This presidency can't be saved. It's all downhill from here. - By Jennifer Rubin

[DonViejo]

July 21 at 1:14 PM

In light of news reports that President Trump’s team is scouring the record for conflicts of interest on special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s team (the essence of chutzpah) and contemplating pardons (of aides and/or himself), it is worth considering how this may all play out.

We offer several scenarios:

1. Trump orders Attorney General Jeff Sessions to fire Mueller. Sessions quits, as does Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein and Associate Attorney General Rachel Brand. Eventually someone agrees to fire Mueller. Republicans either will not pursue impeachment or are obliged to begin impeachment hearings but refuse to vote out articles of impeachment. In 2018, Democrats sweep to victory in the House and gain a seat or two in the Senate. Trump cannot be removed (two-thirds of the Senate is required for removal), but his presidency is in tatters. Some aides or ex-aides face criminal prosecution. LESSON: Republicans’ failure to stand up to Trump early dooms his presidency and crashes the GOP.

2. Trump orders Attorney General Jeff Sessions to fire Mueller. Sessions quits, as does Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein and Associate Attorney General Rachel Brand. Eventually someone agrees to fire Mueller. Republicans, together with Democrats, pass by a veto-proof majority an independent prosecutor statute. Before impeachment proceedings can finish, Democrats sweep to victory in 2018 in the House and gain a seat or two in the Senate. Trump cannot be removed, but his presidency is in tatters. Some aides or ex-aides face criminal prosecution. LESSON: Fire Mueller, and Congress will hire him back.

3. Republicans join Democrats in warning Trump not to fire Mueller. Mueller remains and keeps digging. Mueller subpoenas damaging documents; Trump refuses to comply. A court orders him to comply. He doesn’t. We have a full-blown constitutional crisis. LESSON: Congress cannot delegate all responsibility to Mueller. It must conduct a parallel investigation and, if need be, commence impeachment proceedings.

4. Republicans join Democrats in warning Trump not to fire Mueller. Mueller remains and keeps digging. Mueller subpoenas damaging documents; Trump refuses to comply. A court orders him to comply. He declares this a witch hunt, an attack on his family (or whatever). Then he resigns, claiming he has already made America great. He tells the country that Vice President Pence will carry on in his place. LESSON: Congress must protect Mueller and preserve the possibility that Trump may be forced to resign.

more
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/07/21/this-presidency-cant-be-saved-its-all-downhill-from-here

[Gabi Hayes]

1. Used to loathe her

Now I love her!

Thx for posting...

[Skittles]

4. I am not familar with her

what is her history? don't make me google

[kwassa]

5. She is a very conservative columnist I used to dislike.

however, like some other conservative columnists, she is doing a relentless takedown of Trump, over and over and over. Her platform is the Washington Post, too. Michael Gerson is another doing a great job of this.

[tblue37]

7. Yes, they are doing good work now, but they don't acknowledge, and probably

don't believe, that the current mess is the natural development of the ideas and policies they have been pushing all along.

[boston bean]

37. I think she wrote an article about that if my memory is good.

But I could be confusing her with another conservative writer.

[MBS]

9. " " " " "

I think in part because she IS a conservative that she can have such relentlessly scathing insight. She knows this sorry cast of characters. (Same for Michael Gerson, but she's both more conservative than Gerson, and more scathing about Trump)

[apkhgp]

2. How will it end?

This administration (I will not use the "P" word when connected with 45) is like watching professional wrestling. The taunting, the "fakery". As I stated when I first came here, being nauseated from looking at all of that. All downhill from here. Buckle up.

[raven mad]

22. I haven't said the "p" word referring to him yet.

And won't. He isn't one. Way worse than Shrub, he's a resident. And hopefully not for much longer.

Seatbelts are on and the garden is yielding good stuff. Maybe affording food through the winter of our discontent will help!

[MFM008]

33. He is nothing

And remains nameless.

[Alice11111]

26. Yep, like pro wrestling. Good metaphor

[madaboutharry]

3. The list grows

Jennifer Rubin
Nicole Wallace
Ana Navarro
Elise Jordan

Susan Collins
Lisa Murkowski
Shelley Moore Capito

Republican women are trying to save America!

[raven mad]

23. Lisa just hasn't gotten enough $$ out of sTrumpet yet.

She'll turn in the direction of the greenback dollar. It's happened before, and THAT cat doesn't change her spots.

[Hekate]

24. Steve Schmidt, David Frum, and more all the time. The current bunch in the WH are radical rightists

...and not really conservative at all.

Some of the old style conservatives, including Neocons like Frum, opposed Trump all along. Some fooled themselves into thinking that Trump would "pivot" when he became potus, or "grow into the office."

But by now all of the ones who really love this country and its Constitutional heritage are publically appalled, disgusted, and frightened for our future.

I hope a few of their ilk remain in Congress, somewhere.

[Gabi Hayes]

30. Democracy in Chains explains it pretty well

Takes it past Dark Money

Gives it a historical frame seen through the life of a twisted nobel prize winning economist/racist/uberlibertarian/theoretician

/activist/ahole

[phleshdef]

6. She is leaving out the part where Mueller can use the courts to avoid being fired.

https://verdict.justia.com/2017/07/21/trumps-mueller-scheming-will-fail

On what basis can the special counsel be removed? And can Trump really fire Mueller?

Answer: Unlike the special prosecutor created during Watergate, the special counsel was appointed pursuant to Sections 600.4 through 600.10 of Title 28 of the Code of Federal Regulations, which addressed some of the earlier problems. For example, he can only be removed by personal action of the Attorney General (and since Sessions is recused, Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein). 28 CFR 600.7 states: “The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies. The Attorney General shall inform the Special Counsel in writing of the specific reason for his or her removal.” Unlike the summary firing of Archibald Cox by Nixon, to remove Mueller or any of his staff would require an investigation and proceeding by the Department of Justice, and would be subject to appeal in federal court. Indeed, these regulations were written to make it difficult to remove a special counsel, and I seriously doubt Trump can succeed. These regulations would have to be nullified by Trump, but I have little doubt Mueller could and would litigate that action, and prevail in federal court because a president cannot remove due process to accomplish his goal of removing the special counsel. Nor with a special counsel as experienced and careful as Mueller, can he exercise any control over the investigation.

[roscoeroscoe]

11. John Dean's article today highlighted this

in Vox, I think?

[Hekate]

25. Excellent, just excellent

[Alice11111]

27. Thx for post

[smirkymonkey]

8. +1000

[NRaleighLiberal]

10. we've had six months of steady downhill. we have to dig a hole to go lower

actually downhill started on election night at about 9 PM

[Alice11111]

28. Started when Comey reopened the email distraction,

and made worse when he closed it. I still don't like him..

[riversedge]

38. Bingo.

[Doug the Dem]

54. Yep

I will never forgive James Comey for giving us Trump in the first place!

[Alice11111]

60. Comey wanted a legacy ...he will be remembered.

[Mr.Bill]

12. She misses that Sessions

has recused himself from any investigation regarding the Trump campaign and can't really even be asked to fire Mueller.

[Duppers]

14. Indeedy.

It's been my understanding that Sessions cannot touch any part of this.

[Alice11111]

29. Cannot, but has not stopped them before. He fired Comey,

at least, signed the letter.

[BumRushDaShow]

13. She left out the obvious, more realistic scenario

6.) Trump orders Attorney General Jeff Sessions to fire Mueller. Sessions carries out the firing despite his supposed "recusal". Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein and Associate Attorney General Rachel Brand resign. Republicans will neither pursue impeachment nor will begin impeachment hearings. In 2018, Democrats face massive gerrymandering, voter purges, and new Voter ID laws, along with a fresh set of Russian cyberattacks.... and although they gain some seats in the House, they lose two in the Senate. Trump cannot be removed (two-thirds of the Senate is required for removal) and his presidency is in tatters, but his "base" could care less and remains committed to continuing to support him, while the media keeps insisting that one day he will "pivot". Some aides or ex-aides face criminal prosecution. LESSON: Republicans’ failure to stand up to Trump should doom his presidency and crash the GOP, but it doesn't because Vladimir Putin controls the U.S. now.

[NBachers]

15. Yeah, I was looking for this scenario. It's the most realistic one.

[tomp]

18. I agree.

I think rubin's scenarios are optimistic, particularly regarding elections in 2018, due to the corruption you mentioned. we can no longer accept corrupt elections but who is gong to do anything about it?

one thing that is overlooked is any role played by the masses. rallying millions in DC and elsewhere around the country could expedite trump's removal and stymie any pushback or evasion by the republicans, and stymie pence as well.

in my view it is extremely naive to rely on the powers that be for significant or rapid change. we must push the dems to be more progressive and more assertive in defense of the interests of the vast majority.

[BumRushDaShow]

21. Unfortunately

most of the current GOP in Congress have ignored the "masses" - including those in the districts/states they represent. The only ones who they listen to are the big donors.

This doesn't mean that the protests should cease. Far from it because if anything, the continual bad P.R. is often something they can't stomach.

[Alice11111]

32. Yeah, and meanwhile, back at the ranch, N Korea finally

hits Hawaii. We all have to unite behind our incompetent, psychopathic Pres, and the war is on.

[workinclasszero]

17. Sadly that scenario seems to be the only one based in the reality of the moment

[Alice11111]

31. Sad, but true. I'll die of exhaustion by DT by then. At least,

go broke, become more depressed, become an alcoholic, never clean the house, go blind reading Wapo, NYT, New Yorker, DU...

[Solly Mack]

16. It can't, but then neither can the GOP.

To "save" the GOP, it would have to become something it is not - and doesn't want to be, obviously - and hasn't been in a very long time.

The many years of GOP racist, sexist, fear-mongering tactics helped to create the conditions for Trump.

Trump is what they wanted, proof being they want Trump in office to fulfill their wildest dreams of tearing down America and reshaping it into an authoritarian state.

Sessions won't resign because he is in a position of putting into place policy that helps along this authoritarian state. He is a position to tear down any regulations or safeguards Obama/Holder put into place. Any checks on a justice system out of control.

Trump can insult Sessions until the cows come home but he won't give up his new found power willingly. And Trump really can't afford to fire him because Sessions knows too much - and has loyalty only to himself ultimately.

Trump still could fire him but he'd worry about what Sessions would tell - but Sessions is smart enough about the workings of D.C. to come out smelling a lot better than Trump.

That's not saying much, but Sessions would take not stinking as much as Trump and call it a win. So would a lot of the GOP.

[tomp]

19. I would not bet on which one of them will last longer...

...but sessions has his own Russia problems and will eventually be booted or resign, most likely.

[Solly Mack]

20. True.

[Alice11111]

34. Yeah, but as Sessions said, I LOVE my job. He ain't leaving

& he doesn't seem to be too afraid of DT. Standoff because he knows a lot about DT. If he wants to work on shutting down the dark internet, good. Leave immigration & pot alone.

Lots of LOVE expressed by Repubs in the last 2 days.
Mucci's carrying on about loving DT

Somehow, the Party of Hate is expressing a lot of love...for power.

[Solly Mack]

40. Excellent points.

Sessions does love his new found power. He can make a lot of people he hates miserable by giving free reign to his racism.

And go after pot smokers.

[Alice11111]

41. Thank you. Yeah, the KKK Elf is on a tear

[Solly Mack]

43. Also, Sessions is far more savvier about DC than Trump

He knows how to come away smelling not as bad.

[Alice11111]

61. & if DT makes his life worse, he has goods too

They may help bring each other down. The Senate will try to protect Sessions.

The ONLY reason I care if Sessions is there is that it allows Mueller to keep working.

What an irony

[Solly Mack]

62. Mutually assured destruction, with a slight edge going to Sessions.

I wouldn't put it past Trump to fire Mueller though. Sessions or no Sessions.

To at least try, if he gets to feeling too threatened. The man's default is to lash out.

Which is helping to build a case against him. Talk about irony.

[Alice11111]

63. I agree. He could try to fire all of them, fight, and then say,

they are all prejudiced because I tried to fire them.
For sure, he will stir it up and create so much chaos, it's almosr impossible to sort out...at the least, he will put a big cloud over it...for his base.

Grassley is all out to blame Hillary.This is where they are going. No thinking logical person will believe it, but the Repubs will.

[Solly Mack]

66. There's the rub. His supporters will believe it, further cementing the cloud he is creating -

at least in their minds.

Which entrenches them even more into their beliefs. And as long as anyone supporting Trump can point to that cloud, doubt is created, and that doubt makes it harder to get a definitive resolution. It's not as if facts matter to this crowd.

Grassley needs to be investigated. He seems far too invested in the outcome. Goes beyond mere Trump support to me. Not even Clinton hate explains it all.

[Alice11111]

69. He is too Invested in the cover up, protectimg it.

If we had just 3 more senators. Got 2 more elected!

[Solly Mack]

71. Yes. We have to elect more Democrats.

Because republicans have opted out of the process completely. Unless it benefits them.

[Alice11111]

65. We have a few of these MAD set ups

Sessions v DT
Putin v DT
Pence v DT
Manafort v DTJ, v Kushner, maybe

One thing that bothers me, if this were a court, or a proper investigation w testimomy, each witness would have to wait outside while the others testified. Grassley is giving them a chance to get their stories straight, depending on how he sets it up. Feinstein, where art thou?

[Solly Mack]

68. I agree about what what Grassley is doing.

Giving them time doesn't necessarily mean they won't hang themselves - but - time also allows them the chance to create a better fiction.

[Alice11111]

70. ...makes it hard to prove they are lying

[Solly Mack]

72. It does, but we both know no matter the proof, some will call it "fake".

[Rollo]

35. Jennifer left out some other possibilities...

Including but not limited to:

Trump/Bannon/Scaramucci gin up some sort of major crisis. They ensure that things deteriorate to the point where they feel justified in declaring martial law...

OR

Trump/Bannon/Scaramucci secretly orchestrate a military coup. The nation is shocked; the generals have already agreed in advance to "end the turmoil" by allowing Trump to resume the Presidency, and everyone is relieved. Trump feigns magnanimity and pardons all the top brass responsible for the fake coup. Of course, a few lower level officers and soldiers wind up court-martialed and disgraced, but you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs, right?

OR

Trump manipulates Congress into declaring war on a non-insignificant nation (like Iran or North Korea) and the nation is loathe to get rid of its president at a time of national emergency.

In other words, Putin isn't the only world leader today contemplating being President For Life, by whatever means necessary.

[BumRushDaShow]

39. The weakness in the 2nd scenario

is that the WH is populated by a bunch of business and real estate folks who are completely clueless about government and even moreso about the military. Early on, Drumpf insulted "the generals", and even though he has generally let them do what they want when it comes to Syria, never assume they will ever forget the fusillade of smears hurled by him during the campaign. You may have some who fixate on the "CiC" chain of command no matter what, but I expect the vast majority are very cognizant of the ever-changing landscape (like any federal employee) of Presidents and their administrations.

[Gabi Hayes]

44. Their stupefying incompetence is the only thing

standing in the way of a headlong rush to corporate fascism

[BumRushDaShow]

45. Yup.

But I fear that this may still be a first phase - where these stooges are just the "scouts" who are stumbling through the inner workings gaining knowledge (without understanding any of it) to pass on to others (who do understand it) to use in the future.

[Gabi Hayes]

46. Same here

Glad I don't have kids

It's sAd!

Sad!

[BumRushDaShow]

50. I fear for my country.

I have posted before that the only thing that has held this system together these couple centuries is literally "the honor system". I.e., the willingness to step down if one loses an election (even after going to court and losing too) and the willingness to freely argue, and attempt to uphold the somewhat "utopian ideals" of the Constitution. Once that "honor system" breaks down, that's it, we're done.

[Gabi Hayes]

51. You know Democracy in Chains?

This has been in the works for almost 60 years

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/features/nancy-maclean/


It seems inevitable the phrase “vast right-wing conspiracy” will pop into your head while reading Duke University historian Nancy MacLean’s disquieting Democracy in Chains: The Deep History of the Radical Right’s Stealth Plan for America. After all, the phrase made famous by Hillary Clinton in the 1990s popped into MacLean’s head a few times while she researched and wrote her book.

It would seem an apt description, given the covert undermining of American democratic foundations and institutions by the extreme libertarian movement MacLean documents in Democracy in Chains. But as pernicious as the movement is, it “is not a conspiracy,” she said in an interview. “A conspiracy involves illegality, and this movement, while it operates by stealth, is generally careful to stay within the rules that exist.”

She uses “fifth column assault” instead. She acknowledged “fifth column” also is “a phrase with a fraught history.” But the academics, operatives, ideologues, and billionaires of the radical right “have a fundamental hostility to our form of government as it existed over the 20th century,” and seek to vanquish it from within.

Democracy in Chains expands on Jane Mayer’s reporting in Dark Money: The Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right. Where Mayer follows the radical right’s money trail, MacLean examines its intellectual origins—“the master plan behind it,” as she writes in her book’s introduction. Her findings will leave you deeply concerned for our democracy and civic life.

[BumRushDaShow]

53. I have heard of that

but I do know that there are billionaires "on the other side" (or who are at least somewhat neutral) who are far more wealthy than the loon ones who are attempting to do this. And for those top of the Forbes list billionaires, a "stable" U.S. is much more advantageous to THEM than whatever the RW might be trying to create. And that's because the U.S. has vast natural resources that they would seek to preserve from foreign influence should the country lurch into an unstable state of existence. I.e., they may covertly intervene once things reach a certain point.

[TomCADem]

36. This is the plan: (1) Sessions Resigns; (2) New AG Appointed; (3) New AG Fires Mueller

This is the current plan, which is Trump said what he did during the NY Times interview then leaked the info about Sessions talking to the Russian ambassador about campaign related matters in 2016. Sessions is being forced to resign in disgrace so that Trump does not have to fire him.

[Alice11111]

42. If he is smart, he will get fired

[Gabi Hayes]

48. He's gotta do whatever he's told to avoid prosecution

P

[BumRushDaShow]

47. Any "appointed" (actually "nominated") AG has to be CONFIRMED first

before they have the power to do anything. Drumpf has zero clue regarding "civics".

So in the meantime, it falls back to Rosenstein who would either have to fire Mueller or resign, and if he resigns, then they would have to go down a line of EXISTING high level DOJ staff like Nixon did. You can't have an "appointee" (nominee) at the federal department head level, who has not been confirmed, suddenly have power to act.

There have been rumblings that any new AG nominee might have a more difficult time getting confirmed (which would be significant given what it took for Sessions to get in).

[Gabi Hayes]

49. Recess appointment

They talked about last nite on tv

Nothin dems can do

[BumRushDaShow]

52. After Obama tested and lost the recess appointment argument in the SCOTUS

regarding when the Senate held pro forma sessions (where the SCOTUS vote was unanimous), the Senate will never go into recess. If anything, they would have to vote to formally recess and guarantee they would not get any unanimous consent to do that - and the party split is too close, as you might not get enough Rs to get to 50 to do that knowing Drumpf could fill up the government with a bunch miscreants who might cause harm during the 2018 elections for Senate Rs who are up.

[Gabi Hayes]

55. The way they explained the majority party

Only has the power to open/close sessions

Is that true?

Doubt if it's in the con

If it's just a rule, they control that, too

Speaking of too, am too tired 2 continue, too

[BumRushDaShow]

56. It's complicated because

for a formal "recess" - BOTH chambers must agree to it. And since there has been some under-the-radar rancor regarding the fiscal year 2018 appropriations and threatened "shut downs" if Planned Parenthood isn't defunded (or other draconian things aren't done), then the odds for a "recess" are pretty slim unless they pass a CR that goes past the Christmas break (the traditional time for recess appointments). And given that the GOP controls everything, they are going to battle for all sorts of domestic cuts and military increases for the upcoming appropriations, and that is going to be fought against - essentially delaying.

Interesting discussion about the definition of a "recess" (10 or more days) and recess appointments after that 2014 SCOTUS ruling - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/06/25/us/annotated-supreme-court-recess-decision.html

Other tidbits about recess - http://time.com/4855525/august-recess-senate-history/

[Gabi Hayes]

57. Thx! Now I'm really reeling

To sleep

Perchance to stream

[BumRushDaShow]

58. Go to bed!

[Alice11111]

67. Reminds me that Obama didn't do this w SCOTUS. He

would have had a year at least. One had 30 years.

[Gabi Hayes]

73. I think the nazis either made it clear they'd

stay in session, or actually did

Anyhow, he didn't try

He was unaccountably conciliatory almost every time with those fux

[rickford66]

59. Republicans join Democrats ?? Ha ! Never happen.

Democrats taking back the house and a couple Senate seats ?? Ha ! They're purging voters right now. These scenarios are provided to sedate Democrats. Giving them false hope until the Reich Wing is victorious. Give me some better sedatives please.

[Sugarcoated]

64. When I click on the link

it takes me to the article, then it fades to grayish white and I can't see anything.