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grasswire

(50,130 posts)
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 04:29 PM Jul 2012

I have lost much respect for Mormons in getting to know Romney

I always thought of Mormons as hard-working, thrifty people with a strong moral code.

The revelations of the ethics of the Romney family have made me realize that my perceptions were not correct. The Romneys rival the Bushes for fraud, graft, deceit and un-Americanism.

How did a pillar of the Mormon church ascend, with all that corruption going on?

Who are rank and file Mormons, anyway? Is the hoarding of foodstuffs that they do in any way connected to Romney's hoarding of money?

I apologize in advance to any Mormon DU-ers. I seek enlightenment.

82 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I have lost much respect for Mormons in getting to know Romney (Original Post) grasswire Jul 2012 OP
As a former mormon..... arbusto_baboso Jul 2012 #1
You had respect for mormons? Maybe its because some of my good friends in high school were ex-commun Erose999 Jul 2012 #2
sure, I know they are a cult and all that gibberish grasswire Jul 2012 #5
A lot of the rank and file are like that LadyHawkAZ Jul 2012 #23
I can't afford another child "just have another kid the government will pay" Rambis Jul 2012 #54
Mountain Meadows Massacre obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #58
Bbbbut they got tayvee commeitials an everythin! benld74 Jul 2012 #3
The Osmonds and that Choir did wonders for their reputation... reformist2 Jul 2012 #4
And that choir isn't even all that good. Occulus Jul 2012 #15
Some of the things the Osmonds have said in th epast few years Mopar151 Jul 2012 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author crazyjoe Jul 2012 #6
Pure anti-mormon bunk! Jayce Cox Jul 2012 #7
+1 treestar Jul 2012 #14
no, you are wrong grasswire Jul 2012 #17
Because you're calling an entire faith into question based on the actions of one member. wickerwoman Jul 2012 #22
This "one member" is a Bishop in the church _ed_ Jul 2012 #43
My 96 year old granny is Catholic. wickerwoman Jul 2012 #64
Utter nonsense _ed_ Jul 2012 #74
And the point that I made wickerwoman Jul 2012 #79
DING DING DING! KamaAina Jul 2012 #76
You're judging a group based on the activities of one treestar Jul 2012 #30
I'm not. Wife had to do a research project for a degree JanMichael Jul 2012 #49
You can't choose your gender _ed_ Jul 2012 #80
Mormons don't have a history of racism throught the organization? Like the GOP and it's "southern uponit7771 Jul 2012 #34
Mormon culture certainly does foster certain traits Sheepshank Jul 2012 #42
well said. n/t Whisp Jul 2012 #45
Grasswire doesn't owe you an apology for a thing JanMichael Jul 2012 #48
Your right Jayce Cox Jul 2012 #63
Romney doesn't represent all Mormons... soccer1 Jul 2012 #8
According to a neighbor of mine who grew up in SLC scorpiogirl Jul 2012 #9
Consider that Joseph Smith was a convicted con-artist... backscatter712 Jul 2012 #10
Right, the WHOLE thing is a huge sham Iggy Jul 2012 #28
Oh...you must be talking about the 4th version of the First Vision.... Sheepshank Jul 2012 #44
Totally agree. DCBob Jul 2012 #11
No problem dissing Rmoney or any church hierarchy but to brush all adherents isn't right REP Jul 2012 #12
I disagree atreides1 Jul 2012 #57
As an atheist I've always been pretty disrespectful of believers. rMoney takes the hypocrisy riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #13
How convenient for him lunatica Jul 2012 #24
My brother married into the LDSism. sadbear Jul 2012 #16
Jon Huntsman is a Mormon JI7 Jul 2012 #18
I could care less, the de facto organizational racism will come through him also and there's little uponit7771 Jul 2012 #37
Huntsman, by his own admission, isn't particularly active in that church Sheepshank Jul 2012 #46
I believe he is a Jack Mormon obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #59
There are good and bad people in every faith RFKHumphreyObama Jul 2012 #19
Agreed with you on that. AverageJoe90 Jul 2012 #82
I used to hang out with some Mormon kids in high school and they were very normal. limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #20
Well, consider that Tricky Dick Nixon was a Quaker... eShirl Jul 2012 #21
No.. what it means Iggy Jul 2012 #27
Thanks, that was my point. eShirl Jul 2012 #70
The pro-marriage equality Mormon contingent in the Seattle LGBT Pride March eridani Jul 2012 #25
Wow, that's really good to hear. HappyMe Jul 2012 #51
Wait, Have you read the recent Bloomberg Iggy Jul 2012 #26
Like Bill Maher put it a few weeks ago... backscatter712 Jul 2012 #61
This is a Temple Jayce Cox Jul 2012 #67
I'm not a fan of the Catholic Church either. backscatter712 Jul 2012 #68
Having done business with Mormons it seems to me that they have two sets of standards. OregonBlue Jul 2012 #29
Hahaha! sadbear Jul 2012 #31
That really is funny. Thanks for the laugh!! OregonBlue Jul 2012 #33
They are domionist at the very top of the ladder, everyone else is shit to them and they could uponit7771 Jul 2012 #36
My father was had the same experience obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #60
No less ridiculous than believing the Garden of Eden is (was) anywhere else Hippo_Tron Jul 2012 #69
i feel rmoney is a sociopath first and perhaps a morman second or third dembotoz Jul 2012 #32
The defacto racism from the organization is coming through via rMoney. the "foreign" stick is uponit7771 Jul 2012 #35
People confuse the Mormons with the Amish flamingdem Jul 2012 #38
Because 1)he's white and 2)he's Not Obama Freddie Jul 2012 #78
Did you know that Harry Reid is a Mormon? Tom Rinaldo Jul 2012 #39
A corrupt misogynistic, bigoted, racist religion, what's not to love! Marrah_G Jul 2012 #40
"I have lost much respect for Jews in getting to know Joe Lieberman." Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author JanMichael Jul 2012 #50
Sorry, I self deleted. I give up. I "got" what the poster said, JanMichael Jul 2012 #53
Jew were institutionaly racist and dominionist? NO!! Bad example uponit7771 Jul 2012 #65
"Were". The Democratic party used to be a pro-segregation, racist party. Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #66
An exact parallel unfortunately eridani Jul 2012 #71
Romney worships money get the red out Jul 2012 #52
I never had respect for their religion obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #55
think about Donnie and Marie Enrique Jul 2012 #56
So you are now basing your opinion about an entire religion on the actions of one man? MadHound Jul 2012 #62
I had a teacher who was a Mormon, one of the nicest kindest people Raine Jul 2012 #72
I think of all organized religions as cults... Bigmack Jul 2012 #73
Well Obama believes that Jesus was the Son of God, Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #75
Quite the same _ed_ Jul 2012 #81
"Do as they say, not as they do."--Jesus. Democrats_win Jul 2012 #77

arbusto_baboso

(7,162 posts)
1. As a former mormon.....
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 04:31 PM
Jul 2012

One of the reasons I left that "church" is the rank materialism I saw among members. Most are no better than Mitt. Sure, there are exceptions. But largely, mormons have a shallow sex-centered view of "morality".

There's a reason why Utah is the nation's capital, both for anti-depressant use, and for consumer fraud...

Erose999

(5,624 posts)
2. You had respect for mormons? Maybe its because some of my good friends in high school were ex-commun
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 04:31 PM
Jul 2012

ex-communicated mormons, but I thought they were widely regarded as a cult by pretty much everyone.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
5. sure, I know they are a cult and all that gibberish
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 06:14 PM
Jul 2012

....with the magic underwear etc. But I never thought of them as corrupt people, but rather like I think of pioneer stock who practiced thrift and old values.

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
23. A lot of the rank and file are like that
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:14 AM
Jul 2012

but the church is like any other oversized corporation: the guys at the top are corrupt, ruthless or both, and the regular rules don't apply to them.

Rambis

(7,774 posts)
54. I can't afford another child "just have another kid the government will pay"
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:36 AM
Jul 2012

overheard while the loading gym equipment in Colorado- All the guys loading stuff were Mormons who's wives were living on government assistance of one form or another. They were bragging about it!

obamanut2012

(26,158 posts)
58. Mountain Meadows Massacre
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:56 AM
Jul 2012

Yes, it happened a long ago, but two things: 1. the LDS leadership still says it was all the horrible brutal Indians who did it and 2. the LDS Leadership still has that type of insular, CYA mentality, very much not too thrilled with outsiders. They remind me of Scientologists in that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre


The Mountain Meadows massacre was a series of attacks on the Baker–Fancher emigrant wagon train, at Mountain Meadows in southern Utah. The attacks culminated on September 11, 1857 with the mass slaughter of the emigrant party by the Iron County district of the Utah Territorial Militia and some local Native Americans.

The wagon train—composed almost entirely of families from Arkansas—was bound for California on a route that passed through the Utah Territory during a turbulent period later known as the Utah War. After arriving in Salt Lake City, the Baker–Fancher party made their way south, eventually stopping to rest at Mountain Meadows. While the emigrants were camped at the meadow, nearby militia leaders, including Isaac C. Haight and John D. Lee, made plans to attack the wagon train. The militia, officially called the Nauvoo Legion, was composed of Utah's Mormon settlers (members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or LDS Church). Intending to give the appearance of Native American aggression, their plan was to arm some Southern Paiute Native Americans and persuade them to join with a larger party of their own militiamen—disguised as Native Americans—in an attack.

During the initial assault on the wagon train, the emigrants fought back and a five-day siege ensued. Eventually fear spread among the militia's leaders that some emigrants had caught sight of white men, and had probably discovered who their attackers really were. This resulted in an order by militia commander William H. Dame for the emigrants' annihilation. Running low on water and provisions, the emigrants allowed a party of militiamen to enter their camp, who assured them of their safety and escorted them out of their hasty fortification. After walking a distance from the camp, the militiamen, with the help of auxiliary forces hiding nearby, attacked the emigrants. Intending to leave no witnesses of complicity by Mormons in the attacks, and to prevent reprisals that would further complicate the Utah War, the perpetrators killed all the adults and older children (totaling about 120 men, women, and children). Seventeen children, all younger than seven, were spared. Following the massacre the perpetrators hastily buried the victims, leaving their bodies vulnerable to wild animals and the climate. Local families took in the surviving children, and many of the victims' possessions were auctioned off. Investigations, temporarily interrupted by the American Civil War, resulted in nine indictments during 1874. Of the men indicted, only John D. Lee was tried in a court of law. After two trials in the Utah Territory, Lee was convicted by a jury and executed. Today historians attribute the massacre to a combination of factors including both war hysteria and strident Mormon teachings. Scholars still debate whether senior Mormon leadership, including Brigham Young, directly instigated the massacre or if responsibility lies with the local leaders of southern Utah.

<snip>

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
4. The Osmonds and that Choir did wonders for their reputation...
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 04:34 PM
Jul 2012

I think it's safe to say Mitt has almost singlehandedly washed it all away...

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
15. And that choir isn't even all that good.
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 09:27 PM
Jul 2012

I performed with Regional Honors Choirs in high school that were better, and I mean that in all seriousness.

The Mormon Tabernacle Choir or whatever it's called sounds like a bunch of soloist divas trying to sing as an ensemble.

No thanks.

Mopar151

(10,003 posts)
41. Some of the things the Osmonds have said in th epast few years
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:07 AM
Jul 2012

Aren't complimentary to the Morman culture

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Jayce Cox

(34 posts)
7. Pure anti-mormon bunk!
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 06:55 PM
Jul 2012

Last edited Sun Jul 29, 2012, 08:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Your whole premise is crazy. Do we hold all United Methodist in low regard because of George W. Bush, are all Quakers anti social communist plotters because of Nixon. Romney in no way affects how I practice my Mormon faith. I have a years supply of food stored in my basement not because I'm getting ready for my episode of Hoarders, but because my family has endured times of job loss and were able to survive without seeking help, and at other times have been able to help neighbors (all of whom are not Mormons) during difficult times in their lives. I am a "rank and file" mormon and a democrat. Does Harry Reid being a mormon help to balance out Brother Romney's shortcomings? In this new era of anonymous posting and commenting the dialog has really hit some new lows. Would you say this out loud in mixed company. The apology in advance seems so sincere.
Bless your Heart Grasswire

Jayce Cox
Helena, Montana

Op-Ed http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765592705/It-is-OK-to-disagree-not-dehumanize.html

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
17. no, you are wrong
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:30 AM
Jul 2012

What did I say?

I had a fairly good opinion of Mormons until Romney demonstrated a scurrilous and meanspirited ethics. I asked if his ethics were typical of Mormons.

How is that a "bigoted stereotype"?

wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
22. Because you're calling an entire faith into question based on the actions of one member.
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:08 AM
Jul 2012

On the other hand, believing men (and only men) get their own planets when they die is clearly bonkers. Same with God making coffee and then not wanting us to drink it. Or the really offensive crap about black people or Native Americans.

I have a terrible opinion of Mormonism but I don't judge individual Mormons until I meet them and I don't judge the whole faith based on any given person who says they practice it.

Debate the faith on its tenants and on the actions of the organisation not on its individual practitioners (who may not be representative in any way of the wider community).

wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
64. My 96 year old granny is Catholic.
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:55 PM
Jul 2012

Do the actions of pedophile priests tell you anything at all about what kind of person she is?

Was everyone in David Koresh's cult the same as him?

Of course not. Good, well-intentioned people get sucked into corrupt organisations. The actions of one (or even many or even the leaders) in those organisations don't tell you "everything you need to know about all Mormons/Catholics/Boy Scouts/Southerners/etc." That's the definition of bigotry and prejudice.

"I have lost respect for (all) Mormons because of Romney."
"I used to think Mormons were hardworking and moral (but now I don't because of Romney)."

Fill in any other group for "Mormons" and any other person for "Romney" and tell me those are not bigoted statements.

_ed_

(1,734 posts)
74. Utter nonsense
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 09:02 AM
Jul 2012

I made the point that Romney was a Bishop. Was your granny a bishop?

If Mitt Romney was a Mormon with a position of leadership in 1978, he was an active member of a racist organization. It's not bigotry to point that out. It's also not bigotry to question others' associations.

If your granny puts money in the collection plate, it is being used to pay out billions of dollars to the victims of Catholic child rape. It's not the same as raping kids and covering it up, but her material and emotional support is used to prop up this disgusting organization.

You can't "fill in any other group" because religion is a set of ideas that you believe and an organization that you choose to belong to. You can't do that if you're gay, because being gay is not a choice. Religion is a choice -- a choice that I'll criticize anytime I damn well please.

wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
79. And the point that I made
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 03:11 PM
Jul 2012

was that Romney is the equivalent of the pedophile priests and my grandmother was the equivalent of other Mormons. She goes to church because she's done it her whole life. It's her community. Since her kids moved away, it's the local church that looks in on her and makes sure she's doing OK and gives her a reason to get out of bed most days. I'm sure she does put money in the collection plate and I'm sure some of it goes to pay off child rape victims (just like some of your taxes go toward paying for landmines that cripple children). The church does other things as well and if she chooses to be a member after balancing the good with the bad that's her call.
I'm an atheist and I'm sure as shit not here to defend the Catholic church (or any other church for that matter). Religion is a set of ideas, but it's also wrapped up in culture and ethnicity. There's an even better example down thread. Would it be OK to say "I used to think Jews were smart until I met Joe Liebermen"? Of course not. So why is it fine to say "I used to think Mormons were hardworking until I met Romney"? Any "I used to think x group were y trait until I met z individual" sentence is clearly expressing both a stereotype in the first part and a broad brush in the second.
And like I said in a previous post, criticise religion all you want. I criticise it all the time. But don't criticise individual members of that religion based on behaviour exhibited by other individuals just because they happen to belong to the same group. That's not criticising "choice"; it's displaying prejudice and the assumption of guilt by association.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
76. DING DING DING!
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:09 PM
Jul 2012

It's no more fair to tar rank-and-file Mormons with the Rmoney brush than it is to blame lay Catholics for the sins of the pedophile priests.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
30. You're judging a group based on the activities of one
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:36 AM
Jul 2012

How is that better than doing so to any other group?

There are men who commit violent crimes, so my opinion of men is lower. Isn't that the same?

Caribou Barbie is an idiot, so I think a lot less of Alaska.

JanMichael

(24,897 posts)
49. I'm not. Wife had to do a research project for a degree
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:26 AM
Jul 2012

on the church. We learned almost too much; we are basing our dislike of the institution on the church itself. The self indulgent male hierarchy is just icing on that ugly cupcake.

_ed_

(1,734 posts)
80. You can't choose your gender
Sat Jul 21, 2012, 07:56 AM
Jul 2012

You can choose to be a Mormon or not. And "Alaska" is a place, not something you join and tithe to.

uponit7771

(90,367 posts)
34. Mormons don't have a history of racism throught the organization? Like the GOP and it's "southern
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:52 AM
Jul 2012

....Strategy" why shouldn't it be rational that at the least the de facto racism throughout the organizations (cause it was forced to change it's racial edicts and didn't do it by will of doctrine) is coming through via rMoney?

Thx for the conversation.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
42. Mormon culture certainly does foster certain traits
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:12 AM
Jul 2012

that are commonly found in it's members.

If Romney was so out of the norm and non representative of their overall value system, why are they, the rank and file almost to a man, so hot and heavy after Romney for President?

JanMichael

(24,897 posts)
48. Grasswire doesn't owe you an apology for a thing
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:22 AM
Jul 2012

Your church has made it so far by maintaining tight control at the top...much like the Catholic church, but only for about 170 years or so. The other posters were correct in that Donny and Marie, and the proximity to ski areas made the LDS seem "mainstream," and even wholesome.

Other than the rank and file helping their neighbors, building gyms in the churches, etc...there is not much more to recommend that anyone join. It is patriarchal, and still maintains the vestiges of racism that it was founded upon. I have been told that many of the native Americans in Utah and surrounding states cannot stand the Mormon church after Joseph Smith used them as a prop in his insane prophecies. I do not know if that is true or not--- but, it does have the ring of possible truth.

Furthermore, you don't see too many Methodists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians or whatever MAINSTREAM denomination you would like to pick posting on several large forums about "escaping." Literally.....escaping. Many people CHOOSE to leave their church...and many people have emotional scars from their church, but few have to "escape."

You sound like a decent person; I am not trying to jump down your throat completely, but in your first couple of posts, asking for an apology for something MANY people have been thinking is ludicrous. I have very little respect for your church, and zero for the Book of Mormon.

As far as the money goes, I would say this article sums it up:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money

soccer1

(343 posts)
8. Romney doesn't represent all Mormons...
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 07:02 PM
Jul 2012

All churches have members with all types of character issues for better or for worse.......

scorpiogirl

(717 posts)
9. According to a neighbor of mine who grew up in SLC
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 07:18 PM
Jul 2012

Mormons consider good morals doing things such as wearing the undergarment, not smoking, drinking, etc. She assures me it has nothing to with anything the rest of us, at least here, would consider moral or just. Something to consider anyway.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
10. Consider that Joseph Smith was a convicted con-artist...
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 07:27 PM
Jul 2012

or as the Mormons call him, "prophet" or "fortune-seeker"...

He started the religion by telling everyone that he had a conversation with an angel named Moroni, when nooooooobody else was watching, and of course Moroni told him that he was destined to be a great leader and prophet. Using information from Moroni, he "found" a big stack of golden plates, which he allowed nooooobody else to look at, and translated them by looking at them through magic gems, that again, nooooooobody else saw, and used these supposed golden plates and magic gems to bring the world the Book of Mormon.

Yeah, and I've got beachfront property in the Utah desert I'd like to sell you...

 

Iggy

(1,418 posts)
28. Right, the WHOLE thing is a huge sham
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:56 AM
Jul 2012

SCAM... see my post downstream re: the Mormon business empire

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
44. Oh...you must be talking about the 4th version of the First Vision....
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:14 AM
Jul 2012

There were several documented versions...not sure why he finally picked this one?

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
11. Totally agree.
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 07:30 PM
Jul 2012

If the Romney is an example of what being a Mormon is then they have nothing to offer.

REP

(21,691 posts)
12. No problem dissing Rmoney or any church hierarchy but to brush all adherents isn't right
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 08:22 PM
Jul 2012

I'm loud and proud about what I think of the RCC (not much) yet I know that the vast majority individuals who are Catholic are decent people. The LDS/RLDS Churches have some unusual beliefs, but not any more unusual than belief in literal transubstantiation or a number of mainstream religious beliefs. The official Church hierarchy supports some terrible things (both RCC and LDS here), and condemning that hierarchy/officials is appropriate.

I've known many LDS and RLDS members who are very liberal, and don't find that at odds with their religion. I have my own colorful opinions about Smith, his Church, etc but an unwavering stand on letting people believe any damn fool thing they want (as long as they don't force it on others). Any group is made up of very good people, some very bad people, and a lot somewhere inbetween. Rmoney falls into the "very bad" camp.

atreides1

(16,094 posts)
57. I disagree
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:52 AM
Jul 2012

If the vast majority were "decent" people...then they would be trying to change things. Not happening!

You cannot be a decent person and do nothing, history has shown us that. Truly decent people stand up and fight

As long as the hierarchy is reaping in the tithes, then those "decent" people are responsible for the terrible things being done...I believe it's called aiding and abetting!



 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
13. As an atheist I've always been pretty disrespectful of believers. rMoney takes the hypocrisy
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 08:28 PM
Jul 2012

to a new level however. Religious belief requires such a suspension of logic in order to give oneself over to some pretty outlandish superstitions, practices, and stories. I'm definitely one of those who mocks, especially religious hypocrites.

So the Rmoney's Mormon faith doesn't necessarily jump out at me as singularly special on the scale of cultishness, weirdness or bizarro behavior.

What DOES ring my bells however about Mormonism is the "Lying for the Lord" bit (http://www.mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord) which means Mittsters can realistically lie about everything as long as he can justify it. Since Mitt is arguably the leading Mormon personality in the US at the moment, presumably he can lie about just about anything to keep up appearances and pretensions.

That goes beyond simple hypocrisy and into fraud.

Honestly, I believe Mitt has utilized the "Lying for the Lord" principle all his life. He's used it to be greedy (its to tithe more to the temple!), he's used it to leverage power (reflects on Mormons in general), he's used it for fraud (Cayman Islands tax evasions of course!) - virtually anything can be rationalized away as being done for the good of the church.

The Mormon principle of lying as a religious precept is what's alarming, and I believe Mitt takes it to a whole new level. THAT reflects badly on Mormons in general.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
24. How convenient for him
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:27 AM
Jul 2012

His religion not only allows him to lie but evidently it's OK to make a profit by hurting people in the process by taking away their jobs so he can be rich and President. No wonder he's so religious.

I suspect though, that Romney's Mormonism is not every Mormon's Mormonism. Just like all other religions. For example, lots of Christians think that if they're successful and rich it means God favors them, so how they get that way is therefore OK since God allowed them to make their wealth by taking jobs or whatever away from others. It's pure logic. If God didn't want them to use other people to get rich then God wouldn't allow it. See?

sadbear

(4,340 posts)
16. My brother married into the LDSism.
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 09:27 PM
Jul 2012

And my experience with his VERY LARGE in-law family has me convinced that material accumulation is a very important part of their faith. Remember, the church gets 10% of ALL their income, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, if they are to be good-standing members. And members not in good standing are often shunned.

uponit7771

(90,367 posts)
37. I could care less, the de facto organizational racism will come through him also and there's little
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:56 AM
Jul 2012

...reason that a person of color should expect more.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
46. Huntsman, by his own admission, isn't particularly active in that church
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:16 AM
Jul 2012

...would be one explanation for their very different perspectives on how to treat human beings.

RFKHumphreyObama

(15,164 posts)
19. There are good and bad people in every faith
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:49 AM
Jul 2012

Morris Udall, one of the most liberal congressmen around a few decades ago, was a Mormon. Jon Huntsman, one of the few moderate-to-liberal Republicans around who has publicly called out the Republicans on their extremism and is boycotting the GOP Convention because of it and who has done a lot of good work in political and public life, is a Mormon. There are more than a few rank-and-file Mormons who will be voting for President Obama this time around

If we are to judge all religions and non-religions by the actions of a few of their public figures, it really doesn't leave us with anywhere to go

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
82. Agreed with you on that.
Tue Jul 24, 2012, 02:47 PM
Jul 2012

If we can't stop quarreling over religious differences like that, then how can we get things done?

limpyhobbler

(8,244 posts)
20. I used to hang out with some Mormon kids in high school and they were very normal.
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 03:04 AM
Jul 2012

They liked to smoke weed and drink beers like everyone else. I have also known some uptight racist Mormons.

I don't think you can judge all Mormons or stereotype them in any way. It's no dumber than any other religion.

There is enough legit stuff to attack Romney about without resorting to religion.

eShirl

(18,505 posts)
21. Well, consider that Tricky Dick Nixon was a Quaker...
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 06:52 AM
Jul 2012

does knowing that tarnish your opinion of Quakers?

 

Iggy

(1,418 posts)
27. No.. what it means
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:55 AM
Jul 2012

is Tricky Dick was a very poor example of a Quaker.

the Quakers are passivists... Nixon authorized our Air Force to bomb the hell out of
Cambodia... killing untold number of innocent people

eridani

(51,907 posts)
25. The pro-marriage equality Mormon contingent in the Seattle LGBT Pride March
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:37 AM
Jul 2012

--this year was large, and very well received.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
51. Wow, that's really good to hear.
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:31 AM
Jul 2012


I am not one to judge an entire faith, or any other group by the actions of one of them. It's just not right.
 

Iggy

(1,418 posts)
26. Wait, Have you read the recent Bloomberg
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:48 AM
Jul 2012

Biz Week article on the Mormon business empire? if not, everyone needs to read this.

They just built a $2 Billion dollar megamall across from the main "church" in SLC, yes, that's
Billion with a "B".

there's something very wrong here in terms of this "church" being tax exempt.

Reading the article, one can surmise there's a definite culture of secrecy in the "church", and I
think it's fair to assume that is partly where Rmoney is getting his desire for secrecy regarding
just what he is up to financially.

there's NO WAY I want this business cult, sorry that's the way I see it-- running our nation.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money#r=read

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
61. Like Bill Maher put it a few weeks ago...
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 11:28 AM
Jul 2012

Real charities don't have castles!



Not bad for paying zero taxes!

Jayce Cox

(34 posts)
67. This is a Temple
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:25 PM
Jul 2012

Wow you got us! We have big churches, like the Manti, Utah Temple pictured above. Shall I post a picture of the Cathederal that dominates my home town.

OregonBlue

(7,755 posts)
29. Having done business with Mormons it seems to me that they have two sets of standards.
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:26 AM
Jul 2012

One for other Mormons and one for the rest of us. They have no qualms about screwing anybody as long as that person is not a Mormon. But then, I have a prejudice against a cult that believes the Garden of Eden is in Missouri. Sorry.

sadbear

(4,340 posts)
31. Hahaha!
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:43 AM
Jul 2012

My brother married into it, and he and his LDS wife name one of their daughters Missouri, and (wait for it) the other one Eden. I made that connection just now after reading your post.

uponit7771

(90,367 posts)
36. They are domionist at the very top of the ladder, everyone else is shit to them and they could
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:55 AM
Jul 2012

...care less about who the step on...you're lower than they and the means meet the ends

Hippo_Tron

(25,453 posts)
69. No less ridiculous than believing the Garden of Eden is (was) anywhere else
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:13 PM
Jul 2012

The idea that supernatural things happened thousands of years ago but magically they don't today, is no less ridiculous than the idea that supernatural things happened hundreds of years ago but magically they don't today.

dembotoz

(16,864 posts)
32. i feel rmoney is a sociopath first and perhaps a morman second or third
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:44 AM
Jul 2012

being a sociopath taints any other label

uponit7771

(90,367 posts)
35. The defacto racism from the organization is coming through via rMoney. the "foreign" stick is
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:53 AM
Jul 2012

...aka for the n word.

The mormons have a history of de facto racism through the organization

flamingdem

(39,332 posts)
38. People confuse the Mormons with the Amish
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:00 AM
Jul 2012

or the Quakers... I think Mitt has changed that, and as you say he has reduced the respect for the Mormon church and made it clear that $ acquisition is their number one value.

I'm surprised the wingnut Christian religious crowd isn't more negative towards him.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,917 posts)
39. Did you know that Harry Reid is a Mormon?
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:02 AM
Jul 2012

He was raised agnostic and become a Morrmon in college. Here is a quote of him talking about his faith in regards to politics (source wikipedia where footnotes are provided):

"In a 2001 interview he said, "I think it is much easier to be a good member of the Church and a Democrat than a good member of the Church and a Republican." He went on to say that the Democrats' emphasis on helping others, as opposed to what he considers Republican dogma to the contrary, is the reason he's a Democrat.[61] He delivered a speech at Brigham Young University to about 20,000 students on October 9, 2007, in which he expressed his opinion that Democratic values mirror Mormon values.[62][63] Several Republican Mormons in Utah have contested his faith because of his politics, such as his statements that the church's backing of California's Proposition 8 wasted resources.[64]"

Harry has a long and good record on civil rights and on womens equality. I think he fits the first sentance of your OP fairly well.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
40. A corrupt misogynistic, bigoted, racist religion, what's not to love!
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:02 AM
Jul 2012

They remind me a lot of the Catholic church except their palace is in Utah and isn't quite so grand.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
47. "I have lost much respect for Jews in getting to know Joe Lieberman."
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:21 AM
Jul 2012

Would that be an acceptable statement? You don't see any problem at all with your subject line?

Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #47)

JanMichael

(24,897 posts)
53. Sorry, I self deleted. I give up. I "got" what the poster said,
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:35 AM
Jul 2012

but, others here are knocking themselves out to be "nice" when it's obvious that the OP referred to the institution as a whole. As in "Mormons."

Even more interesting are the trolls....really? Seriously? Take a freaking good look at the responses and tell me if you don't see a couple of fascinating responses.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
71. An exact parallel unfortunately
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:44 AM
Jul 2012

There are all kinds of progressive people who grew up in reactionary religious traditions. Some get sick of if and quit; others don't want to give up the connection with their roots and decide to fight the good fight from inside. I'm not going to sit in judgement on either choice.

obamanut2012

(26,158 posts)
55. I never had respect for their religion
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:40 AM
Jul 2012

It is homophobic, misogynistic, quite anti science, extreme racism was public policy and doctrine until recently, etc. If you live in Utah, forget about getting anywhere professionally if you aren't LDS, or even having too many friends.

I know other religions and denominations have this, too, aInd I have no respect for them, either, as institutions. I am not referring to individuals.

Donny and Marie were terrific PR for them. I mean that.

 

MadHound

(34,179 posts)
62. So you are now basing your opinion about an entire religion on the actions of one man?
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 11:36 AM
Jul 2012

Wow, that's pretty bigoted of you. Do you base your opinion of a upon one man? Do you base your opinion of Christianity upon one person?

So why are you doing it with Romney and Mormons?

Raine

(30,541 posts)
72. I had a teacher who was a Mormon, one of the nicest kindest people
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 03:40 AM
Jul 2012

I've ever met, she wasn't anything like Rmoney

 

Bigmack

(8,020 posts)
73. I think of all organized religions as cults...
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 03:45 AM
Jul 2012

.. with some pretty weird beliefs. Virgin births, transubstantiation, e-meters, mikvahs, kaparot, veils..all like that.

I just ask my believer friends if they want to vote for somebody who wears magic underwear, believes that Satan and Jesus are brothers, and that it's OK to lie..for the Lord, of course.



Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
75. Well Obama believes that Jesus was the Son of God,
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 01:59 PM
Jul 2012

turned water into wine, and rose from the dead after three days.

Is that really more believable than Mormonism?

_ed_

(1,734 posts)
81. Quite the same
Sat Jul 21, 2012, 07:58 AM
Jul 2012

All are irrational nonsense. However, Christianity has the benefit of age. We know Mormonism was invented by a convicted fraud named Joseph Smith. There are court records of his fraud convictions.

Democrats_win

(6,539 posts)
77. "Do as they say, not as they do."--Jesus.
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 02:09 PM
Jul 2012

All religions disappoint me. They are not even close to being what they should be, acting like they should act. I guess that, for people, Jesus' words have to be the final say on this. It's horrifying to realize that people are still dying in the name of these so-called religions. Nevertheless, Revelations does suggest that the sins of religion, when stacked one on top of another, have reached as high as heaven. This means God has seen their sins and God will have the final say in the end.

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