the kettle black

is racist because it implies that being called black is an insult. Joking about Drumpf being gay, when we know he's not, carries the same implication.

I roll my eyes at all the penis-size jokes. I get that men think that's a very important measurement, but as a woman, I just agree with Elaine Benis, who said, "I don't know how you guys walk around with those things." I don't care what size Dumbo's penis is. It's more important that he has a pea brain.

[Victor_c3]

44. If I thought the word "gay" was an insult, then I would probably use it

I totally understand your point and agree with you. Calling trump "gay" is not appropriate for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

[rzemanfl]

52. Calling him human is an insult to the species. n/t

[Marthe48]

54. I don't think trump is gay

I think he is an opportunistic pervert that would do anything for his own pleasure. And I mean anything. I was wondering the other day what the reception would be if the russian pee prostitutes turn out to be men?

trump isn't gay. He is Jabba the Hut.

I wouldn't insult any human by comparing trump to him/her.

[cwydro]

59. And some right here think it's perfectly ok.

Sickening.

[obamanut2012]

81. Well, some say they have a gay relative who thinks it's funny

So, we need to get over feeling demeaned and mocked.

[cwydro]

84. I absolutely find it extremely difficult to believe a gay person would use gay slurs.

Why would they do that? Self-hate?

Not only is it bigoted, it's incredibly childish.

[Heddi]

113. I think it's a case of...

"well black people can call each other a variation of the N word, and gay men can call their friends fags/queens, so THEREFORE, it's okay if *I*, a non-black person or a non-gay person uses those same terms, right?"

I'm a bisexual woman. I have a LOT of gay friends. Gay, lesbian, transgender, gender fluid, nonbinary, Queer, asexual, none of the above....

There is a parlance that folks within the same group have with each other. My gay male friend can call our other gay male friend a Queen, but I cannot call any random gay man I meet a queen. I"m not in that group. We're not friends. We don't have that level of intimacy. Not to mention that I, personally, don't use the same "terms of endearment" that my gay male friends do with each other because I"m not a gay male. I'm not African American either, so I don't use certain terms or expressions they use amongst themselves.

I think some people are using the old "well my best friend is _____, therefore I can't be bigoted" horse-shit story, and also misunderstanding that people within a group can use terms within that group that are considered hostile/bigoted when used by people outside the group. Again, I bring up the "n-word" and its variations used amongst some people in the black community. I bring up again the example of the word "Fag" or "queen" or "dyke" when used between members of the GLBT community between friends. Completely different than if a straight person calls another they perceive/know to be gay a fag, or a queen, or a dyke.

You'd think this would be obvious in 2017 but.....

[cwydro]

117. You got it.

Nail on head.

[loyalsister]

92. Frustrating

I just had a conversation about the fact that using sexuality, disability, and body presentation are still okay among people who would jump on anyone who used race of gender as insults. Although I expect to hear it from our side by now, it's still always disappointing

[MFM008]

63. He would be LUCKY

To be gay....
It might help him achieve some class and good taste.
maybe empathy.
All things he sorely lacks.

[Barack_America]

65. And dumb. Dude is offensively hetero.

[DemocraticWing]

66. Agreed.

Homophobes exist on our side too, and even internalized homophobia allows a lot of people to excuse this nonsense.

[pnwmom]

67. I'm sad that so many otherwise thoughtful people disagree with you.

I wish they could put themselves in the shoes of a 13 year old hearing these jokes, who's just coming to terms with being gay.

[cwydro]

73. There is certainly a contingent on DU who delight in using these slurs.

No matter how they may try to rationalize it, it's puerile and homophobic.

[Ezior]

70. I'm gay, and I'm not offended. The penis size suspicions though...

Let me explain.

I AM offended when someone calls something/someone just "gay" in a way that makes it clear he doesn't like that thing/person. "oh, that car is so gay" = homophobic.

The various Trump bromance memes are different though. They focus on the relationship between Trump and e.g. Putin, which appears to be "special" in some way. It just so happens that Putin is male, so if the relationship is a romantic one (which of course it isn't, but that's the joke, right?), it must be a gay relationship. That's not homophobia! If the Russian leader was female, then we'd have the same memes with a hetero romance. So the jokes actually help to overcome heteronormativity in some way. At least that's my take on it. Same for the "cock holster" thing. The bromance is implied, which does not offend me (as explained), and there are sexual connotations that imply that Putin is the boss, which is arguably the case in this "special", non-romantic relationship. I thought it was funny and not homophobic, though definitely a sexist joke.


There is one thing that DOES offend me a little bit. Joking about Trump's suspected penis size. I have learned to deal with this though, since these jokes have been quite common for a long time, so don't worry about it - "fuck my feelings". I have a smallie but it's working perfectly and I actually prefer smaller penes.

[moda253]

114. Love this response.

[Gravitycollapse]

115. Referring to someone as a "cock holster" is the definition of homophobia.

There's a lot of latent homophobia in the critiques of Trump probably stemming from his own campaigns homophobia. The latter does not justify the former.

I am offended and I say that as a member of the LGBTQ community.

[BlueStater]

71. Sorry. I'll keep ridiculing the asshole any way I want.

I've never personally seen the Putin thing as being homophobic. The joke is more that he's a Putinsexual than that he's gay. I've never joked about him being gay with anyone else.

[obamanut2012]

82. So, it's okay for you to demean and insult and mock the LGBT community

Gotcha.

With "allies" like you, we don't need enemies.

[BlueStater]

95. I'm completley crushed.

Congratulations. You get to feel all superior to people you know absolutely nothing about. Try not to get a sore back from patting it so much.

I've done nothing but support gay rights. The only person I've demeaned is that waste of flesh in the White House.

[cwydro]

123. Demeaned by inferring he is gay...

Amirite?



Good lord, you don't even see what you're saying.

[obamanut2012]

74. Cosign this -- am tired to death of this

[Orrex]

83. An insult often plays on the sensitivities of the target, rather than those of the insulter

It can be an effort to undermine Trump in terms that resonate strongly for him, namely his self-perception as the archetype of the virile and dominant heterosexual alpha male. This is true even if the person who uses the insult doesn't think that being called gay is insulting.

However, I would say that insulting him in this way is generally a greater insult to LGBT people than to Trump, and if it causes harm or discomfort to the LGBT community, then it should be rejected. There are people who can deploy that insult effectively, but they are very rare, and I am most certainly not one of them.


Disclaimer: I'm just a generic white cis male, so I take my cues on this from people who actually have the experience and credibility to give an informed opinion.

[HAB911]

90. If Gay Guys/Gals Said the Shit Straight People Say...

Is there a prohibition about sex?

[cwydro]

105. Omg this is fantastic.

Maybe it'll get through to some who think bigoted, middle school insults are ok.

Thanks for posting it!

[LexVegas]

93. Rec. nt

[Heddi]

106. HA HA HA PRISON RAPE IS FUNNY

amirite? I mean the idea of a MAN being raped by a MAN. Omg. It's like....hold on, I'm about to pee my pants because RAPE---omg. It's like, why can't everyoen we hate be raped, amirite???

And Prag--omg. PRISON FAG> Omg. GAY RAPE. omgomgomg. I can't stop laughing at the idea. Not ONLY is it great to use GAY as a slur and insult, but PRISON RAPE too. Wow.

I'm gonna ask you a question...and you don't have to answer...but are you a comedy writer because YOU SHOULD BE. This is like MOnty Python meets Benny Hill meets Mel Brooks meets, um, some other totally funny person

ROFL ..... RAPE> HOMOPHOBIA!!! I'm wiping the tears from my eyes because this..omg. we should get together a bunch of 5 year olds to stand outside the whitehouse and call him a PRISON FAG THAT SHOULD BE RAPED because THAT WOULD BE COMEDY GOLD



fucking sickening shit here, folks.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prag
prag probably originated from the HBO series Oz and probably means stands for PRison fAG. but it for sure means prison bitch.
Tyrone: i see you don't ever take up for yourself around here. now why dont you be a good prag and suck my dick?

Antwon: Fuck you man i aint nobody's prag

------

Jury, this is the post I"m responding to:


Response to dsc (Original post)Tue Jul 11, 2017, 02:50 PM
ImpeachTheGOP (23 posts)
102. No one is calling him gay, we're calling him a whore.

Or a prison prag.

You're not necessarily gay, you're either getting paid or you're being forced. In the Comrade's case it's a little of both.

[Heddi]

109. You calld him a Prag

a prison fag

you called him a whore.

You said:

"ImpeachTheGOP (24 posts)
102. No one is calling him gay, we're calling him a whore.

Or a prison prag.

You're not necessarily gay, you're either getting paid or you're being forced. In the Comrade's case it's a little of both."

So he's a whore, and he's being raped.

Oh, that makes it much better then. He's a prison fag, who is a whore, who is being raped.

Well that clears THAT hateful bit of homophobic rape apology up. NOw it's just Homophobic bigotry. I see.

[Gravitycollapse]

112. You literally referenced a homophobic slur that comes from prison rape.

Do you know what prag means? Another poster has already explained it. It refers to a situation where a prisoner is raped by inmates or guards.

[ImpeachTheGOP]

124. You know what? Forget it. I'm sorry.

I withdraw the comment.

[Gravitycollapse]

111. Prison rape is a horrific crime that isn't funny in the slightest. Slut shaming isn't funny either.

[AtheistCrusader]

119. It's discouraging to see this shit here, but it's simultaneously encouraging to see people stand up

and call out this language and behavior for what it is.

Thank you.

[Behind the Aegis]

120. Never thought it would need to be said here, but...

HEY! HEY! HO! HO! HOMOPHOBIA HAS GOT TO GO!!

[Heddi]

122. It is sad it has to be said here

but not surprising. There has always been a very nasty undercurrent of homophobia-is-okay-as-long-as-it's-OUR-homophobia.

I remind you of the number Seven, and the sheer havoc just MENTIONING that word/number had on the LGBT community of DU.

[beam me up scottie]

126. Agreed, we're supposed to be better than this.

I get that some people just can't grok how insulting it is to use homophobia as a weapon against our enemies because not everyone understands nuance, but when members of a minority tell you over and over again that it's disrespectful and it HURTS that should be enough for any decent person to stop. It costs nothing to be sensitive to pleas from groups that are marginalized. Why argue the point?

[Voltaire2]

127. thank you.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

129. Malcolm Gladwell's Revisionist History has a segment on...

"Switchtracking"

It would seem to apply here.

[demmiblue]

136. .