NEW/Updated: Statement From Al Franken:

[kpete]

Last edited Thu Nov 16, 2017, 02:02 PM - Edit history (2)

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[lamp_shade]

1. I'm glad he kept it short and simple.

[Lucinda]

2. Thankie

[monmouth4]

3. Good enough for me..n/t

[HipChick]

7. me too

[VermontKevin]

4. It's not enough.

[OnDoutside]

9. Not enough sackcloth and ashes ?

[VermontKevin]

11. A press release is not enough.

[OnDoutside]

18. I'm sure there will be more, but this is a good appropriate start. Fox/Brietbart will be all over

this.

[NCTraveler]

15. Those are the only options?

[OnDoutside]

23. Public Flogging ? Death by Lethal injection ? Sentenced to life in Alabama ?

[NCTraveler]

30. I do appreciate the laugh.

[OnDoutside]

32. ;)

[David__77]

69. Sentenced to life in Alabama!

I love it! Thank you!

[NCTraveler]

12. I agree.

He is one of my favorites. I expected a bit more. He dismissed it without dismissing it.

[VermontKevin]

20. He humiliated her with that picture.

And I believe her when she describes the groping.

[NCTraveler]

24. I'm not sure I'm willing to make that assumption.

I am more inclined to considering his response.

[Ms. Toad]

51. She didn't describe groping - she described seeing the photo

The photo is what it is, but she did not describe experiencing groping beyond anything visible in the photo.

Obviously wrong, but also obviously a crude attempt at humor.

[VermontKevin]

56. Read the rehearsal allegation.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

64. I read the rehearsal allegation and I see the picture of the alleged "groping"

Judging by the photo, I can see she has a bit of a credibility problem. If that is groping then I'm the King of Prussia. He's not even touching her.

This is political bull shit from a Fox News Hannity panelist.

It's tasteless attempt at humor. Reason number one why I used to tell people who worked for me in my office why you never fuck around with this type of stuff.

What you may have thought was funny at the time, and maybe got some laughs, won't age well if someone wants to make an issue out of it,

[Ms. Toad]

82. I did. I read her entire statement before I responded to you.

The rehearsal assertion is that he french kissed her without consent - after pressuring her repeatedly to practice the skit. Wholly inappropriate, without consent, but not groping.

She did not describe groping, beyond what is shown in the photo - which appears to me a wholly inappropriate attempt at a crude sexual joke, but without more - I do not concur with her assessment that the photo shows groping.

[DetlefK]

16. What is there left to say?

He remembers it differently, he's sorry, he admits it wasn't funny.

What's missing? Should he resign or something like that? For something which he doesn't remember and for which so far no further witnesses have come forward?

[VermontKevin]

21. "I resign."

[BannonsLiver]

26. Nyet.

[OnDoutside]

29. Oooh.

[VermontKevin]

34. Volk v ovech'yey shkurye. It knows no political bounds.

[BannonsLiver]

38. Uh huh

How's the weather in Moldova these days?

[DetlefK]

37. Why?

That's the only possible way he could atone for what he supposedly did or didn't do?
Just flat-out resigning?



Reminds me of a discussion here on DU. It was a few years ago: Some people had the opinion that if a man gropes a woman, she has every right to respond in any way she likes, including straight-up killing him. (I'm not making this up. This is what DUers were pleading for.) I asked them if that's over-the-top, but I never got a clear answer.

[NCTraveler]

27. "something which he doesn't remember"

Please read his statement before commenting as to it's content.

[DetlefK]

41. I beg your pardon. He DOES remember it. Differently than how she describes it.

[NCTraveler]

42. Thank you.

Not a minor difference. Specially the way you used it as a main point.

[maxrandb]

78. For some on the "left"

what's missing is that we must believe EVERY accusation, EVERY TIME, and should castrate any that are accused, even if the accusation comes down to "we were in a sketch where we were supposed to kiss...AND HE KISSED ME Outrageous! I've never been so objectified in my life (please ignore my half nude pictures all over the internet, and the fact that I worked on the Hannity Show)...it's outrageous and demeaning that a man would kiss me just because it's in a script we both agreed to do"...we must elect purist Retrumplicans to punish the accused

For the "right" what's missing is; "hey, this is just as bad as a 38 year old man molesting 14 year old girls, and is clearly as bad as bragging about grabbing women's genitals. Clearly, we must consider this behavior as perfectly acceptable in our elected leaders if someone from the other side kissed a woman during a comedy sketch"

What's missing from this is simple; if asked to choose between Franken and Leeann to be a champion of women's equality, rights and protection from harassment in the workplace, you'd choose Franken every time, and it wouldn't even be close.

We simply must stop doing this to ourselves. Unless there is a pattern of this. Unless there is way more to this story than the account of a right-wing Hannity staffer. Unless there is pattern of harassment and sexual abuse of women that Franken has come in contact with over the years, this should be treated as nothing but a right-wing hatchet job.

If there is evidence that Franken harasses and abuses women, I will be the FIRST to demand he step down, or face prosecution if appropriate. I, however, WILL NOT participate in the character assassination of Franken based on the story of a Hannity staffer.

I recently saw a wildly popular film by a major Hollywood Studio. The actors seemed to be clothed for approximately 10% of the entire film. I guess the actors could claim they were "groped", but I think I would look at that charge with a critical eye.

[smirkymonkey]

104. Hear, hear!

He acted foolishly, but until more evidence comes out that Franken has a pattern of sexually harassing and abusing women, I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt. This just doesn't come across as anything more than a diversion tactic and a way to smear a powerful, liberal politician.

[LanternWaste]

25. Then precisely what reaction is warranted?

Then precisely what reaction is warranted, and on what precedent is that based?

[VermontKevin]

31. At the minimum, a public, personal apology for taking such a picture.

Not a press release. That picture is inappropriate and humiliating.

[lame54]

87. willing to be investigated is not enough?...

what would be enough?

[VermontKevin]

92. His initial public statement was not enough, and apparently the Senator agreed with me.

[BannonsLiver]

5. Works for me. Thank you, Senator.

Some of these "not enough" comments are priceless.

[tonyt53]

6. The only thing I can say about this is that he admitted some interaction at least.

He didn't go into that "I have no idea who that is". This isn't a Democrat or Republican problem. It is a national problem that is a disgrace to us all.

[Freethinker65]

8. Not enough. How DOES he remember the rehearsal?

I see he is careful not to call her a liar. He is playing it smart, but he either used his tongue if/when she was hesitant to rehearse in the first place, or he did not.

[jberryhill]

101. He has asked for an investigation

And will probably provide his recollection in the course of that investigation.

[Freethinker65]

103. Thanks. I posted this earlier in the day, before I saw his longer response.

The longer response was more than satisfactory. He requested the ethics review, and from his letter I know he will be able to provide his memory of the events without disparaging his accuser(s).

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

10. Lame... sorry. Nothing funny about sexual assault... but, hey, that's just me.

[maxrandb]

80. There's something funny about seeing an obviously staged photo

and equating that to "sexual assault".

Are Leeaan's half-nude provocative photos that are all over the internet also examples of "sexual assault" to you?

I don't know, they made me feel kind of "dirty". She obviously "sexually assaulted" me. Call a lawyer, or Faux News!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. I'm disappointed in Al. Let's hope this wasn't a pattern.

If he aspired to higher office those aspirations are moribund.

[Grammy23]

14. What else could he say?

That photo (whether he is actually touching her or not) was intended to humiliate her and get a laugh...at her expense. It was a cheap laugh but maybe not so cheap now. And of course, he won’t remember the rehearsal like she does. Who has proof one way or the other? If there were no witnesses, and apparently there weren’t any, it is he said/she said. But that photo speaks for itself. And for all you claiming it is “photoshopped”, I refer you to HIS statement where he says he shouldn’t have done it. I think that should stop all the hand wringing and wishful thinking that it was a doctored photo.

[lame54]

39. It's not doctored...

But he is not touching her

It's a class-less photo that will haunt him but it doesn't prove he groped her

[Freethinker65]

57. I think the photo intended to find humor in copping a feel through a flak jacket

I do not think he gave much thought to the particular woman wearing it, much less to humiliate her.
I suppose, if one wanted to, arguments could be made that in itself is a bigger problem with the sophomoric photo.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. He could do better.

[Greybnk48]

19. I believe him 100%.

This is a right wing hit job.

[BannonsLiver]

22. As do I

I'm paying close attention to the "not enough" crowd. As we all should be. This smells of rotten, right wing fish.

[Aimee in OKC]

60. A right-wing hit job, it's a 3-fer ... Distraction from Moore & GOP activities, click-driving

media frenzy to stir up the base, and a pre-emptive smear of a potential candidate for President.

Breitbart 'broke' it first, per Google around 1:30 am CST and the RW sites started piling on pretty quickly to hit people checking morning news.

https://nypost.com/2017/11/16/playmate-says-al-franken-groped-her/amp/


Cannonfire (who also posts here at DU) called it on Tuesday that Franken would likely be targeted:

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2017/11/a-few-things.html?m=1

[smirkymonkey]

105. I am thinking the same thing.

I did not react defensively when the Anthony Wiener accusations started flying because they seemed like they would be in character for him, even though I knew that the GOP wanted to take him down. As it turned out, they were true. This just doesn't sound like something that is in Franken's character. Stupid, sexist hi-jinx? Yes. Poor judgement? Yes. Sexual assault or a pattern of being a sexual harasser or worse? No.

[underthematrix]

28. I thought the photo was meant to be funny too.

Let's don't get distracted.

[VermontKevin]

36. Funny to the asleep woman?

[writes3000]

46. Do you think shes actually sleeping in that chair? Really?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

48. Do you think she's not? Really?

[VermontKevin]

50. Yes.

[underthematrix]

70. I'm not saying it was appropriate. It's in poor taste.

But it does not constitute sexual harassment. It's just stupid and inappropriate.

[Eliot Rosewater]

76. Not asleep, it is a skit. She is lying.

[AncientGeezer]

79. That's not part of the skit..it's the flight home.

[JaneQPublic]

33. "Sorry" and ""I don't remember" and "Just trying to be funny"

Apologies don't mean much when they're offered only after getting caught.

And it's rather ironic Franken is using the "don't remember" defense after so much was made of Sessions overuse of that same defense.

The "I was just trying to be funny" defense is no more valid than the "It was just locker room talk" defense.

I really don't know how Al can make this right. It's so depressing.

[Freethinker65]

45. He did not say he did not remember the rehearsal

He said he remembered it differently (but rather conveniently did not explain in what way his memory was different). He said this to avoid calling his accuser a liar (which could be politically damaging) but also to avoid telling his version (which may, or may not be, politically damaging). For me, his response on the rehearsal was inadequate.

The photo was obviously posed for and at the time he thought it was funny. It was not. His answer for the photo for me was sufficient.

[JaneQPublic]

52. His answer for me is NOT sufficient.

But ultimately, it will be his constituents in MN who will decide.

[Hortensis]

35. Leeann Tweeden is very right wing, with a somewhat different

history than those of the women who are claiming molestation by Moore.

I'm posting this picture of Hannity-type, tea party conservative LeeAnn Tweeden because it goes directly to her credibility.



Of course, no matter what's in her history, that would not excuse what she claims if it is true. I just find the account of this supposed victim who was immediately presented on Fox somewhat lacking in credibility.

Btw, anyone notice a certain difference between her particularly prurient description of her extra-violated disgust, etc., having to go wash the taste of him out of her mouth, etc., and the more restrained descriptions of the women who reported Trump's sexual assaults?

[VermontKevin]

40. Wow. Just wow. I am shocked at your post.

[Hortensis]

44. Lol. I just bet you are. Don't like THIS picture as much?

I posted it because it goes directly to the credibility of this accuser. And I said, there are many, many more out there for you to dislike.

Funny thing is, I bet if Fox had chummed even one good-sized evangelical church they would have found a woman with a more conventional background who was willing to make these claims about the Democratic congressman or senator of Fox's choice.

[VermontKevin]

47. I didn't click on that picture. The only picture that matters is the one Franken took.

You know, the one with the sleeping, non-consenting woman.

[Hortensis]

54. They're both worth 1000 words, including the pretend grope,

when when she's asleep and can't signify willingness, join in any jokes, is definitely out of line.

?

[Ms. Toad]

90. Message: See - here's the good girl. We can believe her when she says she didn't consent.

In contrast to the other slut, whose photo you posted above, who couldn't possibly have been offended, or shocked, or disgusted, when a peer kissed her without consent.

[Hortensis]

91. Even more complication, the photographer says they were

all fooling around (Ms. Tweeden's photo, not Ms.Nelson's) and that Ms. Tweeden was playing dead while inviting Franken to resuscitate her. There were apparently others present, so perhaps others will speak up.

Besides Franken, who, these days a senator trying to rescue his nation from those trying to destroy it from inside and out, now deplores and apologizes for his own behaviors.

[Ms. Toad]

93. I was addressing your messaging. nt

[Hortensis]

94. Al Franken has called for an ethics probe of himself.

Sadly for those of us who liked, and genuinely respected, the 2006 fun political comedian Franken with presumably looser boundaries, he's serious.

On the humorous side, he's serious, totally willing to be investigated.

Sadly all over again, it's very doubtful the dark-money forces and their congressional tools will agree to all that media exposure for both one of their most vigorous enemies and for this particular subject, which they badly need gone. They're also more "race out of the alleys with knives" sorts.

Link to tweet

[Ms. Toad]

95. I was addressing your slut-shaming messaging. n/t

[Hortensis]

96. And yet you're the one using that ugly word and term.

Do you really think you should be promoting them? Maybe put them both away, for life? Take the pledge.

[Ms. Toad]

97. I'm accurately labeling what you have done in this thread

by posting a half-naked, sexually suggestive, photo of Franken's accuser and by repeatedly insisting that the photo is relevant to her credibility.

I am using that term, because subtle (and some not-so-subtle) attempts to get you to understand what you are doing are not making a dent. You seem to need to be figuratively hit over the head with a 2x4 in order to understand that equating a half-naked, sexually suggestive photo of Franken's accuser with her credibility implies you believe she is a lying slut. Especially when you subsequently post - by way of comparison - a prim and proper photo of Moore's accuser.

The link you are repeatedly trying to make is precisely the reason there are rape shield laws - to prevent rapists from painting their accusers as lying sluts. Appearance and past sexual behavior have NOTHING to do with credibility of a witnesses' account of what happened on a specific date with a specific person. You have repeatedly insisted that it does.

[Hortensis]

98. Ms. Toad, feedback from a real, lifelong feminist,

different viewpoint evidently.

I don't think I've used that ugly word in 50 years, not even when it supposedly became stylish for women to call their friends that. That's because I am a feminist and in my bones I don't believe in what it implies. Our rights to live our lives as we wish, just like men's, stop where other people's noses begin but otherwise are pretty much unlimited.

Reminds me that I've also never in my life said, "I'm not a feminist, but..."

Toad, what you need to understand is that feminism is not license to attack men viciously for absolutely anything that displeases some woman while letting women get away with even the shabbiest behaviors if they seem somehow gender or sex related.

Which this one does.

Now, I repeat, I believe you should retire that ugly word. From what I've read today, I'm guessing you're the only one here using it.

[Ms. Toad]

99. You're not reading the threads very carefully - it is there by many other posters

condemning the kind of connections you have made repeatedly in this thread.

FWIW, I suspect my femisist credentials are every bit as strong as yours.

I am not suggesting she has license to attack men viciously for absolutely anything.

But no feminist I have ever met would ever suggest that half-naked, sexually suggestive photos have ANY relevance as to the credibility of that person's allegation that someone touched her without consent. And that is exactly what you have done, repeatedly.

She may well be lying through her teeth - but the photo you posted, and repeatedly insisted cast doubt on her credibilty has absolutely no relevance to that assessment.

It is not the word that is ugly, it is the concept you are endorsing that I am calling slut-shaming - that behavior on any other occasion or appearance at any time have any relation to consent that is truly ugly. Despite numerous people in this thread calling you on it, you have neither acknowledged it nor offered any alternative explanation for the link you are making. I am not calling her a slut, I am calling out your behavior becuase, while you are not using the word, you have used the concept as a weapon against this accuser.

Not believing her doesn't call your feminist credentials into question. Suggesting her credibility is linked to her appearance or behavior on any other occasion or with any other perons is the antithesis of feminism.

Before you can legitimately claim the feminist label, you need to retire the concept that an accuser's credibility is, in any way, called into question by what she is wearing or how she has behaved at any other time or with any other person.

[Hortensis]

100. Well, end of this. You either get it or you don't.

[Ms. Toad]

102. In other words,

you're still not about to acknowledge or offer a different explanation for your repeated anti-feminist assertsions that a half-naked sexually suggestive photo of a woman is relevant to the credibilty of an accusation she has made that, on a different occasion, she was touched without her consent.

There are rape shield laws for a reason: because you're not the only one who believes that trash.

[Kirk Lover]

67. Non consenting to what...he wasn't touching her. Now if he did put his hands on her

then yes it's a different story. It was obviously a joke. Just because you don't find it funny still does not make it was it was intended to be... A JOKE.

[Hortensis]

84. I agree. The photo shows he was "groping" air.

And almost certainly it was normal enough behavior for that group that spent a lot of long hours together, a nothing-burger at the moment.

But at best it was vulgar and unseemly, and, who knows, maybe she was offended when she saw it.
In any case, it definitely is not passing the picture-surfacing-years-later test. He's no dummy, and no hypocritical Roy Moore. He knows it.

[MichMary]

61. "the credibility of this accuser?"

Really? Slut shaming? The look-at-what-she-was-wearing rape defense.

[Hortensis]

63. This goes to truth, not her sex life, which is not mentioned.

Her description of her disgust seems more tahn a little overblown for a person with an extensive background working in the light porn industry.

The costs run up by stopping production every time some guy grabbed her bottom or whatever and she had to run off to recover from the shock would have killed that career very fast.

[Roland99]

62. Nice victim blaming

[Hortensis]

66. I don't think there is a victim, except for the intended one of course.

The vulgar photo taken of her and Franken was obviously nonconsensual, we can agree on that.

[Kirk Lover]

68. You may find those pictures vulgar but plenty do not. I don't think that should

effect her credibility. I find it more curious who she has associated with and what she has said in the past. Her affiliation with far right people is much much more telling.

[Hortensis]

86. I MEANT the airplane picture with Sen. Franken

that I was talking about. I suspect most people would find that vulgar.

As for what behaviors suggest about where people "are coming from," that's always very subjective isn't it?

Jesus's virgin mother for the second coming, should there be one, may earn a living, albeit perhaps a similarly easily distressed one, doing soft porn. It's honest work, a way of making a living, and I'm sure there are very nice and very honest women in the business. I was even casually acquainted with a few over the years we lived in Hollywood. However, ones who currently make their living peddling right-wing political lies are ruled out for that last.

[Ms. Toad]

88. It does NOT go to her credibilty.

Nothing in that photo (or the surrounding text) indicates she consented to being kissed or having Franken create a crude photo of him touching/attempting to touch her breasts.

She could be naked, spread-eagled on the page, with statements that she welcomed all comers - and it still has NOTHING to do with her credibility when she says she did not consent to Franken kissing her or taking the photo.

You are slut-shaming her. It is the very reason the rape-shield laws were put into place - because far too many attorneys for rapists tried to use consent in other situations to cast doubt on the credibility of women's assertions that they did not consent in that specific instance.

[Dawson Leery]

43. Fox is desperate to deflect away from Moore.

[Madam45for2923]

65. Well that could backfire for them. If Franken got to go Moore got to not even RUN

[WhiskeyGrinder]

49. You can do better than this.

[Hortensis]

75. No, I really can't. TRUTH MATTERS.

The backgrounds and character of all the women who accuse Moore are being extensively investigated in an attempt to evaluate the likelihood that they are speaking truth. WaPo initially sent 10 investigative reporters to Alabama for that. The first four particularly all passed extensive editorial scrutiny before that story was published.

Tweeden went from 0 to maximum right-wing spraying of these accusations. Why would she be exempt from scrutiny, even if it's after Fox's "fact"?

Btw, all or virtually all the Alabama women are Republicans accusing a Republican candidate.

Ms. Tweeden has a history of being a strong, tea-party, Hannity-type conservative and is attacking a Democrat.

[Ms. Toad]

89. What on earth does a half-naked photo of her have to do with her political beliefs?

Or with whether, in this instance, she is telling the truth?

[smirkymonkey]

106. +1000

[Roland99]

59. Her posing for anything in a provocative manner does not excuse non consensual contact

[Hortensis]

73. +1000. But it does undermine her credibility in describing

her reaction. The typical high school girl these days would not be as shocked and upset as Ms. Tweeden claims to have been, even if genuinely as disgusted as being claimed.

[cwydro]

81. Ha!

Thanks for posting this!

[Ezior]

85. Even acting in a porno would not make it okay to grope her

Now the question is: Did Al Franken really do something improper without consent? His response does not answer my questions.

He remembers it differently. Does he remember the interaction to be consensual? Does he remember a completely different interaction where consent doesn't matter because he didn't kiss / touch her in inappropriate ways?

All of those question are completely indepent of wheter or not she's a right-winger, a Trumper, or likes to undress in front of cameras.

[nolabear]

53. Ill wait to see what he does and if theres a pattern.

I can’t help but be amused a little at the shock being felt, and I understand the pent up outrage being unleashed. If men don’t think this is ubiquitous, crosses all lines and women have put up with it in order to survive since time began, that shows you what a difference there is between the lives of men and women. Now I wonder what will be demanded of the many, many, many men who will be outed, because the halls of power are going to echo with emptiness.

[Orsino]

55. You can't apologize for what you're not admitting you did.

His memory failure sounds like a partial denial.

[Kirk Lover]

71. He said he remembers it just fine, but differently. I really want to hear how he forced her to kiss

him. That was the headline...Franken kissed and groped ....and now I'm hearing well he made me uncomfortable...he wanted to practice this kiss. He faux groped me....really I want to hear more details.

I'm sorry but far right folks take a nugget of truth and then tell a bunch of lies and extremely misleading statements. I'm also hearing she is fact a far righter.

[eissa]

74. Great statement by Al

Talk about a nothing burger

[Not Ruth]

77. That picture is bad optics

[workinclasszero]

83. This is good

Unless there's a pattern and other incidents of course.

I certainly hope not.

[rocktivity]

107. Foo-kin-bee-YOO-tee-ful!!!

He's apologizing for POSING for the groping pic, acting inappropriately in the name of professional comedy (NOT male privilege), and causing Tweeden to feel violated. And he's calling for an investigation for the same reason why Tweeden was so quick to accept his apology: they both know that an investigation will be a waste of time -- time better invested in investigating Rethuglicans who accused of doing a lot worse.

He's playing Prez Duh Donald AND the media like a grand piano.


rocktivity