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how many years have republicans claimed all our problems will go away with tax cuts? (Original Post) spanone Aug 2017 OP
Another gift from MyOwnPeace Aug 2017 #1
My entire adult life Cosmocat Aug 2017 #2
Tax cuts for the Wealthiest will trickle down. Trickle down where and to whom? democratisphere Aug 2017 #3
it never has.....and never will. spanone Aug 2017 #4
It started in the 1920s when republicans controlled everything in Washington. Elwood P Dowd Aug 2017 #5
Then It Died For A While ProfessorGAC Aug 2017 #8
Tax cuts worked out so well for GW Bush world wide wally Aug 2017 #6
A long time atreides1 Aug 2017 #7
The other thing people bought into was voting for candidates who hate government. CrispyQ Aug 2017 #9
Laffer-Lympics. HughBeaumont Aug 2017 #10
At least 40. Voltaire2 Aug 2017 #11
my thoughts exactly; they gotta be kidding me. nt TheFrenchRazor Aug 2017 #12
And what of the Deficit and Debt? maxsolomon Aug 2017 #13
Hey can keep doing it for as long as billionaires keep bankrolling it... JHB Aug 2017 #14

Cosmocat

(14,564 posts)
2. My entire adult life
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 03:14 PM
Aug 2017

since the early 90s ...

To answer your question, this country is even more stupid today than then, so we are pretty much doomed to die with them still getting away with it.

Elwood P Dowd

(11,443 posts)
5. It started in the 1920s when republicans controlled everything in Washington.
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 03:37 PM
Aug 2017

Warren Harding, Calvin Coolidge, and Herbert Hoover were repuke presidents, and the rich were given huge tax breaks.

ProfessorGAC

(65,010 posts)
8. Then It Died For A While
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 03:44 PM
Aug 2017

Then, Kennedy lowered taxes on the very rich to 50%, but closed many loopholes, so really it was a tax increase, because nobody was actually paying 90%, even though the rate was that high.

It died again until the Carter administration when the ascending of what became the Reaganites, started talking about it as a result of the inflation issues that started under Nixon and Ford. (The claim was they were going to grow the real GDP so that the velocity of money would increase and dampen inflation. No proof that such a move would actually work.)

That drumbeat got really loud when Laffer became a celebrity and people actually believed his famous curve was meaningful statistics. So, the supply side drumbeat became the raison d'etre of the R's.

It has been an unceasing mantra ever since.

atreides1

(16,076 posts)
7. A long time
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 03:44 PM
Aug 2017

1.Since Reagan was president!


2.As long as poor Republicans believe that they're just millionaires waiting for their big break!


It really isn't that amazing, you just have to consider those that buy into the BS!



CrispyQ

(36,461 posts)
9. The other thing people bought into was voting for candidates who hate government.
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 03:50 PM
Aug 2017

The sheer hypocrisy of running for government office while claiming to hate government would keep me from voting for that person.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
10. Laffer-Lympics.
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 03:52 PM
Aug 2017
Reagan unleashed a 37-year bulldozing of middle/working/poor progress.

The main argument using the Laffer curve to cut taxes is as follows:

1. If the income tax rate were 0 percent, the government gets zero revenue because it isn't collecting any money.

2. If the income tax rate were 100 percent, nobody has an incentive to work in taxable jobs[1] because nobody gets to actually keep any money they earn. So nobody works in taxable jobs. When nobody works in taxable jobs, nobody has taxable income to tax. Therefore, the government gets zero revenue in this instance also.

3. Given 1 and 2, the government revenue is maximized at some tax rate between 0 and 100 percent. The Laffer curve is a plot of government revenue as a function of tax rate. It is zero at 0% and 100% tax rates, and it looks something like a parabola (you should know this from mathematics class). Where the maximum occurs is a wild-ass guess. (Or, one could try to use some method like binary bisection or graphing means to find the maximum. We've done this with interesting results, see below.)

4. Given 3, taxes should therefore be slashed.

snip

Premise 2 is easily challenged. Obviously a country can't have a 100% tax rate; if nobody works in a taxable job, this would mean nobody is working any jobs other than subsistence farming, thereby setting the country back by roughly ten thousand years (though it could also be held to reflect an economy where all wealth distribution was managed directly by the government). However, even if the top-earner tax rate was very high (say, 90%), people would still work. After all, keeping 10 percent of your wages is better than earning nothing at all. Indeed, the highest income tax bracket rate in the United States was close to 90% during World War II, and everything seemed to work just fine then (albeit, this was for those making $100K then, before inflation[2]).

Point 4 above does not necessarily follow from the prior points. Assuming the Laffer curve's assumptions are correct, cutting taxes would only increase government revenue if the current tax rate is greater than the "optimal" tax rate (where "optimal" means the rate that maximizes government revenue, not necessarily the optimal tax rate for the overall economy and society). If the current tax rate is on the wrong (left) side of the maximum in the Laffer curve, cutting taxes decreases revenue, which counteracts the whole point of mentioning the curve in the first place. To justify cutting taxes on the basis of raising revenue, the Laffer curve's proponents have to, first, define the "ideal" tax rate that maximizes revenue (which requires doing your math homework); and, secondly showing that the current tax rate is on the high side of the "optimal" (as defined above) tax rate. You can't just shout "Laffer curve!" decrease taxes, and expect everything to be great. (And that's what Saint Ronnie actually did.)

Doing the actual work required shows the Laffer curve calls to increase taxes right now. One study of the United States between 1959 and 1991 placed the revenue-maximizing tax rate (the point at which another tax rate increase would decrease tax revenue) at between 32.67% and 35.21%.[3] In 1991 the "average" tax rate was 19.58%. The US is currently on the lower side of the maximum tax rate predicted by Laffer's curve. Hsing also concluded that Reagan's tax cuts reduced revenue, since the average tax rate at the time was only 20.41%. This means Laffer's curve has completely backfired in what it was said it was supposed to do (increase government revenue).


Voltaire2

(13,023 posts)
11. At least 40.
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 03:54 PM
Aug 2017

But for some value of "our problems" they are correct. The rich have done very well indeed with each cut.

maxsolomon

(33,327 posts)
13. And what of the Deficit and Debt?
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 05:53 PM
Aug 2017

Those were once important - when Dems were in power.

Under Evil Clinton we had a surplus. A surplus is necessary to pay down the Debt.

But it turns out, shocker, they don't REALLY care about that.

JHB

(37,159 posts)
14. Hey can keep doing it for as long as billionaires keep bankrolling it...
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 05:58 PM
Aug 2017

...which means "for quite some time".

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