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LAS14

(13,783 posts)
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 11:20 AM Aug 2017

Why do we even conduct studies about population differences between the sexes?

This Friday on NPR, David Brooks said something I've known perfectly well my whole adult life. But I hadn't thought about it in quite this way. If population studies can tell us nothing about an individual, why do we conduct so many of them? I can see population studies for health, for targeting prevention and aiding in diagnosis. But surely they have no place in a situation where an individual is being judged for a job. Why do we even conduct these studies?

"There are some minor differences between populations, mostly in levels of interest, not in levels of ability. And - but these are all about populations. You can't tell anything about a person, about an individual from any of these studies. " David Brooks

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Why do we even conduct studies about population differences between the sexes? (Original Post) LAS14 Aug 2017 OP
Why conduct studies that show differences between races? Igel Aug 2017 #1

Igel

(35,300 posts)
1. Why conduct studies that show differences between races?
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 03:40 PM
Aug 2017

Because it's informative, explanatory, and can save lives.

We suck at statistics. Take two generalizations, which are statistical in nature.

The average IQs of men and women are the same.
The average brain size of men is greater than the average brain size of women.

The first is okay. It makes us feel good. The second pisses us off. It leads to, "Oh, so I'm a man, my brain's bigger than yours." It's a put down, it's off-pissing. The first leads to "Hey, you're a woman, that means your IQ's the same as mine!" never. It does lead to, "I'm just as smart as you, men and women have the same IQ"--which is on par with the "my brain's bigger" blip for sheer stupidity. What's going on is advocating for a position and misusing a perfectly valid generalization.

In both cases, if you look at any randomly selected man and woman, you really can't predict if the man's brain will be bigger than the woman's. You can't predict whether his IQ will be higher. (Okay, there's a small difference for the first, but very small. Vanishlingly small. Yes, that's a word.) Near the average, where most of us are, the differences are small and the pool is large.

Where this matters will be where the sample is small and the differences greater. That's going to be the extremes. If something has genetic component, the more reliance there is on that component the greater the effect. At the extreme top of a field, the most elite members in a field of study, it would show up. Always present, but usually trivial. High-powered physics labs don't typically have people with average IQs. IQ is 50% genetic, or nearly so. Even in those labs, though, hard work can make up for lower IQ. Statistics aren't individual predestination.

Population studies are needed whenever you monitor a population or deal with a population. Period.

They show one of two things, at first: Are the populations equal or not?

Usually the answer is "not." Then the question is, Why not?

Now, they often say nothing about the individual. But when you walk into a doctor's office, you're not an individual. First off, you're a member of a group. A black kid collapses in pain in class for no apparent reason, saying he has a burning pain over much of his body? Suspect sickle cell. Overweight Latino kid skips lunch and has a seizure late in the day? I'd suspect diabetes and give him a little soda. Skinny Tom Thorsson, with Iceland parents does either of those two? I wouldn't suspect sickle cell or diabetes. Population studies aid in medicine, in diagnosis. Clinic trials have spotted some medicines that work for one ethnicity and not so well for another.

There are thousands of genetic differences that group by ethnicity or race. Foolish not to use them. We know which groups are lactose tolerant. All others, pretty much intolerant. You cater for a bunch of Germans? Milk's fine. For a bunch of Sicilians? What, you tryin' to kill them? But among the Germans you may find a lactose intolerant person, and among the Sicilian one who is tolerant.

Population studies aid in policy. There's a wage gap between men and women. Between blacks and whites and Asians. Finding that is a population study. Figuring out why involves population studies. And, as with those two generations about brain size and IQ, they're misused by advocates. ("Advocate: A person too involved with saving others to be reasonable or to reason.&quot

Population studies aid in education. Why is it that out of 180 students, 40 As and 15 Fs, I have 1-2 blacks getting As and 7-8 getting Fs? And of the blacks getting As, at least one will be an immigrant or the child of immigrants from Africa? I know why. Thanks, population studies. Because otherwise the "disparate impact" crap would mean my classroom is abhorrently racist. But the students come in with backgrounds. I can't fix that, but I can try. It's mostly, but not entirely beyond my control, so the "racist skew" predates me pretty consistently. And while it's not entirely beyond my control, meaning it's partially under my control, it's time intensive: I can't take 5 hours a week to deal with each student who needs it, there aren't enough hours in the week for that, even if I didn't sleep or eat. No, I don't know for sure which students will get As or Fs. But I know where to focus my attention.

Any time you deal with a population, you want those studies.

But the proposal that's triggered this is 10 pages long. I've heard so many news folk who report on this and show by their words and what they say and don't say that they haven't read it. Among those who show they have read it, there are two groups: People with at least a toe in the sciences who say, "Not so badly written" and those who don't, "It's sexist and racist and discriminates against all life, including tardigrades!" Again, advocates for truth and advocates for Truth.

Speaking of Truth ... The other problem with this entire discussion is the intense medieval mysticism that many progressives spout. A medieval Xian monk would have said we are souls trapped in sinful bodies, and the soul must overcome the flesh and exceed its bounds.

Many WEIRDs are essentially the same. They are pure spirits who are so much greater than their bodies, and they must overcome natural limits. They aren't their cells and blood chemistry. No, they're idiots. They get high using THC, a drug that messes with their "spirit" so they know they're insane, but anosognosia is part of the disease. They age. They die. They're offended by all kinds of limits that are there that they believe cannot be there. It's not just biology--I have kids who insist they should get As even though they were busy with student groups and band and simply didn't have enough hours in the day. If time is a limit to be overcome, surely a little matter like DNA can be.

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