I'll bet a lot of people are like me today, I'm just so angry.

[upaloopa]

71 people shot. 12 killed. Kids and their parents and friends are dead. And all we can do today is fend off the memorized and regurgitated NRA talking points and remain afraid of having a national debate about gun control.

We are being bullied by the gun lobby. How do you treat a bully? You stand up to them!

Bullies are scared little people crying out for help. Let's help them.

[Tejas]

1. Are you religious or spiritual?

You're 71 years old and sitting in an internet cafe minding your own business when a guy with a baseball bat walks in. What do you do?




Well, since you're unarmed I guess you start praying?

[upaloopa]

7. In Viet Nam I had a zippo lighter that had this inscribed on it,."yeah though I walk through the

valley of death I shall fear no evil because I am the evilest mother fucker in the valley." That made a bit of sense back then. Your chances of survival my have been better if you became the evilest mother fucker in the valley. There people were getting shot at daily and shooting back. It was expected that that was the way it was in war.

Today I am a Buddhist and look to the Dalai Lama and his reasons for not fighting the Chinese in Tibet. It's because we should not try to be the evilest mother fucker in the valley. There is a middle way. Evil exists right beside good. That's the way of life.

[Tejas]

11. Fair enough, while he's beating you to a pulp I'll be heading to the door.

thxbai!

[former9thward]

19. That has not worked out too well for the Dalai Lama in Tibet.

There are now more Chinese living in Tibet than Tibetians. That area is lost forever to the Chinese.

[flamingdem]

2. You'll find those NRA talking points all over DU today

"They" are among us, some you'd think would be more critical but when it comes to guns they go weak.

You can just hear the identification with boom bang fun in their lives getting in the way.

[Gregorian]

3. I think it's about who people are, not guns or knives or fists.

And don't get me wrong, I'd gladly see a gun free world.

We can argue about what does more damage, fists or hydrogen bombs. But look at Canada with far more guns per capita.

I say it's our society. I also believe this will get worse, no matter what we do, as population increases. But mostly I see this as a byproduct of physical and mental health, education, parenting, and politics.

[flamingdem]

4. Then Americans are beasts since we have 10 grand gun deaths per year vs. under 100 in Europe

[Tejas]

12. Correct.

[HappyMe]

17. I agree entirely.

It's us.

[kctim]

5. So what would a national debate

about gun control include?

Seriously. I've been bullied by fearful anti-gunners and fending off memorized and regurgitated anti 2nd Amendment talking points all freaking day and would love a national debate about gun control and our rights.

[upaloopa]

8. It was said here that to want a debate on gun control is political suicide. It isn't anti gun

stopping the debate. The gun owners have to start it.

[kctim]

13. I am pro 2nd Amendment and want a serious debate

Are you telling me that I have to tell you what part of my right that I am willing to cede, before we can have a debate?
Or are you suggesting that pro 2nd Amendment Americans must agree to registration or banning before anti 2nd Amendment right people will have a debate?

[upaloopa]

15. I would say that you are pro an interpretation of the second amendment.

Before the courts became conservative the second amendment was interpreted to allow reasonable gun control.

The fact that the courts have interpreted the 2nd amendment more than one way is a good place to start the discussion.

You take the conservative reasoning and the prior reasoning and lay them side by side. Take a look at what is best for the common good.

You know as well as I that the Constitution is living document and is open to different interpretations through out our history.

We no longer say that voting rights were only meant for property owners.

Like I said, it isn't the anti gun people who are preventing the debate. Your statement made in you post is the reason we can't have a discussion.

[kctim]

16. You avoiding the facts is why we can't have a serious discussion

I accept the interpretation that was the law of the land for over half of our countrys existence. I also accept the fact that it is the SC job to uphold our rights. Righties don't like the ACA SC ruling and you don't like the 2nd Amendment SC ruling. You both claim they are wrong simply because they don't match your personal beliefs. Tough shit. They made a ruling and we have to live by it, so stop with the excuses.

"You take the conservative reasoning and the prior reasoning and lay them side by side. Take a look at what is best for the common good."

Finally, a point to debate.
For most Americans, the individual rights and freedoms of ALL is what is best for the common good. Why are your fears justification for taking some of those away?

"You know as well as I that the Constitution is living document and is open to different interpretations through out our history."

Then start infringing and stripping rights guaranteed by our Constitution if that is what it will take for you to no longer live in fear. Of course I will fight against all legislation by emotion, but it is your right to fight to give up your rights.
Or, we can discuss your fears and others rights, and see where it ends.

So, again, IF you want a serious debate, please tell us what legislation do you want, that would have prevented this event and will prevent future events like it?

If you can't answer that simple question, then your posts are nothing but more of the same: anti 2nd Amendment rights people talking out of their ass to make themselves feel better.

[Tejas]

14. It's the coward courts with revolving doors.

[Fumesucker]

20. Oh bullshit, the USA has the highest incarceration rate on the fucking planet..

Five percent of world population and twenty five percent of the prisoners..

You'll have to find a less pathetic excuse than that, it shouldn't be difficult.

[Skittles]

6. NRA = PARANOID COWARDS

[ileus]

9. Preach it to em...

guns and ammo in the hands of civilians is a tragedy waiting to happen.

[meow2u3]

10. NRA = No Reasoning Allowed

They ought to be branded a terrorist organization.

[permatex]

18. Why?

Under what statue or law does the NRA come close to being a terrorist org.? By your comment, that would make the 4.1 million dues paying members terrorists or, at the very least, funding a terrorist org.. Are you fucking serious?

And just to be clear, I am not a member of the NRA, nor am I defending the NRA, I'm pointing out how stupid your post is.

[Fumesucker]

21. Because by the policies they advocate they encourage massacres like the recent one in Aurora..

Seems pretty clear to me..

[permatex]

23. So please post the link to the policies that they advocates that encourage massacres

like the one in Aurora.
I've seen that claim made over and over again in the last few days, I've been to the NRA website several times in the last few days looking for those policies and I just can't seem to find them, so, if you would be so kind, and post the link to these policies.
You see, I'm not a member so maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

Oh yeah, while your at it, maybe you can post the links to the statues or laws that would designate the NRA as a terrorist org.
Thanks

[Tejas]

22. Because the Repubs at Brady and VPC are all we need!