Scott Walker tweet: If Noah had help from gov't, ark might never have been built

[Bolo Boffin]

If I'm lying, I'm dying:

https://twitter.com/ScottKWalker/status/225784662612647936

Imagine if Noah had needed help from the government to build the ark. It might have never been built.

I just... My mind is officially boggled for the evening.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. If Walker had been in charge of building it,

he would have called the Koch brothers for help.

[cthulu2016]

2. If Scott was a Democrat, the lead on Fox and Friends tomorrow would be...

"Walker said yesterday that Noah's ark might never have been built."

[Bolo Boffin]

4. Exactly. Scott Walker is the head of government in his state.

"Walker said yesterday that as governor, he would have stopped Noah from building the ark!"

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. Like the Internet, the Interstate highway system, and the fucking rocket that took folks to the moon

Do these idiots even know that they don't make a lick of sense?

I mean, truly.

[mazzarro]

21. Thank you

I was about to ask the same question. These idiots pretend not acknowledge the myriad things that have come to past because of government sponsorship. Their stupid hatred of government amazes with its lack supporting thought or idea.

[arely staircase]

117. you really believe that? now who is being naive?

just kidding.

[kentuck]

5. Unfortunately...

It would have been like Hurricane Katrina.

[MrSlayer]

6. Imagine if there was a sane republican anywhere.

Imagine if Jack needed help from the government to plant the magic beans. He'd probably never get the golden goose.

These people are dangerous,

[hay rick]

7. If government can't do anything right, why does Walker want to run it?

The elite-liberal-gubmint-globalwarmingscamming National Weather Service says it isn't going to rain for 40 days and 40 nights- so you just know it is.

Is Walker building a damn ark or isn't he?

[zinnisking]

12. Republicans say government doesn't work. Then they get elected and prove it.

That's what Al Franken used to say.

[Bolo Boffin]

20. I always think of Walter Sobchik beating that muscle car with a tire iron

"Do you see what happens, Donnie? Do you see what happens when you let Republicans into power?"

[malaise]

24. He doesn't want to run it

He wants to loot it

[one_voice]

8. Katrina part deux...

on a much larger scale. Fuckin' idiots...

***if it actually rained for 40 days and 40 nights.

[targetpractice]

9. If the government had been involved...

...there would probably be much better documentation about the project available today.

[rug]

10. And Walker would have charged admission.

[ChazII]

11. Google is indeed our friend

Last edited Thu Jul 19, 2012, 12:55 AM - Edit history (1)

http://governmentgonewild.org/noahandtheark



ETA:

“Noah,” he shouted…“Where is the Ark?”

“Lord, please forgive me,” cried Noah. “I did my best, but there were big problems: First, I had to get a permit for construction, and your plans did not meet the building codes. I had to hire an engineering firm to redraw the plans”.

“Then I got into a fight with the Fire Marshall and OSHA over whether or not the Ark needed a sprinkler system and approved floatation devices. Then, my neighbor objected, claiming I was violating zoning ordinances by building the Ark in my front yard, so I had to get a variance from the local planning commission. Then, I had problems getting enough wood for the Ark because there was a ban on cutting trees to protect the Spotted Owl…but, I finally convinced the U. S. Forest Service that I really needed the wood to save the owls. However, the Fish and Wildlife Service won’t let me catch any owls, so, no owls.”

This article is what I believe he was referring to. It has made the rounds since Pres. Clinton was in the WH.

[kwolf68]

13. Battleships, Carriers, Destroyers?

Who built all those ships in WW2?

[Angry Dragon]

14. Scott Walker has no idea he is part of the government

what a very lost person

[SnohoDem]

15. Since it was never built anyway,

I can't see what difference gov't help would make.

[Roland99]

46. +infinity!

[blm]

16. If Walker hadn't had help from federal government his budget wouldn't have been balanced

because he took the money from the federal settlement on mortgage fraud that was supposed to go to people in his state who were defrauded and he applied it to his budget.

[Marr]

17. I've got bad news. It wasn't built.

But for those who happen to believe that story, I've always wondered-- what happened to all the people who already had boats?

[Quixote1818]

18. Government took us to the fucking moon

As for the Ark, it's a fucking parable that was probably never meant to be taken seriously dumb ass!

[smirkymonkey]

28. +1000

[ncgrits]

41. Ding ding ding! We have a winner! nt

[Poll_Blind]

19. And if Walker was Noah, it'd have no animals on it: "No organizing!" nt

PB

[standingtall]

22. I believe the Ark was built.

Last edited Thu Jul 19, 2012, 04:20 AM - Edit history (2)

And until someone can prove it wasn't built. Ill continue to believe that it was. Just like I believe Jesus Christ was god manifested in the flesh, and was crucified, and resurrected on the 3rd day. When someone can prove that never happened Ill become an atheist that minute. Good luck with that though they been trying for almost 2000 years, and ain't done it yet. As for all the other people who already had boats. Pretty simple they died.Their boats weren't up to it. That's why god told Noah to build the Ark, because he was going to destroy the world with a great flood because it became a violent bloody land. Only Noah's family of eight survived.

[SnohoDem]

25. And if you can PROVE the ark was built,

and that Jesus Christ was God manifested in the flesh, and was crucified, and resurrected on the 3rd day, I'll become a Christian. How's that for a deal?

You've placed a very difficult condition on the argument - for me or anyone else to prove a negative. Google "Russel's teapot".

I'll put a much easier condition on the argument - use science to prove your assertion.

Good luck with that, though. They've been trying for almost 2000 years and ain't done it yet. Science gets better, religion doesn't. It still requires faith rather than evidence. Use real science, not 'creation science', which is laughed at by 95% of the globe. If "god" gave us these brains, he gave them to us to use for a reason, not to accept ancient myths, but to look and explore. If "god" gave us free will, he did it so we could think for ourselves, not accept ancient myths as absolute truth.

And I'm not even an atheist...

It was nice that you defended your faith, but until you can present proof that what your religion has asserted happened thousands of years ago did in fact actually happen, your assertions have as much as, or even less value than my assertions that they did not happen. There actually is some evidence of a deluge. It almost certainly happened at the end of the last ice age, when humans had language, but not too much writing. Here's a really cool book about it: http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/books/eden_in_the_east.php I haven't read it for several years.

I live in Southeast Asia so I found this really interesting. It's not proven, but it's at least a little scientific. It's not a blind assertion that 'this is what happened, now disprove it'. It makes a lot more sense than the assertion that eight families repopulated the earth in all its human diversity in 5 - 6000 years - statisticians will make hash of that. Probably lots of people got killed in the flood, and those who lived on 'higher ground' or could get away from the water in time, lived. Myths about this enormous catastrophe survived and were incorporated into the local mythology of various regions. It's way more believable and and understandable than 'God, who loves us so much, got pissed off and killed almost everybody'. That does not make 'Eden in the East' right. It makes it a book that presents a theory and argues passionately for that theory. It's just a book, you know, like the bible. There's lots of others.

Evidence of the deluge is not evidence that the deluge was caused by an angry god. Don't you even look at your own religion? Don't you read the bible? God, who's supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, all loving and such, acts like a jerk to everyone but the Jews in the Old Testament. He even dumps on the Jews if they don't behave. Then suddenly, John 3:16. Except that, if we don't believe that, we'll be cast into a lake of eternal fire. Huh? We don't really have to know the mind of god to know that just doesn't make sense. God supposedly made us in his image. Fine. If my child does something wrong, I _might_ swat him on the butt, send him to bed with no supper, call a time out, give him a stern talking to, or whatever. I've never hit a child - kids do dumb stuff and they're obnoxious and you try to guide them to grow up to be good adults - I've never hit or even spoken sharply to a dog unless it tried to bite me - that kind of stuff is a no-brainer - we don't use a superior position to hurt others, though we may occasionally have to discipline them. According to your religion, if I'm created in the image of god, I would stake out my child or dog on an anthill in the hot sun and torture it to death because it didn't do what I wanted it to do. Unfortunately, I can't live up to God's perfection and can't torture someone or something after death.

There are lots of beautiful ideas in the bible. Number one for me would be the beatitudes, but you write as a fundamentalist, one who accepts the bible as the literal word of god. I won't even ask which translation. If this is your god's record of himself, I'll pass on belief.


By the way, do you think if the government helped build the ark it would have been:

a) Built faster, because the gov't had lots more resources than Noah.
b) Oh, no way, the gov't never does anything right, regardless of loads of evidence to the contrary.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist

a·the·ist? ?[ey-thee-ist]
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

I don't deny that, only the existence of your absurd god.

[DCKit]

29. Not eight families, eight people. We are all the children of incest.

Talk about original sin!

[SnohoDem]

132. Sorry!

It's been >35 years since I read the bible and I misread StandingTall's post!

[2on2u]

30. And please, don't forget Norway

[ncgrits]

44. Thank you for this!

A thought-filled response. I hope the original poster reads it with as much thought as with which it was written.

[standingtall]

48. You said alot

Let me start off by clarifying I am not anti science, and certainly not anti-government.If Noah were acting completely alone, and not working on behalf of god of course he could've built faster with the help of government. However I don't believe science gets better, and religion does not. What's science today may not be science 20 years from. When I was in school they use to teach dinosaurs evolved from reptiles. Now it is believed they evolved from birds. I don't believe to be pro religion you must be anti-science. It's simple my position all knowledge starts and ends with god. Science comes from god as far as concerned, he made us in his own image, and that's why we have the ability to use science.

My god is a jealous, and sometimes an angry god, but he is also a just and righteous god. After the flood god made an everlasting covenant with Noah, and his seed that he would never again destroy the world in a flood. Also the idea that god was a jerk to everyone in the Old Testament who was not a jew is simply not true. After all we are talking about Noah. Who was not a jew. Jews did not exist during the time of Noah. Jacob who's name was changed to Israel is the father of the jews. Jews were gods chosen people, but not gods only people. They were chosen to be a nation of priest a light of the world to the gentile. So of course he was extra harsh on them when they did not obey him. Also read 2 kings chapter 5. The story of Elisha who was not a jew. Who god cured from leprosy, and tell me god was a jerk to him. There are more examples as well. Like the book of Jonah which makes it clear that my god is in fact a universal god Do I read my bible? Yes. Have I looked my god?Yes. To me the testimony of the bible that Jesus Christ was crucified, and resurrected on the 3rd day is with report in the bible that over 500 people witnessed it is prove to me. Also the fact that the disciples who walked with Christ continued to to teach the gospel up until the time of their deaths even though they knew they would most likely meet a brutal end. Is also prove to me. I would rather bet my soul on the apostles being right. Then modern theory that Jesus Christ never existed, or that he was not god manifested.

In closing there is a saying that 'A good boss would never ask you to do something they wouldn't do themselves. That's why Jesus said 'I am the good shepherd I lay done with my flock." As god he did not have to chose to be crucified, but he did that so you could be forgiven for your sins. And then he was resurrected to prove to you who he said he was. That's the true beauty of my god.

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. Do you mind if I ask how old you are? n/t

[standingtall]

110. 37

[Bertha Venation]

62. I admit I cherry-picked this, standingtall:

"he is also a just and righteous god"

I was born again when I was six, baptized at age nine, and attended Los Angeles Baptist College (now The Master's College). I was a fundamentalist Christian until about the age of 23, when my world fell apart. It wasn't until then -- I was a late bloomer -- that I began to question my beliefs.

I'm now 49, and I waver between agnosticism and atheism.

My first instinct upon reading this comment of yours was to say BULLSHIT. But it's only bullshit if there is a god. If the god of the bible exists, then I say to you, this is bullshit. If the bible is truly the inspired word of your god, your god is fucked up. To have a group of boys torn apart by wild animals for taunting a bald man? That's just? That's righteous? BULLSHIT! And that's just one of myriad examples of why your god, if he exists, is fucked up.

But for my second reaction, the atheism kicked in. Why should I care?

Believe what you want. But take caution when trying to recruit people. You might be -- just as justly and righteously as the boys being mauled -- kicked in the teeth.

[morningfog]

73. Do you believe "your god" destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah?

And do you believe the reason he destroyed it to be because of men sleeping with men?

[standingtall]

82. Yes I believe god destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah

However I do not believe it was because of men sleeping with men. 'I believe this was the reason. Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom,Pride,Fulness of breed, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and the needy.' This is one of the very few verses that mentions any real specifics of the reason why those cities were destroyed. The assumption it was because of homosexuality comes from right wing so called evangelist preachers. Who do not strengthen the hand of the poor or needy in fact they weaken it.

[auburngrad82]

89. I think you have your knowledge of evolution backwards

I believe the current theory is that birds evolved from dinosaurs, not the other way around. Dinosaurs evolved from even older species of reptiles. Some current reptiles, such as crocodiles, evolved from the same ancient reptiles that the dinosaurs evolved from, so they're kind of cousins to dinosaurs.

Of course it's all a theory. Like gravity and the earth being round.

[muriel_volestrangler]

97. If you're not anti-science, consider the science of a flood that drowns the world:

It would leave obvious geological features. Nothing like that has been found. We have continuous ice core records that show each year, going back far before the supposed date.

We have found trees that were alive from 4,800 years ago until the 20th century - from before the supposed date of the flood.

It would completely mix saltwater and freshwater. Whatever the salinity that this had, it would either kill the freshwater or saltwater creatures - osmosis makes it impossible for nearly all creatures to live in both.

Plants would mostly have been wiped out by a worldwide flood.

We have written evidence of at least 2 separate languages (in Egypt and Mesopotamia) from before the supposed date of the flood, and the writing systems both survived to after that date. This fits neither with only one family surviving the whole event, nor with the biblical story of the tower of Babel.

Others have pointed out the impossibility of collecting pairs (or more) of all species around the world.

The genetic variation in the human race cannot be produced in the time after the flood (and that's ignoring the pictorial evidence that it also existed before the supposed flood date).

The species that only came from one pair would be hopelessly inbred.

Archaeological evidence from all over the world shows continuous inhabitation through the supposed date of the flood.

And so on. We could go on for hundreds of pages about the scientific evidence against any worldwide flood anything like the one in Genesis.

[standingtall]

119. Just because evidence hasn't been found

Doesn't mean evidence doesn't exist. The Laotian Rock Rat who thought to be extinct for 11 million years.The point is sometimes it takes us a while to uncover evidence. I really don't know what you mean by the suppose date of the flood. There is no date of the flood given in the bible. I don't believe in the young earth age. Those who believe in that ad up all the generations in chronicles to determine the age of the earth. I don't believe that's a record of everyone that ever existed, but one of significant people. Making the earth much much older. And also throwing off the supposed date of the flood you are referring to. I said I wasn't anti science, but I didn't claim to be some kind of brilliant scientist either. Isaac Newton was believed in the bible, and I doubt anyone would call him anti science.

[muriel_volestrangler]

131. But I mentioned evidence against it

and why reject the years and "X son of Y" sections of the bible, while believing the scientifically impossible bits?

There's much more evidence that a global flood is impossible (eg where does all the water come from, and go to?), and no evidence that it happened - just a folk tale.

Face it, you have to be anti-science to believe in a global flood and story of species going down to just pairs, sevens or eight people and surviving in a boat. You have to suspend all belief in normal physics, biology and chemistry for the entire story. It really is on a level with Santa Claus.

[EOTE]

109. So your god only believe in world-wide genocide as a one time thing?

One is the magic number in terms of world-wide genocide? Any less would be a slap on the wrist and any more would just be cruel? It's nice to know that your god is so merciful as to limit the number of times he kills millions of people just because he can.

[rexcat]

133. Your understanding of science and evolution...

are lacking.

What's science today may not be science 20 years from. When I was in school they use to teach dinosaurs evolved from reptiles. Now it is believed they evolved from birds.

Science builds upon itself and is continuly improving itself. In that respect it is self-correcting. Dinosaurs did not evolve from birds. It is the other way around!

As far as god goes one can not prove a negative. There is no evidence of most of what was written in the old or new testments of the christian holy book. As far as Jesus goes all of the books were written at least 80-100 years after his death, if he, as described in the christian holy book actually was a real person.

on edit: You are entitled to you beliefs and welcome to DU. As an atheist we will not see eye to eye when it comes to religion but maybe there is common ground on the political side.

[Xyzse]

96. Enuma Elish - Gilgamesh and Utnapishtm

In the very very old tablets that mention the tale of Gilgamesh, which would have been stories passed through generations, it also involves a tale of a Flood, where Utnapishtm was an immortal who survived the deluge.

So it is believable that there have been crazy floods back then.
They believed in harlot like gods and so forth too.

However, noting that not all humans were proginated by said man, it is simple to assume that the flood is nowhere near as widespread as they think.

Heck, for a long while they thought that the Earth was flat and if their area got wiped, to them, it must mean that the whole world being affected.

Besides, if one actually figures out the size of the Ark, the Ark is small, smaller than many boats we have nowadays:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah's_Ark
[img][/img]

People can debate which one was the earlier story, I'd just say that stories are very limited in detail. Also, who could say that they are not two different people found in two different times.
---

Please note, that the Ark was not built by just Noah, but also by other people who were willing to help him for money or whatever else.

For all I know, it may have been part of the existing government that felt sorry for the guy and had the villagers help him out rather than suffer ridicule and disruptions.

[mr blur]

124. ^^This^^ nt

[Le Taz Hot]

26. I'm surprised I have to state the obvious here

but you can't prove a negative.

[KansDem]

57. Wasn't that the problem with W's assertion...

...that if Saddam didn't have WMDs, he needed to prove it?

Mr. "I was famous and powerful" wasn't too bright in the logic department...

[Capt. Obvious]

33. Can you prove there's no Santa Clause?

Yeah, didn't think so.

[standingtall]

55. False equivalency

If you ever believed in Santa as a kid? And your parents confessed to you they were the ones eating the milk and cookies. If you consider that prove enough then yes. If not then I guess I can't.

[EOTE]

123. My parents confessed to me that it was actually them dying for my sins.

That's when I stopped believing in Jesus. I guess your parents were never able to break it to you. Many kids parents WILL tell their children the truth about organized religions when they get older. Other parents are so invested in the stories that they're never able to do so. But just because a myth persists from one generation to another, that doesn't mean that it's not a myth.

[Warren Stupidity]

37. People making extraordinary claims need to provide proof. Lots of proof.

In science, the burden of proof falls upon the claimant; and the more extraordinary a claim, the heavier is the burden of proof demanded. The true skeptic takes an agnostic position, one that says the claim is not proved rather than disproved. He asserts that the claimant has not borne the burden of proof and that science must continue to build its cognitive map of reality without incorporating the extraordinary claim as a new "fact." Since the true skeptic does not assert a claim, he has no burden to prove anything. He just goes on using the established theories of "conventional science" as usual. But if a critic asserts that there is evidence for disproof, that he has a negative hypothesis—saying, for instance, that a seeming psi result was actually due to an artifact—he is making a claim and therefore also has to bear a burden of proof.

— Marcello Truzzi, On Pseudo-Skepticism, Zetetic Scholar, 12/13, pp3-4, 1987

[Bolo Boffin]

39. What about Utnapishtim's ark?

Why couldn't that be the ark that was built and not Noah's?

[Bandit]

45. you forgot your sarcasm thingy

or was it you are just a product of incestuous relations so your brain just doesn't quite work right? If the only people left on earth were Noah and his eight family members there had to be a ton of incest going on..You do know why incest is illegal don't you?

[standingtall]

63. A question was ask. I answered it.

You don't agree with my position. Insult my intelligence. Classic! Yes I know why incest is illegal. As for the time of Noah do I believe there was incest? Yes. It was necessary for the survival of the human race. Much like we do with endangered species as we breed them in captivity. With several generations some of the deformities begin to get washed away. Do I believe incest is a sin? Yes.However it wasn't during the time of Noah. Insist isn't mentioned as a sin until the time of Moses in the bible. Do I believe is should be illegal yes. I been reading this board long before I ever made my first post. And many times when there is even a semi religious topic. Often someone has to chime in with some snarky comment directed towards people of faith.

Here is an idea maybe you would be better suited to take that type of discussion to the likes of Mike Huckabee, Sarah Palin, Terry Jones etc. Instead of picking fights with people like me.

[Bandit]

75. I'm sorry you feel I insulted you or your intelligence

It is how I feel every time a "person of faith" trys to preach to me about their beliefs. You have faith in story book tails and I have faith in science. When science through rigorous testing and trials tells me their conclusions lead to Noah and his Ark having existed in the past I will give it some credence. Otherwise Hobbits and Orcs have as much basis in reality as Noah and his (all species of animals on the earth) fitting in any single boat/ark or whatever and living together for over forty days and then managing to end up spread out on every continent no matter how deep the oceans..

[Occulus]

78. Biology doesn't agree, either.

The level of incest required by the Noah myth would have resulted in human extinction. This is a basic fact of human biology.

The story as told in the christian bible is biologically impossible.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

114. That level of incest does explain the intellectual capacity of Scott Walker, though.

[Bertha Venation]

84. Disgusting.

"do I believe there was incest? Yes. It was necessary for the survival of the human race"

Like I said. Your god is fucked up.

[lumberjack_jeff]

49. Who was sent to collect a Galapagos tortoise?

Did he pick up 34 (2x17 species) penguins, a Kiwi and a polar bear on the way home?

Faith is great. It makes ignorance comfortable.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

116. And where did he get the howler monkeys, jaguars, giant anteaters,

pangolins, ocelots, capybaras and anacondas? Not a lot of those critters hanging around the Fertile Crescent in Noah's day.

[hifiguy]

118. Not to mention the platypus, emu,

koala and kangaroo, who were about as far away as it is possible to be.

[rexcat]

134. That must have happened before...

the break up of Pangean supercontinent!

[Odin2005]

50. Enjoy your short stay, troll.

[standingtall]

64. Because I belive in Jesus

That makes me a troll? Didn't know progressives weren't allowed to have faith. Thank you for informing of that.

[Warren Stupidity]

66. no because you believe in a literal interpretation of the bible

duh.

[morningfog]

69. How doyou feel about Scott Walker?

Why did you choose to respond as you did to a post on Walker?

[standingtall]

120. Walker is scum

Because someone asked in a post for those who believe in the story of Noah to explain what happened to everyone else.

[Odin2005]

76. Biblical literalist = almost certainly a wing-nut.

[standingtall]

92. That's your assumption

I believe in the right to organize the right to strike.
I believe in a woman right to choose.
I believe in a living wage
I believe people should be able to merry anyone they want.
I believe healthcare should be a right not a privilege.
I believe in abolishing the tip the tip credit system on a federal level,because it's nothing but wage theft made legal.


Does that sound like a wing nut? If it does then you and I have very different views on what a wing nut is.

[2ndAmForComputers]

126. No, that sounds like trying too hard.

[hifiguy]

60. Let us reason.

There are, by entomoligists' best guesses, literally tens of thousands of species of ants living on Earth. Many of these ants live only in places thousands of miles from the Middle East, in places like Africa, Asia and South/Central America.

How did these ants manage to travel to the Middle East?

How did they manage to survive separated from their environment and food sources?

How did they get back to where they are today?

And mind you, I am only talking about ants here, not discussing the myriad other creatures who live only in particular small areas around the world. Any answers, Einstein?

The ark story is a classic example of bullshit on stilts easily refutable by any anyone with a functioning cerebral cortex, a group to which you clearly do not belong.

[morningfog]

68. What a silly story to believe. Absolutely ridiculous.

So, Noah's family of eight spawned us all? And he saved the animals? Silliness and impossible.

[morningfog]

70. Do you believe everything written in the Old Testament literally?

[standingtall]

94. Actually no

The first five books. Were written by Moses. And Moses obviously wasn't alive therefore it's a commentary. However I do believe in most of the Old Testament. Including the story of Noah. To me the Old Testament is primarily a history book. We should look to the new testament for inspiration on how to live.

[Archae]

130. You are aware aren't you, that Exodus was propaganda, it never happened.

Genesis was written by sheep-herders who didn't know where lightning came from.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by a bad earthquake and fire, just like San Francisco in 1906, and Tokyo in 1923.

The Bible is like many other ancient writings from around that time, propaganda.
"Look how tough *OUR* God and we are!"

Egypt's Pharaoh Tutankhamen is pictured slaughtering dozens of Egypt's enemies single-handed in battle.
In reality Tut was club-footed and died when he was 18 or 19.

[Bolo Boffin]

136. I'd dispute the sheepherders part

My impression of most of the Hebrew scriptures is that it's propaganda, though. The region went back and forth between Egyptian and Mesopotamian control so many times. At times the Hebrew scriptures read like Egyptian-sympathetic propanganda against Mesopotamian beliefs (the first creation story sucks almost every god out of an otherwise Mesopotamian creation myth), and then again there's Mesopotamian-sympathetic propaganda against Egypt (the whole Exodus story). That's my crazy take on it, anyway.

[NickB79]

74. And the world is flat

Pi is equal to 3, eating a lobster is grounds for stoning, and I can sell my children into slavery for disobeying my commands.

Thanks for playing!

[standingtall]

79. Mosaic law

We are talking about Noah who predates Moses. And God told Noah in Genesis 9-3 Every moving thing liveth shall be meat for you.even as the green herb have I given you all things.' Mosaic law was given at a specific time to a specific group of people for a specific reason. We ain't under the laws of Moses, and I think we are not.

[cpwm17]

93. So that must have been when god was still in his rebel youth.

God was still only an infinite number of years old. Now god is a few thousand years older and wiser, and less of an ass.

[deutsey]

81. Serious question

Do you believe God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent?

If so, why couldn't God have come up with a way to reveal the Deity's displeasure with humanity to everyone, everywhere simultaneously, and in such a way that each individual would comprehend it? In so doing, why couldn't God unambiguously offer them salvation?

If it's about giving humanity free will to choose, it seems to me that an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God could find a way to factor free will into the revelation.

Why only go to Noah? Why the cosmic temper tantrum that destroys almost all life on earth?

[standingtall]

91. Because he gave us dominion over the earth

I kingdom cannot have more than one King. Man and God. So for him to enter into our kingdom. As it is written the seed of Adam will bruise the serpents head. For him to keep his word, and not violate our kingdom he had to be manifested in the flesh. Thus Jesus the God man. The only way it was possible. As for Noah. Noah was a righteous man. Was he the only righteous man left on earth. I simply do not know. Why destroy almost all life. Maybe it was teach the descendents of Noah what the consequences for being violent and bloody. God created all things including evil. You cannot not have free will without evil. If there is only good there is no free chose, but good thus eliminating free will.

The difference between god and man. When god destroys a life he also has the power to resurrect that same life. Man does not. Is he going to resurrect dead bodies on earth anytime soon? Probably not. Jesus was in the world, but not of the world. The world is an evil place, but Jesus went through the world without sin. Thus overcoming the world. Therefore he could be resurrected. Unlike Jesus we will not go through life never committing sin. Man flaw from birth a sinner, and can only be made perfect by god. Jesus was completely divine therefore sin was impossible for him. We need to ask Jesus to forgive us of our sins. Thus making us perfect, and worthy of our resurrection. Were we can be given bodies suited for eternity.

[deutsey]

98. Thanks for the response

It doesn't really resolve my question for me, though. I can't get past a Deity with the characteristics I've listed deciding to create such a convoluted world and then punishing everyone for it.

I'm the father of three children. If I were omniscient and knew that by bringing them into existence I would run the risk of damning any one of them to some awful fate like drowning in a flood because I was angry at the way they chose to live, I'd probably choose not to bring them into existence.

Building on that, I also wouldn't remove myself from direct encounters with them and choose to communicate to them through other people or by giving them ambiguous and often contradictory writings that are supposed to help them avoid drowning in this instance or to avoid hell in the common Christian way of understanding it.

And so on.

I hope you don't take this as mocking you. Based on what you've written, I used to share such views a long, long time ago. I have studied the Bible on a personal level and on a college level. The questions/observations I've raised here are ones that I've asked myself and have pondered for quite some time and they've led me to a different expereince of "GOD" than the one implied by your posts.

[snooper2]

83. You know what a bitch of a time Noah had getting two velociraptors to fuck!

I mean shit, you try holding that female down at 907 years old

He did it though! Noah was the shit!


For those that need an education on it-

The male would have had a penis which was inverted inside his cloaca most of the time. When he was about to mate, it would evert from his cloaca and be inserted into the female - it's likely the female would have crouched down, and the male stood over her with his tail wrapped underneath hers to accomplish this. The male would deposit his sperm inside the female, where it would fertilize her eggs, which were then coated in shell and laid. They would hatch after an incubation period. Most carnivorous dinosaurs are believed to have been attentive parents, taking care of their young for some time.

[Warpy]

87. I don't care if you flick your Bic and worship the flame

What you believe is your own business.

However, when you bang on my door early on a Saturday, harangue me in public, or elect officials that will push your dogma into civil law, you and I will have a huge problem.

However, believe as you wish. You have that constitutionally guaranteed right and I will be your ally in preserving that right.

[FLyellowdog]

101. 101 Myths of the Bible

by Gary Greenberg. You may need to read it. Interesting stuff.

[frylock]

102. bwahahahahaha!!!

welcome aboard! we're gonna have us some fun, aren't we?

[Renew Deal]

106. So me and you are related?

:

[standingtall]

121. Maybe 400,000th cousins or someting

[2ndAmForComputers]

125. May I ask you a question?

What are your reasons to vote Democratic instead of Republican?

Welcome to DU and HAVE A NICE DAY!

[EOTE]

107. And I'll continue to believe that the human race was crafted by a group of alien frat boys.

You know, as an intergalactic joke. Of course, both of our hypotheses have the same amount of evidence behind them. Most people wait for some facts before they form their belief system rather than taking the word of ancient ignoramuses and then trying to manipulate reality to conform to a belief system. Good luck with trying to disprove my belief, though, it's pretty much impossible to do so. I guess that means it's right, right?

[JoePhilly]

129. I believe that Satan created the Ark story ... prove me wrong.

[Capt. Obvious]

23. If the government had built the ark, the unicorns would have been saved

and Noah's kids would have been paid a prevailing wage under the Bacon Davis Act.

[Le Taz Hot]

27. Um, that whole ark thing?

Fairy tale.

[Capt. Obvious]

34. genocidal fairy tale

[Vinca]

31. And if Jeeeeeeeeesus dispensed contraceptives Walker would never have been born.

Sometimes the dumb just hurts.

[eShirl]

32. If Jor-El had needed government help to launch his rocket,

Last edited Thu Jul 19, 2012, 07:04 AM - Edit history (1)

Superman would have grown up in Germany.

http://vimeo.com/30954731

[Scuba]

40. If the R's see this they'll accuse Al Franken of being a Nazi sympathizer.

[JHB]

35. Wasn't Noah's government God? Didn't He comission it?

[Warren Stupidity]

36. Interstate highway system.

Manhattan Project.
Atlas missile system.
Saturn missile system.
Apollo Project.
Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
Space Shuttle.
Mars robotic explorers.
The internets.
...

[dipsydoodle]

38. No ark : no gnus

[lunatica]

42. If government is so bad then why is Scott Walker Governor?

[Enrique]

43. no government no tweet n/t

[Blue Owl]

47. What a fucking dumb shithead

n/t

[Blue Meany]

52. If it had been built by the government, Scott Walker would sell it to cronies

so that they could charge admission.

[moondust]

53. What about God's plan, Scott?

You know, the plan that made George Zimmerman kill that unarmed black kid. What about it, Scott? Are you suggesting God's plan is not all-powerful, Scott? That's heresy, Scott!!

Burn him!!!!!

[lumberjack_jeff]

54. That boy is dumber than a sack of hammers. n/t

[enki23]

56. If I had relied on union labor, I'd never have mustered my army of unicorn-riding angels

.

[ohheckyeah]

58. And if the government

hadn't helped develop the Internet this twit wouldn't have anywhere to tweet his stupid tweets.

[hifiguy]

59. Even when you think they can't get any dumber,

they manage to sink to a new low. How do people this effing stupid dress themselves or use toilet paper?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

112. You're assuming he does use toilet paper.

I am beginning to wonder.

[Moonwalk]

61. God isn't the government?

Seriously. Doesn't "Government" = whoever is in charge and running things? Ergo, god there was the government. So Noah built the ark and got all the animals on board with help from the biblical government.

Or is he saying if Noah had help from our government now? Well, we do have that whole faith-based assistance thing. And we do let faiths remain tax free. So I think Noah would have done just fine. Given how many churches get built thanks to the tax-free thing and faith-based assistance, it sure looks like the government is a good thing--too good a thing for religious projects.

[kestrel91316]

65. Imagine if Cinderella had been visited by her Senator instead of the fairy godmother.

How to these people manage to hold down paying jobs with their heads so full of fantasy???

[trueblue2007]

67. scott walker = jack ass

[skip fox]

71. There was no Noah's Arc. Period. A remnant of a myth.

These jokers are something.

Now in Louisiana at some of the voucher schools they have a text book that strongly suggests the Loch Ness Monster exists. Why? Because it disproves evolution!!!

That's for real. Fantasies based on fantasies. Or, in Walker's case, supporting a smaller government based on an anciet myth.

Geez.

[hughee99]

72. If government had been involved...

Ancient teabaggers would have called it "unnecessary government spending based on some crackpot's worst case scenario of climate change".

[drm604]

77. And if Neil Armstrong had needed help from the government

he might never have walked on the Moon!

[Coyotl]

86. I see we think alike, but

but you are one giant leap ahead of me

[raouldukelives]

80. Well it would almost certainly be a Republican pet project.

Which of course means it would be a sweetheart no-bid contract with KBR leading to tremendous cost overruns, delays and finally to a beautiful looking vessel that would promptly electrocute half the animals on board.

[Coyotl]

85. Imagine if Neil had needed help from the government to get to the moon, he would have failed.

Scott, you are a such a dufus!

[Coyotl]

88. If George W. Bush had not had the help of government to fight his war in Iraq, he would have lost

oh wait, ..... he got his ass handed to him over and over again

What is Big oil had to fight their dirty wars without the help of governments ... there would be no profit in wars.

[Canuckistanian]

90. I'm amazed at all these GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS telling us "Government can't do anything good"

The prove the assertion WRONG, assholes, by DOING SOMETHING GOOD!

[LynneSin]

95. If the republicans built the ark they would have denied the flood and then all drown

Just saying!

[Enrique]

99. wow, devastating argument

it's amazing that Scott Walker flunked out of college with a mind like that.

[frylock]

100. imagine if santa had needed help from the government to build those toys

[arcane1]

103. And if god wasn't a genocidal asshole, there would be no need for an ark

How do people continue to vote for these idiots?

[Renew Deal]

104. If Noah had help from gov't, the ark would have had 2 of every weapon.

[sabrina 1]

105. If there had been Government Programs like FEMA eg, Noah would not have needed to build an Ark.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

108. That's really stupid, even for that guy.

He's outdone himself in the stupid department.

So, (leaving aside that the Ark story is just a 3,000-year-old myth), we must assume that Noah was a successful private entrepreneur who built the ark as part of a profit-making enterprise, not because God told him to do it. But if, as the myth says, God told him to do it, why would it have mattered if he had or did not have "government" help (never mind that in those days there was no government as we know it ), wouldn't he have done it anyway - even if some pointy-headed government bureaucrat had told him he had too many animals or some damn thing? If God tells you to do something don't you just fucking do it?

Seriously, in a world of really stupid remarks from really stupid GOPers, that one takes the prize - at least until the next time Michele Bachmann opens her yap.

[Coyotl]

111. Everyone knows God and Noah were Progressive Democrats

because that wasn't a trickle down time

[kiranon]

115. If government helped build the Ark, we'd still have unicorns, dinosaurs and who knows

what else. Perhaps the Creationist Museum could help out on this point. All said in jest.

[nolabear]

122. Well then let's just stop all those gov't. shipbuilding contracts!

I know a whole bunch of shipyard towns and an entire defense dept. that might feel otherwise.

[liberal N proud]

127. Republicans would have told the animals they were on their own.

They would have put the 1% of the day on the boat and sailed away.

[tridim]

128. Myths defended with myths.. Ahh religion.

[jmowreader]

135. I'd like Walker to tell me this...

According to the Bible, Noah's eight-member family built a vessel that was approximately the size of the USS Nimitz completely out of wood, filled it with five pairs of every clean animal and two of every unclean animal, stocked it with enough food for all those animals PLUS Noah and his family to survive for over a year, and lived in this boat until the floodwaters receded.

Don'tcha think other people would have noticed this shit going on and built their own boats?

[gulliver]

137. Mass murder fantasy by proxy

"Noah," said God, "I'm gonna kill almost everybody on the planet. Everyone is so rotten, I just need to clean up. I'm gonna keep two of each animal so they can repopulate though."

"That's fine by me, God," said Noah, "and I'm sure most people will have no problem with it."

"Right. Some day, this story will have real appeal. Everyone who dislikes most other people enough to get a charge out of a mass drowning will love this story. Everyone's gonna love it. Millions, maybe billions of them will think they would be the ones on the ark if it happened again. Every last toad one of them will think it's all about them." God smacked Noah on the shoulder chummily.

"What do I do if a bunch of sinners try to get on the ark? Some of them have boats you know. What if a fishing boat full of women, children, kittens, and puppies pulls up along side us as we are leaving?"

"Keep moving."

"I get you."

"Sometimes if you bake a cake you have to break a few eggs. Some people like the egg breaking as much as the cake in fact."

"Yeah. Goddamned asshole worthless eggs, every last one of them."

"You, your family, a bunch of animals, and me. The rest..." God drew his thumb across his neck.

"Good thing it's your idea, God. I don't think I could get away with it. If you let me flip the rain switch that did all the kitten and toddler drowning, no one would like me. But since it is you..."

"Yup, I guess it is a good thing I exist," said God. "If I didn't it would just be a fantasy being of your own making doing all of that killing. In a way, it would be you."

"Yup, good thing you exist. I need you for stuff like this."