Question for teachers/educators about behavior of a teacher toward my Muslim friend

[luvMIdog]

Last edited Wed Aug 9, 2017, 04:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Today was the first day of kindergarten for my friends daughter. It was an emotional day with some kids crying and some parents teary eyed and my friend was in a line dropping her child off at the door. She asked her child's teacher if the water bottle she bought was the right kind of water bottle that had been put on the supplies list. The water bottle has a close clasp on it. The teacher grabbed her hand and poured water into her hand making a puddle on the floor in front of her. Then the teacher said " Do you think that's leak proof?" When she saw the expression on my friend's face change she smiled all fake and said " Of I didn't mean to upset you I was trying to prove a point." Yes , my friend looks like a Muslim because she wears a scarf and long dress.

I think at the very least the teachers behavior is condescending. My friend said she did not say anything at that moment because she did not want to say anything in front of the children and a whole line of parents.


What is your advice? Do you feel this behavior might have been discrimination toward my friend or that the teacher is just stupid at dealing with people? What do you think appropriate action should be?

Edited to add the update:

My friend went back to the school to talk to the teacher today and she said the teacher was talking to other parents the same way. Evidently she talks to the adults in the same way she talks to the kindergarten kids . She also said her daughter came home yesterday raving about how much she loves her teacher & so that was all that matters to her. Thank you everyone for your input

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. As an educator, I would never treat a parent or student like that!

The way you describe it, it sounds rude and condescending!

[luvMIdog]

2. what do you think she should do?

She is thinking about talking to the principle about it, but fears that teacher will take it out on her daughter

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Sadly, that is a risk. She might privately speak to the teacher first,

but there is still a risk of her daughter being singled out. On the other hand, speaking up might wake this teacher up about how she interacts with people, especially if she knew the principal wasn't the first stop.

[luvMIdog]

7. Thank you for the advice. I will read these to her over the phone

[tblue37]

6. Talk to the teacher first--tell her how condescending she was. Many people who deal with small

children don't treat the little ones with respect (though of course they should). They also get into the habit of speaking to the kids' parents with the same condescending tone they use with the kids, because that is simply the attitude they habitually display in their classroom.

If the mother could do what I did--i.e., volunteer to help in the classroom once or more every week--she could observe how the teacher interacts with the kids, to be sure she doesn't treat her daughter or the other kids that rudely. Regularly volunteering all through my kids' grade school years also meant I knew all their teachers well and was on a friendly basis with all of them, and without having to say so, I put the whole school on notice that I was totally aware of what my kids' school experience was.

[luvMIdog]

8. Thank you for the advice. You know I was wondering if that is how she teaches her children also.

I hope not. It's like trying to make someone feel stupid to get a point across? I also thought she should tell the teacher how that behavior made her feel and ask what the purpose of the wet visual demonstration was.

[iamateacher]

16. I totally agree

Many of my parent volunteers are close friends still today....

[FM123]

3. The teacher is definitely stupid at dealing with people AND could be racist too.

It's hard to figure out on that first day of meeting the teacher just what exactly her problem is.
My heart goes out to your friend who had to be treated like that in front of her child on a milestone day. I am not sure what she should do or say because the treatment of her child could be affected by it. But I do know that eventually this idiot teacher will cross paths with a parent who is not gracious like your friend, and when she pulls that crap on them - that water bottle will go places she will have never imagined!

[luvMIdog]

12. Sometimes they see that scarf and make assumptions & also have bigotry

it's hard to tell stupidity from bigotry sometimes

[iamateacher]

4. She's just being stupid and condescending

Teachers are not all perfect....and sometimes they make mistakes especially since they are used to being in charge of a roomful of small children. If I was your friend I would just let it go and wait to see if her teaching skills are up to par.

[luvMIdog]

10. I have memories of excellent teachers and also a couple bad memories of mean teachers.

I had a teacher that absolutely hated me in second grade. I was a very obedient child, so I think the hatred must have stemmed from her dislike of some other family member of mine. ( small town). I can remember once when I was actually knocked unconscious by a band of boys that were playing airplane as they mowed me down. I woke up to an empty playground and went back to class late after the bell rang. There was blood on my forehead and I felt like I was about to throw up. I raised my hand and asked if I could go to the bathroom because I felt sick. She told me " You just stay right where you are!" in a mean voice. I was not about to barf in my chair in front of everyone so for the first time in my young life I disobeyed an adult and went to the bathroom to be sick. After that I went to the principles office and asked her to call my daddy. The principle was a sweet old lady. She said " Oh my goodness what happened to you?" I told her and then she marched down to my classroom and pulled my teacher out of the room and told her off good LOL. Then my step mom came up to the school to get me and she also yelled at the teacher. I had a concussion turns out.

My whole point being that some teachers are just downright mean for no reason. Just like other professions. Some are wonderful loving, giving people & some are just mean.

[Coventina]

9. Sounds like she's in the wrong profession, if you ask me.

A teacher needs, above all things, patience and willingness to, well, teach.

That was not teaching, that was shaming.

[luvMIdog]

11. yeah I agree it was shaming which is not a good way to teach ;)

[FM123]

13. If she does decide to have a word with the teacher after all,

she should bring a trusted friend along for moral support as well as a witness.

[luvMIdog]

14. I think she has decided to send the teacher an email about it

[FM123]

17. I hope this all works out for your friend, she is lucky to have you in her corner.

[SharonClark]

15. I don't like either of your choices

A third could be everyone was stressed out, kids were crying, and your friend tried to make it all about a water bottle. I don't know what your friend's expression was but maybe she should have laughed, thanked the teacher for the lesson and moved on. During the year, your friend will have plenty of opportunities to see if the teacher is anti-Muslim or a bully; she can take action then.

[luvMIdog]

21. My friend "tried to make it all about a water bottle"? All she did was ask if she bought the

right kind. She was aware of the stress going on around her which is why she did not respond. If someone had grabbed my hand and poured water on me to answer my question I don't think I would have been as polite.

[Raine1967]

18. That teacher had no right to touch your friend at all.

Grabbing her hand is terribly inappropriate -- and really disrespectful.

[Sancho]

19. You should talk to the teacher and tell her your issue first...

if she realizes that she was out of line then see how it goes.

Most teachers are taught to avoid publicly embarrassing kids. Likewise, they should be sensitive to different backgrounds. That goes double for kindergarten or early grades.

From one incident it's impossible to figure out if she's a new/bad teacher or if that was simply the 22nd leaky water bottle that morning (and the principal threatening lawsuits if someone slips on the water). Maybe she just lost it that particular time. From what you describe it was a mistake.

After 40 years of teaching, my wife and I have seen it all. No matter how much you try things go wrong and things happen. Good teachers reflect on the situation and fix it. Good teachers communicate with parents who have concerns.

Take my word for one thing though...every class has at least some parent who doesn't like something about the school/teacher/curriculum. In general, most teachers are pretty good, but it's getting harder and harder to recruit the best with the problems teachers face for the salary they earn.

[luvMIdog]

20. One of my daughters is also a teacher & I used to feel sorry for all the work she did at home until

late into the night. I have listened to many of the problems she has faced while teaching.

[oberliner]

22. Why should this person talk to the teacher?

How is it this person's business at all?

[Sancho]

29. If they witnessed something that concerned them they should talk to the teacher.

If their friend (parent of the child) wants to talk to the teacher that's ok too.

Schools are public places - if you see something, then usually it's best to bring it up. Most of the time, it's better to bring it up in a timely fashion. In this OP the request was for advice in dealing with someone who observed a problem.

There's nothing worse than showing up at the principal's office with a complaint a week later, or some email rumor floating around days after some issue.

I usually would not have a confrontation on the spot, but if you think there is discrimination or something that needs discussing, then give a call or make an appointment asap. It's the observer's interpretation that the teacher was biased, but that may not be accurate. It's also the observer's interpretation that the teacher backtracked with a "fake" smile. That may be true, but maybe not.

If they are concerned, then talk to the teacher with their issue and see how it goes.

[oberliner]

30. No, they shouldn't

This person is not the parent of a child at the school. If the parent wants to say something, then by all means.

[Sancho]

31. I disagree...

parents from other cultures may not want to speak up. Frankly, many parents here in Florida (more than 25% were born out of the US) will never speak to teachers or school officials for fear of deportation. Public employees don't answer simply to the parents, they work for everyone. OTOH, there's no need to assume the teacher is biased unless there's more evidence than a snippy comment about a water bottle.

If you see discrimination, bullying, or anything you believe is inappropriate it's ok to talk to the teacher. If you are friends with the parent as they suggest, then you could ask your friend how they interpreted the situation or ask them if they want to talk to the teacher. You could talk to the administration if you aren't satisfied.

In this case, the observer thought the teacher might be anti-muslin. I can't tell from the description if that's accurate or not. If it is the case, then the teacher is a problem. If it was a more casual mistake, then a conversation would suffice.

Teachers are professionals (and I assume this was a public school) who should be licensed and adhere to professional standards. Teaching diverse groups of students from different cultures is part of the job. Acting professionally is part of the job. Communicating with the public is part of the job.

There's no reason to go on a witch hunt, but if another parent, another teacher, or even a student has an issue then bring it up to the teacher and tell her what it appeared to you as a bystander. She may have any number of responses from "I already called the parent and apologized" to "I hate all those other religions in my class". Who knows?

[oberliner]

32. No teacher is going to take a meeting with a person who isn't a parent of one of their students

I cannot see any scenario where that would happen - certainly not this one.

[Sancho]

33. Educators talk with all sorts of people other than the parents of their students...

the only time a professional conversation is restricted to parents is when the issue directly concerns that particular student. Most teachers would talk to any reasonable person about a concern. If I was approached by an observer with a problem, I would be glad to discuss it. Just tell her you were an observer and not a parent.

This was not a case about the student from the description but, it was something witnessed about the teacher behavior that appears unclear. For all we know, the teacher tested every water bottle the same way - turn it upside down and see if it leaked. That has nothing to do with a religious bias.

It may be sarcastic and poor behavior on the part of the teacher, and maybe she needs to know how she appears to observers. I think a serious question focuses on the possible bias of the teacher - which is unknown as far as I can tell. Maybe the observer is correct, or maybe the observer read into the situation a bias that doesn't really exist. Regardless, teachers need to be sensitive about appearances, so it would be good to tell her how she was perceived.

Most teachers can be called on the phone at school, or sent an email, or will sit down for a meeting. That's an almost daily occurrence. In my experience, a lot of times the communication is over some problem that can be resolved.

[oberliner]

34. No, they don't

There is no teacher who would talk to someone who isn't the parent of one of their students over a complaint like this. There is no problem here to be resolved that this person has anything to do with.

(If the parent of the child in the class wishes to speak to the teacher about what happened, that would be different)

[Sancho]

36. Then we will disagree....

if the observer was a witness to the water bottle situation, then they have a reason to talk to the teacher about what they observed. If the friend (parent) wants to talk, that's certainly ok, but not necessary.

The issue was whether the teacher was bias because the friend was wearing a scarf. I see nothing wrong with telling the teacher the way it appeared to an outside observer. If the teacher is professional she will be concerned if her actions were interpreted in a negative connotation.

Teachers generally are aware that they are public professionals. If there is a problem, it's not just with one student.

[oberliner]

23. Stay out of it

Would be my advice.

[Nevernose]

24. Consider that your friend's version may be biased

Maybe, in the context of discussion of what's leak-proof, it came up innocently and was legitimately a demonstration. If your friend was embarrassed or felt vulnerable, she might be spinning the story a bit. Your friend also might be exaggerating.

That having been said: I'm a teacher. Sadly, I've known many assholes like your friend interacted with. Me just saying "maybe there's something more" in no way implies I think it's impossible or even improbable.

Like everyone else said, I'd take it up with the teacher first. Maybe it was meant differently than your friend took it.

Here's where my advice differs: have your friend surreptitiously video it. Normally I think that's a messed up thing (especially if posted online), but I've had similar situations, as both a parent and teacher.

If your friend goes to the teacher and the teacher really IS that much of an asshole, they'll lie straight to the principal's face. And they'll do it smiling while your friend watches.

Curious though: what part of the country is your friend in? What kind of neighborhood school? Is it one where the teacher might have had many interactions with Muslims before?

I hope your friend's kid is okay. She definitely needs to say something, starting with the teacher. If an innocent accident, forgiveness is a virtue. If the teacher is a bigot or a lunatic, they're going to mistreat your friend's kid (and others) until they are STOPPED. Bullies don't stop being bullied; they just graduate high school and are called something else.

[luvMIdog]

25. I think you're right about if they were trying to be insulting they would just lie about it

if she talked to the principle. I live in Texas. Everyone in Texas is not a bigot, but some are. Good advice, thank you.

[elleng]

26. Stupid.

Watch for bad, stupid behavior carefully, discuss and complain when necessary.

[Phoenix61]

27. Everyone gets one and only one chance

to make a first impression. Consider that the teachers's idea of a first impression. It doesn't really matter what your friend was wearing, the teacher was a rude jerk not to mention the slip hazard she created with her little stunt. If it was my child, she would be going to another teacher's class ASAP.

[MyOwnPeace]

28. Many good suggestions here........

a few points:

1. Sometimes there can be teachers that have become so "battle-worn" that the feel that they need to take it out on anybody that enters their door.

2. Sometimes, just like in politics, you can get somebody into a position that just does not belong there (ahem, do I need to name names?)

3. "Perception is reality" - if your friend feels that there was a problem, she should go to the teacher and explain what she believes was the issue. THAT will tell your friend what she's dealing with.

4. principle/principal - the "principal" should be the student's "pal!"

Good luck to all!

[TheBlackAdder]

35. Not a teacher, but put 4 through the system. Keep quiet, journal the exchange. Engage in PTA.

.

This seems to be one of those situations where nothing but badness will result from challenging it.

Either the teacher will cop an attitude, which will be directed at their kid, or the parent flagged at a complainer.


Hell, I've had my slew of asshole teachers over the years. You don't want to start the year off that way.

Save the complaints until later, after enough issues are journaled. Wait for the fall teacher conference when this can be brought up in front of a panel of teachers, so the one teacher can't hide. But, the chance of changing teachers is close to nil, so whatever happens, their kid will be stuck in that classroom.

The problem I see is that a lot of parents kiss the ass of teachers to get preferential or perceived preferential treatment. Some teachers buy into that, and others do not. If you really want to stir things up, have your friend join the PTA and lobby leavily, being overly friendly and helpful to other parents and run for office. At the least, heavily volunteer. They won't mess with their family then.

.