My greatest fear is that the suffering in and around Houston is just beginning....

[kentuck]

...and nobody, especially the government, is ready to handle this long-term crisis?

I have no faith at all in the President of the United States to lead during these trying times.

Over time, people need water, food, and some type of permanent shelter. This is not a government that they can depend upon.

This is a full-scale crisis and should be recognized as such by our leaders.

[raven mad]

1. I'm scared for them too.

I wish there was much more I could do, personally. There isn't. I'm tapped out monetarily, gave all I could, volunteered time to coordinate efforts from here.

It's horrendous. And there won't be "normal" for a long, long time.

[UnFettered]

2. You are absolutely correct

It is going to be a long road to recovery for the people of Houston. This thing is only beginning once the flood waters receded and news cameras go away.

[lsewpershad]

26. Mmhhmm

[redwitch]

3. He so desperately wants to brag about how he handled this.

He is such a fool.

[CozyMystery]

6. Trump told TX governor "We'll congratulate each other when this over" (from my memory)

[redwitch]

11. Yeah that was breathtakingly awful.

But not at all surprising.

[OldHippieChick]

21. Someone told him about Bush's "Brownie"

moment, so he was doing his best not to have one of those, but couldn't help himself from coming close. What a child. Little impulse control. Suspect he will come even closer when he visits Saturday. After all, he already thinks he's seen the devastation "first hand".

[Roy Rolling]

28. When it's over?

I live at ground zero for Hurricane Katrina. It was a year before FEMA trailers left, and many neighborhoods have NEVER recovered. It takes years, but the short attention span president can't comprehend the breadth.

Also, "fine upstanding Tea Party and other Republicans" operated crash pads to house dozens of Mexican immigrants for their construction companies. Much of the Sheetrock and roof work was done by undocumented workers, housed in one-room dormitories.

So tell me again how a wall will hide those wads of cash dangled in front of poor workers by such illegal employers.

[cilla4progress]

4. I too have a sense...

Seeing the photos and hearing the stories brings to mind some third world country somewhere...

tRump's America. The beginning of a long, slow slide, I'm afraid. Ironic it is starting in a strong republican state and part of the country.

[Initech]

5. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

[matt819]

7. It's not a matter of not being ready

The larger issue is that they don't care. If it's not affecting the buffoon in chief, it's irrelevant. It's not even a matter of not caring. It's the fact that because it doesn't affect him, it doesn't exist. Think about it. On Sunday morning, he was plugging a book. And he wasn't even back in Washington yet before he started tweeting about political shit. I'm not even sure this kind of psychiatric condition has a name. It goes so far beyond malignant narcissism or sociopathy.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. People who haven't lived through natural disasters will find it difficult to understand them.

The idea of normal changes. And to outsiders, it makes no sense.

[MineralMan]

9. Your fears are completely justified.

We're about to see the media coverage of this disaster start to wane. Unless you are in the Houston area, you'll hear less and less about the aftermath over time. The suffering and misery, however, will still exist, without doubt.

And, once the media coverage goes away, so will the support of this government, which acts on a temporary basis in all things.

[OldHippieChick]

22. Though you are mostly correct MM - I worked for feds after

Katrina. Didn't even start until nearly 8 months afterward and the work went on for 2 years. There is just not much news coverage as it is too boring for ratings.

[greymattermom]

10. So can a house be "totaled" like a car?

Could you take your money, pay off your mortgage, and just leave? Or if you have a mortgage are you stuck?

[zipplewrath]

13. Not really

You buy not just the building, but the underlying property. Your building can be "totaled" (mostly by the government declaring it "uninhabitable&quot , but you'll still own the property. Depending upon what you owe on a mortgage, the building may not result in a check big enough to pay for the land. Property value can often be between 1/5th and 1/3rd the total value.

The real problem is that these people will be truly homeless. Unless they have significant means, they'll be facing a choice between paying the mortgage, or renting shelter. My brother survived Katrina, but chose to live in a "FEMA trailer" in his driveway for 9 months while the house was restored, because the cost of paying for 2 homes was more than he wanted to spend. But he was a man of some means. I can't imagine what many of these people will be doing for a while. Ultimately a trailer may become available, but it can take a couple of months.

[DK504]

12. So when the Shrub was in office Katrina destroyed

damn near everything she touched. President Obama had Sandy and he had people all over that before it started, hell he even worked with that bastard KKKristy. Now we have the Orange Maggot and he watches TV and isn't even invited to the Sit. Room for the disaster.

Wow....the compare and contrast of Party's is awful.

[bucolic_frolic]

14. What's Trump gonna say?

"Heckuva job, Brownie!"??

[roomtomove]

15. Perhaps they can set up tent cities.......

just like the rest of the third world does for refugees........

[Wounded Bear]

18. Nah, we give them RVs...

remember the FEMA trailers after Katrina?

[mgardener]

16. And if trump and republicans

Take 1 billion from recovery money to build the wall, all hell will break loose.
If the Republicans give big tax breaks to business and the wealthy when others are suffering, I hope all hell will break loose.
Look for the Republican to start talking about Medicare, SS and health insurance cuts. Throw in food stamps and Head start for good measure.

[Wounded Bear]

17. I'd say it's a certainty...

We watched NOLA drown, and it is still not fully recovered.

Another great American city dies right before out eyes. You figure that most of those houses will be uninhabitable, and won't be without epic repairs and cleaning.

Houston.

[Initech]

19. And the GOP wants to further de-regulate everything.

Which means the next hurricane - the devastation will be far worse than Houston or NOLA, and it will be a gold mine for contractors.

[IronLionZion]

24. Houston's economy was stronger than New Orleans

as the oil companies and shipping industry would probably have an interest in rebuilding, along with many other large employers who probably won't leave. The rebound may be faster than NOLA.

There will be a ton of jobs available for folks involved in clean up and rebuilding. Where the money will come to pay for that is uncertain as most do not have flood insurance and the GOP is not about to give those freeloaders handouts.

Trump's companies might get some no bid contracts to build stuff and buy up land real cheap.

[jmbar2]

20. On the other hand...

Before the storm, Houston had about a 10% apartment vacancy rate, so there is some capacity to rehouse, depending on how much of that is left. And the citizens of Houston really do have a can-do spirit. They will make things happen in spite of gov ineptitude.

My brother lives across the street from the "Mexican bus station" - essentially the Mx version of greyhound. After Trump started slamming immigrants, he said they started leaving in droves. They are more worried after the storm of being picked up by ICE if they ask for services. Most of the construction and dirty work in Texas is performed by undoc immigrants from Mexico. The long term unemployed in Houston won't have the skills to fill those jobs. So that might slow down recovery quite a bit.

The biggest issue I see is that there is a large population of very low-income African American communities that have suffered disproportionately. The areas where they live(d) is now prime real estate. They will get booted out, and have no place to go. Harvey will be a big boost to massive gentrification.

[IronLionZion]

23. Trump will give them tax cuts

because what's important now is to cut funding for disaster relief, FEMA, flood insurance, health insurance, and infrastructure like stormwater management.

Any able bodied people who could rebuild homes in the Houston area will be sent to the Mexican border for wall building duty.

[radical noodle]

25. Our small town in Indiana flooded a few years ago

It was the first time I'd ever encountered a natural disaster. We didn't live right in the town, so we were high and dry, but my daughter lived in the town. Although the house didn't flood (as in flooding the main floor), it did flood her basement. Everything was ruined... furnace/AC, water heater, everything stored down there. The FEMA funds went only so far. She wasn't in a flood plain so had no flood insurance. There was worry about contamination in the basement from all the bacteria in the water. It is not an easy job nor is it a quick job, and it will literally take years to get so many people back to any sort of normalcy when they will likely have to kick in some of the money themselves.

I will likely be dead before everyone in this flood will be whole again... if that ever happens.

[The_Casual_Observer]

27. With the lack of regulations in Texas, people will just return to those flooded houses

and inhabit them. Nobody will care what they do.

[Yossarian22]

29. I have confidence in President Obama

It would seem incredible that any of the departments that President Obama set up and managed over 8 years, could be dismantled in a mere 8 months. If you've ever worked with a government agency, you know that change is slow, and much of the change happens at the annual budget cycle. Pretty much everything in place today should have been vetted and approved in 2015/2016. So luckily, the departments should still be run by Obama administration hires, or at least Obama administration strategic planning.

[LovingA2andMI]

30. Houston Will Become The Drip, Drip, Drip End of Cheeto's Occupying The White House....

It is a reason Mike Pence is going DIRECTLY into the disaster zone today and it is directly tied into showing Cheeto how it is done. As in, his Mother (Wife) will not be wearing seven-inch heels, a top-gun flight jacket and $2000.00 designer frames. Pence will not be wearing any form of suede boots to walk in water or marketing a USA hat.

Pence and his Mother (Wife) will have photo ops galore passing out blankets in the Shelters in the Houston area. Flying over with National Guard or Navy Troops doing an on-the-ground recuse, praying with a family displaced by the hurricane.

To be frank, Mike Pence will become POTUS today in Houston and Cheeto -- will only be a placeholder until he is removed by Mueller.

As for the total destruction in Houston and East Texas, not only will it be felt there but the entire United States of America. The economic depression of 2017 is named Harvey and sadly for East Texans and Americans in general, the ride will be bumpy indeed.

[politicat]

31. This may be the only good that comes from Houston's hard opposition to zoning.

Last edited Thu Aug 31, 2017, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

A very good new urbanist reclamation plan came out of Katrina -- the expandable Katrina Cottage plan set. It starts with a $20K, factory built, 300-450 sq foot house. (It's cheaper, better built, much bigger than the FEMA trailers, and hurricane rated to CAT 4 (140 mph winds).) The first cottage can sit on a trailer frame and be used while the prior construction demolition is ongoing, then be shifted to a 3-4 foot tall pier and beam foundation on top of the old foundation. Indeed, quarters are tight for the first year or two, but less tight than a FEMA trailer, and more durable, and they get neighborhoods back together. They're designed to add on, so a couple years later, it's not difficult to site-build a second, attached structure, and those have multiple variations. There are also designs built to be wheelchair accessible. The trailer'ed versions can be placed as soon as the water is down, the driveway is level, and they can be wired into the grid and onto the water system, or roof-top solar can be installed on the roof for most of the power use. (Because a small house uses less electricity.) They can be built in 30-45 days, less as production ramps up. It'll take that long to shovel out streets, clear the pipes and power lines, and get initial funding.

http://leanurbanism.org/publications/the-katrina-cottage-movement-a-case-study/

The Katrina cottage system is built on the concept of NOLA's shotgun cottages -- narrow face, long building, elevated, with a full front porch and good air flow. They don't use drywall at all and use SIP (Structural Insulated Panels) for exterior walls. Some SIPs can get wet without become mold cultures, so the idea is they can get flooded and recover. Interior walls are tongue and groove wood, which also survive water better.

Since Houston doesn't do zoning (though ghu knows they should) there aren't many legal barriers to this. The big issue is getting the insurers who do pay out to not "rebuild exactly what was there". That's how we've always done insurance, and it's not a wise move, because in a mass damage event, it becomes clear that "what we did before" is not functional. It makes sense to restore a house that experienced a water heater failure to to what was there; it doesn't when a neighborhood has been hit 4 times in eight years.

There are also some 3-D prints of housing using concrete as the print material. I think those all require a grade level concrete foundation, so while they're more or less waterproof, they're low.

We have the technology and the wisdom to do this. I just don't know if Swiss Re, Munich Re and AXA will be firm enough with their on the ground insurers to force a change.

ETA: The Port of Houston also has an option for temp housing; shipping containers. They safely stack, they're habitable with about 10 days of work, electricity and plumbing, and 2 make a fair studio; three make a 1 br or small 2 bedroom. http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to/g172/shipping-container-homes-460309/

[Warpy]

33. That sounds like a great idea

but a lot of people are going to want what they had where they had it so the mean old gummint is going to have to step in somewhere, getting them out of filled-in wetlands by eminent domain and otherwise encouraging sensible construction high off the ground in areas that flood only every 100 years or so.

I mentioned in another thread that The Netherlands are encouraging people who live in the significantly below sea level areas to build smaller houses that can float off the piers holding them up. That sounds like an admirable solution to their own occasional flooding and a fantastic solution should they be hit by a mega storm, certainly not out of the question.

Sea level is rising, and people are going to have to be encouraged away from wetlands and coastal areas by carrots if possible, and sticks in the form of regulation if not.

We'll have to get the Republicans out first, of course. Otherwise we can expect the same thing to happen here a hell of a lot sooner than anyone who thinks they're going to rebuild their McHouses the same way they were before the storm and in the same bad places.

[Warpy]

32. The trash pickup alone is going to take months

as people remove sodden furniture and rugs and then realize they also have to remove sheetrock and insulation to above the water line. That's a lot of shit going to a landfill and it takes forever to get it all picked up.

People who think they can go home after the water goes down are in for a lot of really ugly surprises, especially in that climate. Mold is going to be a huge issue. Even things that were above the water and didn't get soaked are going to have to be treated for mold.

All of this is going to apply to a lot of businesses where people no longer have jobs. Seeing the water go down is only the beginning. The rest will take a very long time.