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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFOX is going crazy with Bill Clinton whataboutism.
It was twenty years ago and whatever he did or didn't do he was impeached and the current occupant of the White House has been accused of the same or worse. He likely couldn't get elected today . Only Republicans can get elected president with similar baggage.
Pedo Moore and Chump don't get a pass because Bill Clinton did bad things. That's absurd. That would be like a murderer arguing he should be able to get away with lobbing off the domes of his ex-wife and her friend because O.J. did.
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)
WinkyDink This message was self-deleted by its author.
mreilly
(2,120 posts)...No amount of screaming about the Clintons will ever change the fact #RoyMoore #RoyMooreChildMolester is an accused pedophile (by numerous sources) & he & his wife are dishonest people who don't belong in Washington D.C.
And don't expect the cowardly pResident pussy-grabber to ever have the guts to address this issue. If he defends or condemns Moore he loses either way, and he's too much of a quivering little chickenshit to stand up and deal with an issue like a grown-up.
mucifer
(23,547 posts)would be considered more serious by us dems than it was in those days. It's more than consent and being 21 years old.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)it's called a hostile work environment and should never be tolerated.
mucifer
(23,547 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)LuckyCharms
(17,441 posts)Clinton's only crime was that he lied about it.
Stuart G
(38,428 posts)I don't think I've ever seen that word before. whataboutism does it mean...
What about him?..or the idea of pointing a finger at someone else when I did it?
Or is it defined as .."the sickness of always pointing a finger at someone else when I did it?
sooooooooooooo......and this is an important question..."Is it the third finger?"
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)The usual structure of the fallacy is:
1. Person A makes claim X about Person B.
2. Person B points out that claim X is also true of Person A.
3. Therefore, X is irrelevant/false and A is a hypocrite.
This kind of reasoning is fallacious because criticism or objection to the person making the claim does not apply equally, if at all, to the argument itself. Certainly, if the premises are indeed true then source A is likely a hypocrite and should also be included in the guilty party, but this bears no relevance or relationship to the validity or factual-ness of the claim X. In essence, the claim X is being dismissed on grounds of a criticism of A, which is a non sequitur.
Stuart G
(38,428 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,355 posts)and whataboutism should not be the goal.
Mariana
(14,857 posts)For everything. Forever.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)C_U_L8R
(45,002 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:26 AM - Edit history (1)
If you really don't know the difference between a misguided dalliance among adults and your endorsee's predatory sexual abuse with children... you are lost. Totally adrift.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)but still contributes to a hostile work environment.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)....both of which involved consensual actions between two adults. That is completely irrelevant.
Rather, I'm just going to assume they are referring to the claims of three other women, namely Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey and Juanita Broaddrick.
As it pertains to Moore, it is blatant whataboutism and still completely irrelevant, but you know what? Fine. Let's have that conversation.
Jones, Willey and Broaddrick had allegations to make, and they made them. As anyone who has alleged to have been the victim of sexual harassment, impropriety or assault, they have a right to have their claims considered and investigated in good faith, free of initial judgment or condemnation.
That does not mean, however, that once their claims have been looked into, they can continue to be shielded from scrutiny. And that applies regardless if one is Democrat, Republican, Bill Clinton or Roy Moore.
Paula Jones made her accusations public in 1994; Wiley in 1998 and Broaddrick in 1999. Their stories have been available for years now, and all three allegations were picked up by the media once they had been reported.
There was investigations by special counsel of all three women's allegations against President Clinton. There were glaring discrepancies in testimony given by both Willey and Broaddrick to the point neither were considered reliable. In fact, Broaddrick even denied under oath ever being assaulted but then contradicted herself at a later date. Willey strangely alleged that President Clinton's unwanted touchings occurred on the same exact day her husband committed suicide.
As for Paula Jones' claims--which were slightly less severe than those of Willey or Broaddrick but if true would still be disturbing--the involvement from the very get-go of right wing organizations with a notorious record on the truth pushing her lawsuit for political purposes at the very least raises eyebrows. And the fact that all three women have continued to utilize ultra-right wing organizations to perpetuate their allegations in the years following making them should also call into question motives and veracity.
Roger Stone paid for all three women to repeat their stories in 2016 in front of cameras while sitting right next to Donald Trump, a man who openly bragged on video tape about having desires to grab women "by their pussies." Broaddrick has since attacked the women who have raised allegations against Judge Moore.
If these women were genuinely victims of sexual harassment or assault, why the lack of empathy towards other possible victims? And why the willingness to get down in the partisan political dirt rather than framing what supposedly happened to them as beyond politics?
Because sexual harassment and assault is definitely not a partisan political matter.
And further more, we are dealing with three allegations that were made no sooner than eighteen years ago. In those subsequent 18 years, there has not been further corroboration of their stories.
The women who have recently made their allegations against Judge Moore have only come out recently in their claims. Perhaps they are telling the truth. Perhaps they aren't. Perhaps they are motivated by politics. Perhaps they aren't. Like Jones, Willey and Broaddrick they deserve to have their claims taken in good faith upon the onset, but they must also not be exempt from further scrutiny as to their veracity and any possible countering motives should they come to light.