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Sat Nov 11, 2017, 02:59 PM

 

We Need To Stop Making Gay Jokes About Trump And Putin. Casual homophobia yields nothing positive.

We Need To Stop Making Gay Jokes About Trump And Putin
Casual homophobia yields nothing positive.


SNIP/

At the heart of jokes like these is an erroneous belief that men who have sex with other men are the ultimate failure of masculine expectations. The “comedy” within this idea reeks of a bygone era where the power of straight, white men went unchecked and people not meeting their ideals of masculinity ― namely women, gay people, trans people, people of color, minorities in general ― continued to always be the butt of the joke. Especially on late night television.

But we have moved beyond that era and into one where minorities shouldn’t have their lives ― or the ways that they have sex ― be the foundation for laughs when we’re pushing back against authority figures and institutions of power.

Because our lives are not a punchline.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/late-night-comedy-casual-homophpboa_us_5908c2bfe4b0bb2d087261de


Your Trump-Putin slashfic isn’t funny. It’s homophobic.
Jokes about Trump and Putin’s love for each other reduce being gay to a punchline.


SNIP/
Liberals just can’t seem to quit homophobia when it comes to Donald Trump.

As Andrew Kahn argued at Slate, the past week has seen liberals once again weaponize anti-gay attitudes in an attempt to mock Trump’s relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/7/11/15948206/trump-putin-liberal-homophobia


I am not gay and have been doing this myself. Ms.Toad called to my attention. So thought it'd be good to discuss & think about this.

34 replies, 2164 views

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Reply We Need To Stop Making Gay Jokes About Trump And Putin. Casual homophobia yields nothing positive. (Original post)
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 OP
WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2017 #1
GoneOffShore Nov 2017 #2
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #3
lame54 Nov 2017 #4
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #5
justiceischeap Nov 2017 #19
Loki Liesmith Nov 2017 #28
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #29
NCTraveler Nov 2017 #6
Behind the Aegis Nov 2017 #7
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #9
cwydro Nov 2017 #32
cwydro Nov 2017 #8
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #10
cwydro Nov 2017 #11
Orrex Nov 2017 #21
cwydro Nov 2017 #22
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #24
cwydro Nov 2017 #25
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #26
moriah Nov 2017 #31
Orrex Nov 2017 #33
Orrex Nov 2017 #27
yardwork Nov 2017 #13
cwydro Nov 2017 #14
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #15
cwydro Nov 2017 #16
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #18
cwydro Nov 2017 #20
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #23
treestar Nov 2017 #12
cwydro Nov 2017 #17
delisen Nov 2017 #30
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #34

Response to Madam45for2923 (Original post)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 03:01 PM

1. In before "but it's OK because they hate gay people, so being called gay is extra effective!"

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Original post)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 03:02 PM

2. I don't make a joke about their connection.

But I do call Dolt45 Putin's putain, because that's what he is.

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Original post)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 06:57 PM

3. Kicking!

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Original post)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 07:00 PM

4. If it's funny - say it..

You know how many gay jokes are on Will and Grace

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Response to lame54 (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 07:06 PM

5. People take it different ways. Good to know -& have in mind- what might bother others.

 

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Response to lame54 (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:23 AM

19. Point of fact, its not funny to millions of LGBTQ folks

Who have to put up with enough other crap. Then we have to listen to people say, “But Will & Grace...” Poor excuse for making fun of gay people because someone thinks it’s funny.

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Response to justiceischeap (Reply #19)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:56 AM

28. How does implying Putin and Trump are in love

Make fun of gay people?

In fact just the opposite. Implying they are in love is the only acceptable reason for Trumps behavior toward him. That’s the joke. Because otherwise the only answer is that Putin has something on him.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #28)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 09:02 AM

29. Makes sense but maybe it comes across as a gay whistle to the LGBTQ community.

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Original post)

Sat Nov 11, 2017, 07:10 PM

6. K&R nt

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Original post)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 02:56 AM

7. People don't take homophobia and heterosexism seriously.

It is that reason so many self-identified liberals and progressives think "fag" jokes are OK, and that is what these comparisons are. When gay people try to explain why it is offensive we are constantly "straightsplained" to, even by people who are always barking about "whitesplainin'" and "mansplainin'" Apparently, they are unaware that heterosexuals are the majority and hold all the power and their talking down to us, ignoring us, or otherwise marginalizing us is abusive and assertion of heterosexual privilege.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 07:08 AM

9. I agree that there seems to be a blind spot in people from the left, it's reason I posted OP.

 

Good to be aware so the blind spot is not so blind. At least we should think about it. That's where change starts.

Thoughts, then speech, then action, then ...

What I like (& love) about us, people on the left, DEMS, etc... is that we are open to progress.

We don't want to make America anything again. We want to always improve or Republic.

So next generations feel that we loved them so much we handed them our great Republic even better than we found it.





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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 09:20 AM

32. Bingo. nt

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Original post)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 06:34 AM

8. Counting down for the first reply that

says “but my brother/sister/best friend/ is gay, and they think it’s hilarious!”

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Response to cwydro (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 07:09 AM

10. What's your retort to that kind of comment?

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #10)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 07:37 AM

11. Usually the best I can summon up is an eye roll.

I don’t believe posters who say that, and I think it’s BS so they can keep making homophobic comments.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:35 AM

21. I have wondered about this, in fact

I follow several gay groups on FB in the Pittsburgh area. When Colbert made his joke months ago, I lurked there to get a sense of the community's reaction.

Granted, the people in those groups do not represent some universal consensus or unquestionable authority, but the overwhelming sentiment was that Colbert's joke was funny.

Several articulated the view that his intent was to mock Trump's fawning submissiveness to Putin, so mission accomplished, I guess?

That's not to be naive, though; obviously the joke plays on homophobia, and a number of people in those groups (and quite a few DUers) understandably took issue with Colbert for that reason. Certainly I wouldn't make the joke myself (though I just as certainly would have, years ago), but the response by the gay community was more nuanced than I might have expected.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:36 AM

22. No comedian would make that joke if 45 was a woman.

Period.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #22)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:43 AM

24. I think RW comedians would make that joke.

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #24)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:46 AM

25. Lol, you might have a point, but theyd certainly get a backlash.

It’s just sad that Dems think it’s ok to use “gay” as an insult.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #25)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:49 AM

26. From my own experience I say it is a blind spot we have. We are w/the LGBTQ community in

 

most all of their fights. We mean well for the LGBTQ community.

Some things we still have to be aware and self-aware.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #25)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 09:19 AM

31. I know they're doing it to express something other than homophobia...

... at least intentionally, on the surface.

The intent of course is to suggest that Trump is under undue influence from Putin, that Putin is the person in the power position and Trump is just doing his bidding. Perhaps being blackmailed. Etc.

Plus the idea of two outwardly homophobic people being "together" has been a thing ever since people wondered about people who "protest too much".

But that was insulting to people who were trying to protect their closet doors and may have had legitimate reasons for doing so, and really it's none of our goddamned business who even a "homophobic" person sleeps with. I knew people who later came out who attempted to project "macho homophobia" when young teens in a red state to hide so they wouldn't be beaten up. I don't want people rifling through my closest, not my place to go through someone else's.

And we should be able to think of better metaphors to demonstrate dominance than Putin being Trump's "top". I wish we could take the homosexual aspect out and depict a BDSM relationship even, because being heterosexual and a male sub aren't completely incompatible, and some straight male subs might accept a male Dom because they're getting off on the control and the pain, not the gender of the person doing it.

But it still has repercussions for gay people to even remotely associate them with Trump or Putin, and people in general don't understand BDSM enough to be able to see a male sub with a male dom as anything other than a suggestion they are gay too.

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Response to moriah (Reply #31)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 10:00 AM

33. Great post (nt)

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Response to cwydro (Reply #22)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:54 AM

27. That is absolutely and undeniably true

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Response to cwydro (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 07:50 AM

13. It's already been posted. See upthread.

Will and Grace say gay jokes, so it's fine.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #13)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:04 AM

14. Yeah, I see that now.

Unbelievable.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:10 AM

15. It is true though that they make gay jokes. So what is a retort to that?

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:16 AM

16. I think its been explained here in reference to how African Americans can use the N word.

Gay folks can make gay jokes amongst themselves, but it’s really not cool for straight people to do so.

Besides, this particular thing of accusing Putin and Shitstain as being gay is a very different kind of joke. Calling them “gay” is meant to be a slur in this context, and everyone knows it. Those comments are not meant as a “joke.” They are meant as an insult.

There is one of those comments in another thread on the front page right now. As well as the two comments in this thread. Sad, but not surprising.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #16)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:19 AM

18. I see. Reminds me of this video on the "n' word:

 




What do you think?



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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #18)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:33 AM

20. That is a great video.

He explains it very well. Some here would benefit by watching it and thinking about it.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:39 AM

23. Ain't it? That was my impression too when I watched yesterday for 1st time.

 

BTW I made a gay joke about Trump & Putin yesterday which is why Ms. Toad called me out.
At first I was annoyed but realized that someone was taking a moment to let me know something important.
And if I was in front of them perhaps I would not be so haughty and go on my way making these kinds of jokes.
Made me think a lot. Which is why I say that's a necessary beginning.



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Response to Madam45for2923 (Original post)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 07:46 AM

12. True.

Oddly enough, I don't think we would do it if one of them was a woman, that is, make jokes that they are having a heterosexual relationship.

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Response to treestar (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 08:17 AM

17. Of course not.

There is a reference to 45 giving head to Putin in another thread. I would assume that wouldn’t happen if our president was a woman.

It’s wrong on every level.

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Original post)

Sun Nov 12, 2017, 09:05 AM

30. Can they be seen as 2 people in love?

-or does the amount of free floating homophobia still present in culture make that still impossible.

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Response to delisen (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 13, 2017, 07:39 AM

34. I think this is a good question.

 

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