Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Quixote1818

(28,936 posts)
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 12:08 AM Aug 2017

The Founding Fathers sure did a poor job with checks and balances against a complete idiot


Trump is showing that there are a lot of holes in our Constitution. What the fuck is with there being unlimited pardon power in one person's hands? Why would that ever be a good idea?
17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Founding Fathers sure did a poor job with checks and balances against a complete idiot (Original Post) Quixote1818 Aug 2017 OP
clearly, the election of a total monster like dump was beyond their comprehension NRaleighLiberal Aug 2017 #1
It is beyond... 3catwoman3 Aug 2017 #5
The electoral college was supposed to protect us, they failed to do their job. ImpeachTheGOP Aug 2017 #2
They couldn't anticipate the degree to which marybourg Aug 2017 #9
Congress is also supposed to protect us. They are failing to do their job. tanyev Aug 2017 #16
they designed around what they considered a worst case scenario..... Takket Aug 2017 #3
They gave future Americans too much credit for good judgment. lpbk2713 Aug 2017 #4
"We hold these truths to be self-evident" flamingdem Aug 2017 #6
true for shrub then..... quickesst Aug 2017 #7
Unnn, the speaker of the house and the Senate maj leader aren't supposed to be traitors too uponit7771 Aug 2017 #8
They couldn't envision the treachery of the modern Republican Party... Barack_America Aug 2017 #10
Actually, it's not the fault of the constitution. Bluepinky Aug 2017 #11
Adding to all of this is that the repubs have been laying the groundwork for a strongly divided unitedwethrive Aug 2017 #12
some very fine responses above mine Angry Dragon Aug 2017 #13
they didn't consider 63 million fucking idiots, Russia and the FBI Skittles Aug 2017 #14
No one could possibly have imagined Trump... Rhiannon12866 Aug 2017 #15
Moral naivety given the very different age they lived in. Kentonio Aug 2017 #17
 

ImpeachTheGOP

(89 posts)
2. The electoral college was supposed to protect us, they failed to do their job.
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 12:21 AM
Aug 2017

Hamilton wrote about it in the Federal Papers.

People are easily swayed by con men. That's why we don't have direct democracy. The idea was that if the people were fooled by a demagogue or snake oil salesman that the electoral college would instead assure that a qualified person would be elected president.

That did not happen obviously. Electors are not supposed to be party representatives, they're supposed to be independent people who can judge whether or not a person is deserving of the presidency.

The provisions to stop this madness were there, the directives just weren't followed.

marybourg

(12,631 posts)
9. They couldn't anticipate the degree to which
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 02:28 AM
Aug 2017

democracy has leveled up the populace, making it impossible for an "elite" group, the electoral college, to overrule the "will of the people" as expressed in the election. We now have the worst aspects of the elitist electoral college scheme, without it being able to yield any benefits.

I think the only workable solution is to go to the popular vote. This will take an enormous effort over decades to achieve. Maybe we should start working toward this now.

tanyev

(42,556 posts)
16. Congress is also supposed to protect us. They are failing to do their job.
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 07:44 AM
Aug 2017

The Founding Fathers never dreamed all three branches of government would be compromised.

Takket

(21,566 posts)
3. they designed around what they considered a worst case scenario.....
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 12:28 AM
Aug 2017

unfortunately.... it is now worse than that............ and we the people are left with very little recourse as 1/3 of the country wreaks terror on everyone.

lpbk2713

(42,757 posts)
4. They gave future Americans too much credit for good judgment.
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 12:41 AM
Aug 2017



They sat around exchanging ideas and agreed "surely they will never be that fucking stupid" .

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
6. "We hold these truths to be self-evident"
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 12:56 AM
Aug 2017

Bill Maher addresses this tonight on New Rules.

It was obvious to the ethical and intelligent but now with Trump you have to write it all down in the rule book.

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
7. true for shrub then.....
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 01:52 AM
Aug 2017

....even more fitting for not my president.


?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1362120013139

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
10. They couldn't envision the treachery of the modern Republican Party...
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 02:38 AM
Aug 2017

...or the stupidity of the voters who repeatedly voted them into office to dismantle the republic.

The constitution is actually largely working; this is specifically the consequence of the will of the voters, election integrity concerns aside (which highlights the need for those concerns to be at the forefront).

Bluepinky

(2,268 posts)
11. Actually, it's not the fault of the constitution.
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 02:39 AM
Aug 2017

Trump wasn't elected by Americans, the entire election process was corrupted by a foreign power. The Constitution forbids treason, which occurred on so many levels and by so many individuals allowing Trump to claim the office of President. The founding fathers failed to anticipate that an entire political party would cheat, lie and steal on a massive scale to achieve and maintain power, that people in government would put party and power over their country. This didn't start with Trump, it started with Reagan, who encouraged people to dislike and distrust the government.

unitedwethrive

(1,997 posts)
12. Adding to all of this is that the repubs have been laying the groundwork for a strongly divided
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 02:52 AM
Aug 2017

country for years. They have taken every opportunity to pit citizens against each other and use highly charged wedge issues as cornerstones of their campaigns. Then to top it all off, they have chosen party over country, something the founding fathers never thought would happen. Most repub congress people would rather see the Democrats defeated than to have anything left of the Constitution.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
17. Moral naivety given the very different age they lived in.
Sat Aug 26, 2017, 07:50 AM
Aug 2017

These days the rules have to be nailed down detail by detail or else people will find immoral loopholes or abuses of power. Things like the presidential pardon desperately need to be curtailed.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The Founding Fathers sure...