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Pelosi votes no to impeach tRump. (Original Post) Joe941 Dec 2017 OP
But Franken must resign. BannonsLiver Dec 2017 #1
Bizzaro world. Joe941 Dec 2017 #3
Now, she needs to go SummerSnow Dec 2017 #5
Hope Seth Moulton Polly Hennessey Dec 2017 #28
He called for Franken to resign as well. BannonsLiver Dec 2017 #40
Oh, geeze, people. ITS NOT TIME to impeach. Hortensis Dec 2017 #38
Democratic leadership have zero sense of optics yurbud Dec 2017 #36
+1 dalton99a Dec 2017 #48
No shit! workinclasszero Dec 2017 #55
They think having him as GOP candidate will help win the election. BSdetect Dec 2017 #2
So same strategy as 2016?? That worked out so well. Docreed2003 Dec 2017 #9
No they think that waiting for Mueller and having actual impeachable articles to vote on onenote Dec 2017 #23
Impeachment is off the table! Chasstev365 Dec 2017 #4
Amazing.... LovingA2andMI Dec 2017 #52
Trump is way too valuable for Democratic party fundraising purposes. bullwinkle428 Dec 2017 #6
Please accept my apologies in advance. underthematrix Dec 2017 #7
Which provisions of the Espionage Act do you think he will be charged with violating? onenote Dec 2017 #25
any and all of these underthematrix Dec 2017 #41
A word of caution here. Lochloosa Dec 2017 #8
A procedural vote. longship Dec 2017 #12
I knew about the Senate rules, but I'm not sure if they apply in the House also. Lochloosa Dec 2017 #13
This wasn't a placeholder procedural vote of the kind you are describing. onenote Dec 2017 #19
Did Not Need To Be Her SoCalMusicLover Dec 2017 #29
Isn't it nice to know she has our back? PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2017 #10
I would vote no right now, too. Dr Hobbitstein Dec 2017 #11
Stop being reasonable! This is "Bash all Democrats Day" here on DU. FSogol Dec 2017 #14
+1 . n/t obnoxiousdrunk Dec 2017 #15
Indeed. nt Dr Hobbitstein Dec 2017 #16
+1 onenote Dec 2017 #21
Putting Russia aside, anyone with eyes can see that he's grossly unfit ecstatic Dec 2017 #46
Then invoke the 25th. Impeachment is for crimes committed by the executive. Nt Dr Hobbitstein Dec 2017 #47
Not quite ecstatic Dec 2017 #50
Why? Because it was the correct vote at this time. onenote Dec 2017 #17
Thank you. The devil is in the details. Lochloosa Dec 2017 #22
Yup. JHan Dec 2017 #44
She can't put the genie back in the bottle mvd Dec 2017 #18
We don't have the votes...dumb anyway. Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #20
Oh I know, but isn't it all about "symbolically showing our pure high moral ground" Kimchijeon Dec 2017 #26
Great answer...hahah. Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #39
I love your GIFs! nt ecstatic Dec 2017 #49
Thank you...You are very kind. Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #58
UNFORGIVEABLE Kimchijeon Dec 2017 #24
Is she holding out for the guillotine? Sanity Claws Dec 2017 #27
Im done onecaliberal Dec 2017 #30
Even if, by some miracle, we win the house and senate in 2018 Bettie Dec 2017 #31
Why do I feel that you are absolutely correct? workinclasszero Dec 2017 #61
"people calling themselves Antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation" The_Casual_Observer Dec 2017 #32
when will be the time Nancy??? bdamomma Dec 2017 #33
Maybe when something that isn't as stupid as Green's resolution is proposed? onenote Dec 2017 #42
this little tidbit is interesting bdamomma Dec 2017 #34
Her hypocrisy is numbing. arthritisR_US Dec 2017 #35
lol RandiFan1290 Dec 2017 #37
No Pelosi did not vote "no" on impeaching tRump. There was no up/down vote on impeachment. SFnomad Dec 2017 #43
K&R ... JHan Dec 2017 #45
The Dems are just worthless these days! ananda Dec 2017 #51
And According To This Poster.... LovingA2andMI Dec 2017 #53
After 2018 MFM008 Dec 2017 #54
Where are the votes? (Pelosi is smarter than you're giving her credit for.) NurseJackie Dec 2017 #56
"Now is not the time..." bluedigger Dec 2017 #57
Yup that will help those 13 million folks losing health care next year workinclasszero Dec 2017 #62
LWhich proves they will not go after Trump if Dems control Congress..All talk and no action...NT helpisontheway Dec 2017 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author Oneironaut Dec 2017 #60

BannonsLiver

(16,375 posts)
40. He called for Franken to resign as well.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 04:37 PM
Dec 2017

yesterday was a day of deep disappointment. That being said, I wouldn't object to efforts to push Pelosi aside.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
38. Oh, geeze, people. ITS NOT TIME to impeach.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 04:03 PM
Dec 2017

SummerSnow, what is the origin of your hostility to Pelosi? Would you know her name and despise her if if she weren't one of our most important, valuable people?

Pelosi is greatly admired by her colleagues, who chose her to head their house caucus and rechose her again and again. She has risen higher than other woman in American elective office because she's very, very good at what she does.

Would you want to get rid of her if the Republicans, the extreme right and kleptocrat billionaires, the anti-Democrat left, and the Russians weren't telling you you should? Because that's who need her out. Same people who fed the same kinds of lies about Hillary to the same people for the same reason:

The battle for power between the dark forces of the right and the Democratic Party for the future of our nation. There is no other army fighting to save our progressive democracy. We're IT.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
55. No shit!
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:29 PM
Dec 2017

Is ANYBODY on the side of the vast majority of the American public???? FML!

Al Franken gets railroaded out of his Senate seat and the Pussy-grabber in chief has full approval/protection from the democratic party??????????

WTF is going on!?

onenote

(42,700 posts)
23. No they think that waiting for Mueller and having actual impeachable articles to vote on
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 03:01 PM
Dec 2017

makes more sense than pursuing Al Green's nonsense resolution.

See post #17 for more detail.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
52. Amazing....
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:03 PM
Dec 2017

We said this the other day about the fallout from Conyers -- and had our post banned. Wonder what will happen to this one......

(Just in case the lurkers are seeking revenge for calling out the obvious, again -- we are not saying Pelosi needs to go now -- but other folks are.....)

bullwinkle428

(20,629 posts)
6. Trump is way too valuable for Democratic party fundraising purposes.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:53 PM
Dec 2017

John Fugelsang nailed this months ago.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
7. Please accept my apologies in advance.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:53 PM
Dec 2017

Trump may NOT be eligible for impeachment. It appears he was hacked into the White House by Russia and our strongest ally Israel. He will most likely be indicted and arrested (removed from the WH) under the Espionage Act.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
41. any and all of these
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 05:42 PM
Dec 2017

18 U.S. Code Chapter 37 - ESPIONAGE AND CENSORSHIP
US Code
Notes
prev | next
§ 791 - Repealed. Pub. L. 87–369, § 1, Oct. 4, 1961, 75 Stat. 795]
§ 792 - Harboring or concealing persons
§ 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information
§ 794 - Gathering or delivering defense information to aid foreign government
§ 795 - Photographing and sketching defense installations
§ 796 - Use of aircraft for photographing defense installations
§ 797 - Publication and sale of photographs of defense installations
§ 798 - Disclosure of classified information
§ 798A - Temporary extension of section 794
§ 799 - Violation of regulations of National Aeronautics and Space Administration

Lochloosa

(16,064 posts)
8. A word of caution here.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:54 PM
Dec 2017

Sometimes you have to vote no, if you are sure it's going to lose, in order to bring something back up.

Parliamentary rules are a pain in the ass sometimes.

I'm not saying this is the case here.

longship

(40,416 posts)
12. A procedural vote.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:10 PM
Dec 2017

It happens in the US Senate all the time. Not sure about the House, but it's likely they have similar procedural rules.

Any DU experts here?

onenote

(42,700 posts)
19. This wasn't a placeholder procedural vote of the kind you are describing.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:28 PM
Dec 2017

It was a vote that aligned with the votes of more than 2/3 of the Democratic caucus.

And it was the correct vote (See post #17).

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,854 posts)
10. Isn't it nice to know she has our back?
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:54 PM
Dec 2017

Said Poindexter sarcastically.

However, it is forbidden to criticize Nancy Pelosi or suggest she might consider a nice retirement. Clearly a case of the devil you know.

 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
11. I would vote no right now, too.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:57 PM
Dec 2017

There’s no hard evidence at this point.

Once Mueller is done with his investigation, then we should pursue.

ecstatic

(32,701 posts)
46. Putting Russia aside, anyone with eyes can see that he's grossly unfit
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 04:31 AM
Dec 2017

to be in control of our nuclear arsenal. That much is clear on a daily basis. Now he's slurring his fucking words. Even without the Russia issue we are in danger!

ecstatic

(32,701 posts)
50. Not quite
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 12:58 PM
Dec 2017

Although that's supposedly the norm now.

Re: “high crimes and misdemeanors”

As can be found in historical references of the period, the phrase in its original meaning is interpreted as "for whatever reason whatsoever". This phrase covers all or any crime that abuses office. Benjamin Franklin asserted that the power of impeachment and removal was necessary for those times when the Executive "rendered himself obnoxious," and the Constitution should provide for the "regular punishment of the Executive when his conduct should deserve it, and for his honorable acquittal when he should be unjustly accused." James Madison said, "...impeachment... was indispensable" to defend the community against "the incapacity, negligence or perfidy of the chief Magistrate." With a single executive, Madison argued, unlike a legislature whose collective nature provided security, "loss of capacity or corruption was more within the compass of probable events, and either of them might be fatal to the Republic.

Officials accused of “high crimes and misdemeanors” were accused of offenses as varied as misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, not spending money allocated by Parliament, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament, losing a ship by neglecting to moor it, helping “suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament,” granting warrants without cause, and bribery. Some of these charges were crimes. Others were not.

The very difficult case of impeaching someone in the House of Representatives and removing that person in the Senate by a vote of two-thirds majority in the Senate was meant to be the check to balance against efforts to easily remove people from office for minor reasons that could easily be determined by the standard of "high crimes and misdemeanors". It was George Mason who offered up the term "high crimes and misdemeanors" as one of the criteria to remove public officials who abuse their office. Their original intentions can be gleaned by the phrases and words that were proposed before, such as "high misdemeanor", "maladministration", or "other crime". Edmund Randolf said impeachment should be reserved for those who "misbehave". Cotesworth Pinkney said, It should be reserved "...for those who behave amiss, or betray their public trust." As can be seen from all these references to "high crimes and misdemeanors", there is no concrete definition for the term, except to allow people to remove an official for office for subjective reasons entirely.

Alexander Hamilton said, "...those offences which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated political, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanors#United_States


By the originally intended standard, we have more than enough infractions. Failure to divest from companies, profiting off his office, lying everyday, bringing down the image of the United States, fighting with allies, stoking racial tension, bragging about sexual assault, appointing at least 10 unfit people to crucial positions,

onenote

(42,700 posts)
17. Why? Because it was the correct vote at this time.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:22 PM
Dec 2017

Which explains why 125 other Democrats joined her in voting in favor of the motion to table Rep. Green's utterly lame impeachment resolution while only 58 voted against the motion. More Democrats on the Judiciary Committee, including Reps. Nadler, Lofgren, and Jeffries, supported tabling the resolution than opposed the motion.

Why? Well, for one thing, if one wants to undercut the Mueller investigation, starting impeachment proceedings while he's still investigating is a pretty good way to do so. For another thing, it was a particularly stupid impeachment resolution. Did it seek to impeach Trump for collusion with the Russians? For obstruction of justice? For any particular acts of corruption or violation of the emoluments clause?

No. It sought to impeach Trump for "sowing discord among the people of the United States" and for bring "disrepute, ridicule and disgrace on the Presidency" and for acting "in a matter antithetical to the cause of a just society."

Do I think Trump has done all of those things? Yes.
Do I think those things are impeachable offenses -- and that the public in general would ever get behind an effort to impeach for those things? Not. A. Chance.

Symbolic gestures may have a point sometimes. Stupid ones never do.

mvd

(65,173 posts)
18. She can't put the genie back in the bottle
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:24 PM
Dec 2017

The drumbeat has started and will only get louder. Of course I would vote to impeach right now. There's a ton of stuff already that is worse than what Clinton did.

Kimchijeon

(1,606 posts)
26. Oh I know, but isn't it all about "symbolically showing our pure high moral ground"
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 03:08 PM
Dec 2017

....oh wait, no that was when the lynch mob used it as the excuse to shoot ourselves in the head with Franken.

Best not to put your neck out there and make yourself a target, let's just uh, "wait" and maybe fascism will stop all by itself!!

LOL



Bettie

(16,101 posts)
31. Even if, by some miracle, we win the house and senate in 2018
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 03:14 PM
Dec 2017

I am absolutely positive that Pelosi's first statement will be "impeachment is off the table".

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
61. Why do I feel that you are absolutely correct?
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 02:04 PM
Dec 2017

The 'right time' to call for Dumpf's impeachment will never get here!

 

The_Casual_Observer

(27,742 posts)
32. "people calling themselves Antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation"
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 03:14 PM
Dec 2017

What do you expect from this reactionary?

bdamomma

(63,849 posts)
33. when will be the time Nancy???
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 03:16 PM
Dec 2017

when he decides to launch missiles at the North Korea???? Let me keep quiet, I am upset enough today.

onenote

(42,700 posts)
42. Maybe when something that isn't as stupid as Green's resolution is proposed?
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 12:56 AM
Dec 2017

Something that isn't opposed by more than two out of three Democratic members of the House?

bdamomma

(63,849 posts)
34. this little tidbit is interesting
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 03:25 PM
Dec 2017
“Congress faces a vast set of urgent, overdue priorities for the American people," the Democratic leaders said in a joint statement. "Democrats are firmly focused on taking real, effective steps to improve the lives of hard-working Americans and defeating Republicans’ cruel barrage of attacks on the middle class."

So Nancy the "urgent over due priorities" now is to put impeachment on the table. Unless you are waiting for 2018 election while the Russians/ Repigs steal that election too.

Geez, listen to the American People!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have a sick bastard in the WH. Stop assuming what the American people need this is what we want to get him out.
 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
43. No Pelosi did not vote "no" on impeaching tRump. There was no up/down vote on impeachment.
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 04:01 AM
Dec 2017

She did vote to table the resolution ... which yes, in effect, killed it.

But do you even know what the articles were in the resolution? The two articles were ...

1) Associating the Presidency "with white nationalism, neo-Nazism, and hate."
2) Accusing tRump of "inciting hatred and hostility" including badly handling transgendered troops and Puerto Rico

And that's it, seriously. There was nothing about collusion with Russia. There was nothing about him not divesting himself of his business interests and profiting off the Presidency. There was nothing about his sexual assault or harassment.

This was seriously a joke of a resolution and I'm surprised it got as much backing as it did.

ananda

(28,859 posts)
51. The Dems are just worthless these days!
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:00 PM
Dec 2017

It's just amazing to me that they don't understand
that the great majority of people want them to fight
45 and the rightwing machine, including the trolls
who targeted Franken!!!!!!

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
53. And According To This Poster....
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:06 PM
Dec 2017

"The Dems are just worthless these days!" <------ #FYI -- we are calling out the hypocrisy only and we DO NOT THINK the same.

MFM008

(19,808 posts)
54. After 2018
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:25 PM
Dec 2017

Impeachment will be far more difficult to ignore with a bunch of new fire breathing democrats coming into
Congress.

bluedigger

(17,086 posts)
57. "Now is not the time..."
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:38 PM
Dec 2017

I guess that leaves us with thoughts and prayers, then. Those always work well.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
62. Yup that will help those 13 million folks losing health care next year
Fri Dec 8, 2017, 02:08 PM
Dec 2017

Then the republicans will get down to their holy grail...the destruction of Social Security/Medicaid/Medicare.

Will it be time to call for Dump's impeachment then??

Probably not.

Response to Joe941 (Original post)

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