Try groping someone through a flak jacket.

[trof]

Go ahead, I'll wait.
.
.
.
.
.
Yep, it's like groping your refrigerator.

IT'S A GAG PHOTO.
Look closely.
He's mugging for the camera.
You can see the shadows of his hands on the jacket.
If he were actually TOUCHING the jacket there would be no shadows.

Oh yeah, his accuser has appeared on Hannity and works at a right wing talk station. Just sayin'.

Got my Nomex long johns on.
Flame away.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

1. These are getting painful to read.

[ChubbyStar]

4. Then don't read them!

Pretty simple to figure out. Have a great day.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

14. I won't after I develop psychic powers to know what a post says before I click on the link to it.

[ChubbyStar]

15. The OP did have a header

Not hard to ascertain where the thread is going. Just sayin'.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

28. Since groping through a flak jacket didn't appear that difficult from the photo I saw,

no, I didn't know.

[Kirk Lover]

42. Except he's not touching her so maybe you didn't look at the photo that closely.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

46. It appears he EASILY could have, in the fraction of time the photo shows.

And it looked creepy as hell. Even pretending to grope a women's breasts (through a flak jacket or whatever she was wearing or not wearing) is disgusting. Franken looks creepy as hell in that photo.

[Kirk Lover]

48. He is supposed to look creepy and it is supposed to be a joke. It's very obvious it's a joke.

[MountCleaners]

75. Woman and feminist here....

It does seem to me to be a gag. I'm not defending it - it is puerile and stupid - but from the look on his face it looks like he is pretending to be a creep.

If someone did that to me, I'd be annoyed but I'd hardly feel assaulted. An apology should suffice.

[awesomerwb1]

25. Lordy

[ChubbyStar]

31. Pretty Much

[lame54]

2. tell that to CNN and MSNBC...

no one there can manage to see that

they are roasting him on a spit

[.99center]

22. We can see the shadows on our tiny smartphone screens

But CNN can't see them on their 50' screen...

[rzemanfl]

3. Of course it's a gag photo. What I want to know is whether it was taken on an airplane. n/t

[Brother Buzz]

41. The photo in question appears to be the interior of a Boeing C-17 Globemaster

[rzemanfl]

45. Thank you Buzz. Some people have been saying it was a skit. n/t

[SandyZ]

47. The skit was about the kiss. The photo is the woman sleeping, on plane and mock groping.

[trof]

44. Yes, according to reports they were on their way back home.

[spotthebird]

82. Hold your head up while asleep sitting up

She wasn't even asleep, so why does she say she was?

Why was she the only one wearing military protective gear?

[underpants]

5. True but he did the right thing today

[Puzzledtraveller]

71. Al is handling better than we are.

[Phoenix61]

6. I was thinking the same thing

I think it was a joke. That being said, in extremely poor taste. Apparently, Al thought the same thing or he wouldn't have apologized.

[awesomerwb1]

27. Good question comrade

Maybe you'll get the answer to your question on Breitbart.

[Pugster]

54. I get it. I believe the woman, therefore I'm Russian

Seems logical.

[IronLionZion]

53. What is the custom in your country, comrade?

[flotsam]

8. The guy was a comedian...

...trying to be funny.

[Marengo]

10. Did she consent to be the object of this type of humor?

[flotsam]

13. We don't know

We may get an idea if they can locate the photographer.

[Marengo]

16. Someone who claims to be the photographer said she did, but so far no one else has, including

Franken.

[moriah]

37. You mean, "A Twitter account already outed for disinformation on Politifact...

... said that, without naming the photographer or claiming to be the photographer, and combined the posed picture with a picture of her from modeling work in a way that looks suspiciously like slut-shaming, which would certainly be embarrassing to have retweeted as a liberal if later proven untrue as well", right?

Sorry. I haven't found anything else other than that on the subject, and the previous out on sharing something allegedly pro-liberal that also was false makes me very wary. Especially combined with what could be seen as suggesting something negative about having a nice enough body for people to like to look at in a bikini, and daring to model in one....

[Marengo]

66. Yep, thats the one being promoted as indesputable proof she gave consent.

[pnwmom]

24. That's to be determined. And there were two other witnesses: the photographer

and the man sitting on the right side of the photo.

If the whole photo was a gag, and the woman was only pretending to be asleep, they probably know.

[ksoze]

9. It may be a gag, but she wasn't in on it

It may have been a staged gag photo, but evidently she was asleep at the time. The fact he didn't actually touch her is irrelevant. If he took the photo and stuck his manhood in her face, the fact he didn't actually touch her wouldn't matter?

[Nevernose]

17. But he didnt do that

So your point is completely moot.

[Drahthaardogs]

21. Whipping out your junk and waving it in someone's face

Is NOT the same thing as a feigned grope.


Sorry, it's just not. Just like stealing a candy bar is not equivalent to murder.

When you talk in absolutes it diminishes your argument

[trof]

50. Exactly

[trof]

23. Uh...if he'd actually whipped it out...

that would be jest a leetle different.
jeez

[pnwmom]

26. She could have been in on a gag. It's not hard to close your eyes for a photo.

It also appears that she's wearing eye makeup. Do soldiers usually do that on missions?

But there are two people who can clear this up: the photographer and the man sitting on the right side of the photo.

[Lee-Lee]

55. Shes not a Soldier on a mission

She was a USO entertainer on a tour to entertain troops. Makeup would be perfectly normal.

But if your down to attacking her credibility because she was wearing makeup....

[pnwmom]

65. She was an entertainer who could have closed her eyes as part of a gag. Right? n/t

[Lee-Lee]

79. At this point she says shes asleep and he doesnt say it was a gag or she consented

That people are willing to dig up excuses for this picture that even Al doesn’t offer or claim to be true is pretty sad. It shows the lengths some people will go to discredit a victim when they speak up if they like the person accused- making claims even the person accused does not offer up.

Had it been a gag she was in on I am sure Al would have said that in his statements. That he didn’t says that it’s not the case even from his perspective, so if the victim says that’s not it and the accused attacker doesn’t say that’s the explanation anyone else offering that possible explanation- unless they were there- is just making up stuff to try and smear a possible victim of unwanted sexual conduct.

[pnwmom]

80. It happened 11 years ago. My impression from his statement was that he didn't remember

the event clearly. But there have been reports that others who were there said it was a gag -- which makes sense because the shadows on the flak jacket make it appear that he wasn't actually touching her, and because he couldn't have felt anything through a flak jacket anyway.

We know there were at least two other people: the photographer and the man sitting on the right side of the photo (though many outlets cropped him out). If they do have an investigation, hopefully they'll be able to talk to them.

[Lee-Lee]

81. Nobody has said it was a gag she was aware of and in on

Last edited Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:51 PM - Edit history (1)

Except random anonymous twitter accounts some of who also have pushed fake news in the past.

At this point there is nobody named or with any connection or legitimate place to know saying it was a gag.

Repeating claims of fake news purveyors and random unnamed twitter accounts as having credibility or possibly being accurate is irresponsible and how the Russians and others are able to make fake news spread so widely.

You have fallen for it and put doubt in your mind based on no more than a few random anonymous tweets.

[spotthebird]

87. As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasnt. I shouldn't have done it. nt

[pnwmom]

89. You have fallen for the idea that anybody could be groped through a flak jacket,

which offers the protection of a bullet proof vest.

The photo is obviously a joke -- a stupid, sophomoric joke, for which he was right to apologize.

[Lee-Lee]

90. I havent fallen for anything

The gesture and act is just as irresponsible and disgusting if she was asleep in a bikini, a flack vest, a burqa or anything else.

[spotthebird]

83. Have you ever fallen asleep on a plane or in a car without a neck pillow?

Al's first statement did say something about a bad joke.

Hey, he want's a hearing, I hope he gets one very soon.

[Lee-Lee]

85. Ive actually been asleep in that exact same kind of plane in body armor

Literally I’ve been in that exact same position she was there- side seat on a C-17 in body armor and fast asleep.

So yes, I have. And if one of the Soldiers I worked with or anyone else did that to me when I was asleep I would NOT be ok with it. It’s demenaing sexually dominant based “humor” down at the expense of the divinity of the person.

[spotthebird]

86. It takes discipline to hold one's head up while asleep

What do you believe Franken did? Are we looking at the same picture? Are we supposed to ignore the photograph in favor a fictionalized version of what people want to see? I see a vulgar gag, absolutely no contact, much less a grope.
As a military expert, can you explain how someone is groped through a bulletproof vest absent any contact with even the garment?

[Lee-Lee]

91. Let me use small words and see if you can understand

People sleep all kinds of ways. Those seats are almost straight up in back and in a helmet that is up against the body of the aircraft is not an unlikely position. But what do I know, I’ve just done that exact thing before.

But to the bigger picture. I never said she was groped.

The picture alone is bad enough.

It is simple.

iT IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE TO PRETEND TO GROPE A WOMAN WHO IS ASLEEP.

Period.

End of story.

It’s not funny. It’s demeaning, it’s posturing yourself in a position of sexual dominance. It’s a gross objectification of a woman as nothing more than a pair of breasts that only exist for men to amuse themselves with. If you think it’s funny you think it’s funny to sexually demean women.

It doesn’t matter that the picture doesn’t show contact. There is nothing at all ok or acceptable about what he is doing. Period.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

11. For god's sake think of Sean Hannity! Won't someone think of Sean Hannity!

This has Stone and Bannon all over it.

[Hortensis]

38. Stone knew about it before she came forward.

[Marengo]

12. Did she consent to be the object of this gag?

[trof]

32. Actually, she did.

Al woke her briefly and said "Leeann, is it OK with you if we take a gag photo that looks like I'm trying to grope your boobs through your flak jacket?"
She replied "JESUS Al, YES! WHATEVER! Go bother Franny. Just let me go back to sleep."

[bagelsforbreakfast]

74. So now Trump has to consent before they can shoot SNL?

[Hekate]

18. Thank you. The VRWC is going to try to kill us dead one way or another...

The media and everybody else jump up and down at the latest shiny object, completely bypassing any thought process or fact checking. Again.

[hlthe2b]

19. While I admit it was meant in a comedic way, that doesn't take away from its inappropriateness...

That's the problem. But, i hear your frustration that there are some in the media and on the RW in particular who will actively conflate this with the overt sexual assault and even pedophilia of Moore and others.

[Cattledog]

20. How did she get the photo?

Who gave it to her ??? She showed it to Hannity years ago as he admitted on his radio show today. Word is it was taken on her own camera as a joke. Sometimes jokes go bad. Franken has admitted this.

[B2G]

30. She addressed that.

She was given a CD of pictures from the tour after returning home and that's when she saw.it.

[Kirk Lover]

49. If they didn't think it was a joke and it really was a picture of Al groping her...

was it really a good idea to hand that picture of her on a CD. To hand her the 'evidence'. It really is becoming clearer and clearer.

[awesomerwb1]

35. Wait...

as he "admitted"? What a strange way to phrase it.

Hannity, the bastion of truth.

[tblue37]

72. She says she didn't tell anyone about it until now, so Hannity is lying to lend credence

to the narrative that she was upset back then.

[madinmaryland]

29. Dude! I grope my refrigerator all the time. I love it.

Grab stuff out of it all the time.

[trof]

34. NO NO NO. Door CLOSED only!

[sarisataka]

33. Doesn't matter if she was in plate armor

If she was in on the gag and agreed then it is consenting adults

If not then it was inappropriate

Period.

[trof]

39. Sez you

[sarisataka]

51. I'm not going to do

Ethical contortions to excuse actions of someone I admire and have voted for. Either she agreed to the photo or she did not. Clothing does not change anything whether bikini top, flak jacket or parka.

By all, except one questionable, account it was inappropriate. Apology was rendered and accepted.

For me, the matter of the photo is closed. If witnesses come forth saying all parties agreed then I will change my opinion.

[trof]

57. Revelation: Sometimes gags are a bit tasteless.

[Skittles]

63. when guys papered my locker with centerfolds

I papered their lockers with nekked pics of men, full-frontal hairy

[Cattledog]

73. +1000

[panader0]

59. So if a person is wearing "plate armor" as you say, and someone

touches that armor, that is groping?

[sarisataka]

67. I know some ladies

That are in the sca and wear fully functional armor. If you were to walk up and grab their chests in the such manner you would be receiving a slap from a hand in a metal gauntlet

[Adrahil]

84. True, but there is a "but..." attached to that.

Yes, it was inappropriate. Franken has admitted that. But the fact remains it WAS a gag, and that is different from actually attempt at sexual gratification from healing her breasts up.

It doens't make it right, in the least, but it IS different.

[sarisataka]

88. Agreed

There are degrees of inappropriate and the actions of one person in no way exonerate any greater or lesser actions of a different person

[Squinch]

36. Nope. Doesn't make it OK. She was used as a prop for a sexual gag, apparently without her

consent, though I hope to be proven wrong on that.

Not OK.

His response is very, very good and seems to me to be quite sincere. I'd trust my young nieces with him, of course, and the same can't be said for Moore and Trump, of course. But still, the gag was not OK.

[XRubicon]

58. I agree with you and I am pretty sure he agrees with you

"For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me."

[Squinch]

61. If it turns out the photo was taken without her consent, I really will find iit repulsive in a

creepy frat boy way.

But, paradoxically, because of his statement I will have more faith in him than I did before. He clearly gets what he did wrong. I anticipate he will be a really loud voice against that kind of shit, and an effective one because he can come from the point of view of "I did it, and let me tell you how creepy it is."

[Tommy_Carcetti]

40. It was a dumb picture. But that's all I've got so far.

The Roger Stone factor in the story has me doing a total 180 on my original reaction to the story.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

43. Some people need to go back to the Convent. n/m

[trof]

56. No kidding.

[superpatriotman]

76. Puritanical guilt

No grope.

I wish people would stop saying that she was groped.

No grope.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

77. The problem is this tends to trivialize all harrassment - but some people (Russian bots?)

don't seem to care about that.

[Paladin]

52. Franken's dealing with this in the correct way.

He's offering admissions of inappropriate behavior and apologizing for it.

And he's still got my support for President in 2020.

[doc03]

60. That picture is rediculous, it's obviously a gag photo, if he is even touching the jacket

it's only very lightly and how can you grope someone through a flak jacket. Was this back when he was working as a comedian?

[trof]

62. Yep, '06 or '07

[Puzzledtraveller]

68. I would never reach my hands toward anyone like that

they could be wearing a suit of medevil armor. Perhaps a lapse in judgement on Al's part and being too relaxed in his art which was comedy and sketches.

[trof]

70. OK, if it was a suit of medevil armor that would be different.

Especially if it were a three piece suit.

[JonLP24]

69. I wear one hard to grope I agree

Only if it has armour on it, those don't look like they do but hard to tell.

[denbot]

78. Trolls gotta troll

I miss the granite cookies..