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Damn it.
Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And Theres Nothing Funny About It
http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/
Link to tweet
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)Et tu, Al? Disgusting.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)that's all I'm sayin'. Not sayin' it's a photoshop job or anything, but there's always the REMOTE possibility it's a fake photo.
So, yes, "if" its true - and I DO believe that it IS at first blush - then he's done, as I said.
Did I say something wrong?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Some are simply inclined to believe whatever they read.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Dismissal, as was blatantly done in another reply, really really bothers me.
Your statement was not dismissal. In fact, it expresses the possibility.
Orrex
(63,213 posts)I've been a fan for decades, but if this is true the to hell with him.
trueblue2007
(17,223 posts)hlthe2b
(102,283 posts)I don't condone it nor excuse it--they will have to make amends themselves. If things are going to change in terms of professionalism and respect between working men and women, WE will have to experience a bit of pain in these exposes' as well.
That said, conflating this alleged transgression with what has occurred with Moore, Trump, Weinstein and others is really inappropriate IMO. What is alleged was crossing the line in terms of a nonprofessional engaged in a skit and Franken perceiving it as no different than that which would occur among actors, comedians, professionals in the course of entertainment/acting. Given it was not a mutually-approved "act or skit" among actors, he would have been very much wrong to do so.
Irish_Dem
(47,114 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,355 posts)rewards toxic masculinity, or how our society doesn't see women as actual people, and not something that has to do with party affiliation, geography or wealth.
dpd3672
(82 posts)It's not a left/right issue, it's an entitled person abusing power issue. I also wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't limited to men, as I've seen more than a few women abusing their power this way.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts).
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)edhopper
(33,580 posts)is more to this.
The Genealogist
(4,723 posts)edhopper
(33,580 posts)OnDoutside
(19,957 posts)The Genealogist
(4,723 posts)Really? Even Al Franken?
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)damn
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Orrex
(63,213 posts)Not making light of the accusation, but I marvel at the outrage of Republicans who nevertheless continue to march in lockstep behind their idiot orange idol.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,719 posts)This is beyond disappointing. Hes been such a great senator but theres no way to justify this behavior. I hope he issues a for real and sincere apology but is that enough?
Shit.
BannonsLiver
(16,387 posts)kentuck
(111,098 posts)I need to know more.
Response to kentuck (Reply #14)
madaboutharry This message was self-deleted by its author.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)by witnesses. #MeToo
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)It looks very believable to me.
Edit - sorry, I missed the link in the OP.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,355 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts)I might be incorrect, and he was definitely going for that *effect* in the picture.
Even with Kevlar between boobs and sonebody's hands, though, close enough to look like he was actually making physical contact while they aren't aware is too damn close.
He admitted he posed the picture that way, and said he shouldn't have done it.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Well, maybe the fingertips on the flak jacket. Defenitely not groping. It's juevenille, and creepy if the person isn't a friend into really off color jokes, but not assault. Harassment, sure. The rehearsal story is the real problem if true, and makes the photo extra harassing/humiliating.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Which we might deal with in junior high.
We should hope our Senators are a little more mature.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)PearliePoo2
(7,768 posts)CrispyQ
(36,470 posts)We live in a patriarchy, where women are second class citizens & our main purpose is to please & serve men. At one time, this was excused as boys being boys. I'm sorry it was Senator Franken, but I'm not surprised to see it on our side, too.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Is anyone making the argument sexual harassment is limited to one party?
Caliman73
(11,738 posts)I mean, we had Gary Hart, Bill Clinton, Jon Edwards, Anthony Weiner, Elliot Spitzer, and others in the modern term. I think that there was an article out there somewhere that indicated that all but 3 presidents were confirmed to have had affairs and fathered children with women not their wives.
Mixing men, with power, and a lack of accountability and you will get what we are seeing today.
kentuck
(111,098 posts)We should not be surprised if many, many more men are exposed for such incidents. Hopefully, it won't be with children.
However, it is time for this problem to be confronted once and for all. If women are to be equal, they must be treated with equality and respect.
lamp_shade
(14,834 posts)HipChick
(25,485 posts)and then a photograph was taken, where was the actual groping??
dpd3672
(82 posts)This is gonna be hard to spin; the optics are horrible. It's Bill Cosby without the roofies, and photographic evidence.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)Im not making excuses for his behavior but we need to use the correct terminology for this shit. Hes sexually harassing her thats what this picture shows. But his hands arent actually touching her flak jacket, let alone her breasts. And she claims the picture as proof that he groped her...cause she was asleep. You cant claim a picture that doesnt actually show groping as proof of groping.
My concern about this situation isnt that Franken gets in trouble, its that by using terminology to equate things that arent happening (per this photograph) we have a harder time believing women when they say something happened when they dont have a picture.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)kcr
(15,317 posts)Hmmm.
Docreed2003
(16,861 posts)Yeah the picture is totally inappropriate but hes not groping her there! I would be more inclined to believe the story if this werent a Fox News contributor and they hadnt put in a pic that looks suspiciously staged.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)inappropriate to be sure...and that pic looks staged...
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)Yupster
(14,308 posts)The groping is on an airplane.
The French kiss was part of the skit.
lapucelle
(18,265 posts)That's why Franken is looking over his shoulder and making that stupid grin for the camera. His hands don't appear to be touching her.
The woman in the picture is an entertainer/model/radio host who is a frequent guest on Hannity's Great American Panel. The Hannity connection makes me immediately suspicious.
So by kissing and groping, is she referring to some other incident or to the kiss in a comedy skit and the tasteless staged photo?
Response to lapucelle (Reply #56)
WinkyDink This message was self-deleted by its author.
lapucelle
(18,265 posts)I happened to listen to Hannity on the drive home, and he recounted how Tweedem told him all about the incident 11 years ago.
Response to lapucelle (Reply #114)
WinkyDink This message was self-deleted by its author.
lapucelle
(18,265 posts)That should be the takeaway, but I think it's important to remember that rape culture "humor" was much more common 10 years ago than it is now.
At least the media is taking the problem more seriously. When this photo surfaced in 2008, it did not get wide coverage, and the "pretend groper" went on to a distinguished White House career. Those who bothered to cover the story were more bemused than outraged.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/12/obama-favreau.html
Response to lapucelle (Reply #119)
WinkyDink This message was self-deleted by its author.
JaneQPublic
(7,113 posts)It's so disappointing to learn that Franken, who certainly pays lip service to women's rights, would turn out to be objectifying jerk.
So if we can't even trust men like Franken to do the right thing, then by all means hand over the reins to women in government, in business, in arts... hell even the Catholic Church would be much improved with a change to women in power.
get the red out
(13,466 posts)It isn't looking good for powerful men right now.
moda253
(615 posts)So rather than just get to a point of neutrality we go whole hog and swing the pendulum the other way completely. Because THAT won't result in problems either right?
Basically we are now saying that men in general need to be punished. That's sexist.
JaneQPublic
(7,113 posts)Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)Because we should only elect women?
What about Nikki Haley/Sarah Palin 2020?
Yep all women are better. Give me Franken any day over some of the women we have elected
JaneQPublic
(7,113 posts)This is a DEMOCRATIC forum; I didn't think it necessary to specify liberal women belonging to the Democratic Party.
How about we not make the same arguments the GOPers are making for Moore, but substituting in Franken's name? They justify and excuse Moore's behavior for political expediency, and that's exactly what you are doing for Franken.
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)young women over the course of years to the point where everyone knew, he was banned from a mall, and had a long history of this behavior EQUALS what Franken did (if he did in fact force his tongue down the woman's throat)
Then there is absolutely no point in you and I having any further discussion.
JaneQPublic
(7,113 posts)I said the same ARGUMENT was being used to defend Franken as was used to defend Moore.
I did NOT say Franken's ACTIONS were the same as Moore's.
But the bottom line is that it is the folks in MN who will decide whether Al's conduct renders him unacceptable to serve as their Senator. The rest of us are just spouting off our opinions.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)radical noodle
(8,000 posts)LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)But sexual misconduct is horrible no matter who does it. And, not to diminish this incident with Franken, but 2 friends young sons were taken advantage of by their teachers over the last decade that I know personally. One was 13 and the other going on 15 when these incidents happened when they were students in their different middle-schools (Both young men are in their 20's now, 1 married with a son, the oldest married--no kids). It's sad that in my somewhat "limited" universe that I know 2 young men who were taken advantage of sexually by their female teachers, who by the way ONLY received house arrest and probation The young men were saddened, and their parents were livid, and they STILL aren't happy all these years later as you could imagine. With years of counseling, the young men have been able to "somewhat" move on from what happened, and I say somewhat because I've seen and interacted with both over the years and saw one of the young men with his son about 4 months ago (He calls me Auntie) because I was over his parents house visiting when he stopped by with his son. As for the teachers, the parents have heard through the grapevine that both are looking forward to being removed from the sexual offenders registry come 2021 (Gov Brown :eyes even though in their 40's, and married with teenage children. To say that a sexual misconduct/abuse incident was MINOR enough to get some offenders off the sexual offender registry is ridiculous. Like I said, both young men STILL talk about what happened to them all these years later--all victims of sexual abuse of course never, ever forget about it. IMHO, there would be nothing in MY mind that would have me saying that any incident of sexual misconduct was "minor" enough to get an offender off of any sexual offender registry.
Response to SHRED (Original post)
madaboutharry This message was self-deleted by its author.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Response to SHRED (Original post)
tenderfoot This message was self-deleted by its author.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,355 posts)Pretty sure you can do better than this.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)sarisataka
(18,656 posts)Enjoys it and is asking for it.
Slut shaming also crosses party lines
Sanity Claws
(21,849 posts)I don't think there is any touching.
B2G
(9,766 posts)him shoving his tongue into her mouth too.
oasis
(49,388 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)either ignoring or ignorant to. Abusive men do not fly an ideological flag over their head. We know this and it has been discussed here at length. Ohhh how I miss redqueen and seabeyond.
Grammy23
(5,810 posts)If true (and my doubts, if I had any, evaporated when I saw that picture), means we need to take a good, hard look at our culture that has condoned and laughed at this kind of behavior, no matter who did it. This is not just on one side or the other. It is pervasive in our society and only recently has anyone seriously questioned whether it is right.
We can easily point the finger if the perpetrator is someone we dont mind accusing. tRump was an easy target because we already didnt like him for his jackass personality but to add on sleezebag to the list of names to call him was icing on the cake. Now that were faced with one of our favored politicians being not only accused, but being provided with a picture of him humiliating this woman, it demands that we drop the pretense that it is only people on the other side who do this shit.
The rubber meets the road here, folks. We face the truth about it, or we fold our tent and just forget about confronting it at all. If we want to be hypocrites about it, guess we can give a Franken a pass and excuse his bad behavior as just a joke. Or we can be honest, come to the table ready to admit the sins are many and are part of our culture. Period. No one side is infected with it. There is plenty to go around.
So what will it be? Excuses and lots of hemming and hawing? Or grow up, man up and try to fix this mess. Starting with the truth...for once.
Morris64
(78 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,355 posts)I encourage people to imagine Trump in that same pose and to honestly assess whether they would respond the same way. Jesus Christ.
OnDoutside
(19,957 posts)justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)This picture does not show groping but it DOES show sexual harassment.
Again, I think getting the terminology correct is very important. There are tons of women who dont have photographic proof of being groped and if we equate a photo that doesnt actually show groping as proof of groping, then how can we convince people that groping occurred when there isnt a photo?
Shoving his tongue down her throat is assault but what is happening in that photo is not and Im not claiming that he didnt touch her once the photo had been snapped, that could have happened but the photo does bear fruit of that allegation.
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)This comes across as more like a sad attempt at humor (the kind some guys think is hilarious) rather than the level of sexual assault in Cosby, Weinstein, Louis CK et al
The skit was poor humor with the kiss, the pic of him "groping" her (he is barely touching her and seems to be mugging for the camera...like when guys draw dicks in Sharpie on friends who pass out).. this is shit that is embarrassing and humiliating for women that a lot of men don't understand.
Al's love for Frannie seems so sincere and so real, I find it hard to believe it's anything more than stupid lame ass humor. I mean if your plan is sexual assault...would you really do it on a plane in front of a bunch of witness (some who would kick your ass)?
That doesn't make it ok and it doesn't mean he shouldn't own it and apologize. I just don't find it on the same level of isolating a woman in a hotel room or drugging her.
B2G
(9,766 posts)and shoved his tongue in her mouth.
Good Christ.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)I can help you with that. The answer is no.
Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #78)
Post removed
forthemiddle
(1,379 posts)Just saying.........
We believe Anita Hill, but we don't believe Juanita Broderick?
We believe the worst about Roy Moore, but feel that George Takei's accuser is lying.....
We think George HW Bush is a perv, but we never, ever say anything about some of the uncomfortable Biden pictures.....
Now I personally don't think that he meant to be anything but funny in this picture, but be honest and tell me how different this thread would be if it was Ted Cruz?
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)You don't think it makes me cringe when on the one hand Biden championed the Violence Against Women Act and on the other hand his weird touching of women?
You don't think it makes me sick to think how much I looked up to Bill Clinton as the first president I could vote for only to find out at best he's a womanizer at worst he's guilty of sexual assault?
I 100% believe that this photo by Franken was in poor taste and a gross attempt at humor.
I'm not sure about the forced kiss. His election against Coleman was so ugly and nasty, they threw everything at him but never did I hear anything about him having a pattern of harassing women. Inappropriate jokes yes. The difference between that and Trumps locker room talk is he admitted to assualting women.
If it turns out there has been a pattern of this behavior from Franken like with Moore and Trump, then I will call Franken and tell him to resign as my senator.
No one is perfect... if I could honestly say I have never done anything inappropriate in my lame attempts at humor when I was younger (including racist, sexist,homophobic remarks) or if I have never touched a man inappropriately then maybe I could take your moral high ground.
But I can't. I also weigh the good someone has done vs the bad.
I can't honestly say that if Obamacare was hanging by one vote, and Moore said if elected he would swing for Obamacare even against party pressure I would be less upset about him being elected.
I can't do purity tests.
forthemiddle
(1,379 posts)And I think I agree almost 100% with everything you wrote.
If anyone here can look back at their own past and not remember a really bad joke that seemed funny at the time, then they are much better people than me!
I don't think the picture was meant to be anything but unappropriately funny, but I must admit that I am very upset about the kiss part of it though.... it just seems credible, and I hate that....
OnDoutside
(19,957 posts)He doesn't remember the rehearsal in the same way, but apologizes to her.
The photo was meant to be funny, and he shouldn't have done it.
Link to tweet
Greybnk48
(10,168 posts)I believe Al Franken.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029849565
Response to Greybnk48 (Reply #57)
WinkyDink This message was self-deleted by its author.
Vinca
(50,273 posts)Things need to be taken in context. It will be interesting to hear the recollections of other people on the tour. If I had been the woman in the photo, I would have asked for an autographed copy. Wonder if she might have. But, the GOP now has their scapegoat and they seem to think this balances the scales with Pedo Moore.
Response to Vinca (Reply #98)
WinkyDink This message was self-deleted by its author.
Thrill
(19,178 posts)Response to Thrill (Reply #65)
WinkyDink This message was self-deleted by its author.
KPN
(15,646 posts)it's no doubt going to hound Franken going forward. I had a strong feeling we'd start to see this coming out on our side as well. Alpha males are alpha males. It's not a party thing, and it seems many alpha males feel entitled to this sort of behavior.
As a male myself, I'm thinking, yeah, we need a hell of a lot more women in office and key positions.
kentuck
(111,098 posts)Said he did not remember the rehearsal "kiss"...
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)is the classic "He said--She said."
Yupster
(14,308 posts)He said he didn't remember the rehearsal the same way she did. Lots of wiggle room there.
romana
(765 posts)And his statement was weak. We need to demand better because there is just no excuse for this kind of behavior from any man.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)It can't be ignored. I think that is the level of response that this level of harassment rises to in, and it is a very serious blot on his public record if that happens. He is done regarding seeking higher office. Perhaps he is done in terms of being reelected. But removing him from the Senate for this behavior seems like a judgement the voters should probably make. Brace ourselves folks. There will be more powerful men identified engaged in this type of behavior, on both sides of the aisle. It can't be swept under the rug. The degree of punishment should track with the severity of the offense - and yes that is wide open to debate.
We are at a defining moment in terms of gender relations. There must be accountability for the past. At the same time now the bar must be raised again. Moving forward there should be a zero tolerance policy. All men who abuse their power and position in this way have now been forewarned.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Just because the GOP can get away with electing Trump with these issues does not mean we dems get a pass. I agree with you
moda253
(615 posts)We are in the colosseum and the attendants demand their blood. Exposing people is one thing but as a society we are doing jack shit to change societal behavior. It is good that people are paying the price for what they did but if that's where it ends nothing is going to change. Impulse is impulse and it happens without regard to punishment.
Want to see actual change in relationships between men/women minorities/whites? start making things happen that put them on equal playing fields in terms of pay, leadership, respect and then you will see these relationships change.
Exposing is a start but it means nothing if it is just political weaponry.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)The "I don't recall" excuse is weak sauce.
I hope he reached out directly to her to apologize rather than solely via statement.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)Given that women in the military are raped at an alarming rate, they shouldn't have to put up with USO people groping them as well
I'm almost speechless
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #101)
Post removed
Leith
(7,809 posts)I don't know if rethugs will find any more accusations against Senator Franken, but you can bet your last dollar that there will be more accusations against more Democrats. Smearing is what they do best.
You better believe that they are digging into the backgrounds of Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Cory Booker, Adam Schiff, Ted Lieu, Joaquin Castro, and every other well known, charismatic, and/or powerful Democratic man (or who caucuses with the Democratic side). This is just beginning.
Fasten your seatbelts.
Response to Leith (Reply #103)
maryellen99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to SHRED (Original post)
Skittles This message was self-deleted by its author.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Well, I knew just by the law of averages some of our people were going to get caught up in this....
Response to SHRED (Original post)
WinkyDink This message was self-deleted by its author.