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Tommy_Carcetti

(43,182 posts)
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:06 PM Nov 2017

Re: Fox's attempt to Whatabout the Moore allegations with old allegations regararding Bill Clinton

First, I'm just going to assume they aren't referring to Lewinsky or Flowers, both of which involved consensual actions between two adults. That is completely irrelevant.

Rather, I'm just going to assume they are referring to the claims of three other women, namely Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey and Juanita Broaddrick.

As it pertains to Moore, it is blatant whataboutism and still completely irrelevant, but you know what? Fine. Let's have that conversation.

Jones, Willey and Broaddrick had allegations to make, and they made them. As anyone who has alleged to have been the victim of sexual harassment, impropriety or assault, they have a right to have their claims considered and investigated in good faith, free of initial judgment or condemnation.

That does not mean, however, that once their claims have been looked into, they can continue to be shielded from scrutiny. And that applies regardless if one is Democrat, Republican, Bill Clinton or Roy Moore.

Paula Jones made her accusations public in 1994; Wiley in 1998 and Broaddrick in 1999. Their stories have been available for years now, and all three allegations were picked up by the media once they had been reported.

There was investigations by special counsel of all three women's allegations against President Clinton. There were glaring discrepancies in testimony given by both Willey and Broaddrick to the point neither were considered reliable. In fact, Broaddrick even denied under oath ever being assaulted but then contradicted herself at a later date. Willey strangely alleged that President Clinton's unwanted touchings occurred on the same exact day her husband committed suicide.

As for Paula Jones' claims--which were slightly less severe than those of Willey or Broaddrick but if true would still be disturbing--the involvement from the very get-go of right wing organizations with a notorious record on the truth pushing her lawsuit for political purposes at the very least raises eyebrows. And the fact that all three women have continued to utilize ultra-right wing organizations to perpetuate their allegations in the years following making them should also call into question motives and veracity.

Roger Stone (a highly disturbed man who ought to be trusted by absolutely no one) paid for all three women to repeat their stories in 2016 in front of cameras while sitting right next to Donald Trump, a man who openly bragged on video tape about having desires to grab women "by their pussies." Broaddrick has since attacked the women who have raised allegations against Judge Moore.

If these women were genuinely victims of sexual harassment or assault, why the lack of empathy towards other possible victims? And why the willingness to get down in the partisan political dirt rather than framing what supposedly happened to them as beyond politics?

Because sexual harassment and assault is definitely not a partisan political matter.

And further more, we are dealing with three allegations that were made no sooner than eighteen years ago. In those subsequent 18 years, there has not been further corroboration of their stories. They stand as they are, either to be believed or not. But it's past the point of news.

The women who have recently made their allegations against Judge Moore have only come out recently in their claims. Perhaps they are telling the truth. Perhaps they aren't. Perhaps they are motivated by politics. Perhaps they aren't. Like Jones, Willey and Broaddrick they deserve to have their claims taken in good faith upon the onset, but they must also not be exempt from further scrutiny as to their veracity and any possible countering motives should they come to light.

As for Fox and the right's own motives in the matter, I can only assume there's an attempt to create a scenario of political Mutually Assured Destruction: You go after one of ours (Moore), we'll retaliate by going after one of yours (Clinton). Which means that any further retaliatory moves means that all allegations against Donald Trump are on the table. But I don't think we even need to go there at this point. This isn't a war game. These are all serious allegations that deserve both honest scrutiny of accuser and accused.

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Re: Fox's attempt to Whatabout the Moore allegations with old allegations regararding Bill Clinton (Original Post) Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2017 OP
Interesting that they conveniently skipped over accusations against current POTUS Freethinker65 Nov 2017 #1
a war game greymattermom Nov 2017 #2
Willey underpants Nov 2017 #3
Also... none of them alleged incidents when they were MINORS. sfwriter Nov 2017 #4
No, although that wouldn't excuse any of them ***IF THEY WERE TRUE*** Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2017 #5
There's also one other glaring difference hurple Nov 2017 #6
Thank-you for your post happy feet Nov 2017 #7

underpants

(182,807 posts)
3. Willey
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:13 PM
Nov 2017

Nothing came of that because no one in Capital Square in Richmond wanted her to be deposed. Sad to say but the standard defense is to attack the accuser and many names were probably going to come up. Second hand info at the time from a good source.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,182 posts)
5. No, although that wouldn't excuse any of them ***IF THEY WERE TRUE***
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:22 PM
Nov 2017

And I can't stress the last part any stronger.

For the record, my line of work involves assisting people who have alleged sexual harassment and assault. I'm not coming from this from a cavalier position. But facts of allegations have to be properly weighed and measured. Wanting something to be true, or wanting something not to be true, is not in any way dispositive.

hurple

(1,306 posts)
6. There's also one other glaring difference
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 12:47 PM
Nov 2017

Clinton is not now, nor ever again going to run for political office, and these allegations came out after he was already elected.

Moore is currently running.

happy feet

(869 posts)
7. Thank-you for your post
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 02:15 PM
Nov 2017

I 'knew' this but hadn't done the work to collect the facts into a cogent thought. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

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