I live in a "food desert" area of my city...

[inanna]

Believe it or not, it is in the heart of the downtown core. There are no grocery stores to speak of for miles around.

We're dealing with some pretty bad urban sprawl around here. All the major shopping centers are developed near the big box stores on the edge of town. It's okay if you have a vehicle. But I don't, and so it's a major pain in the ass to get decent food into the house. I've been managing though it's extremely inconvenient.

There's a convenience store across the street - but the guy gouges on nearly every item in the store. Everyone in the area is fed up with this trap. We all gripe about the high prices and lack of decent grocery shopping.

The downtown is slowly beginning to show signs of life again after being on life support for years. There's a few cool coffee shops, a really neat bar across the street and some excellent eateries. But again...the grocery thing.

A few weeks ago, I ran into an acquaintance who lives close to me. She is a very neat lady. We both have dogs. We both hate the shopping situation downtown. She was so excited to tell me about the new market opening up - right around the corner from my apartment. She told me to keep an eye out for the big opening.

Unfortunately, I missed the first market day. But I got a chance to go in today after work. Place was packed - and everyone was chatting to each other about how awesome this all was.

I was bowled over! FRESH VEGETABLES! Bought some organic broccoli, fresh mushrooms, some beautiful tomatoes and potatoes. The potatoes are a special treat for me. Might sound strange...but I've been stuck buying frozen stuff like hash browns and french fries, since a ten pound bag of spuds gets a bit arduous to lug home on the bus.

Also picked up some sunflower seed bread and farm fresh eggs. What a delight to have such a basic thing so close to me now.

More cities with food "deserts" need to start thinking along these lines. People need to be able to buy basic foodstuffs close to where they live. When the option is there - they'll use it.

It's not just about the food either. There's a very real and important social/community component to it.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

1. The downtown area of most cities have no grocery stores.

And it's possible the convenience store owner isn't so much gouging anyone as being forced to charge high prices because he may well be paying an exorbitant rent.

For a number of years I had no car. My grocery store was about three blocks away. Not far, but when you need to carry everything you learn to consider each trip very carefully.

You are absolutely correct that grocery stores need to be willing to go into such areas as yours.

[inanna]

2. We used to have a major chain right downtown for years.

Last edited Wed Jul 19, 2017, 06:22 PM - Edit history (1)

I can look out my window and see where it used to be. It was an A&P. It was there for years, and used to be open 24 hours.

Everything started to change when Wal-Mart came to town....early nineties.

The A&P closed about a decade ago. Since that time there have been no groceries in this part of town.

What a welcome change to be able to walk around the corner for grub!

And yeah, toting everything home over a distance is pure hell - especially in the winter time!

[Blue_true]

23. Grocery stores follow the money.

I can assure you that if an area in downtowns have people with lots of income, that area will get a top grocery store pronto. I have never seen that not happen.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

31. This may possibly bring up the question of why

would someone who has a choice be willing to live in a downtown without a grocery store.

The answer, I well know, is complicated. Many, many years ago, as in 45 plus years ago, I lived in the downtown of a city whose name you would all recognize, but doesn't particularly matter at this point. Back then, the rent I paid was the same as I'd have paid in any other part of that city, but the convenience of living within walking distance of my job (I didn't own a car) was important.

There was no real grocery store in that neighborhood. I managed on a very limited income because I was exceptionally frugal, only spent what I needed to, and was willing to live on a very limited budget. Including a limited food budget.

All these years later, were I to find myself living in a downtown area I loved but was otherwise a food desert, I'd figure out a way to shop for food outside that area. I'd drive or use Uber. And I'd be very happy once a real grocery store showed up.

[Blue_true]

32. A lot of people would make that choice. I don't live in one,

but I just love town and city centers. Occasionally I see cases where the political powers have a good plan for such areas.

[OnDoutside]

3. With so many villages in the UK and Ireland losing their local shops, the idea of the

Community shop is taking hold.

In the seaside village where we spend our summer weekends, they set up a community shop last year and it is still going really well.

Here are some links

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/social-enterprise-blog/community-shops-big-business

and

http://ruralcommunityretail.com/interested-in-starting-a-community-shop/

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/first-of-its-kind-community-shop-in-courtmacsherry-gets-green-light-377270.html

https://www.facebook.com/Courtmacsherry-Community-Shop-941820119243369/

[inanna]

5. Oh this is wonderful!

Thanks for these links.

From the Guardian link:

>> "We'd all seen neighbouring villages become soulless commuter communities after their village shops closed, and we were determined that Grindleford wouldn't follow in their footsteps," says Battarbee, who's played a central role in the revival. <<

So true. And it's been happening everywhere!

This market I mention in the OP is situated in an old three story furniture shop. The place is huge, has beautiful hardwood floors. The only real upgrade to the building were the garage doors they had installed to open it up out onto the street. It's awesome!

When I spoke to the operator today, she said she was astounded by the overwhelming enthusiasm locals and vendors are showing over this. We spoke for about 1/2 hour. She said more vendors are signing on weekly.

She showed me around personally, and explained what the various vendors were selling. A lot of organic foods, baked goods, a fair trade coffee stand, dairy and a bit of artsy craftsy stuff. The produce and bakery section were getting the most attention by far though.

Next week, I plan to buy some of the maple syrup for sale, and the butcher made pepperettes! Oh. And lots more fresh veggies!

Thanks for posting.

[OnDoutside]

28. No problem, it's a great idea, and the way it's done, it buys in the community. Funny you should

mention the bakery section, that's one of big draws of the Courtmac community shop as well.

[CrispyQ]

4. Just one of so many things that us folks of privilege take for granted.

I've often thought that if everyone had to work retail one month & take public transportation the next month, and repeat this every two years, maybe we'd be nicer to each other. Nothing opened my eyes to institutional racism more than public transportation.

It's been awhile, but I read a story about a woman who bought a food truck, turned it into a mobile produce department, stocked it with what she thought was a day's plus worth of produce, went to the inner city & sold out in less than two hours.

Such an important post. I'm glad you have a better resource, finally!

[inanna]

6. ....

>> I read a story about a woman who bought a food truck, turned it into a mobile produce department, stocked it with what she thought was a day's plus worth of produce, went to the inner city & sold out in less than two hours. <<

Same thing would happen here! If anybody in this town was ingenious enough to do that downtown on a daily basis - they'd have a very stable and secure business, for sure.

It's a great idea! Hell. If I had the start up money, I'd do it myself.

[lpbk2713]

7. I'll bet you'll see the convenience store guy dropping his prices.

If he wants to survive.

[trof]

8. I live on the outskirts of a small town of 18,000.

There's not one grocery within a 20 minute walk of the downtown area.

[inanna]

9. Everyone I know here thinks that is what will happen.

They're a nice family, and whatnot and there is definitely still a need for his shop downtown.

For the past few weeks, he has been marking some things down. But as my acquaintance and I noticed, it's only for junky stuff: chocolate bars, cookies and bleach (?!) - of all things!

People need *real* food - not convenience store junk.

He sells some frozen goods (pizza pockets, french fries, etc.) and some canned goods, but all at a huge mark up. What he doesn't sell is fresh produce, whole grain breads, meats and all the other things one requires for a well-rounded diet.

Much to my surprise today at the new market was that the prices were quite reasonable. Not rock bottom, but definitely fair.

[joet67]

10. Half of my town has become so over the last few months. :( nt

[PennyK]

11. I'm curious

What company is the new market? I've read that often the big names have to be bribed to open in what's considered a "bad" area.

[inanna]

14. It's not one of the big chain grocery stores

It is a locally run farmers market/mini grocery. I love the fact that it is local and unique - but to be honest, at this point, I would settle for one of the big chain stores over nothing at all.

[Blue_true]

24. What is the income distribution in your area? If you know that info.

[inanna]

34. It's very mixed income.

I know several pensioners who live close by, as well as younger college aged kids rooming down the street. There are high priced luxury condominiums nearby, but it's mostly seniors in those. There are a few geared to income complexes, and several high rise apartment buildings I'd say are more middle class. Then, there's the very low income people. But the demographics seem to be changing...


I'm working class. Most of the people who live in my building are as well. I recently landed a new job that places me above the poverty line - for example. I live downtown because a) I love it here, b) it's close to work c) it was an emergency solution to a housing crisis I experienced when the previous property I was renting was suddenly sold.

There's several awesome parks nearby, it's a moment's walk to the waterfront, and it's a two minute walk to the bus terminal.

[Blue_true]

39. Sounds like mixed income. Hope is does not gentrify. nt

[Honeycombe8]

12. If it's feasible and profitable, stores would locate in more food desert areas.

I think the reasons they don't are myriad, like super high rent, not enough sales (grocery stores make $ on volume), too high crime (employees work round the clock & come & go late at night or very early), difficulty getting reliable employees in the area.

BTW, there are places to order groceries online & have delivered. Fresh food is the biggest hurdle, for obvious reasons. But frozen & canned are actually more nutritious than fresh, which sits in stores for a while and that's after a shipping process. Frozen & canned are often processed close to the harvest time and retain more vitamins.

For those times you're hankering for fresh, there are eateries like Jason's Deli that offer awesome salad bars. Subway has fresh wonderful salads that are inexpensive.

But it's best to have multiple stores in the area. Of course, that usually means living in a smaller city or out in the burbs.

[inanna]

15. I'm in Canada though

and unless you live in one of the major metropolises here, grocery delivery (fresh/other) isn't really an option. There is amazon canada for dry goods, but I've stopped using them due to extraordinarily bad courier service via purolator.

I live in a mid sized city.

[Honeycombe8]

18. Oh, bummer. I live in a small-mid size city, too. Downtown doesn't have stores, either.

They just don't have the people to support that. But in a small-mid city, it's just a few minutes to Kroger's. Everyone here has cars. You can't get around w/o one. No decent public transportation, and it's spread out.

You have a bicycle? Or motorcycle?

[inanna]

19. It's not going to be as much of a problem for us downtown now

because a locally run farmers market has just opened up around the corner from me.

That's what I'm so happy about!

I just hope all in the community will continue to support it so it stays.

[Honeycombe8]

20. That IS great. Come to think of it, our downtown has a nearby Farmer's Market...

that is open two Saturdays a month, I think. Local produce. At least it's something, even tho not open very often.

[meadowlander]

35. This is what I did when I didn't have a car.

I'd wait until the supermarkets had their $1 delivery special or toilet paper was marked down $3-4 each on the bulk sizes (so with the savings of buying 8 or 9 bags at a time the delivery was free) and then I'd order 3-6 months worth of everything non-perishable and get it delivered.

That way on any given week I only had to schlep home with two or three bags worth of perishable items on the bus instead of six or seven.

Even now that I finally have a car (after twenty years without one), I still shop this way because it cuts the amount of time it takes to do the weekly shopping in half. All I have to do is skate around the outside aisles or make a quick trip to the fruit and veg stand, the butcher and then duck into the supermarket for a handful of dairy products.

I've lived in food deserts in the past as well and totally feel the pain if you don't have a chain that delivers. But I would think most US cities do have at least one supermarket chain with a delivery service.

[Honeycombe8]

36. I've lived in a big city and small-med. city. No grocery store ever delivered, that I know of.

Kroger tried it online once (I think it was a national online try), but it failed.

You can order canned & boxed groceries from Amazon Pantry and some third party (expensive) services.

[inanna]

37. When my Dad was a boy EVERYTHING was delivered.

Milk, bread, groceries....

I know times have changed, and we live in a car-centric culture today. But some of us either can't afford or don't want to drive.

Also, there a people with extreme phobias who cannot drive.

[BigmanPigman]

13. I lived in two East Coast cities like that. I had to shop several times a week and had no car.

Once I needed to make something with Marshmellow Fluff and had to buy a bag of marshmellows, melt them, and use them that way. When it cooled it solidified and you couldn't cut through it with an axe (it was like rubber...boing, boing). My family still laughs about it.

[inanna]

16. Yeah, there is no way to get certain ingredients in my immediate vicinity.

The most affordable option is to take the city bus to the major shopping district across town and back home again - which limits me to very small orders.

Occasionally, I've been forced to dish out $20.00 + for taxi fare when I accidentally buy too much and can't get it home otherwise.

[hatrack]

17. Interesting! Not just a big city problem either . . .

A few years ago, work took me out to K-State, and I ended up talking with somebody who worked with the rural grocery initiative:

http://www.ruralgrocery.org/

Plenty of small towns, many losing population, are faced with the prospect of driving 30 or 40 miles to the next county seat to go to the (All together now!) Wal-Mart, or trying to make do on whatever limited grocery shopping options there are - in some cases, a Casey's or Cenex gas station.

You wouldn't think that access to fresh fruits and vegetable would be a problem - it's farm country, after all - but the food monoculture out there is so utterly overwhelming that few operators are willing to give up any space to small-scale production of anything but corn, soy or alfalfa. On top of that, lots of small-town residents are renters who may not have permission to dig up a garden where they live.

Anyway, the initiative provides business models and templates for different kinds of ownership, and I think some funding.

Glad you can get something good!

[ProudLib72]

21. A couple of years ago, I had a student who had lived in a food desert

She told me it was 72 miles to the nearest grocery store. Imagine driving 144 miles round trip to buy groceries!

[womanofthehills]

30. For the past yr, I have been driving 90 miles for groceries - 180 round trip

Our town grocery store opened last week. We needed one so badly, we had a Go Fund Me to open help open the store.

[Blue_true]

22. Sounds like your area is gentrifying.

Once that happens shopping, Starbucks, Chipotle show up. Just a matter of time.

[DAMANgoldberg]

25. I am fortunate...

I live 1 mile from a chain grocery store Food Lion that was recently remodeled and has a good selection of products that the neighborhood actually purchases. There are at least 6 neighborhoods off the top of my head in town that doesn't even have that option, as the closest thing to a grocer is Family Dollar (headquartered in Matthews, a suburb).

Downtown has one current grocer, Harris Teeter (a subsidiary of Kroger) in a condo development. Whole Foods is being built near the Convention Center and NASCAR Hall of Fame portion of downtown, but that is it. There is plenty of $$ downtown and now about 45,000 residents of the 800K+ for the entire city. Coincidently, no Family Dollar stores in the downtown "uptown" loop.

[Honeycombe8]

38. Re Family Dollar...I moved from a big city to a small-midsize city in the south.

I live now in a semi-rural area off a small-midsize city in the deep south. Just moved back there after living in Dallas for 35 yrs.

The dollar stores were inconvenient to where I lived in Dallas. But where I'm living in deep south...it's inconvenient as to some things. 16 to 20 miles to Sam's Club, 12 mi. to Home Depot & Lowe's, 15 mi. to movie theater. BUT...you wouldn't believe all the Dollar Stores near me...Dollar Tree, Dollar General, Fred's, Dollar Tree. All w/in 6 minutes of me. And TWO WAlMarts 6 & 10 mins away (one of them is a supercenter). And a "Tractor" store like a small Home Depot. And little shops with doodads. AND a Market Basket grocery store AND library w/in 6 minutes.

The south loves those dollar stores & WalMart! I do, too. I may drop that Sam's membership, though. That's a bit far for me.

[Barack_America]

26. Honestly, the Blue Apron-type services work decently in these environments...

All you need to have on hand is salt, pepper and olive oil.

The meals are pricey, but can easily be stretched. The quality is good.

A tip for those not lucky enough to have an "oasis" spring up near them.

[NanceGreggs]

27. I live in the east end of Toronto.

Our local grocery store, two blocks away, carries the "staples" - but nothing beyond that.

A few years ago, I was in the store, walking behind a couple shopping there. "Let's look at the cheese section," the wife said, "to see if they have that cheese we saw on that cooking show last night."

When they got to the cheese section and looked around, the wife sadly shook her head. "Oh, I forgot this store is located in a Moscow suburb circa 1952."

At one point, the store put out store-wrapped blocks of yellow cheese - simply labelled as "Old Yellow Cheese". It looked like a couple of stock-boys had come across it in the back of store, and labelled it as what they thought it was. "Looks like old yellow cheese to me - so let's just call it that."

After that, my husband and I decided that "Ol' Yellow Cheese" was a little-known blues guitarist. Whenever we listened to music and didn't recognize the guitarist's style, we would say that it must be "Ol' Yellow Cheese" - a man who never got the recognition he deserved.

[Neema]

29. I've always been so jealous of my friends and family who live in California

who get year round farmers markets and gardens that produce all year. In fact, there are so many people living in my sister's neighborhood with fruit trees they only grow for decoration that there's a neighborhood group that goes around and picks the fruit from these trees. The homeowner doesn't have to worry about fruit they don't want and it doesn't go to waste. They share much of it with charity and preserve the rest.

Anyway, like I said, I've always been very jealous of this...until I read your story. I live in a big city too but I have three excellent groceries within 10 blocks, as well as a few lesser groceries and produce markets. I have my choice of farmer's markets throughout the week from May through October. Plus I grow some veggies and herbs on my roof. I'm now very thankful for that and I'm so sad that people don't have access to it. And we wonder why so many Americans live on fast food.

Congratulations on the new market. I'm truly happy for you. There are few things I enjoy more than finding the perfect fruits and vegetables to cook at home.

[Lee-Lee]

33. I used to work for a guy who owned several small shops in "food desert" areas

What I learned is there are several reasons why these shops either don't open, don't stay open, don't sell fresh food or have high prices.

First is demand. He stocked what sold. In most of those areas when he tried fresh fruits and veggies and healthy foods they didn't sell well. Add in that refrigerated space takes more floor space and you have losses due to spoilage and such and it was often a loosing use of limited floor space. And when he did make a profit it was far less than other use of the space. So he sold what the customers most wanted and most purchased.

Many food deserts are also high crime areas. A typical convenience store or small grocery operates on about a 5-8% markup on food type stuff. If you have high levels of inventory shirabkage due to theft and constant expenses to deal with vandalism and other crime that can shift a store from profitability to a loss. He had one store that had so many issues he had to have two clerks on the overnight shift instead of one and that ended up being the breaking point and he closed it. Had he kept it open to keep it profitable woudlnah e required higher prices and then people would accuse them of "gouging".