Al Franken is the most intelligent and honest human being in our government.

[Eliot Rosewater]

If he says he forced his tongue down her throat, then I will know he did that.

If he did that he would admit it now, so he didnt.

You see there is a difference between rightwing liars who attack women and liberals like Al who DON'T lie and ALWAYS try to do the right thing.

Go ahead, find me a lie Al told.

We could go on all day here with lies from Hannity or trump or moore or mcconnell or ryan, not Franken.

[Stuart G]

1. I agree, Franken does not lie.

I listened to him years ago on the radio..I think it was called "Air America" He had a coast to coast radio show, and I think it was live radio. I never got the impression that he lied about anything ever.

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. Yeah, it is one thing to lie about the size of the fish you caught and

entirely different to lie about sexual assault.

[Marengo]

2. The veracity of a claim is automatically in question based on political orientation?

[Inkfreak]

27. Yes. That is the theme today.

[MFM008]

37. or her ties to the right wing

an investigation will show if she may have a motive.

[Marengo]

39. If it happened, it happened. Her political orientation and motive for her exposing it is...

Irrelevant.

[MFM008]

60. Wrong

Very relevant.
Now she's taking her case to fox news.
Right. Nothing to see there.

[Marengo]

64. Ah, so because of her political orientation, nothing inappropriate occurred and she can be dismissed

Out of hand.

[Morris64]

68. This contributes to sexual assault. People assign guilt based one what they-

-already believed about a particular person. Sucks.

[MFM008]

69. Jake Tapper must smell

A right wing RAT.
On CNN he just asked her what she would think of someone who makes such accusations for POLITICAL GAIN.
So YES in her case her politics matter. I don't believe her.
She's exaggerating what happened and anyone who doesn't see it needs new glasses.
Oh and yes she's still the only accuser.

[Marengo]

71. Did she give consent to be the object of sexism as portrayed in the photo?

[MFM008]

73. Hopefully the

Investigation will find this out.

[BannonsLiver]

76. Horseshit.

[spotthebird]

65. The credibility of the claim is based on her demonstrable lie

It's encouraging that this is the best they have

[Marengo]

67. She gave consent and was aware of what he was doing?

[Pugster]

3. So you call the woman a liar

I see.

[PatSeg]

30. Franken has a history

of being very upfront and honest.

[awesomerwb1]

35. She's a liar.

She is.

[MFM008]

38. Im calling her a liar.

The very least an exaggeratior.
She took a picture and thought how can I make this work for our side.
My word against his.
Sorry. If it would have been a republican I would say the same thing.
Under these circumstances.

[Marengo]

40. Did she give consent for the photo to be taken as it was? Was she awake and aware?

[Pugster]

62. They're gonna call you Comrade

I said I believe the woman and two people called me comrade, suggesting I am Russian.

[Marengo]

63. LOL! Ive been called that as well, seems to indicate they have no effective counter argument

[treestar]

41. It would be absurd if we had to

take each case and always believe one party and not the other.

Yes, there is a problem with women not being believed. But that does not mean every single case is for real. Don't take it to absurd lengths where all someone has to do is accuse and that's it. That's why this is going on.

[WyLoochka]

75. Right

This new rule women that must be believed no matter what serves to encourage liars to come out of the woodwork.

[Owl]

70. Yes she is a liar.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

4. No true Scotsman isn't a very good way to go through life.

A person can be intelligent and honest and still make a dumb mistake that haunts him later.

[BootinUp]

6. It will all come out in the wash.

I recommend folks relax as there's nothing to be done other than bring witnesses and evidence.

[walkingman]

7. The levels that the GOP will go to piss people off is unbelievable. It makes

me ashamed to be a white male. The GOP can blame immigrants, people of color, women, or anyone else they like but the real problem in America is dumbass white folks. Especially the Baby Boomer generation. What the hell happened to my generation?

[SaschaHM]

8. Woah. And this is why women don't report sexual assault and/or harassment.

There's also somebody sitting on Daddy's lap ready to defend and die for his honor.

I'm not even going to get into the Franken situation, there is an ethics investigation to do that.

"If he did that he would admit it now, so he didnt."

What a crock of shit.

Presenting the facade of being a virtuous human being and being a molester is not a mutually exclusive thing. In fact, "nice guy" predators are a huge issue. Hell, Bill Cosby was self righteous as hell and an icon of virtue while he was doping and raping women.

[luvtheGWN]

49. I don't see a pattern here. Until someone else accuses Franken

of bad behaviour towards women, then I'm inclined to take him at his word.
And BTW, I doubt that more that 2% of the folks here at DU could feel totally comfortable with having their intimate lives examined. Growing up in the 60's, when we teens finally felt free enough to do some "exploration" sex-wise, I can think of a few instances I wouldn't want examined too closely. However, I can safely say that I have never been molested or assaulted, sexually or otherwise, nor have I done it to anyone else.
And I'm by no means perfect, nor anywhere close.
Judge not, lest ye be judged is something we should all bear in mind.....I think.

[NCTraveler]

9. One point of contention.

"ALWAYS try to do the right thing."

I think Franken covered that part well. We don't always understand the right thing or the repercussions of our actions at the time.

Franken is being honest and not kidding when he says he regrets it today.

It's the story behind the scene. That is the part we have to pay attention to. Without it, the picture is simply bad optics. Throwing the kissing part in is what does it. The picture visually lends voracity to next claim, whether it should or not.

[Eliot Rosewater]

12. Agree, she is alleging something happened that there is NO picture or witnesses for.

[NCTraveler]

17. Yet there is a photo, sexual in nature,...

That doesn’t say much on its own.

I appreciate his call for an ethics investigation. I would also be doing everything in my power to make sure her emails and texts are maintained. That’s what my plan would be if I we’re innocent. The call for an ethics investigation makes me think that is his plan as well.

[Eliot Rosewater]

21. Photo is of a group of people laughing about him mocking something, not ACTUALLY

touching her.

I cant believe we are talking about this, it is making me madder by the fucking second, not at you but in general

[Marengo]

26. Did she consent to that photo?

[LiberalLovinLug]

50. Of course not if she was asleep

But FFS, it was a young man's rude prank behaviour. In front of the photographer and maybe others. It was a joke that wasn't that funny. Was it juvenille? yes. It was for a laugh in front of other cohorts as comedians are always looking for. Funny or not, it was never meant as a "sexual assault". Was it embarrasing for her when she finally saw it? Probably. But this conflating of everyone from Cosby to Weinstein to Trump to Moore to Franken, to those that have violently raped women as all being guilty of of the same thing is maddening.

The Repubs know how knee jerk liberals can get so they are using our 'take no prisoners' 'with us or with the rapists' against us and are combing every male (and probably female) Democrat's past to throw them on the same bonfire and sit back with a box of popcorn and watch how we refuse to see that there are levels of sexual misconduct. Anything that is dug up from a tasteless goofy prank to violent rape we must take down....and they know it. We are so predictable.

[Marengo]

56. Young? He was 55, and you are minimizing sexist behavior.

[LiberalLovinLug]

74. I thought he was younger my mistake.

I still think he was operating from a comedian angle of his personality, which is kind of like an overgrown child, rather than in a more serious nefarious sexual predatory manner.

But you are right, I am minimizing it. Because I don't think it deserves maximizing. It was wrong. He admitted it and apologized. I'm pretty sure, at her age, and being around the entertainment industry, she was not adversely traumatized by it. If she was, I am sorry for her.

[Maggiemayhem]

54. The photographer says she was aware

And how did Roger Stone know before the press?

[Marengo]

57. Did Franken say she consented?

[Denzil_DC]

61. What photographer?

See here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029852049

[mythology]

20. As opposed to the women making claims against Moore?

Most rapes or sexual assaults aren't committed in front of others. They isolate the victim.

I get it, you really want to believe that this isn't true. And maybe it won't be. But by judging with so little information, you're judging based on your hopes not the facts. This is why people who are victims don't come forward.

[smirkymonkey]

10. I completely agree.

Among many of Al's positive traits, integrity is one that I am certain of.

[Iliyah]

11. Investigate . . .

But while the Ethic committee is doing so, why not the GOP's leader, El t-rumpo. Investigate the 20 or so claims, and also investigate those harassment claims in congress.

[jodymarie aimee]

13. I am a survivor of Domestic Violence and a 4 time rape victim

and I totally agree with Eliot...this sex sex 24/7 is deflecting from what the Rs are really doing to our country. Media acting like idiots...just as they helped elect Trump, they are now doing his bidding. Squirrels all over the place....

[Eliot Rosewater]

15. Thanks and best advice is ignore the people who ALL OF A SUDDEN care about women.

Yeah right. Especially ignore them here on DU, they want responses of anger so they can you know what.

The tax bill will do it's share of assault, too.

[jodymarie aimee]

22. Eliot

some also don't get how this is creating yet another division on our country...men vs women....just what Russia and the Rs want..

I posted yesterday and of course they came back and said "Why do you hate women?" Yeah, THAT'S it....

[Eliot Rosewater]

23. Yep, and of course as you know and we could both name them there is a large

group who are NOT actually liberals or democrats who pretend to be who are instantly defending this liar and attacking liberals for calling her a liar.

There are a handful of sincere liberals doing it but most are no friends of women who are just using this situation to attack Al and liberals who support Al.

I think I have had enough. For real.

I contribute, I work, I post, I do many other things that people here dont know about. I might stop because I dont think it is gonna matter in the end.

If they can do this to Al Fucking Franken, one of the best human beings on earth, then they will do it to all of us.

Fuck it.

[Marengo]

28. How is yout behavior here any different from those you condemn?

[Eliot Rosewater]

24. Another thing, this scripted, created in Hannity's office lie and smear about Franken

has actually managed to get good liberals screaming at other liberals.

The liars here knew if they got a woman to accuse a man, they could split liberals just like russians split Americans last year.

etc.

Worked beautifully and it is why I give up, for real, for good.

[VOX]

47. Absolutely. Tweeden and Hannity are thick as thieves.

Three minutes of googling will confirm that, going way back.

I’m on the verge of backing away from it all as well. Being angry 24/7 will destroy one’s health. (On the other hand, living longer and healthier in a fascist dictatorship isn’t very attractive, either.)

The other thing that’s killing me is big money: when I just read that the Kochs are buying Time, Inc., I really lost heart. The oligarchy is “above” the law, and its supporters have bottomless pockets.

I fear that we’re on the first leg of a very dark time.

[smirkymonkey]

66. This, exactly!

There is no low they won't stoop to in order to smear Democrats and to defend the worst of their own. This just stinks to high heaven. I'm not buying it.

[m-lekktor]

14. So it's a political partisan thing for you.

gotcha, "bro".

[SaschaHM]

16. Can you believe this shit about "It just happened to happen when there were no witnesses"?

I don't want to get a hide, but that's some serious despicable shit, acting as if the lack of witnesses or photos for an assault is by design of the victim to boost a false claim. I feel sorry for any survivor on DU that has to read that.

[melman]

19. It's one of the worst things I've ever seen here

Truly unbelievable.

[Sailor65x1]

32. Yes

And it did get me a hide.

[cry baby]

18. He admitted what he did in his statement. What happened to believing

the women who have the courage to come forward?

I love Mr. Franken. I am desperately disappointed today.

[TeeYiYi]

25. Her story is changing. She just finished speaking live on msnbc...

...and she kept referring to what supposedly happened as "that" rather than the more descriptive "groping" and "grabbing" of her breasts.

I started questioning her version of things when I heard her hyperbolic description of AF's supposed slimy mouth and lips, while comparing the situation to a salivating dog. So, I went in search of her description of the photo...

In the description I found online, she talks about "groping" and "grabbing her breasts." So much exaggeration. There is no grabbing and certainly no "breasts" plural. It's a staged photo, done as a joke while she's sleeping. If there is any contact at all, with her flak jacket, it is only on one side. So, when she says "breasts," plural, she shows her penchant for exaggeration, yet again.

Her description of the photo makes every other word she says unbelievable. I don't know what her true motives are. I have my suspicions.

Sexual assault is a serious subject and I think this woman has done all women a disservice with this questionable and mostly fabricated story.

TYY

[TeeYiYi]

72. I just watched another interview where the story changed...

Earlier today, the story was that she told Al Franken that if he ever did that again she wouldn't be so nice about it the next time. I saw a couple of interviews with different variations of what she supposedly said to him, following "the kiss." Here is at least one version from earlier:

"I immediately pushed him away with both of my hands against his chest and told him if he ever did that to me again I wouldn’t be so nice about it the next time."

In the interview I watched tonight on the 11th Hour with Brian Williams, she said she remembers thinking what she wanted to say to him:

"...it happened so fast and it was so just...I was so unaware it was gonna' happen and I just remember, I mean in my mind, I was so shocked, that it happened, right?... When you're not expecting something. Right? You're shocked. I remember pushing him off me and I clenched my hand into a fist and I remember thinking,...if you ever do that to me again...and I was just gonna clock him in the face..."

This woman has no credibility, whatsoever.

TYY

[underthematrix]

29. I think Sen Franken made a good decision in asking for an ethics investigation

because he knows he has nothing to hide

Link to tweet

[nolabear]

31. I do too. Let them have at it, her, him, everyone who knows anything.

I think this will play out with remorse on Al Franken's part and if they play it right he can do right by anyone who isn't simply out to smear him. And those people will be revealed.

[underthematrix]

33. I think Tweeden is lying but that's what an ethics investigation can reveal.

Sen Franken absolutely did the right thing.

[nolabear]

45. Exactly. That whole Roger Stone night before thing makes it look coordinated.

Mind you it might have happened and still be a smear campaign, but I agree he did the right thing.

[Mira]

34. I"m in full agreement - I also am holding my breath

for the cavalcade of additional accusers coming out from under rocks.
The differences with this accusation and those about others including 45 are palpable. So is the apology.

[dawg day]

36. Wait. You think she is lying? Because he "always tells the truth?"

So what do you think of his response--the latest one?

Why can't we say, "Men, even good men, do things like this. Why? Let's talk about the factors that contribute to this sort of behavior."

It's not enough to say, "Good people don't do that, so if a good man is accused, he couldn't possibly have done that." Guess what. Good people do bad things. That often is the result of culture. Good people in wartime, for example, have done things they regret the rest of their lives. Good men in our quite sexist society often do things to women (and other men) that if they thought about it (rather than forgetting it, which happens all too often) they would regret. Women also do things they later regret (for example, laughing at something that actually appalls them, not sticking up for friends).

The problem is in the culture, not simply the individual. I don't think the analysis is advanced much to say-- immediately-- that a good person would never lie, therefore the other (presumably not good?) person must be lying.

This is really a good opportunity to do some actual analysis of the phenomenon rather than make it only a woman's issue that women use to bring men down.

[BobTheSubgenius]

42. I once saw Al on a late night talk show.

It was right around the time that Lying Liars was released, as well as Molly Ivins' Incredible Political Animals I Have Known...and whatever tripe a ghost writer had barfed up for Bill'O The Clown to append his name to. The three had just finished a book tour - yes, together! imagine!!! - and through some rhetorical exchange, Al looked straight into a close-up camera and challenged O'Liely to find a single instance of falsehood in his (AF's) book

"Just ONE, Bill. Even one!"

Never heard of a rejoinder from BO, who was probably too busy harassing female co-workers by that point.

O'Reilly.....0

Franken....>1000

[gibraltar72]

43. Roger Fucking Stone

having knowledge beforehand tells everything I'd ever need to know!

[Gothmog]

44. Agreed

[Texin]

46. I'm speaking as a woman. And I believe women should be taken seriously and believed when they accuse

a man of sexual impropriety. That said, not every accuser nor every accusation is the truth. Or at least an unvarnished version of the truth. Honest women have long known that their accusations are met with a great deal of skepticism or simply called lies. That's why so many have remained in silence historically. They've feared public shame, being called liars, being retaliated on by employers or being blamed for provoking the abusive behavior. All of that said, an allegation/accusation by anyone - whether male or female - should be investigated to determine if there is substance behind the allegation. The fact that Tweeden is beginning to massage what happened gives me reason for pause here. She tweeted her accusation of Franken and provided a photo from that incident as proof of her veracity. She then accepted his apology, but her story is beginning to change slightly. She's mitigating some of her comments, which makes we wonder how much of this has been tweaked, and the timing of this couldn't be more suspicious. In any event, we'll see what transpires with the ethics investigation. FYI, there's an interesting post on Blind Gossip today about a "TV funnyman" who was accused of hitting on and "groping women on the subway" and the blind item referred to the man being on a network comedy show. At the end of the item, there was a link to another Blind Gossip post from this past weekend that I recall that specifically referred to a "famous movie actress" who "is now dating a SNL guy." The clue to today's post was referenced in the post from the weekend, but the clue refers to SNL, specifically, not that they're the same person.

[skip fox]

48. I love the man and think he's one of the most honest and intelligent

progressive voices in government, but he should take full responsibly for what he did and suffer the consequences.

I think he is in the process of taking responsibility and hope the consequences don't include the end of his political career.

But this crap has to stop. If the only way to stop it is to expose people we like as well as those we dislike, so be it.

[ancianita]

51. Franken ain't nevah lied. Evah.

[Oneironaut]

52. Sorry, but attitudes like this help the rape culture continue.

How many times do we dismissively hear “(Perpetrator) would NEVER do that!” How do you know? Do you personally know Al Franken? How can you be absolutely sure he wouldn’t do such a thing?

[yuiyoshida]

53. its pretty bad...

[.99center]

58. No contact.

See the shadows under his fingers? A bad joke but he's definitely not groping her like she claimed.

[yuiyoshida]

59. Perhaps...but his is HOW she is playing it...

[Greybnk48]

55. Yep. He's not a liar, never has been, and

doesn't need to be. He's telling the truth.