Manson got me thinking about how unjust our healthcare system really is

[Calculating]

Most people are probably aware of Charles Manson dying lately after 40+ years in prison. What really burns me is realizing society paid for this guy to have free healthcare/dental/etc for all that time. WHY IN THE HELL does our society care more about the health of convicted PRISONERS than free citizens? I guess if you get some kind of illness you'd better just get thrown in prison if you want healthcare. What kind of message does this send?

[Irish_Dem]

1. I know, it is just wrong. Healthcare is a right for all Americans. nt

[RainCaster]

2. It SHOULD be a right, but instead we have yuge tax cuts for the wealthy

All because of Citizens United.

[unblock]

3. sadly, ask that question in today's political circus and they'll just take it away from prisoners.

indeed, it's a basic right.

the free market depends on voluntary choices. you know, freedom.

the free market doesn't work properly when something is essentially a mandatory expense.
at least, it doesn't work unless there is a great deal of easy choice.

healthcare is a mandatory expense, and there's usually very little choice for many reasons.

few doctors, especially in a particular specialty, in an area to choose from;
few medicines that work on your particular condition;
few procedures that treat your particular ailment;
few few hospitals in the area to choose from;
few insurance companies to choose from, and they all are basically the same. expensive and horrible on approving anything or paying claims.

it's a recipe for skyrocketing prices without adding any real value.

[Calculating]

4. Healthcare is basically like a Utility Service

You need it, and usually you don't have many options to compare. Same goes for big pharma drugs with disgusting markups. You need it, and there's effectively no alternative in some cases. Our society long ago agreed that utilities like power/water/etc should be regulated for the above reasons. I wonder if they'll ever agree to regulating healthcare profits and markups.

[unblock]

5. i think there will be a split in health care. covered essential and less covered non-essential

obviously there's already completely non-covered stuff like vanity plastic surgery (not plastic surgery for, e.g., burn victims or after mastectomies)

however, i think the politics are such that the only "compromise" available may be that *some* health care will be deemed to be "essential" and covered (whether single-payer, medicare for all, "like a utility" as you say, etc.).

and other health care will be less covered as it will be deemed not essential.


i don't like that distinction at all, i see it as all essential; but if republicans are open to anything, it might require drawing a distinction between life and death health care vs. quality of life health care.


then again, we might yet be able to win without making this compromise....

[Calculating]

6. Perhaps coverage up to a certain point

If you chronically cost the government less than $15,000 per year they'll cover all of your expenses(with exceptions for one-time type incidents leading to higher expenses such as sudden injury or illness). Over that and you'll need to start paying for independent insurance. The problem is how the costliest 10% of patients are taking up like 80% of healthcare spending while the bottom 50% are taking hardly anything. That's what makes it so hard to come up with universal healthcare solutions.

[unblock]

7. the problem is we need coverage for the really expensive cases

it's the "voluntary" or at least "less essential" health care where savings could be had by reducing demand.

people really have no choice when they have chronic liver disease or cancer. they absolutely need the expensive treatment and we as a society have to figure out a way to get them what they need.

so i think there will be a split for things we can't agree on as a society. so you might end up seeing prosthetic limbs as a sign of wealth as poor people won't be able to afford more than crutches.

[RainCaster]

10. None of you have talked about single player systems

America is the only country who has health care insurance companies. America is the only first world country who has out of control health care expenses. America also has the worst health care record of any first world country. Do you see any common areas here?

[unblock]

11. i'd love to see single-payer.

i'm just speculating on what i think may actually happen.

republicans currently wield too much power (even if they don't really know how to use it) for us to get single-payer any time soon.

even if we get the white house and both houses of congress after 2020, they'll still filibuster and delay and sabotage. it's really the only thing they're good at.

[Horse with no Name]

8. Custody

Just like parents who have custody of children, they are expected to provide for their needs.

When the state takes custody of prisoners, they are expected to provide for their needs.

This is the right thing to do. It is the humane thing to do. I wouldn't want to live in a society that did otherwise.

[Lee-Lee]

15. This is the answer

And we had people when I was arrested who were some of our frequent flyers who spent a lot of time in jail anyway who would turn themselves in on outstanding warrants when they needed something.

Usually it was dental. Specifically our jail had huge dental bills thanks to meth mouth. Smoking meth absolutely destroys your teeth thanks to it causing extreme dry mouth. The meth users will almost always fight the dry mouth with Mountain Dew in our area, and the lack of saliva means that the sugary and acidic soft drink stays on the teeth. 1-3 years of meth use will ravage someone’s mouth, Google “meth mouth” and look at the pictures.

The standard answer for dental problems before was just pulling the problem tooth and let them worry about it later, but before it was always just one or two teeth. When meth started really taking off it was patients coming in with a whole mouth of rotten teeth. Usually that required full removal of all teeth and fitting for dentures in normal circumstances.

That wasn’t cheap, even going the cheapest, most minimal route that was possible. And it takes a while to make all that happen. Since our county hail was only where you were held pending trial if you didn’t have bail or for sentences of 59 days or less there want time to do dentures, so if you can’t in with badly rotten teeth that were a threat to your health they got pulled and you got put on a soft food diet with instructions to get dentures when you either landed in state prison or back on the street.

[erpowers]

9. People Have Been Arrested For That Reason

The people may be lying about the real reason they did something wrong, but at least one man has claimed that he got himself arrested in order to get healthcare. Others might have also stated that as their reason for breaking the law. On a completely different topic, I think one man claimed he got himself arrested just to get away from his wife.

[moriah]

12. Maybe Manson "got lucky", but brag about jail health care to families...

... who lost relatives to asthma attacks due to lack of medical attention.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/arkansas/articles/2017-04-03/arkansas-jail-changes-policy-after-inmates-asthma-death -- changed only after the family was starting to sue

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/us/texas-jail-death-video.html

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/inmate-at-st-louis-county-justice-center-died-due-to/article_e5f7189e-7e4f-5264-a6a3-f8949f7fd756.html

http://www.journalnow.com/news/local/autopsy-forsyth-county-inmate-died-from-asthma-problem/article_faac34b2-6477-544b-a56e-9521ff91861d.html

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Family-of-Alameda-County-inmate-who-died-in-6849015.php

I could go on.

[Horse with no Name]

16. Here is one prison

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/lack-of-adequate-health-care-is-a-death-sentence-for-arizona-inmates-8300897

[ChoppinBroccoli]

13. I Read A Story Within The Last Year Or So........

...........where a man was diagnosed with some very aggressive form of cancer. He didn't have health insurance, so he walked into a convenience store, robbed it of $20 or so (some nominal amount--probably whatever was in the register), then walked out and sat down on the curb and waited to be arrested. When he was arrested, he said he had cancer and couldn't afford the treatments, so he chose to go to prison where he could get treatment for free. What a statement on the greatness of our for-profit healthcare system.

[Ms. Toad]

14. Free care is worth about what you pay for it.

My brother died in prison with metastatic colon cancer that, had he had regular screening - or even screening when his symptoms started - might not have gotten to be metaststic. He was already at stage III or IV at diagnosis.