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All Franken also? (Original Post) SHRED Nov 2017 OP
No!!! Noooooo! femmocrat Nov 2017 #1
Okay, sorry, but if this is real, Franken is done. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #2
"If"?? nt B2G Nov 2017 #21
Yes, if... let's hear from AL Franken first before drawing any final conclusions... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #27
No, you did not. NCTraveler Nov 2017 #34
Okay, thanks. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #39
I am probably one of DU's more hyper-sensitive people when it comes to this issue. NCTraveler Nov 2017 #54
Though I reserve final judgment, I agree with you Orrex Nov 2017 #49
Oh he is not done. trueblue2007 Nov 2017 #109
I think a lot of groping behavior will be exposed among our side as well. hlthe2b Nov 2017 #3
Men acting badly crosses party lines. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #8
Gosh, it's almost like the problem is men, or how we see masculinity in our culture, or how society WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2017 #4
Douchebags are party agnostic. dpd3672 Nov 2017 #11
. Guy Whitey Corngood Nov 2017 #5
Yes, goddamn it. octoberlib Nov 2017 #6
I think there edhopper Nov 2017 #7
Like what? The Genealogist Nov 2017 #13
I want to hear his side. edhopper Nov 2017 #15
I think that is the most prudent thing to do. OnDoutside Nov 2017 #45
What the hell? The Genealogist Nov 2017 #9
oh no. Well this is terrible. OKNancy Nov 2017 #10
Awful... always thought Al had potential to make an excellent presidential candidate. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #37
If he assaults 14 women he'll be qualified to run as a Republican Orrex Nov 2017 #55
Oh, hell! The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #12
It's enough for me BannonsLiver Nov 2017 #61
Looks like a photoshop to me?? kentuck Nov 2017 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author madaboutharry Nov 2017 #36
So hopin it's a fake, but I doubt the victim would come out with this if not corroborated... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #51
Its not. Agschmid Nov 2017 #59
Here's more... from her pintobean Nov 2017 #62
No way. WinkyDink Nov 2017 #64
Franken acknowledged that he did that, so. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2017 #72
It doesn't look fake, looks like he wasn't actually touching her though. moriah Nov 2017 #90
He wasn't touching her Bradical79 Nov 2017 #99
Essentially the equivalent of drawing a dick on a sleeping face. moriah Nov 2017 #100
Based on what? Are you a graphic artist? n/t USALiberal Nov 2017 #117
He's done. AJT Nov 2017 #16
Damnit all to hell. PearliePoo2 Nov 2017 #17
Did anyone really think this kind of behavior was limited to republican men? CrispyQ Nov 2017 #18
Is anyone making the argument sexual harassment is limited to one party? LanternWaste Nov 2017 #38
No. It is a male thing. Caliman73 Nov 2017 #81
This has been a part of the male culture in this country forever. kentuck Nov 2017 #19
I think I'm gonna be sick. lamp_shade Nov 2017 #20
Just read the report, so this started as an actual skit in a comedy show... HipChick Nov 2017 #22
She's sleeping on the plane, flying home in the picture. He's groping her in her sleep. dpd3672 Nov 2017 #25
Except hes not actually groping her in the picture justiceischeap Nov 2017 #32
Don't see how Al spins this. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #42
Sleeping with a flak jacket and helmet on? kcr Nov 2017 #107
Its not in that picture! Docreed2003 Nov 2017 #26
Exactly..folks are just going with salacious headlines.. HipChick Nov 2017 #29
Actually it's more than that DesertRat Nov 2017 #53
You read the story and think this is a skit? Yupster Nov 2017 #31
This looks like a staged photo. lapucelle Nov 2017 #56
This message was self-deleted by its author WinkyDink Nov 2017 #67
I hope the photographer comes foward. lapucelle Nov 2017 #114
This message was self-deleted by its author WinkyDink Nov 2017 #115
There's nothing funny about the "joke". lapucelle Nov 2017 #119
This message was self-deleted by its author WinkyDink Nov 2017 #120
The only solution is to put more women in positions of power. JaneQPublic Nov 2017 #23
Absolutely get the red out Nov 2017 #30
How completely wrong that idea is. And completely sexist. moda253 Nov 2017 #68
Sounds like a re-purposed argument against Affirmative Action. (nt) JaneQPublic Nov 2017 #80
lol. Inkfreak Nov 2017 #74
So you are for a Michele Bachmann/Joni Ernst 2020 ticket nadine_mn Nov 2017 #87
Of course not. JaneQPublic Nov 2017 #92
If you honestly think Moore's systematic predation of TEENAGE nadine_mn Nov 2017 #93
That's not what I said. JaneQPublic Nov 2017 #96
Seems would be better to just elect women! Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #24
I'm good with that! radical noodle Nov 2017 #97
I'm veering off the subject a bit .... LenaBaby61 Nov 2017 #110
:( sakabatou Nov 2017 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author madaboutharry Nov 2017 #33
It's a bad look for Al. I'm disappointed. Let's see if it's a pattern. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2017 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author tenderfoot Nov 2017 #40
I don't get what you're saying. What are you saying? WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2017 #60
So... she was asking for it? pintobean Nov 2017 #71
Interesting take. Shaming is cool. Inkfreak Nov 2017 #76
Obviously a woman like that sarisataka Nov 2017 #86
Is he touching her or are his hands hovering above her? Sanity Claws Nov 2017 #41
Maybe some of you missed the part about B2G Nov 2017 #43
Don't forget the devil horns he made on some of her pix. oasis Nov 2017 #108
Brace yourselves. Many are about to learn something they have been.... NCTraveler Nov 2017 #44
Well, this is a kick in the head! But it should also be a wake up call. Grammy23 Nov 2017 #46
Hear, hear! Excellent response! Morris64 Nov 2017 #104
The number of people making excuses about the photo is unsurprising and disappointing. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2017 #47
Well you're going to have to get a bigger album in that case. OnDoutside Nov 2017 #58
I would respond in the exact same way I did in my previous comment justiceischeap Nov 2017 #63
At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite nadine_mn Nov 2017 #48
He badgered her into 'practicing' the kiss B2G Nov 2017 #52
Assume he's a Republican and tell me if you'd have written the same thing. Dreamer Tatum Nov 2017 #78
Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #83
Oh you mean like "locker room talk" forthemiddle Nov 2017 #84
Nailed it nadine_mn Nov 2017 #91
I love your honesty forthemiddle Nov 2017 #94
Franken statement to the effect that OnDoutside Nov 2017 #50
This is right wing bullshit. I don't believe it. Greybnk48 Nov 2017 #57
This message was self-deleted by its author WinkyDink Nov 2017 #77
It was obviously a joke and Franken was on a USO tour working as a comedian. Vinca Nov 2017 #98
This message was self-deleted by its author WinkyDink Nov 2017 #116
Wtf was he thinking? Damn it Al Thrill Nov 2017 #65
This message was self-deleted by its author WinkyDink Nov 2017 #79
Well this is disappointing ... whether true or not KPN Nov 2017 #66
Franken apologized for the photo.. kentuck Nov 2017 #69
Can't escape the photo (I guess HE knows it's real), but the alleged "kiss" (not much mutual there) WinkyDink Nov 2017 #73
He didn't say he didn't remember the kiss Yupster Nov 2017 #82
So disappointing romana Nov 2017 #70
I think Franken should be censured by the Senate Tom Rinaldo Nov 2017 #75
I'm hurt and disappointed. Tavarious Jackson Nov 2017 #88
I disagree that we are at a defining moment. moda253 Nov 2017 #89
He needed to come out with a strong apology SHRED Nov 2017 #85
Agreed. Morris64 Nov 2017 #113
That is shameful rusty fender Nov 2017 #95
didnt happen, staged photo for skit, she is lying Eliot Rosewater Nov 2017 #102
nope, SHE IS LYING Eliot Rosewater Nov 2017 #101
Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #111
Get Ready for a Bunch of Allegations Against Popular Democrats Leith Nov 2017 #103
This message was self-deleted by its author maryellen99 Nov 2017 #105
This message was self-deleted by its author Skittles Nov 2017 #106
yeesh.... Blue_Tires Nov 2017 #112
This message was self-deleted by its author WinkyDink Nov 2017 #118

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
27. Yes, if... let's hear from AL Franken first before drawing any final conclusions...
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:51 AM
Nov 2017

that's all I'm sayin'. Not sayin' it's a photoshop job or anything, but there's always the REMOTE possibility it's a fake photo.

So, yes, "if" its true - and I DO believe that it IS at first blush - then he's done, as I said.

Did I say something wrong?

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
54. I am probably one of DU's more hyper-sensitive people when it comes to this issue.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:05 PM
Nov 2017

Dismissal, as was blatantly done in another reply, really really bothers me.

Your statement was not dismissal. In fact, it expresses the possibility.

Orrex

(63,213 posts)
49. Though I reserve final judgment, I agree with you
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:03 PM
Nov 2017

I've been a fan for decades, but if this is true the to hell with him.

hlthe2b

(102,283 posts)
3. I think a lot of groping behavior will be exposed among our side as well.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:27 AM
Nov 2017

I don't condone it nor excuse it--they will have to make amends themselves. If things are going to change in terms of professionalism and respect between working men and women, WE will have to experience a bit of pain in these exposes' as well.

That said, conflating this alleged transgression with what has occurred with Moore, Trump, Weinstein and others is really inappropriate IMO. What is alleged was crossing the line in terms of a nonprofessional engaged in a skit and Franken perceiving it as no different than that which would occur among actors, comedians, professionals in the course of entertainment/acting. Given it was not a mutually-approved "act or skit" among actors, he would have been very much wrong to do so.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,355 posts)
4. Gosh, it's almost like the problem is men, or how we see masculinity in our culture, or how society
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:27 AM
Nov 2017

rewards toxic masculinity, or how our society doesn't see women as actual people, and not something that has to do with party affiliation, geography or wealth.

 

dpd3672

(82 posts)
11. Douchebags are party agnostic.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:30 AM
Nov 2017

It's not a left/right issue, it's an entitled person abusing power issue. I also wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't limited to men, as I've seen more than a few women abusing their power this way.

Orrex

(63,213 posts)
55. If he assaults 14 women he'll be qualified to run as a Republican
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:06 PM
Nov 2017

Not making light of the accusation, but I marvel at the outrage of Republicans who nevertheless continue to march in lockstep behind their idiot orange idol.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,719 posts)
12. Oh, hell!
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:30 AM
Nov 2017

This is beyond disappointing. He’s been such a great senator but there’s no way to justify this behavior. I hope he issues a for real and sincere apology but is that enough?

Shit.

Response to kentuck (Reply #14)

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
51. So hopin it's a fake, but I doubt the victim would come out with this if not corroborated...
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:05 PM
Nov 2017

by witnesses. #MeToo

moriah

(8,311 posts)
90. It doesn't look fake, looks like he wasn't actually touching her though.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:35 PM
Nov 2017

I might be incorrect, and he was definitely going for that *effect* in the picture.

Even with Kevlar between boobs and sonebody's hands, though, close enough to look like he was actually making physical contact while they aren't aware is too damn close.

He admitted he posed the picture that way, and said he shouldn't have done it.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
99. He wasn't touching her
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 01:18 PM
Nov 2017

Well, maybe the fingertips on the flak jacket. Defenitely not groping. It's juevenille, and creepy if the person isn't a friend into really off color jokes, but not assault. Harassment, sure. The rehearsal story is the real problem if true, and makes the photo extra harassing/humiliating.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
100. Essentially the equivalent of drawing a dick on a sleeping face.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 01:23 PM
Nov 2017

Which we might deal with in junior high.

We should hope our Senators are a little more mature.

CrispyQ

(36,470 posts)
18. Did anyone really think this kind of behavior was limited to republican men?
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:39 AM
Nov 2017

We live in a patriarchy, where women are second class citizens & our main purpose is to please & serve men. At one time, this was excused as boys being boys. I'm sorry it was Senator Franken, but I'm not surprised to see it on our side, too.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
38. Is anyone making the argument sexual harassment is limited to one party?
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:58 AM
Nov 2017

Is anyone making the argument sexual harassment is limited to one party?

Caliman73

(11,738 posts)
81. No. It is a male thing.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:27 PM
Nov 2017

I mean, we had Gary Hart, Bill Clinton, Jon Edwards, Anthony Weiner, Elliot Spitzer, and others in the modern term. I think that there was an article out there somewhere that indicated that all but 3 presidents were confirmed to have had affairs and fathered children with women not their wives.

Mixing men, with power, and a lack of accountability and you will get what we are seeing today.

kentuck

(111,098 posts)
19. This has been a part of the male culture in this country forever.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:40 AM
Nov 2017

We should not be surprised if many, many more men are exposed for such incidents. Hopefully, it won't be with children.

However, it is time for this problem to be confronted once and for all. If women are to be equal, they must be treated with equality and respect.

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
22. Just read the report, so this started as an actual skit in a comedy show...
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:46 AM
Nov 2017

and then a photograph was taken, where was the actual groping??

 

dpd3672

(82 posts)
25. She's sleeping on the plane, flying home in the picture. He's groping her in her sleep.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:49 AM
Nov 2017

This is gonna be hard to spin; the optics are horrible. It's Bill Cosby without the roofies, and photographic evidence.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
32. Except hes not actually groping her in the picture
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:55 AM
Nov 2017

I’m not making excuses for his behavior but we need to use the correct terminology for this shit. He’s sexually harassing her — that’s what this picture shows. But his hands aren’t actually touching her flak jacket, let alone her breasts. And she claims the picture as proof that he groped her...cause she was asleep. You can’t claim a picture that doesn’t actually show groping as proof of groping.

My concern about this situation isn’t that Franken gets in trouble, it’s that by using terminology to equate things that aren’t happening (per this photograph) we have a harder time believing women when they say something happened when they don’t have a picture.

Docreed2003

(16,861 posts)
26. Its not in that picture!
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:50 AM
Nov 2017

Yeah the picture is totally inappropriate but he’s not groping her there! I would be more inclined to believe the story if this weren’t a Fox News contributor and they hadn’t put in a pic that looks suspiciously staged.

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
29. Exactly..folks are just going with salacious headlines..
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:52 AM
Nov 2017

inappropriate to be sure...and that pic looks staged...

Yupster

(14,308 posts)
31. You read the story and think this is a skit?
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:54 AM
Nov 2017

The groping is on an airplane.

The French kiss was part of the skit.




lapucelle

(18,265 posts)
56. This looks like a staged photo.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:06 PM
Nov 2017

That's why Franken is looking over his shoulder and making that stupid grin for the camera. His hands don't appear to be touching her.

The woman in the picture is an entertainer/model/radio host who is a frequent guest on Hannity's Great American Panel. The Hannity connection makes me immediately suspicious.

So by kissing and groping, is she referring to some other incident or to the kiss in a comedy skit and the tasteless staged photo?



Response to lapucelle (Reply #56)

lapucelle

(18,265 posts)
114. I hope the photographer comes foward.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 06:56 PM
Nov 2017

I happened to listen to Hannity on the drive home, and he recounted how Tweedem told him all about the incident 11 years ago.

Response to lapucelle (Reply #114)

lapucelle

(18,265 posts)
119. There's nothing funny about the "joke".
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:07 AM
Nov 2017

That should be the takeaway, but I think it's important to remember that rape culture "humor" was much more common 10 years ago than it is now.

At least the media is taking the problem more seriously. When this photo surfaced in 2008, it did not get wide coverage, and the "pretend groper" went on to a distinguished White House career. Those who bothered to cover the story were more bemused than outraged.




http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/12/obama-favreau.html

Response to lapucelle (Reply #119)

JaneQPublic

(7,113 posts)
23. The only solution is to put more women in positions of power.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 11:47 AM
Nov 2017

It's so disappointing to learn that Franken, who certainly pays lip service to women's rights, would turn out to be objectifying jerk.

So if we can't even trust men like Franken to do the right thing, then by all means hand over the reins to women in government, in business, in arts... hell even the Catholic Church would be much improved with a change to women in power.

 

moda253

(615 posts)
68. How completely wrong that idea is. And completely sexist.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:11 PM
Nov 2017

So rather than just get to a point of neutrality we go whole hog and swing the pendulum the other way completely. Because THAT won't result in problems either right?

Basically we are now saying that men in general need to be punished. That's sexist.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
87. So you are for a Michele Bachmann/Joni Ernst 2020 ticket
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:31 PM
Nov 2017

Because we should only elect women?

What about Nikki Haley/Sarah Palin 2020?

Yep all women are better. Give me Franken any day over some of the women we have elected

JaneQPublic

(7,113 posts)
92. Of course not.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:47 PM
Nov 2017

This is a DEMOCRATIC forum; I didn't think it necessary to specify liberal women belonging to the Democratic Party.

How about we not make the same arguments the GOPers are making for Moore, but substituting in Franken's name? They justify and excuse Moore's behavior for political expediency, and that's exactly what you are doing for Franken.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
93. If you honestly think Moore's systematic predation of TEENAGE
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:51 PM
Nov 2017

young women over the course of years to the point where everyone knew, he was banned from a mall, and had a long history of this behavior EQUALS what Franken did (if he did in fact force his tongue down the woman's throat)

Then there is absolutely no point in you and I having any further discussion.

JaneQPublic

(7,113 posts)
96. That's not what I said.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 01:06 PM
Nov 2017

I said the same ARGUMENT was being used to defend Franken as was used to defend Moore.

I did NOT say Franken's ACTIONS were the same as Moore's.

But the bottom line is that it is the folks in MN who will decide whether Al's conduct renders him unacceptable to serve as their Senator. The rest of us are just spouting off our opinions.

LenaBaby61

(6,974 posts)
110. I'm veering off the subject a bit ....
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 02:40 PM
Nov 2017

But sexual misconduct is horrible no matter who does it. And, not to diminish this incident with Franken, but 2 friends young sons were taken advantage of by their teachers over the last decade that I know personally. One was 13 and the other going on 15 when these incidents happened when they were students in their different middle-schools (Both young men are in their 20's now, 1 married with a son, the oldest married--no kids). It's sad that in my somewhat "limited" universe that I know 2 young men who were taken advantage of sexually by their female teachers, who by the way ONLY received house arrest and probation The young men were saddened, and their parents were livid, and they STILL aren't happy all these years later as you could imagine. With years of counseling, the young men have been able to "somewhat" move on from what happened, and I say somewhat because I've seen and interacted with both over the years and saw one of the young men with his son about 4 months ago (He calls me Auntie) because I was over his parents house visiting when he stopped by with his son. As for the teachers, the parents have heard through the grapevine that both are looking forward to being removed from the sexual offenders registry come 2021 (Gov Brown :eyes even though in their 40's, and married with teenage children. To say that a sexual misconduct/abuse incident was MINOR enough to get some offenders off the sexual offender registry is ridiculous. Like I said, both young men STILL talk about what happened to them all these years later--all victims of sexual abuse of course never, ever forget about it. IMHO, there would be nothing in MY mind that would have me saying that any incident of sexual misconduct was "minor" enough to get an offender off of any sexual offender registry.




Response to SHRED (Original post)

Response to SHRED (Original post)

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
44. Brace yourselves. Many are about to learn something they have been....
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:00 PM
Nov 2017

either ignoring or ignorant to. Abusive men do not fly an ideological flag over their head. We know this and it has been discussed here at length. Ohhh how I miss redqueen and seabeyond.

Grammy23

(5,810 posts)
46. Well, this is a kick in the head! But it should also be a wake up call.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:01 PM
Nov 2017

If true (and my doubts, if I had any, evaporated when I saw that picture), means we need to take a good, hard look at our culture that has condoned and laughed at this kind of behavior, no matter who did it. This is not just on one side or the other. It is pervasive in our society and only recently has anyone seriously questioned whether it is “right”.

We can easily point the finger if the perpetrator is someone we don’t mind accusing. tRump was an easy target because we already didn’t like him for his jackass personality but to add on sleezebag to the list of names to call him was icing on the cake. Now that we’re faced with one of our favored politicians being not only accused, but being provided with a picture of him humiliating this woman, it demands that we drop the pretense that it is only people on “the other side” who do this shit.

The rubber meets the road here, folks. We face the truth about it, or we fold our tent and just forget about confronting it at all. If we want to be hypocrites about it, guess we can give a Franken a pass and excuse his bad behavior as just a “joke”. Or we can be honest, come to the table ready to admit the sins are many and are part of our culture. Period. No one side is infected with it. There is plenty to go around.

So what will it be? Excuses and lots of hemming and hawing? Or grow up, man up and try to fix this mess. Starting with the truth...for once.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,355 posts)
47. The number of people making excuses about the photo is unsurprising and disappointing.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:01 PM
Nov 2017

I encourage people to imagine Trump in that same pose and to honestly assess whether they would respond the same way. Jesus Christ.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
63. I would respond in the exact same way I did in my previous comment
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:08 PM
Nov 2017

This picture does not show “groping” but it DOES show sexual harassment.

Again, I think getting the terminology correct is very important. There are tons of women who don’t have photographic proof of being groped and if we equate a photo that doesn’t actually show groping as proof of groping, then how can we convince people that groping occurred when there isn’t a photo?

Shoving his tongue down her throat is assault but what is happening in that photo is not — and I’m not claiming that he didn’t touch her once the photo had been snapped, that could have happened but the photo does bear fruit of that allegation.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
48. At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:03 PM
Nov 2017

This comes across as more like a sad attempt at humor (the kind some guys think is hilarious) rather than the level of sexual assault in Cosby, Weinstein, Louis CK et al

The skit was poor humor with the kiss, the pic of him "groping" her (he is barely touching her and seems to be mugging for the camera...like when guys draw dicks in Sharpie on friends who pass out).. this is shit that is embarrassing and humiliating for women that a lot of men don't understand.

Al's love for Frannie seems so sincere and so real, I find it hard to believe it's anything more than stupid lame ass humor. I mean if your plan is sexual assault...would you really do it on a plane in front of a bunch of witness (some who would kick your ass)?

That doesn't make it ok and it doesn't mean he shouldn't own it and apologize. I just don't find it on the same level of isolating a woman in a hotel room or drugging her.

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
78. Assume he's a Republican and tell me if you'd have written the same thing.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:21 PM
Nov 2017

I can help you with that. The answer is no.

Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #78)

forthemiddle

(1,379 posts)
84. Oh you mean like "locker room talk"
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:29 PM
Nov 2017

Just saying.........
We believe Anita Hill, but we don't believe Juanita Broderick?
We believe the worst about Roy Moore, but feel that George Takei's accuser is lying.....
We think George HW Bush is a perv, but we never, ever say anything about some of the uncomfortable Biden pictures.....

Now I personally don't think that he meant to be anything but funny in this picture, but be honest and tell me how different this thread would be if it was Ted Cruz?

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
91. Nailed it
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:46 PM
Nov 2017

You don't think it makes me cringe when on the one hand Biden championed the Violence Against Women Act and on the other hand his weird touching of women?

You don't think it makes me sick to think how much I looked up to Bill Clinton as the first president I could vote for only to find out at best he's a womanizer at worst he's guilty of sexual assault?

I 100% believe that this photo by Franken was in poor taste and a gross attempt at humor.

I'm not sure about the forced kiss. His election against Coleman was so ugly and nasty, they threw everything at him but never did I hear anything about him having a pattern of harassing women. Inappropriate jokes yes. The difference between that and Trumps locker room talk is he admitted to assualting women.

If it turns out there has been a pattern of this behavior from Franken like with Moore and Trump, then I will call Franken and tell him to resign as my senator.

No one is perfect... if I could honestly say I have never done anything inappropriate in my lame attempts at humor when I was younger (including racist, sexist,homophobic remarks) or if I have never touched a man inappropriately then maybe I could take your moral high ground.

But I can't. I also weigh the good someone has done vs the bad.

I can't honestly say that if Obamacare was hanging by one vote, and Moore said if elected he would swing for Obamacare even against party pressure I would be less upset about him being elected.

I can't do purity tests.

forthemiddle

(1,379 posts)
94. I love your honesty
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 01:00 PM
Nov 2017

And I think I agree almost 100% with everything you wrote.
If anyone here can look back at their own past and not remember a really bad joke that seemed funny at the time, then they are much better people than me!
I don't think the picture was meant to be anything but unappropriately funny, but I must admit that I am very upset about the kiss part of it though.... it just seems credible, and I hate that....

OnDoutside

(19,957 posts)
50. Franken statement to the effect that
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:04 PM
Nov 2017

He doesn't remember the rehearsal in the same way, but apologizes to her.

The photo was meant to be funny, and he shouldn't have done it.


Response to Greybnk48 (Reply #57)

Vinca

(50,273 posts)
98. It was obviously a joke and Franken was on a USO tour working as a comedian.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 01:17 PM
Nov 2017

Things need to be taken in context. It will be interesting to hear the recollections of other people on the tour. If I had been the woman in the photo, I would have asked for an autographed copy. Wonder if she might have. But, the GOP now has their scapegoat and they seem to think this balances the scales with Pedo Moore.

Response to Vinca (Reply #98)

Response to Thrill (Reply #65)

KPN

(15,646 posts)
66. Well this is disappointing ... whether true or not
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:08 PM
Nov 2017

it's no doubt going to hound Franken going forward. I had a strong feeling we'd start to see this coming out on our side as well. Alpha males are alpha males. It's not a party thing, and it seems many alpha males feel entitled to this sort of behavior.

As a male myself, I'm thinking, yeah, we need a hell of a lot more women in office and key positions.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
73. Can't escape the photo (I guess HE knows it's real), but the alleged "kiss" (not much mutual there)
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:16 PM
Nov 2017

is the classic "He said--She said."

Yupster

(14,308 posts)
82. He didn't say he didn't remember the kiss
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:29 PM
Nov 2017

He said he didn't remember the rehearsal the same way she did. Lots of wiggle room there.

romana

(765 posts)
70. So disappointing
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:13 PM
Nov 2017

And his statement was weak. We need to demand better because there is just no excuse for this kind of behavior from any man.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
75. I think Franken should be censured by the Senate
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:18 PM
Nov 2017

It can't be ignored. I think that is the level of response that this level of harassment rises to in, and it is a very serious blot on his public record if that happens. He is done regarding seeking higher office. Perhaps he is done in terms of being reelected. But removing him from the Senate for this behavior seems like a judgement the voters should probably make. Brace ourselves folks. There will be more powerful men identified engaged in this type of behavior, on both sides of the aisle. It can't be swept under the rug. The degree of punishment should track with the severity of the offense - and yes that is wide open to debate.

We are at a defining moment in terms of gender relations. There must be accountability for the past. At the same time now the bar must be raised again. Moving forward there should be a zero tolerance policy. All men who abuse their power and position in this way have now been forewarned.

 

Tavarious Jackson

(1,595 posts)
88. I'm hurt and disappointed.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:33 PM
Nov 2017

Just because the GOP can get away with electing Trump with these issues does not mean we dems get a pass. I agree with you

 

moda253

(615 posts)
89. I disagree that we are at a defining moment.
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:33 PM
Nov 2017

We are in the colosseum and the attendants demand their blood. Exposing people is one thing but as a society we are doing jack shit to change societal behavior. It is good that people are paying the price for what they did but if that's where it ends nothing is going to change. Impulse is impulse and it happens without regard to punishment.

Want to see actual change in relationships between men/women minorities/whites? start making things happen that put them on equal playing fields in terms of pay, leadership, respect and then you will see these relationships change.

Exposing is a start but it means nothing if it is just political weaponry.

 

rusty fender

(3,428 posts)
95. That is shameful
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 01:05 PM
Nov 2017

Given that women in the military are raped at an alarming rate, they shouldn't have to put up with USO people groping them as well

I'm almost speechless

Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #101)

Leith

(7,809 posts)
103. Get Ready for a Bunch of Allegations Against Popular Democrats
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 01:37 PM
Nov 2017

I don't know if rethugs will find any more accusations against Senator Franken, but you can bet your last dollar that there will be more accusations against more Democrats. Smearing is what they do best.

You better believe that they are digging into the backgrounds of Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Cory Booker, Adam Schiff, Ted Lieu, Joaquin Castro, and every other well known, charismatic, and/or powerful Democratic man (or who caucuses with the Democratic side). This is just beginning.

Fasten your seatbelts.

Response to Leith (Reply #103)

Response to SHRED (Original post)

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
112. yeesh....
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 02:51 PM
Nov 2017

Well, I knew just by the law of averages some of our people were going to get caught up in this....

Response to SHRED (Original post)

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»All Franken also?