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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Romney would drop out of the presidential race before ever releasing further tax returns."
From Abby Huntsman, Jon Huntsman's daughter, at Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-huntsman/mitt-romney-tax-returns_b_1675711.html
So, if you believe these arguments to be true, why not just confront the controversy head on as Obama did in 2008 with Wright? If one has nothing to hide, why not release a set of comprehensive records (Romney reportedly, after all, provided the McCain campaign with 20+ years of returns when being vetted for VP)? The answer is simple -- he must have something to hide.
Could he actually be worth more than is being estimated under federal disclosure filings (currently ~$190-250 million)? Has putting money in offshore accounts in some way lowered the amount of taxes he's had to pay (according to his campaign, the answer is no)? Or, is there significant income from Bain that was earned after his departure in 1999 (when Romney claims to have not been involved in Bain's investment decisions)? And lastly, was a deal stuck with fellow Bain partners that Romney could never disclose certain information about the firm and its income (since Bain remains a private company)?
It's difficult to know, but one thing is evident -- Romney and his campaign would only weather the current storm if the alternative of releasing additional information about his taxes were even worse than the present. In fact, according to people close to the situation, Romney would drop out of the presidential race before ever releasing further tax returns. It does seem a bit ironic, that a man whose father was one of the champions of transparency with regards to a candidate's finances is now the most blatant offender in modern presidential politics. Even more ironic, is that in general any member of Romney's potential Cabinet (or political appointee confirmed by the Senate) would be required to submit at least three years of tax returns. It seems very strange that the most senior member of the Executive branch wouldn't be held to the same standard.
-snip-
So, while Romney's taxes might seem like a trivial issue in the dog days of summer, this topic is real and will influence the election. Controversies without a resolution remain just that, a controversy. The media will continue to push for answers on Romney's taxes, and the Obama campaign (and their super PAC supporters) will make sure it remains a big part of the conversation. But, beyond the talking points and politics, Romney continues to send a loud message to voters -- he'll do what is politically expedient at the time, with little concern for transparency. As the economy remains the #1 issue on voter's minds, this election should be Romney's to lose -- and that makes it all the scarier to hypothesize what he is hiding.
Emphasis added.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I remember all the barbs about his several houses.
paparush
(7,964 posts)Don't know if this is true.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)and many suspect that somebody who saw those returns
squealed to the Obama campaign.
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"In fact, according to people close to the situation, Romney would drop out of the presidential race before ever releasing further tax returns. "
Neither avenue would be good for Romney and the Republicans.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Unles by that you mean a total and unmitigated disaster of Biblical proportions, well, then...OK.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)First off this is a very good piece of writing - making sound poits, all unhelpful to Romney. But more interesting to me is this introduction (for me at least) to Abby Huntsman. She is clearly willing to stir things up in the public arena. She comes from a younger generation and we will probably b hearing more from her in the future. I am curious what she will have to say.
highplainsdem
(48,975 posts)hip is everything
(8 posts)the fact that it was Huntsman's daughter, someone who has already gotten herself involved in this campaign season willingly that is making these comments, is maybe the most interesting part to me ...
and that she makes these particular statements at a time when it's probably of no help to her dad makes me even more curious ...
I keep wondering when someone from the "mcgrumpypants/wailin' palin" camp is going to "accidentally" leak the info everyone wants to see ... after all, alaskan barbie and "I was a POW ya' know" have both shown themselves to be more than a little self-serving AND vengeful in the past ... to say the least ...
throw in the fact that neither one of them has turned out to be very good losers and you have all the makings of a real problem for mittens ...
poor little mittens ...
is this good riddance?
oh, please, please ...
aquart
(69,014 posts)karynnj
(59,503 posts)In addition, I doubt that McCain himself would leak anything to hurt Romney. Though he is a pretty flawed character, the one thing that is a constant in understanding him is that he perceives "honor" as he did in the military - allegiance to the organization he is in. Much as he cast himself as a maverick, you can't find a time where he actually moved against his party's leadership when it came down to him being the critical factor.
Not to mention, there is potential upside to him getting a Republican President. I would imagine that he sees himself as a very likely Secretary of Defense. (For a President Romney, even if the Senate (please God) stays with the Democrats, he would easily be confirmed and Arizona has a Republican Governor.) If not this, he likely would have more power than he does with President Obama as President to have his opinions heard.
Now, it is possible that some of the McCain team strongly dislike Romney - and have less loyalty to McCain than they should and a willingness to have Romney lose to facilitate a different part of the party winning in 2016. Remember that some of the McCain people included people who swiftboated not just Kerry, but McCain himself in 2000. Those people are likely not all that trustworthy.
gordianot
(15,237 posts)I suspect in some circles this is common knowledge.
emulatorloo
(44,121 posts)Mopar151
(9,983 posts)Why did'nt he think about sanitizing his finances a decade ago? Too f'n dumb to be Prez.......
WinstonSmith4740
(3,056 posts)Why did'nt he think about sanitizing his finances a decade ago?
For you youngsters out there, she and her husband owned a couple of luxury hotels in New York about 25 years ago. She was known for being wonderful to her dog, horrible to her employees and as "The Queen of Mean". She had once said that "Only little people pay taxes." After her husband Harry died, she was tried and found guilty of tax evasion.
I only bring this up to show another example of just how insulated the extremely wealthy are. They are totally disconnected from the rest of us. Remember Poppy Bush being fascinated by the scanners in supermarkets, and not knowing what milk costs? When you're struggling to make ends meet, that kind of disconnect does not endear you to the "little people". It's one of the reasons I have to laugh every time Mitt tries to connect with us and tries to be a "common man." These folks never see any reason to hide anything from their past...they don't see the need to. There's something REALLY nasty in those tax returns, and everyone knows it. Romney may not want to release them, and tax returns are private, but I'm sure Obama could see them if he wanted to. The ONLY thing that may come into play here is if there's nothing unusual in them, they show that Mittens never outsourced jobs, really wasn't running Bain after he resigned (retroactively, of course!), doesn't have any off-shore accounts, etc., and they release them at the last possible minute so they can say, "See, we told you." But I doubt it. Let's not forget that McCain saw 20 years worth, and then chose Palin.
MADem
(135,425 posts)coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)loudsue
(14,087 posts)and mittens prolly thought he was part of the protected elite. I still say the bush crime family are going to push Jeb into the fray during the GOP convention.
asjr
(10,479 posts)when they were building him.
Amonester
(11,541 posts)Dumb or entitled, or both.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And then the McCain folks found some things he missed.
blm
(113,057 posts)Bushes have always been global in their private financial dealings for many decades.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,958 posts)his most recent but still unreleased returns (at least back to what is referenced in the tax laws). Seems to me there may be something fishy there right around the time of the market crash perhaps?
closeupready
(29,503 posts)in a tax haven such as the Philippines or Belize, probably both - jurisdictions which (as I recall) refuse to cooperate with US tax authorities.
paparush
(7,964 posts)lindysalsagal
(20,682 posts)Melodically ambiguous
Stylistically ambiguous
Rhythmically ambiguous
Emotionally ambiguous
How can a guy with so much money have absolutely nothing else going for him???
Wounded Bear
(58,653 posts)an old term, but still apropos.
elleng
(130,895 posts)Not poetic, but you get the idea!
MoonchildCA
(1,301 posts)n/t
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)those running the Republican Party are not, and shouldnt be underestimated. They want to win and it doesnt make sense that they would make a mistake this bad. While you watch Rmoney disassemble, keep your hand on your wallet.
Jessy169
(602 posts)What are the chances that Karl Rove didn't see this coming? My guess is, about zero. Don't be surprised if Rove pulls a political rabbit out of his hat and greases this issue with his own special brand of lies and spin. There's too much high-fiving and dancing in the streets going on, and it is still a long campaign to November. Rove for sure has some secret weapons that he hasn't deployed yet. We better watch out.
zazen
(2,978 posts)The economy will continue to sink in the next four years under Obama, helped by Republican intransigency in Congress.
Rove et al wanted to be sure the Republican in 2012 lost--but one whom no sizeable portion of the party would be too upset about if thrown to the dogs.
That's my theory, anyway.
is exactly what I've been thinking. And rMoney is out of the loop -- the unknowing sacrificial lamb, if you will. We've heard since before the primaries that the rethug PTB didn't like him, didn't want him, no-way, no-how. So no viable 2016 candidate is wasted in the 2012 presidential race that they actually don't want to win. Very clever and nefarious. I believe their focus is on gubernatorial and legislative slots until they can have the whole enchilada.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)I have this feeling that the Rovians are setting rMoney up for a fall at or before the convention. There is just too much piling on coming from the corporatist side. They're so good at circling the wagons no matter what their guy does, that their failure to even try makes me suspicious.
Imagine that Mittens is kicked to the curb in mid-late August -- or at the convention itself. All of a sudden the GOP picks someone most people hadn't expected. Could be Jeb, could be someone else. Now the Democrats have only six weeks or so to define the candidate and launch an attack against him. Meanwhile, the GOP can just continue its assault on Obama using a play book they've had assembled for years.
That, in my mind, could be dangerous for the Democrats. They'd spend the first week just scratching their heads and going "WTF?"
Alternate scenario: The corporatists maneuver Mittens into office but with a poison-pill VP. The Bain shit comes crashing down within a few months of inauguration and the VP takes over -- AND the GOP has a chance to appoint a new VP who will only need to squeak through the corporate congress. We've already seen with Cheney how a VP can actually be the president with merely a figurehead in the oval office.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I think they were keeping their options open for Jeb. But Rmoney may be disassembling sooner than they wanted. They may have to expose their hand.
And I totally believe that if Rmoney got elected, he wouldnt be running the show ala Bush II.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)it would get very messy before a result is determined.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)"I'm W's smarter brother" isn't gonna work this close to his disastrous presidency.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)how Romney and Bain bought companies, borrowed in the name of the company far more than the company was worth and, when the debts could not be paid, took profits, paid themselves handsomely, and closed the businesses, fired the workers and then ditched the creditors and other investors. The article discusses deals Romney made in the 1990s while claims he was in charge at Bain.
Thanks to leverage, 10 of roughly 67 major deals by Bain Capital during Romneys watch produced about 70 percent of the firms profits. Four of those 10 deals, as well as others, later wound up in bankruptcy. Its worth examining some of them to understand Romneys investment style at Bain Capital.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-15/romney-s-bain-yielded-private-gains-socialized-losses.html
So, in four of 67 deals, four of the most lucrative of his deals, Romney loaded the company with debt and then closed the company leaving employees and investors adrift in the debt.
That reminds me of the way that Reagan, and Bush II ran the country. That reminds me of the way the Republicans are always scaring people about our debts.
Romney made himself a lot of money -- but some of it was made by ruining companies, not by building them. And that's from Bloomberg News, not from the Obama campaign.
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)It was an absolute bombshell. They savaged those companies, taking on all that debt to pay themselves millions and millions, the let them die in bankruptcy, or sold them off and offshored the workers who worked their asses of to SAVE the company. I'm thinking of that thing posted here the other day from someone fired in a Bain takeover. He talked of how they worked extra shifts, and worked like dogs, to "save" the company, but it was a ruse to sell it off to someone else and fire everyone.
This is the stuff that the American voters needs to know...
Wounded Bear
(58,653 posts)it's nice to see some write-ups from mainstream outlets. Perhaps it'll make it to the "news" channels eventually.
I'm not holding my breath, though. This financial stuff is kind of wonky for the average dinner hour viewer to sit through.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)companies that Bain bankrupted with those that Bain made grow.
Sometimes takeover artists would bankrupt a company partly in order to get out of contractual agreements with the former owners that required the company to continue paying the former owner.
aquart
(69,014 posts)Kahuna
(27,311 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I dont believe they made a stupid mistake when they picked Ms. Palin. She did exactly what she was supposed to do. Remember this is the party that stole two presidential elections in a row. This is a party where Bush and Cheney had the bluster and arrogance to blatantly lie to Americans about damn near everything. Yet they crawled out of town like whipped puppies. The choice of McDipShit and Ms. DipShit was no mistake. They let the people have their Democratic President and set out to ruin him expecting the public to come crawling back to the GOP.
The aristocrats themselves may not be smart, but they have enough money to buy smart.
aquart
(69,014 posts)They habitually insist on the shortest possible route to the guillotine and we keep installing detours.
Pale Blue Dot
(16,831 posts)They are good at politics, but not perfect. I doubt they have anything up their sleeves.
Jim__
(14,075 posts)I have to believe his former opponents are taking a lot of pleasure seeing Romney getting his ass kicked.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)Javaman
(62,530 posts)he's too much the narcissist to do so.
And because he's a sociopath, he can not fathom what the problem is to begin with.
I see lost mittens as the "going out in a blaze of glory" type. In this case, the "blaze of glory" would be continuing to deny any further involvement with bain after 1999 regardless of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. And to never release any more of his tax returns regardless of how many people, on both sides of the isle" demand it.
I believe aside from bain and his tax returns, there is so much more dirt that is going to come out about this halfwit.
lost mittens will continue to run because I honestly believe that he thinks that this is his destany.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)solara
(3,836 posts)If you have a "mean clown" phobia
geez
TrogL
(32,822 posts)The right-wing Wild Rose party looked like a shoe-in to be the next government. Then they had a series of "bozo moments" that brought the whole thing crashing down. One guy was blatantly homophobic, another thought he was the best candidate because he was white.
Javaman
(62,530 posts)a mushroom clown?
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)MissNostalgia
(159 posts)I'm not psychic, but I dreamt Romney quit the race around the time of the first debate. Now I rarely have dreams, yet before this Romney one, the last dream I had was a nightmare with one of my favorite singers passing away, this was February 9, 2012, the singer died on the 11th.
WinstonSmith4740
(3,056 posts)But I really have the feeling that Mitt will not even make it through to the convention. He's getting too much heat from both sides, and the party base never really cared for him in the first place. But we have to be very vigilant on this...Rove is a slime ball, and we all know that they base their campaigns on lies, innuendo, and obfuscation. I'm not sure they could tell the truth if they wanted to.
And welcome to DU!
MissNostalgia
(159 posts)Thank you for the warm welcome!
Tikki
(14,557 posts)I am. also, not psychic, but I' m beginning to wonder if the reason he won't release
all those returns is because there is something on them of a PERSONAL nature...
something to REALLY raise eyebrows.
Tikki
Its been fun speculating on what he is hiding, yet Im torn. I want him to last to the very end because Im curious to see how many republican DONT vote for him, especially here in the South where I am.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)McGovern was right all along) so that Obama's coat tails flip the House and add to our margin in the Senate.
A weakened and toxic Romney depresses Repig voter turnout for the dow-ballot races.
But I am also torn, as I love to see rich sociopaths humiliated, shamed and shunned. (Dominance and submission are really about the only language they understand.)
Welcome to DU, btw!
olegramps
(8,200 posts)Oh no
olegramps
(8,200 posts)When I was screaming "oh my God Romney won" he went into hysteria believing that wouldn't ever again get to ride inside again and would be strapped to the top of the car like a piece of baggage. I should also note that our faithful cat of ten years has petitioned for a name change from "Mittens" to "Michelle."
Raster
(20,998 posts)Botany
(70,504 posts)It is a fact that Mitt made money on the off shoring of jobs and leveraged buy outs
of companies but was Mitt one of the very rich that made tons of money betting that
economy was going into the toilet?
reformist2
(9,841 posts)AllyCat
(16,187 posts)I wonder if it had never occurred to him that there was anything wrong with his financial dealings until he released them to McCain and that campaign said, "Whoa!!! Hold the phone..." Is he that out of touch maybe?
Ineeda
(3,626 posts)You see, that was from one rich white guy to another. A brotherhood, doncha know.
wiggs
(7,812 posts)"If one has nothing to hide, why not release a set of comprehensive records (Romney reportedly, after all, provided the McCain campaign with 20+ years of returns when being vetted for VP)? The answer is simple -- he must have something to hide."
Not so simple. I believe this issue can be intentionally left to fester, inflate, and become the focus of everything financial having to do with Romney. If the stupid tax returns can come to represent a nation's doubts about an arrogant out-of-touch corporatist then the GOP will have succeeded in rolling all the legitimate and complex angst about undemocratic corporatism into one giant ball...only to be knocked down all at once when tax returns are released showing nothing new.
Romney is only one corporatist and the tax returns are only a small (IMO) component of why Romney isn't fit for office...but the GOP has a long history of boiling down complex positions into one fragment than can then be made gray, confused, unclear, and dismissed.
The whole issue of W's frat boy first 40 years went away when it was alleged that the document Rather used could have been forged. Torture, a complex wide ranging issue, was boiled down to whether or not water-boarding three bad guys shouldn't have happened.
If the returns were that bad, he would never have been allowed to run...especially since McCain's campaign saw them. I'm saying this is much ado about nothing and that dem leaders should continue to make the easy overall case that the last thing we need for president is an car-collecting, arrogant, horse-riding, lying, out-of-touch, tea-partying corporatist who believes that America's strength is directly related to CEO pay....that austerity combined with trickle-down should start tomorrow...that 40 million people should lose health care access so that taxes can be lowered for the 1%....that historically low taxes and historically high debt are unrelated...on and on. Easy.
Obama should say he doesn't care about the tax returns...there's enough of a record to make this an easy vote for Americans.
Jessy169
(602 posts)Exactly correct, wiggs. Look at all the excitement and hoopla being generated by these unreleased tax returns. Nothing will pour rain on this big Democratic victory celebration faster than Mitt Romney finally "breaking down" and releasing his tax returns -- but probably only back to 2003 -- and nothing of special interest being found there. Then Romney gets to strut around saying hey, I released my tax returns and there wasn't anything there. Next issue where Dems are saying Romney is hiding something, he points to this issue and says come on, they made a big issue out of my tax returns and there wasn't anything there, now they're doing it again. There are a LOT of ways that Rove and crew can turn this whole tax return issue back on the Dems in a major way. I have faith that Team Obama is one step ahead of Rove/Romney in this chess match, but we all need to temper our enthusiasm with some hard skepticism. November is a long ways off. Rove hasn't pulled any aces out of his sleeve yet, and you know he's got some to pull out. Yeah, it could be that we're witnessing Rove in an epic meltdown brought on by his ego and long history of using lies successfully to get his way, but don't count on it.
TrogL
(32,822 posts)FlaGranny
(8,361 posts)I think that the Obama campaign is very comfortable going after Romney's tax returns because they know something. They're too smart to go after him so hard without having some proof that Romney is hiding some bad stuff.
aquart
(69,014 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)Think about it... that's what he did when he ran for Gov. So right now they're busy amending the 2011 return, and probably a handful of others. Between the shredding machines at Bain, and the accountants pulling all nighters trying not to make him look like the tax-dodger, job-killer, dance horse investor, he is.
Count on it. They're going to go 'mittroactive' on the returns.
Jessy169
(602 posts)There's no way that they (Rove, Romney, the "team" did NOT see this coming. If their plan was to amend/falsify tax returns, then they already have that little job done, and some time ago. In fact, Romney probably knew 8 - 10 years ago (or more) that he would be running for president someday, and filed tax returns accordingly. Don't be surprise if Romney ends up releasing his tax returns all the way back to 2003 at least, and they are squeaky clean. I hope I'm wrong.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)You file a 1040X to amend your return, where you have to explicitly state what you're changing on your original return - you don't replace your entire 1040.
It would be Romney shining a giant spotlight on the parts of his returns he doesn't want us to see.
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)of Massachusetts in 2002. Nor did he release any in 1994 when he ran for the Senate and demanded to see Edward Kennedy's tax returns. How could returns at least going back to 2002 be harmful? He was Governor during much of that time. As a working elected official he was nonetheless engaged in embarrassing activities? Wow.
aquart
(69,014 posts)MICHAEL KRANISH, The Boston Globe: No, it's not, Judy.
You know, really, if you look back in the clippings, for 18 years, when Romney first ran for the U.S. Senate in 1994, he challenged Edward Kennedy, his opponent, to release his income taxes, and questioned whether Kennedy had something to hide. Sounds very familiar.
Kennedy did not release his taxes, but Romney said, if Kennedy would, he would do so himself the same day. It just never happened, so he didn't release his tax returns back in 1994. And then again when Romney ran for governor in 2002, he was asked about his income taxes and he said he was not going to release them for -- quote -- "privacy reasons."
The Globe has asked Romney for his tax returns really for almost two decades on a regular basis, whenever he's run for public office, and he's always refused. So it's an issue that has been around for a very long time. There's a saying in politics about get it out, get it out early. In this case, he's kept it private, hasn't released it.
DFW
(54,376 posts)Don't forget, Republicans will vote for their man even if he beheads his daughter live on Fox Noise.
They don't care. Fox has told them they don't care so they don't. Yes, they ARE that stupid.
ALL they care about is the evil Kenyan socialist in the White House named Barry, because that is what Fox Noise and National Hate Radio told them they care about. If they thought for themselves, there would only be about 1,750 people in the Republican Party, and Obama would carry all fifty states with comfortable majorities.
cloudbase
(5,513 posts)that gives Newt a woody.
Poor Callista.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)And luckily, R(money) looks like a complete crook by hiding them.
Harley Jacobson
(88 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)McCracken888
(1 post)I was until a few hours ago a registered Republican and have decided that I have had enough of the Republican Party and the Tea Party, and register as a democrat. Simply put, I have told all my Republican friends to reconsider what the Republicans and the Tea Party are doing. I have told them:
Hey, I dont know about you, But as a Republican Businessman who owns 100% of a business, I am always accountable for my business and my investments regardless of the others in my company that I have selected that are making the decisions.
My Advice to Mitt Romney; Show your tax statements to the American People if you want any possibility of having any of us in this nation to vote for you. Frankly, my business experience has shown when someone is hiding something, watch out for your pocket book and for your life. Everytime this kind of thing shows up, the truth comes out and simply confirms what I supected. I finally have woke up and smell the roses, instead of all the bull I have been told.
hlthe2b
(102,262 posts)you might ensure you capitalize that at least as often as you do Republicans. Oh, and maybe refer to yourself as a "FORMER Republican Businessman".....
These "little" things do make a difference--especially here.