HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Al's punishment should fi...

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:08 AM

Al's punishment should fit the crime.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that everything Al Franken is accused of is true. The one-time groping (captured in a picture), the kissing, the squeezing.

Notice that this list of Al's "crimes" does not include murder, rape, attempted rape, kidnapping, treason, bribery, felony theft, or lying under oath. Al is accused of bad behavior to be sure, but nothing serious.

Al apologized. He sincerely apologized. He apologized for things he wasn't sure he even did. That is the mark of a man, a man trying to do the right thing.

So let the punishment fit the crime. And that would be probation. A letter of admonishment in your file. Not the loss of your livelihood. Not the loss of your job.

There is NO REASON why Franken should resign. At most, the Senate should pass a resolution of disapproval. Why even Democrat senators are calling for Al's head, that is beyond me. Is a misdemeanor now a capital offense?

37 replies, 3214 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply Al's punishment should fit the crime. (Original post)
Shemp Howard Dec 2017 OP
dchill Dec 2017 #1
Pachamama Dec 2017 #2
dchill Dec 2017 #3
Maraya1969 Dec 2017 #8
Shemp Howard Dec 2017 #11
Maraya1969 Dec 2017 #14
Shemp Howard Dec 2017 #5
dchill Dec 2017 #7
Maraya1969 Dec 2017 #9
mythology Dec 2017 #20
califootman Dec 2017 #22
Demit Dec 2017 #29
tavalon Dec 2017 #35
rainin Dec 2017 #4
yallerdawg Dec 2017 #28
quickesst Dec 2017 #6
Maraya1969 Dec 2017 #10
LisaL Dec 2017 #18
mythology Dec 2017 #24
Demit Dec 2017 #31
More_Cowbell Dec 2017 #12
spike91nz Dec 2017 #13
Raster Dec 2017 #15
suegeo Dec 2017 #16
Soxfan58 Dec 2017 #17
flamingdem Dec 2017 #21
uponit7771 Dec 2017 #19
lillypaddle Dec 2017 #23
CTyankee Dec 2017 #25
tavalon Dec 2017 #36
RandomAccess Dec 2017 #27
Shemp Howard Dec 2017 #33
democratisphere Dec 2017 #26
Nevernose Dec 2017 #30
Demit Dec 2017 #32
Shemp Howard Dec 2017 #34
tavalon Dec 2017 #37

Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:12 AM

1. Since there was no crime, there should be no punishment.

But due process is really, really a right. A RIGHT.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dchill (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:16 AM

2. +1000

Due Process is an essential right....

And the foundation of our democracy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pachamama (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:18 AM

3. Indeed. That's what many have died for.

We should honor that fact.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pachamama (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 04:19 AM

8. Can Franken demand an investigation?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 05:01 AM

11. That's exactly what he did!

Franken himself asked for an ethics investigation. Here's what he said: “I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.”

But more than 30 Democrat senators said no. There must not be any investigation! Franken must resign, and he must resign now.

I can understand why a Republican senator would say that. That's politics. But 30+ Democrat senators said it. No to due process. No to an investigation.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 05:27 AM

14. I think he should just keep on being a Senator and ask again for an ethics investigation

and they can chose either "yes" or "no" Either way he win

He is being bullied by those people. Bullying doesn't have an age limit

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dchill (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:28 AM

5. Due process is certainly a right.

I really can't blame Franken for folding. The pressure on him must have been enormous. I can only imagine the phone calls he must have gotten.

But I sure do blame the Democratic senators who abandoned him. The ones who thought due process shouldn't apply here. The ones who thought this small "scandal" was enough to destroy a man's career and reputation.

If I could offer only one piece of advice to Franken, it would be this: Don't resign! But if you feel you must resign, run for your own vacated seat. Don't let those feckless Democratic senators decide. Let the voters decide.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:41 AM

7. "Let the voters decide..."

They already did. I'm sure Minnesotans agree.

The 33 Democrats aren't concerned with destroying a man's career or reputation. They're concerned about their own headline font size.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dchill (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 04:25 AM

9. I think that is backfiring against them already. Just look at Gillibrandd' FB page or look at the

comments on her Twitter page.

I bet it never occurred to her that, "We The People" would fight back. And to such a great degree.

If anyone wants to comment just go to Titter and Facebook and click on something she wrote. That is where people are complaining.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dchill (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 11:09 AM

20. Groping is generally a crime

 

Due process doesn't apply. The government isn't prosecuting him. He's resigning from his job. I had a coworker once be forced to do the same after being arrested masturbating on the train. The company certainly didn't wait until he was convicted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mythology (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 11:33 AM

22. But the picture did not show him groping Ms. Tweeden. (n/t)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mythology (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:27 PM

29. So there were witnesses to what your coworker did.

 

The police didn't arrest him for no reason, and your company didn't force him out based on hearsay.

You really nailed that comparison, lol.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mythology (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 12, 2017, 01:05 AM

35. Due Process in the Senate is an Ethics investigation

Which Franken asked for and instead was railroaded.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:22 AM

4. Not only is he losing his livelihood, but his reputation is being dragged through the mud. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rainin (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:26 PM

28. Just to be clear:

Sen. Al Franken's resignation weeks after facing allegations he groped and kissed women without their consent, will cost him his $174,000 salary from that position.

However, he has other streams of income, according a financial disclosure he filed earlier this year.

The Democratic senator from Minnesota received about $164,000 in pension payments in 2016, apparently from his time in the entertainment industry. He also received a $332,750 advance for his latest book, “Giant of the Senate,” which came out earlier this year. In 2015, The Huffington Post reported the book deal was worth at least $1 million, which made it to No. 1 on the New York Times Bestseller list.

Prior to his time in Congress, Franken was a writer for NBC's "Saturday Night Live" and had various roles onscreen. He'd also had several best-selling books, with more than 2 million copies sold even before "Giant of the Senate" came out.

Franken also could qualify for an annual pension of roughly $24,000 from his time in Congress, according to a calculation from the National Taxpayers Union, which is a Washington D.C.-based conservative-leaning nonprofit.

His estimated net worth as of 2015 was just over $7 million, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2017/12/what-resignation-will-cost-al-franken.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:40 AM

6. Those who called for Al franken's resignation...

... faster than a speeding bullet, are in my opinion, a major reason we can't have nice things.................... like a majority.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 04:43 AM

10. Listen to this anonymous accuser and tell me if she didn't get her idea from #45

"The unidentified accuser, who is a former Democratic congressional aide, spoke to Politico and shared how she says she ducked to avoid Franken kissing her as she tried to leave the radio studio.

She said that as she left the room, he allegedly said "It's my right as an entertainer," according to Politico."

Al Franken categorically denies he ever said that statement.

I have read all of them and I smell a bunch of fishes.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/sen-al-frankens-accusers-accusations-made/story?id=51406862

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 07:13 AM

18. That does sound just like some of the accusations against Trump.

And anonymous, so of course we don't know anything about the accuser, yet she is counted as a victim.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 11:46 AM

24. It also sounds like what Harvey Weinstein would do

 

It's not exactly uncommon to try to leverage relative power.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:40 PM

31. And I've read at least two accusers say that their stories are "eerily similar."

 

That was an odd emphasis. It struck me because 1) it seemed out of place for a victim to editorialize about her own experience and 2) the stories were NOT all similar.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 05:16 AM

12. I feel like a decent person's first instinct is to apologize, no matter what

That's what *I* do, as soon as I find out that I offended someone.

And I think that Al Franken is a decent person, although I don't have any problem believing that, especially in his "comedian" days, he behaved differently than he does today.

And I think that the "decent person" response is endemic to Democrats and not Republicans. Therefore, we suffer.

I'd love to see a full investigation. I'd love to hear Leann Tweeden's response to her friend Tom Arnold's accusations. Other than her, I'm willing to believe most of the accusers. Let's have an investigation!

I think that if we don't investigate these things, then Democrats are going to resign and Republicans (except for people who encouraged their mistresses to have abortions, which seems to be the GOP hard line) will stay.

That doesn't help *anyone.*

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 05:18 AM

13. Agree

Agreed

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 06:08 AM

15. Senator Franken SHOULD NOT RESIGN...

...There should be a formal Ethics Investigation, where all parties are put under oath. I guarantee Leeann Tweeden IS. A. LIAR. This is a setup and a rat-fucking, courtesy of Roger Stone* and the rethuglican dirty tricks gang.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 06:12 AM

16. Let's not assume that everything is true

and that it was all republican rat fucking. And the fascists are stealing another senate seat, where they will fling down all kinds of shit on people who don't deserve it.

But I get what you're saying. There are laws, some crimes are worse than others, and the punishments for breaking different kinds are laws are different because who would throw someone in jail for years for jay walking? Unless they are out to get slave labor, and I wouldn't put that past some of the republicans and billionaires.

'But fuck it. Al didn't do anything wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 07:10 AM

17. I think they should come down on him hard!!!

And give him the 2020 President or VP nomination.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soxfan58 (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 11:27 AM

21. +100

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 10:27 AM

19. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 11:41 AM

23. I have to say this

When Al first ran for office, there were all kinds of negative ads, including a picture of him rolling around on a bed in a diaper. I never found that type of humor funny, but oh well ... it was the type of humor found on SNL at the time. As far as I know, he hasn't rolled around in a diaper during his senate term, has he?

The picture of him ALMOST cupping Tweeden's breasts is the same sort of thing - and was obviously supposed to be a joke as he was mugging for the camera, and it was not while he was in office.

As for Tina Dupuy, she is washed up and is looking for attention, IMHO. I am furious that Al Franken has been forced out over this shit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lillypaddle (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:08 PM

25. I think the photo is what did him in.

We shoulda known that this is the kind of politics that the Republicans play now are political long knives. They want to eviscerate our party and they will stop at nothing. We have now had to sacrifice one of our best Democrats in politics over what is obviously a plot to ruin our Party.

We'd better stop being defensive and go on the offense.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CTyankee (Reply #25)

Tue Dec 12, 2017, 01:09 AM

36. Notice this coordinated attack didn't happen until his name was being floated

as a possible Presidential candidate and after he single handedly took the Keebler Elf to the woodshed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lillypaddle (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:22 PM

27. LOL - But David Vitter has!!!

 

Couldn't resist.

he hasn't rolled around in a diaper during his senate term, has he?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lillypaddle (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:49 PM

33. The so-called diaper photo was faked.

That diaper photo was faked.

https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2009/05/04/drudge-smears-joker-franken-with-doctored-photo/149789

But the so-called groping photo was real. And as CTyankee said, that was a big problem for Al. I thought he addressed it honestly, and sincerely. Even the woman involved accepted his apology.

http://time.com/5028172/leeann-tweeden-al-franken-apology/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:17 PM

26. What crime? There was no crime committed BY Al Franken!

A crime has been committed TO Al Franken!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shemp Howard (Original post)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:34 PM

30. Some of the accusations arent even accusations

Which is the thing that I find the most maddening.

“He kissed me on the cheek, but I could tell that he secretly WANTED to tongue kiss me while the New England Women’s Society watched.” That’s not an accusation, that’s crazy talk.

Her corroboration was a person at the same event that said “I was there and it’s true. I know because Al Franken looked at my boobs.” That’s like an SNL skit. Certainly nothing a reasonable person should take seriously.

“Once, when we were total strangers and met for the first time, I could tell that Al Franken WANTED to kiss me. Then he quoted Donald Trump’s ‘when you’re a star’ line.” That’s not an accusation of wrong doing. It’s a claim of psychic powers.

“While posing for pictures he put his hand around my waist and gave me what might have been a playful squeeze, but I had body weight/self-esteem issues” isn’t an allegation of wrongdoing. There is no allegation there. Even if he did exactly what she said, there is no allegation of wrongdoing, legal, moral, any possible way. “That’s how I know he sexually assaulted those other anonymous accusers” is just kind of insulting after the that.

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nevernose (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:47 PM

32. LOL Don't forget the one who said he had his hand on her breast for 5 or 10 seconds

 

and offers as proof a photo that shows no such thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nevernose (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 11, 2017, 01:01 PM

34. You should have written Al's Senate speech!

You made many good points there. This situation is maddening indeed.

There is only one legitimate incident in this whole mess, the so-called groping incident. Franken offered a sincere apology for that, and the woman involved accepted his apology.

That should have been the end of it. And it would have been, if Franken's colleagues in the Senate hadn't stabbed him in the back.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nevernose (Reply #30)

Tue Dec 12, 2017, 01:11 AM

37. We've all been taking crazy pills

for near unto 2 years now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread