Franken: Accusers 3 and 4.

[VermontKevin]

The first woman, who spoke to HuffPost on condition of anonymity because she’s worried she’ll be harassed online for making the allegation, said Franken groped her when they posed for a photo after a June 25, 2007, event hosted by the Minnesota Women’s Political Caucus in Minneapolis.

“My story is eerily similar to Lindsay Menz’s story,” the first woman said. “He grabbed my buttocks during a photo op.”

The second woman told HuffPost that Franken cupped her butt with his hand at a 2008 Democratic fundraiser in Minneapolis, then suggested the two visit the bathroom together. She spoke on condition of anonymity out of fear that the allegation could affect her position at work.

“My immediate reaction was disgust,” the second woman said. “But my secondary reaction was disappointment. I was excited to be there and to meet him. And so to have that happen really deflated me. It felt like: ‘Is this really the person who is going to be in a position of power to represent our community?’”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/al-franken-two-more-women-groping_us_5a15a455e4b09650540ec295?b9q

I suggest clicking and reading the whole story. Accusers 3 and 4 are, well, they don't sound conservative. I suggested last week Franken resign. Why?

Because this kind of thing is kind of like an iceberg.

[BeyondGeography]

1. Franken is in trouble

Fuck.

[VermontKevin]

4. Yeah. I would say that. One accuser performs in a feminist choir.

The second was a 21 year old WOC.

Both told people at the time. Including a reporter.

[Demsrule86]

76. Sorry...you either say who you are or you shut the fuck up...righties no doubt...I don't believe it

for one minute.

[VermontKevin]

87. I guess the feminist choir member is a rightie?

the 21 year old WOC at the time who told one of the authors of this piece about the incident shortly after it happened?

[Demsrule86]

112. I have no interest in anonymous sourced period end of story...come forward or shut up.

A person has a right to defend himself...and let me tell you no resignations...we don't give the GOP squat or it will never end. We need Dems operatives to go after the GOP and stick it to them...we won't ever beat them by piling on our own people.

[hadEnuf]

151. This

[leftynyc]

157. The right to face your accuser

and that person having to withstand cross examination is in the US constitution. There is very good reason for that. whispering campaigns are unacceptable when the result is the destruction of someone's life.

[VermontKevin]

164. Well, Franken can sue. He will lose, but he can sue.

Last edited Thu Nov 23, 2017, 05:29 AM - Edit history (1)

The only way he wins is proving that the reporter in story has engaged in a decade-long conspiracy, or has decided to use a time machine to fabricate contemporaneous texts.

[leftynyc]

172. I'm making no judgement

about Franken, I'm explaining this wouldn't be enough to convict FRANKEN in a court of law.

[pscot]

246. Does that really matter?

I don't think Franken should resign, but I would be amazed if he sought re-election.

[Demsrule86]

196. Yes most likely and the staring at the chest comments sound like 7th grade. We can't

make a judgement on the credibility without knowing who they are.

[cwydro]

180. Im with you.

This stinks to high heaven.

“Eerily similar?” Yeah, I’ll just bet it is, and I don’t need to wonder why.

[VermontKevin]

187. I am sure you apply that standard to anonymous whistleblowers, too.

[Demsrule86]

194. I don't believe anonymous whistle blowers unless it is backed up in someway.

[VermontKevin]

198. Well, here you have backup. Someone did go on record.

You may choose not to believe this author.

Link to tweet

[Denzil_DC]

200. You apparently are heavily invested in Franken resigning,

not because any of this may be true, but because you see him as an electoral liability.

Maybe Roth feels the same? Or are writers unimpeachable sources now?

[VermontKevin]

202. I think it's true. And I think there will be more women.

[Denzil_DC]

204. You "think" and you "think".

I don't care what you "think". You didn't "think" there would be an ethics investigation last night, apparently now you "think" there will.

You are shamelessly pushing this because you want Franken to resign. The rest is just bluster.

[VermontKevin]

206. No, it's entirely possible there will not be an ethics investigation because of the Senate rules.

We will have to wait to see how this plays out.

[Denzil_DC]

212. You declared at least twice downthread that there wouldn't be, among your frantic posts on this.

Do you really want me to link them?

Now you want to wait and "see how this plays out"?

If you'd done that in the first place, this OP would have a lot fewer replies and your post count wouldn't have rocketed in the last 12 hours.

I can allege you have an ulterior motive in this sudden poststorm of yours calling for a Democrat to resign.

I've spoken to others about it, and they agree and can cite past behavior of yours in corroboration.

So you have an ulterior motive.

That's the standard of proof you're applying. It sucks.

[VermontKevin]

226. Like I said, we have to see how the Senate investigation plays out. But I don't think there will be

one that reaches a conclusion based on Senate rules.

I've spoken to others about it, and they agree and can cite past behavior of yours in corroboration.

Oh please, invite me to the Star Chamber.

[Denzil_DC]

228. Then wait!

Quit pushing this with umpteen posts an hour to suit your own agenda, whatever it is.

Simple.

If you're still around, you may well get an invite. That's just courtesy.

[VermontKevin]

229. Please, let the star chamber know I'm eager to greet them. I assume it includes the

administration of this site?

[Denzil_DC]

230. Oh that would be telling ...

Gotta preserve anonymity, you know.

[L. Coyote]

223. Fortunately, this story isn't about what you think.

[Eliot Rosewater]

254. There is an agenda here on this board, you see it, I see it, but I bet if we point

it out it is US who will get in trouble.

Therefore, I give up.

Have a great turkey day.

[Demsrule86]

265. You are correct.

[cwydro]

184. What is a feminist choir?

This is a new term for me.

No matter someone’s gender or color, I don’t think you can make assumptions about the politics of someone you’ve never met.

[VermontKevin]

186. I assume they are talking about a choir like these ones:

https://calliopewomenschorus.org/

http://www.prairiefireladychoir.org/

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

233. Not good, that's for sure... Trump should be made to resign first though.

[standingtall]

2. Read the whole article

neither one of them has come forward. Impossible to tell if they are conservative or not.

[VermontKevin]

6. One performs in a feminist choir. The other was a 21 year old WOC.

Both told people at the time. Including the reporter.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

89. Not good... ugghhh.

[Fred Sanders]

8. They are anonymous accusers? If so they can not be credible by definition.

In a statement to HuffPost, Franken said, “It’s difficult to respond to anonymous accusers, and I don’t remember those campaign events.”

[standingtall]

13. Yes they are annonymous

[VermontKevin]

21. Anonymous accusers can be very credible. One accuser told the reporter contemporaneously.

[brush]

34. Odd that the reporter didn't report it.

[VermontKevin]

39. At the time the accuser did not wish him to. He apparently respected the wishes of

the victim.

[still_one]

62. They can at least have the reported come out to verify te story without having them be identified.

Roth is a progressive journalist.

However, if they really wanted to clean this bullshit up, they wouldn't be anonymous, but come right out, and everyone can see that this isn't some right wing agenda. I don't think in this case it is, but that anonymity does bother me

[Fred Sanders]

36. In law, anonymous information by an uncorroborated previously untested source is inadmissible.

Throw in an animus motive. I am applying real evidence law, not internet evidence law, so sorry for that in advance.

[brooklynite]

48. Funny how Roy Moore supporters say the same thing

[VermontKevin]

57. Hubris. John Edwards helped get Bush elected. So few want to

examine that.

[Control-Z]

85. How did John Edwards help get Bush elected? eom

[Raine1967]

146. Uhm, what?.

Do you want to explain this statement?

[Fred Sanders]

59. None of Moore's 6 accusers is anonymous. Their accounts can at least be checked out and

motives noted.

And Franken is not in an election campaign where personal morals of the candidate is central.

[still_one]

98. Absolutely right. There is no reason for them not to come out. They would be supported, especially

with everything that has gone down.

[VermontKevin]

165. Take a look at this thread. You think they would be supported here?

[still_one]

174. yeah I do. Their anonymity is the motive behind the skepticism by some in this thread.

The article indicates they are liberal and vote Democratic, and if that is so, they are going to commended.

Two weeks ago when the first accusations came out it was not unreasonable to be skeptical, especially with the second accuser. Lindsay Menz. By her own admission, she voted for Trump, and that in itself adds uncertainty to her story.

The first accuser was part of a USO show, who has a history of republican causes.

These last two accusers have credibility, because they supposedly have no political motivation for this. The fact that they choose to remain anonymous is is what is causing the concern.

I am going to assume that Franken is going to come out next week, and either admit or deny the inappropriate touching. If he admits it, then there will be no skepticism about its authenticity. If he denies it, that is definitely going to impinge on the accusers credibility, because those accusers are anonymous.

A serious accusation is being made, and these accusers want to remain anonymous. That is a problem

[VermontKevin]

175. I am sure that every poster expressing concern about assault victims wishing to remain anonymous

has similar objections to anonymous whistleblowers.

[doc03]

107. Don't we know who all the Trump accusers are? It doesn't

mean anything in that case. I met Donald Trump and he grabbed my butt and I am a guy, oh don't tell anyone who I am.

[VermontKevin]

49. Not true.

Stopping a suspect, searching a car, searching a home, trial, sentencing report?

All different standards of evidence.

We are not at a trial.

[Fred Sanders]

61. I do not know the public trial standards of evidence.

[LisaL]

72. There are no actual standards for a public trial.

But there could be actual consequences.

[VermontKevin]

73. Well, apply Moore and Trump to our side.

I believe their accusers. I never thought to check who they vote for.

[spooky3]

138. You didnt need to, because several Moore accusers declared publicly

that they were Republicans and/or Trump voters when they released their stories.

[leftynyc]

159. The sixth amendment applies

The right to face your accuser and have that person get cross examined is your right. This kind of evidence would never be allowed at trial.

[Ms. Toad]

252. Actually, you're not.

Evidence law has to do with what is admissible in court (as your caption acknolsedges).

The standard you recited is more similar to the what is required to use an anonymous tip to establish probable cause for arrest or a search warrant (not an evidentiary standard, but one which satisfies the 4th amendment requirement to be free from unreasonable search and seizure)..

[Demsrule86]

80. I don't believe it for even a minute...anonymous righties.

[VermontKevin]

83. Who sing in a feminist choir? A 21 year old WOC who told a reporter of the piece at the time?

[Fred Sanders]

95. What kind of choir is she singing in now 10 years later is more relevant.

[Demsrule86]

115. Thank you...anonymous for a reason...righties.

[ChubbyStar]

122. Indeed!

This yammering about the choir is getting on my last nerve. As if singing in a choir proves jackshit.

[Demsrule86]

264. Sound like bullshit to me...and 'he stared at the chest' stuff is junior high.

[Eliot Rosewater]

257. It is simple for me, if Franken says he did it, he did it. If he says no, then no it is.

I better make that my last comment, I dont want to go off and enjoy turkey day only to come back and find out I went too far, supporting a Democrat, and such.

[madville]

22. If legit I can't blame them for not revealing their identity

They know they will be be put under a microscope and publicly attacked in the attempts to discredit them. I wouldn't want to put myself or my family through that. Hopefully they can present their story privately during the investigation if it makes them more comfortable.

[Brainstormy]

38. In this climate I don't

respect their anonymity. They have to know what's at stake.

[Fred Sanders]

51. You want to put your butt on the line and ruin the reputation of a public figure then say so

and say so in public.

No its ands or...buts.

[njhoneybadger]

103. Why didn't he just say I never grabbed a women's ass?

It's fucking over

[spooky3]

142. Because Dems are concerned that women are dismissed as

liars when they make these complaints, regardless of the facts.

[doc03]

104. Any women alive could make that claim anonymously even if she never was

closer than a 100 miles from him.

[Demsrule86]

86. Exactly right or if they are being paid as well.

[Vinca]

3. That's bad. Very disappointing.

[JI7]

5. It should all be part of the investigation

[VermontKevin]

11. There isn't going to be one. My prediction.

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. Nothing good will come of this.

I think it's the end (no pun intended) for him. Sad.

[LisaL]

10. So democrats pay the price.

But what do you want to bet we are getting senator Moore?

[nycbos]

19. We probably will.

But if resigns we can show the nation we are better than Republicans when it comes to assault. We say we take action against our own when they turn a blind eye.


Then we make Roy Moore the running mate of every Republican running for office.

[LisaL]

37. We will be better.

But Republicans have the house, the senate and the presidency. As long as we are better, I guess it's all good.

[nycbos]

94. How can we as Democrats claim to be advocates for woman...

... and take back The House, Senate and the Presidency when we make excuses for harassment and assault when it is one of our own.

[LisaL]

105. How can we take anything back if we are going to demand people resign

based on accusations, even anonymous ones?

[Blue_true]

109. Lisa,

If Franken guilts now the Democratic, very, very liberal Governor of Minnesota can appoint a Democrat to fill his term. That is advantageous to our party, the replacement is likely to be liberal and squeaky clean. If we cling to Franken, republicans are going to kill us and that may result in Minnesota having a republican Governor when Franken gets forced out, and that person appoints a republican.

[LisaL]

128. And in 2018, that person would have to run for re-election.

[Blue_true]

133. With in inside track advantage. If Franken stays, we lose that advantage. nt

[FBaggins]

236. Governor Dayton is up for election in 2018

Republicans will make sure that the investigation taints that race (giving themselves a chance to win it)... THEN they would get rid of Moore (unless we've taken back the senate)

[alarimer]

131. And then one more vote for their ruinous tax plan.

(I have no idea how quickly a replacement could be seated, though. Hopefully it would be as soon as they could get to DC).

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

91. And we can bask in our moral superiority while the GOP controls the government.

[nycbos]

96. How can we claim to advocates to women if we tolerate sexual harassment.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

102. Depends on what you mean by "tolerate."

Do we demand the resignation of a very effective progressive senator (Jeff Sessions probably wouldn't be on the hot seat now if it hadn't been for Franken's questions) because he patted some strangers' butts in public and acted like a dumb frat boy during a typically bawdy USO show, when he could do a lot more good remaining in the senate and doing penance by promoting legislation that strengthens the currently toothless legal procedures dealing with sexual harassment?

Or are we going to go for some zero-tolerance approach, which almost always leads to ridiculous overreactions - like a kid getting expelled from his zero-weapons-tolerance school because he forgot he had a little pocket knife in his backpack, or the first-grader who gets kicked out because during recess he pretended a stick was a gun? Zero tolerance policies of any kind lead to mindlessly treating things the same that are actually very different. Some things should be tolerated if they can be corrected, mitigated, and used to improve a situation, and where the consequences of not tolerating them are worse.

And, by the way, we can "advocate for women" until we're blue in the face - and all that advocating will go nowhere if the GOP controls everything.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

153. 👏🏾. + a zillion. n/t

[LenaBaby61]

163. Couldn't agree MORE with you on your comment.

"And, by the way, we can "advocate for women" until we're blue in the face - and all that advocating will go nowhere if the GOP controls everything."

Well, it's already a Fait Accompli that fatso is stacking the courts with a lot of right-wing, racist, nutter justices because Pres. Obama was blocked from filling at least half of those court slots fatso getting to appoint all of those nutter, racist, judges IS going to affect us for a generation in negative ways. That ship ls currently already sailing. Also, if abortion ends up in the Supreme Court, and women in red states who are poor & victims of rape/incest and they lose their right to make a decision about their bodies which includes being able to have a safe and legal abortion, my guess is that many omen/young girls end up dying due to back alley abortions, maim themselves or even commit suicide, because they were forced to take matters into their own hands. I guess they'll be losing their lives with dignity because of that "Flying high" stuff, right?

Rich women will be making appointments to go to other destinations so that they can HAVE their abortions in a clean, relaxing environment.

As for Franken & his 2 latest accusers, I understand these women wanting to come forward if they feel that Franken did what they said he did, and I also understand the culture of shaming women and of making them feel as if what happened to them (Rape, sexual abuse, harassment) is their fault. However, if I were the one being accused of something as serious as rape, sexual assault, or groping I'd damn sure want to have a thorough investigation of what I'm accused of and to also know WHO my accuser(s) is/are, especially if I knew that I wasn't guilty.

[dawg day]

249. First-- I don't think he should resign...

However, I think we can make that case without trashing the women.

I think one thing that is very disspiriting to all of us, and women in particular, is the realization (or reminder) that this kind of behavior-- the "minor" intrusions like "groping", are extremely common. Most women have experienced them repeatedly from many men that they never expected to behave that way-- nice guys, friends' husbands, co-workers.

It's not by any means ALL men who do this, but in my life I've encountered enough "nice guys" who did do this that I'm not that surprised (just disappointed) to hear that men I admire have behaved this way in the past, maybe just a few times, maybe many times. Many of us women have had to excuse the behavior of a boss or a graduate advisor or a friend who we admire and don't want to alienate-- we say, "Oh, he was drunk," or "Oh, it was just a joke."

And those might even be true excuses. They wouldn't be sufficient, but they might be true. Trouble is, we start being wary. Leaning away from the hug. Declining the meeting in his office. Making excuses not to be alone. Distrusting. And that limits our ability to live comfortably in this world, when we can't even trust the nice guys to keep their hands off our parts.

So knowing this, having experienced this 'micro-aggression' from men we like and previously trusted, well, it's not hard to imagine that something like this might have occurred. It's the sort of thing many of us just decided to ignore. You make your rationales-- well, he's been so helpful with my thesis. You know, his wife would be so upset, and she's taking care of his elderly mother... don't make a fuss.
Don't disrupt. It was no big deal.
And it WAS no big deal, just one more in a long series of offenses many women suffer on the way to old age. And if this is a "nice guy," well, why complain. What good will it do vs. what damage it will do.

That's the bargain many of us have made many times. Maybe it's a good bargain. Maybe men shouldn't be fired or forced to resign for a few gropes.
Then again, how are they ever going to decide not to do the groping if there's never any cost to it?

Male culture-- the toxic aspect of it-- is so pervasive, especially I think in my generation (boomer). When so many of the traditional markers of "male-dom", like legal domination and absolute control, are swept away, what do they have left? (A lot, but they might not believe that.) That might account for some of this shyt-- just the casual grab to prove you're a man, or to make your pals laugh, or to show that no matter how aligned politically you are with women, you're not a pssy.

I don't know if Franken did these things, but I can't deny that nice guys engage in such behavior. We've been denying or ignoring this for, well, forever, and I'm not sure it's fair to make him the posterboy for niceguy/badbehavior. But it's also not fair to assume that these women -- who are describing the sort of experience many women have had with "nice guys"-- are lying. They might be piling on, but that's what happens-- your memory is jogged and you remember something you made yourself forget... the friends you told urge you to come clean about it... you become angry again... you make a call to a reporter. None of that involves lying.

Point is, though, that the best way for nice guys to deal with this is to explain- probably painfully- why they did this even if they knew it was wrong, what combination of peer pressure and defiance and whatever led them to do it. This would be harder than an apology, yeah. It might even be harder than resignation. But given that this is SO pervasive that even good guys participate in it, I think it might be time for men to openly start to explore what imp of the perverse led them to do such things. Maybe then they'll be able to resist that imp the next time.

[BannonsLiver]

154. OH yeah thatll do the trick

Meanwhile they will circle the wagons and retain power. That’s what happens when you disarm yourself and the other side doesn’t.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

237. Yes, if Moore wins, think of the 2018 and 2020 campaign ads!!

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. That's the way is usually works these days,

...sadly enough.

[FarPoint]

9. I don't care...

I really don't.....

[BeyondGeography]

15. If it was your daughters butt you would care

Right?

[FarPoint]

29. Not the issue...

I am sick of this Media bastardize Mccarthyism...

I'm done....need evidence based legal due process for me to give a shake.

[ClarendonDem]

35. For Roy Moore and Donald Trump too

Right, since they've never been convicted of anything.

[FarPoint]

42. Both of them will stay on their mark.

Both will proceed without a loss....It will happen...

I'm not playing into this alleged touching, feeling etc crap.... I'll support and pay attention to factual evidence with legal due process...

No more Trial by Media...end this now.

[ClarendonDem]

52. Fair enough

But if we are applying the "we don't believe the lying women" standard to those who accuse Dems, then we need to apply the same "we don't believe the lying women" standard to those who accuse Roy Moore, or Donald Trump, or anyone else. I personally believe those who accused Trump, Moore and Franken, because I don't have any reason not to.

What sort of "factual evidence" do you want? For instance, there's no "factual evidence" Roy Moore molested anyone.

[LisaL]

119. What we believe or don't believe isn't changing anything.

Trump is president, Moore is likely getting elected.

[Loki Liesmith]

137. Moore is entitled to represent his constituency if he wins.

Unless he’s charged with a crime or found culpable in a Senate investigation, if he wins, Moore should keep his seat. Same with Franken.

I’m done with media frenzies for any accused people.

[True Dough]

30. He/she

certainly would. This is political bias creeping in. There is no reason to excuse predatory behavior.

[Demsrule86]

78. I don't believe any of it...and anonymous...sorry that is bullshit.

[delisen]

79. I would say:take your hand off my butt.

My daughter would say: take your damned hand off my butt.

I guess it is a generational thing.

We both would say: Senator, what you just did was inappropriate. and if you do it to someone else the person might report you. I am not going to report you but I think you need to see a therapist.

[BeyondGeography]

82. Awesome

I’m sure that’d learn ‘im.

[delisen]

100. Actually my intent would be to help him

so I would probably follow up with a list of therapist who specialize in inappropriate sexual touching.

I would figure I had a choice-report to law enforcement or suggest help.

I am much more likely to suggest therapeutic actions rather than contacting police.

I would also consider reporting it to his chief of staff or to the Minority Leader in Congress-people with an interest in his behaving appropriately.

I don't see much point in not doing anything and just concluding that someone is "bad."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

92. If it was *my own* butt I'd be annoyed and creeped out, but

I wouldn't be demanding his head.

[highmindedhavi]

136. Right

nt

[nycbos]

12. If we start talking about the political identity of the accuser...

Last edited Thu Nov 23, 2017, 11:35 AM - Edit history (1)

... we start sounding like the Republicans in Alabama who attack the accusers as liberal.


Assault is assault.

It doesn't matter if the perpetrator is a Democrat or Republican


It doesn't matter if the victim is a Democrat or Republican.

[VermontKevin]

17. I agree.

[msongs]

20. anonymoust accusations have no value or credibility nt

[nycbos]

24. If an anonymous accuser said that a Republican Senator assaulted her...

... and said she was afraid to come forward you would believe her.


It doesn't matter if someone is "a good liberal" when it comes to assault

[LisaL]

31. We might believe her, but Republicans would still vote for him.

[blueinredohio]

40. If I'm going to accuse someone of something that can affect

the rest of their lives I'm not going to hide. This could be pretty serious. At least have the balls to step up

[VermontKevin]

75. "The balls?" Wow.

[Fred Sanders]

45. If it was butt fondling 10 years ago and you say so anonymously, no, that is not credible

enough for such serious consequences. Party is immaterial. The principal is all.

[Fred Sanders]

23. I do not accept anonymous accusers of anything, and not during a heated political atmosphere.

[FarPoint]

44. I totally agree.

I'm not taking the ratings bait...

[Lee-Lee]

231. Ive said that over and over and been attacked for it

You can think someone’s politics and how they live every bit of the rest of their life is anathema to all you believe in and still take claims of sexual harassment and assault seriously from them.

But that seems to be a bridge too far for may here.

[BootinUp]

14. Im still in his corner. Eom

[Fred Sanders]

26. Anonymous accusers...of butt fondling...because they are incapable of ignoring online chatter

smellys Foxy.

[BootinUp]

33. I also factor in my observations of his

Character and statements by people he has worked with.

[greyl]

90. Me too. nt

[bluestarone]

16. again i'll

wait til proven otherwise

[brush]

43. I'm with you. I'll wait for the investigation. It's too easy to say and anonymous accuser said...

this or that. It's even said one reported it to a reporter at the time but the reporter didn't report it.

Odd.

[trof]

18. Shit. Just shit.

[delisen]

27. Each woman spoke about different standards then

I think it best to just let the ethics investigation proceed.

[VermontKevin]

32. I don't think there will be one.

[delisen]

60. Why do you think there won't be one?

[4139]

28. One, two, three, four...time to show Franken the door.

It’s not going to get better

[True Dough]

41. I was prepared for this from accuser #1

Franken's statement was very telling, as was his response to accuser #2. He hasn't come out and said that he would never behave so inappropriately. He's made statements about feeling badly that the women were uncomfortable. The handwriting was on the wall that there were other such incidents, sadly.

This is true of most predators. They rarely act out once. It's many, many times until they are stopped by the justice system or they finally come to the realization that they have too much to lose -- and that epiphany comes too late.

[VermontKevin]

53. Iceberg effect on some behavior.

[pintobean]

106. Yes, he never denied it.

That's always a tell. There will be more, and he knows it.

[Eyeball_Kid]

221. There are a number of problems here.

1. Franken apparently engaged in "boundary violations." He reportedly engaged in intimate behavior without mutual consent. The intimate behavior was offensive, and done in public. The victims' clothing was reportedly intact. Franken reportedly did not attempt to move his hand under the victims' clothing. Franken's reported behavior is confined to touching the women's buttocks over their clothing.

2. The details of some of the events are sketchy and do not comport with Franken's known schedule of appearances at the time of the alleged incident(s).

3. I've read some reports that some of the victims have relationships with right wing notables, and some of those notables use communications servers associated with Russians and Russian bots.

4. And then there's Roger Stone. WHENEVER Roger Stone is involved in ANYTHING of a political nature, you can rest assured that the truth is being heavily skewed in favor of the current Republican power base.


Some on this thread are calling for Franken's resignation. I won't do that. The offenses that Franken REPORTEDLY committed do not rise to the level of legal misdemeanors, and certainly not felonies. Franken and others who took liberties with women (and/or men) are now in the middle of what appears to be societal and very public denunciations of such behavior. This is a societal flashpoint for sure, but it's also important to maintain a perspective that this kind of change does not call for overreactions and societal hysteria resulting in across-the-board punishing of any alleged offender, regardless of due process, sufficient corroborating evidence, the relative severity of the alleged offense, or political pressure. There are the allegations of Franken's behavior, and then there are detailed incidents of child sexual abuse by Roy-Boy Moore. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum and should be treated as such.

[True Dough]

242. Let's add to that list of problems

the sanitization of groping/molesting to refer to it as "boundary violations."

Listen, Eyeball_Kid, I respect your opinion in regards to not calling for Franken's resignation before an ethics investigation is completed and I agree that there are varying degrees of offences. But presuming you are a woman or you are a married man, if I placed my hand on your backside over your clothes (or your wife's clothes), would you tell your family/closest confidants that True Dough committed a "boundary violation." I have my doubts.

Anyway, we shall see where things go with Senator Franken. I certainly wish he would have made a heartfelt pronunciation of his innocence from the start. He has not. I fear there is guilt there. The extent remains to be seen by the Eyeball_Kid and everyone else's eyeballs as well.

[Ferrets are Cool]

47. Anon accusers? Fuck that shit. This is nothing more than a witchhunt

[saidsimplesimon]

50. Let this be a lesson to all men.

Do not imitate Larry David. Republicans run for higher office, Democrats are asked to resign? I am a woman who is not convinced of guilt or innocence.

[Tarheel_Dem]

54. Franken called for an ethics investigation. Let's hope this puts us closer to that, or he will be...

the least effective Senator we have. These allegations, wherever they come from, need to be aired in a legal setting so that we can all be assured that Al Franken is always who we thought he was. He's been a very effective adversary of Jeff Sessions, and the fact that Roger Stone previewed the coming "time in the barrel for Franken" makes me very uncomfortable. But we need that investigation or there will always be a cloud over Franken, sadly.

[BeyondGeography]

67. Al knows if he has been groping women

He doesn’t need an investigation for that.

”I can categorically say that I did not proposition anyone to join me in any bathroom,” Franken told HuffPost.

If that’s the best you can do, please spare us the investigation, Al, and kindly let your Democratic governor name a replacement.

[BootinUp]

113. Politics is rough u may have to suffer

through some.

[BeyondGeography]

121. U r so wise

Thx

[still_one]

55. I will believe the accusations of a Democrat or a progressive on this, but DAMIT, I want them

to come forward., or if they feel that afraid of intimidation, then at least give Zachary Roth, a progressive journalist, permission to corroborate the story

I do NOT believe it is unreasonable to be skeptical about people who voted for Trump making false accusations against Democrats, however, I do think it is credible if Democrats or progressives come out and make similar or the same accusation.

One thing I will say, if they really want this garbage to stop then they should come out without being anonymous.

[VermontKevin]

58. Roth corroborated it.

[BootinUp]

63. Who? What?

[VermontKevin]

69. 1 of the reporters on the story corroborated that 1 of the accusers told him at the time.

[BootinUp]

74. Dont know him from Adam. Nt

[Demsrule86]

117. He has no credibility with me....the accusers come forward or he shuts up and so do they...ten years

ago butt foundling...Bull shit.

[Fred Sanders]

64. If you say so?

[VermontKevin]

65. I can't make you read the article.

[still_one]

68. People can read the article, but may not NOTICE that Roth is one of the authors. You need to point

that out

I didn't realize that until I went back and looked who it was written by

[VermontKevin]

71. Ah. I see. Thank you.

[still_one]

66. I just saw that Roth is one of the contributors to the HuffintonPost article.

[LisaL]

70. But anonymous accusations?

[still_one]

77. I don't like that either. If they are Democrats or liberals as they maintain, with all the

publicity that has come out, no one is going to attack them for that,

[madville]

81. This isn't some right-wing clickbait crap

This article's authors actually do have some liberal credibility.

[still_one]

93. I never said they were right wing. I do think they should come out, and forget about the

anonymity. If anything, they are going to be supported

[madville]

99. Sorry I didn't phrase it right

I was agreeing with you

[still_one]

110. Roth is a progressive journalist, and that definitely gives credibility to the incident. Franken is

up for reelection in 2020, but if he decides to resign, I would rather he not do it until 2018, unless of course he is being charged with a crime. That is not meant to minimize his probable despicable behavior, but it would be the best way to try and prevent the damage being done by the current administration, and hopefully be able to prevent another Gorsuch from getting in if a vacancy becomes available.

[Demsrule86]

118. No it doesn't...the accusers come forward or they don't...why should I believe Roth who maybe has

motivations we are not aware of.

[still_one]

139. Intellecually I agree with you, but that is going to be up to the accusers, and if they don't come

forward, then there will be some who will call for Franken to resign, and for the reasons I stated, I hope he doesn't, until at least 2018, and hopefully 2020, to at least give us a chance to take back the Senate and prevent another Gorsuch disaster.

The other thing that would be nice is for Franken to come out and say something to these charges. Yes, I know he called for an ethics investigation from Congress, but that isn't going to happen, because I suspect there are too many Congress people worried about opening that bag of worms, so it would be nice and addressed it, and if he engaged in such behavior I still don't want him to resign unless it can be guaranteed that a Democrat can fill that seat, and I am not sure that can be guaranteed if there are calls for a special election in Minnesota

[Demsrule86]

177. Well he shouldn't resign ...because giving the GOP a win on this will make them double

down on other Democrats;this is a test for them...stand up to liars and bullies or they take you down.

[still_one]

213. We are essentially on the same page Demsrule86, and in my view that is regardless of whether the

accusations have merit or not. The only exception I make is if Al Franken wants to, and only if his vacancy can guarantee a Democrat in that seat until 2020, because that is what he was elected to serve through.

The stakes are just too high, and we cannot afford to lose any Democratic seats in the Senate

[Demsrule86]

266. I agree...and the accusations are nothing...I can't even believe anyone would take them

seriously.

[a kennedy]

56. Damn it.......was just thinking its been two days since the last woman came forward......

DAMN IT........IS IT OVER FOR AL??? DAMN IT. DAMN IT.

[Demsrule86]

84. A big who cares... I would not allow the Gop to lead me around by the nose.

[a kennedy]

155. and seriously, how many women can they pay off to keep saying this stuff???

[Demsrule86]

176. They have lots of money and will stop at nothing to retain power.

[potone]

88. Oh fuck!

I like him, and we need him in the Senate. If these things are true, it will be bad for progressive policies–hell, just halfway decent policies–if he has to resign.

[MerryBlooms]

97. This makes me so sad and so disappointed.

Franken is a voice we need and does such a great job fighting for the least of us. I'm just so sad to read this today.

[Blue_true]

101. Why do people feel that they have a right to touch or say inappropriate stuff to

unwilling people? It is shameful, people that have done it need to pay and future abusers need to be tried and sent to prison if convicted.

[VermontKevin]

111. I think of them pretend the person isn't unwilling.

[ucrdem]

116. Could be. Still Franken is always going to be a special case.

When we used to line up for boring holiday family photos we sometimes used to horse around like this.

[VermontKevin]

120. You suggested following someone into the bathroom?

Probably not.

[ucrdem]

123. That sounds like it was meant to be a joke.

What bathroom could the two of them have gone to at a state fair?


p.s. I thought you were responding to a comment I'd just made in another thread, sorry, typing on a tablet

[VermontKevin]

125. Read the article more carefully.

[ucrdem]

127. Will do.

[ucrdem]

141. I noticed that "both women have been telling them privately for years."

Usually stories we like tell our friends about celebrity encounters are intended to amuse.

[VermontKevin]

168. Two things might be true at the same time:

The behavior occurred and the women shared the stories with others at the time and since, sometimes as an amusing cocktail story.

[ucrdem]

207. It sounds like somebody searched FB for scandal on Franken

and proceeded to find two women who might have been embarrassed to admit to any exaggeration. In which case it sounds like standard oppo research and shouldn't be taken seriously without more info. JMHO. Happy TG!

[VermontKevin]

208. Except that the reporter is stating the 4th accuser told him about the incident long ago.

Link to tweet

This is the reporter you think is doing "oppo" research.

Happy THanksgiving to you too!

[ucrdem]

210. Sounds like a pro with a rolodex. And Huffpo is not exactly the gold standard of journalism.

I've noticed that when a RW witchhunt is afoot they are front and center with fresh scandal. The US and French versions both. I can give some rather surprising examples. For that reason I don't hold it in high esteem.

[Denzil_DC]

216. Be gentle with him.

At this stage, that's all he's got, and it seems to matter to him so, so much.

[ucrdem]

217. LOL.

Things will look different after the long weekend but this wasn't any coup-de grâce, that's for sure. More like a big turkey.

[Denzil_DC]

218. Yes, at this stage, you have to laugh, don't you!

At the barefaced transparency of it, if nothing else.

It's either that or start chewing on my laptop screen.

Happy Thanksgiving. May your turkey be moist and tender, and your glass always at least half-full.

[spooky3]

158. Please take your own advice. He denied saying that.

[VermontKevin]

166. Well, yeah. I don't expect someone to own up to such behavior.

[spooky3]

170. Especially if he didnt do it.

[Raine]

114. I think Franken is toast

he'll be sacrificed.

[Demsrule86]

124. If we do this than we are stupid...the GOP will keep coming...if they see we hit back hard and

refuse to play their game, we will have a chance.

[LisaL]

129. That's what I am thinking.

If a person can be brought down by anonymous accusations, who is going to be safe?

[Demsrule86]

178. No one will be safe...and the GOP can't be brought down with accusations of pedophilia so how is

that going to work for us?

[alarimer]

126. Anonymous liars

Unless they testify UNDER OATH, it is so much bullshit.

[riverwalker]

130. If he resigns

who takes his spot on Senate Judiciary Committee?

[RhodeIslandOne]

134. I guess it will have to be someone who doesn't dare trip up Jeff Sessions

That's the bar for getting targeted apparently.

[moriah]

132. Franken: "I can categorically say that I did not proposition anyone to join me in any bathroom."

From the article.

To be honest, there's enough people on here who have defended ass-grabbing lately that I have to wonder just how many people think copping a feel is paying someone a compliment.

Then again, men have cupped, pinched, or tweaked at women's derrieres ever since they could by the fashion dictates of the time, I'm guessing. In the book "Cheaper By The Dozen", written about a childhood when corsets were probably decreasing in use, there's the Dad joking about preachers pinching rears so much that women "had to eat off mantlepieces".

Is that the reason for older fashions having panniers/bustles -- to protect our asses from unwanted grabbing?

-----

It looks like Franken's not denying he's ever copped a feel. He probably doesn't remember all the people he takes photos with. Some might have grabbed his first, not necessarily saying these women did. So yeah, Franken might have copped feels. I hope he stops before he gets to GHWB age, because that's even creeepier than a 50-something doing it. I imagine he will.

But he IS denying the "bathroom" allegation. Not even the "I'm sorry you felt harassed backstage even though we remember things differently" with Tweeden, but outright denial.

Given that he's been pretty honest so far, and surely could suggest better places than a bathroom, I personally think that one is BS.

[Thor_MN]

135. Well a Vermont person can't vote in Minnesota. So your opinion doesn't count for much.

You seem to really be focused on this.

What is your opinion of Trump?

Why have you not suggested that he resign? How about Moore? You got a post where you suggested he drop out?

[VermontKevin]

140. My posts on Trump and Moore are easily accessible.

Franken's behavior seems to be different from Moore and Trump. I don't know that I would equate them.

[Thor_MN]

145. Funny, "VermontKevin Trump resign" should bring up one of those easily accessible posts

in a site search, shouldn't it? Doesn't seem to exist...

Also odd that you seem to find that Trump and Moore's behavior, while demonstrably worse than what Franken has been accused of, not worthy of a post storm calling for their resignation or withdrawal.

Trump, I assume, you could have voted for. You can't vote for Moore or Franken, so why are you so adamant that just one of them resign?

[VermontKevin]

147. Oh lordy, why would you think I voted for Trump? I voted HRC, primary and general.

And would do so again.

[Thor_MN]

148. I didn't say you did, but I assume, if you are a US citizen, that you are old enough to have voted

in 2016. You could have voted in the presidential election in which Trump won the electoral college.

You can not vote for a Minnesota senator, so we still have the paradox of why you are storming on getting him to resign, while seemingly ignoring the much more serious allegations against Trump and Moore.

[cwydro]

240. Thank you.

This poster’s posts are puzzling to me.

[Thor_MN]

244. The "easily accessible" posts are non-existent...

Seems to be a singular focus on Franken.

Regardless of anything else, I'm not seeing it being raised anywhere but it seems the Alt-Right would be very eager to attack a liberal Midwest Jewish Senator. Lots of things for them to hate, right in their wheelhouse. Only thing he is missing is being not born in the US.

[VermontKevin]

248. I am going to suggest a very thoughtful article to you:

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Harvey-Weinstein-and-Al-Franken-are-Jewish-but-are-they-Jewish-news-514926

Who cares if Franken is Jewish? I can't imagine why you thought bringing that up was appropriate.

[Thor_MN]

253. Wasn't talking to you. Your opinions are have no bearing on Franken's office.

Have a good day and maybe find another person or cause to attack.

[cwydro]

256. I searched too.

I found nothing.

[Kingofalldems]

150. Here's a bombshell for you:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141920947

[ChubbyStar]

143. Thor just dropped a VIKING hammer

[Kingofalldems]

149. Bang! Zoom!

Nice.

[Docreed2003]

160. Its interesting....

There’s a couple of really aggressive posters in this thread that seem to have a coincidental way of making similar grammatical errors and seem to have the same strong opinions on Franken. Maybe I’m being too sensitive but it just seems too coincidental to me.

[Thor_MN]

211. With currents events,

There are people who are very frustrated that they didn't create relevant accounts years ago.

Who would have thought they would get a chance to attack a mid-west Jewish Senator?

[american_ideals]

144. These "Scandals" sourced/fueled by Kremlin / alt-right

Link to tweet

From the Russian Troll monitoring dashboard (run by Clint Watts):
http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/

Between November 11 and November 17, we examined 55 articles that were among the top URLs shared by Kremlin-oriented accounts on Twitter. Over 40% of the URLs focused on sexual misconduct allegations; of those URLs, 42% attacked accused Democrats (or those connected to liberal causes), 4% promoted a narrative of a Saudi-linked pedophile ring, and 54% defended Roy Moore.

https://imgur.com/rBEu51V

[BannonsLiver]

156. THEY are among us. Reading through this thread makes it clear.

[Docreed2003]

161. No shit right??

Their repeated grammatical errors are too similar and too coincidental to be dismissed. Maybe I’m being overly sensitive, but, to quote my favorite fictional detective Harry Bosch, “I don’t believe in coincidence”.

[liberal_patriot_md]

152. While we run around worrying about this

It been almost four months since Congress passed new sanctions on Russia on which Trump has taken no action.

The NSC sent a proposal to Trump to arm Ukraine - no action.

GOP is attacking the poor and middle class through new tax rules, and dismantling Obamacare.

Net neutrality is disappearing.

And we are worried about what a few random women say about Franken’s hand placement a decade ago.

[OnDoutside]

162. Such utter unprovable tripe from anonymous accusers. Can't

People see the timing of this ? This is distraction all the way.

I'm looking at the huge number of women who have worked with or for Franken over decades, and have come out in support of him. If this was a genuine issue they wouldn't have done so because as we have seen, word gets around, like Rose or Weinstein.

Someone has to call this for what it is, a hit job to distract from Roy Moore.

[runtel]

167. Jeremy Piven

You know he could do like Piven. He not only denied the accusations but took 2 lie detector tests and passed both. I know that it doesn't stand up in court but goes a looong way in public opinion.

[VermontKevin]

169. He could sue Huffpo. We will have to see what happens.

[spooky3]

171. Why are you so determined to argue with anyone

Who has any doubts about these stories?

And you apparently don’t know that it is very difficult for public figures in the US to prevail in defamation suits. They typically have to prove that the outlet knowingly released false information, with the intent to harm the target.

[VermontKevin]

173. Not believing this round of accusers indicates textbook actual malice at play:

one of the reporters on the story corroborates that a victim told him about the incident at the time it happened.

So either both women and the reporter are outright lying, or Franken has a pattern of behavior. You tell me.

[Denzil_DC]

220. Believing this round of accusers without evidence indicates textbook actual malice at play.

There. A simple declarative sentence with a minor adjustment. Any number of us can play this game.



Now about that Occam's Razor ...

[VermontKevin]

243. The point of my post went over your head. If Franken knows this story to be false, he's got a

actual malice claim of defamation/libel and should sue the shite out of the HuffPo.

The reporter's involvement gives him that.

[Denzil_DC]

247. You seem very, VERY keen to tie Franken up in knots for the foreseeable future.

Why, it almost seems like a crusade!

Why is that?

[VermontKevin]

250. You never answered my question upthread.

[Denzil_DC]

251. Dude.

If everybody spent their time answering your questions in the gazillion posts you've made over the last 12 hours about all this, they'd never get anything else done or think about anything else.

Or is that your intention?

Add that to the list of questions I've asked you about motivation etc. that you've never answered.

As it happens, I addressed the question in another of your gazillion posts in the last hour or so. Keep up!

[VermontKevin]

255. You keep replying to my posts. And I don't owe you any answers.

Whether or not you heard the audio is of no moment to me.

[Denzil_DC]

258. You keep replying to mine. You keep asking questions.

By the same token, what right do you have to demand answers, especially in such volume?

There's another question to add to the list ...

[VermontKevin]

260. A cat can look at a king. You are free to do as you wish.

[Denzil_DC]

261. Now, that's weak.

No traction? Getting tired?

Turkey must be getting cold.

[underthematrix]

179. A butt grab? An invite to a bathroom?

Gawking at a woman's breast? These women weren't working for him which means could've come forward at the time it happened.

I don't believe them.

I want thw ethics investigation so every last of these folks can #SayItUnderOath

[riverwalker]

181. It was a butt pat

Not a dick pic, not rape, not assault, not harassment, no violence. A pat on the butt. There are shades of grey in all these allegations coming out.
The real assault on women is in the Whitehouse, violence is taking away their healthcare, muzzling of net neutrality, dismantling of our functioning government, colluding with Russia.
I thought about it all night and I think he can survive this, if it remains just butt pats. How effective he would remain is up to him. I guess for a powerful member of Senate to resign over a overly friendly butt pat is pretty ridiculous when you think about it.

[VermontKevin]

189. I agree about the severity of the offense. The pattern is more troubling.

[cwydro]

182. You seem to have it in for Franken.

I don’t understand that.

[Demsrule86]

183. You forgot 'annonymous'....and probably will eventually need to add ...the term 'not

factual'...enjoy piling on Democrats? This only helps the GOP.

[VermontKevin]

185. I refer you to this:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Demsrule86]

197. Nice apple and oranges...but those anonymous sources were eventually corroborated...

as in the case of Flynn...this is entirely different...these two are attempting to hurt a Democratic Senator after the two righties failed...and you damn well better believe...I want to know who they are, and the accusations are stupid to say the least...he was staring at their chest? Really. You have to want to believe this shit in order to do so.

[VermontKevin]

201. And this is corroborated. Your theory rests on the assertion that this guy is lying:

Link to tweet

Of course, Franken hasn't denied the butt grabbing.

[Denzil_DC]

203. That's not "corroboration", no matter how often you post it.

Why is it so inconceivable that Roth might be lying?

I have as much evidence that he is as I do about these two allegations you're so keen to push being true.

[VermontKevin]

205. I'm applying Occam's Razor to this:

Either a boatload of people are lying from both sides of the aisle, or Franken has a pattern of behavior that he has not denied.

Which do you think is going on?

[Denzil_DC]

215. I'd put that razor down.

You might end up cutting yourself, over and over again.

Never run with razors. It's dangerous.

[Demsrule86]

268. It has not been corroborated...and I would be careful if I were you about attacking a

Democrat with such charges as 'grabbing'.

[TCJ70]

188. Heres my problem with all of this...

...aside from the first person who had an inappropriate picture of him NOT touching her, anyone can come forward and say “HE TOUCHED MY BUTT!” based solely on there being a picture of them together. Politicians take those kinds of pictures all the time. It’s also a little odd to me that Franken apparently waits for a photos to do something.

It just seems awfully convenient that the guy who went after Sessions and others the most forcefully is suddenly a target of all this.

[VermontKevin]

190. I agree. But in this case, the reporter himself would have to be outright lying, as one of the

accusers told him about the incident at the time.

Another poster pointed out that Franken isn't denying the butt-touching.

[Denzil_DC]

222. OK. Every time an anonymous person alleges Franken touched their butt,

Franken has to issue a press release:

I did not touch that anonymous person's butt. Whoever it is.

One problem is that if he does that, all many will remember will be "Franken ... touched butt."

Utterly ridiculous standard. "When did you stop ...?"

As is your continual reliance on one reporter as definitive proof, which you've posted about a dozen times this morning alone.

Somebody's lying. It may not be anyone to do with or even mentioned in the HuffPo article.

[VermontKevin]

225. Well, show me where Franken denied the butt touching. As another poster pointed out,

he has not denied that.

[Denzil_DC]

227. See my post you replied to.

It covers it amply.

You have not denied that you were already determined that Franken should resign even before these anonymous allegations were reported.

So how many posts do you plan on making about this today?

I only ask because I have ample time and opportunity while I'm at work to rebut your constant attempts to push this story with no evidence for your own reasons, but I'd like to plan in some breaks.

[VermontKevin]

232. Again, can you quote Franken where he denied the physical contact?

I assume you've heard the Stern audio?

[Denzil_DC]

245. Why do I need to?

I've covered this already.

Do pay attention.

Do you deny you're whipping this up for your own reasons?

There. Like I said, this is a game anybody can play.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

209. "Its also a little odd to me that Franken apparently waits for a photos to do something.

It's time for THE MANCHURIAN BUTT PINCHER! He's activated only during photo opps.

[TCJ70]

219. Seriously, what better way to hide your...

...butt grabbing proclivities than to do it in front of at least one other person who has a camera?

[Denzil_DC]

224. The man's an evil genius!

Maybe better to hang on to him than have him resign?

[FreepFryer]

191. First Trump resigns... then we talk about this. Not before. (n/t)

[VermontKevin]

192. Well, I think we can multitask. There's no reason justice should depend on Trump, is there?

There's a Senate Ethics investigation.

[FreepFryer]

193. Multitask but triage. Trump is first, then Franken.

[VermontKevin]

195. Well, I don't agree. The Senate investigation will proceed. But in the meantime, the Senator

is fully cognizant if there are more women out there.

[FreepFryer]

199. Great. For Americans, these are more important: North Korea, Russiagate, Cultivated Racism

Corruption, Executive overreach, legislative abuse, phony tax law, threats to healthcare, add your own...

[aintitfunny]

214. There will be an investigation.

I will wait on that before condemning. To see the promotion of this on DU is disturbing.

There is no defense of this behavior, but the first accuser's account has been reasonably questioned. Franken did not deny, he apologized and requested an investigation. He defends the woman for speaking out. He deserves his "day in court."

If there is an expectation that Franken should resign after these anonymous accusations then it is not the purported behavior that is the iceberg to bring down a career, it is the finger pointers who seem unconcerned about getting the whole story.

Demand Conyer's resignation, there is much more justification when a settlement has taken place. Demand Trump get investigated - there is certainly call for that considering rape - child rape - is included. A brief ass feel should not be equalized with those allegations. Do accept the possibility that there may be an agenda against Franken, there is a need for Republicans to take that seat and silence one of their most effective critics. I don't know if that is true, perhaps it is wishful thinking. But neither do I know is the accusations are fact. I do know that many women felt the need to defend Franken and they wouldn't if they believed him to be someone who would harass women. I find it questionable that any politician would behave this way in publishing c, at a political event while getting photographed. Don't confuse that statement with a comedic photo and a comedian.

Bandwagons are getting jumped on with glee. That will grow an iceberg.

Where is the balance, where is the reason? Frankly, as a woman who can say "Me too" I hate feeling the need defend Franken to others in this progressive Democratic site that I have been a member of since 2004.

[katmondoo]

234. I remember what the (GOP) did to John Kerry a Purple Heart veteran

[stevenleser]

235. That does it. No more defenses of Sen Franken from me. nt

[VermontKevin]

238. Steve, you are on Twitter. Some audio was released last night. I won't link it.

[stevenleser]

239. Too disappointed to even look into this further. On a brighter note, I am in Vermont for

the Thanksgiving long weekend. South Londonderry to be exact.

[VermontKevin]

241. Oh, we already went South for the winter. I feel the cold too much in my bones.

But you will have beautiful backdrop for a great holiday.

And yeah. Don't search for it.

[ollie10]

259. This is a Republican hit job

Step back. Not all accusers are right, some are motivated by dark motives

[Hoyt]

262. Guess we need Priests as candidates to ensure no impropriety . . . . Oh wait, that won't work.

Hate this is happening to Franken. I believe Franken and the Governor will do what is best for the party. I just hate this situation arose.

In future, politicians will refuse photos or stand with their hands in front of them. Handshakes -- which have often been replaced by hugs in social situations -- might return as well.

[OhZone]

263. No one should resign until the head

pussy grabber in chief does.

I hate what he did. I hate being touched without consent. I hate being catcalled. But there are more important things at stake right now.

I don't want my taxes to go up.

I don't want the GOP to destroy everything.

Let the voters decide!

[malaise]

267. Well I suggest that you suggest that Groper Don the Con resign first

Otherwise you know what you can do with your suggestion. Bye!