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redstatebluegirl

(12,265 posts)
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 12:46 PM Dec 2017

I said this last fall before the Trump win and I will say it again.

Last edited Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:17 PM - Edit history (1)

As Democrats we have many faults, one is turning on each other, the other is not showing up to vote because the polls either say we are going to win big or because it appears a lost cause. We added one last year when some but not all of the Bernie supporters said they "wanted to blow up the system and send a message".

2018 cannot be ignored, we must beat them back, we must do it soundly. We cannot stand by and let someone else do it, we must do it. Every single vote counts, if we allow them to divide us further, if we allow ourselves to believe that somehow everyone hates Trump and the Republicans and will send them packing, we will be destroyed along with our country.

FYI all of us have had to hold our noses from time to time and vote for a Democrat we didn't like or did not agree with. In every single case where I did that, the Democrat, with all their flaws, was head and shoulders better than the alternative.

Vote, help get out the vote, help get the message out about what they are doing to our great country. Do it every single day, make calls, knock on doors, give money if you can. Just do what we need to do to recapture this country while we still can.

79 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I said this last fall before the Trump win and I will say it again. (Original Post) redstatebluegirl Dec 2017 OP
Thank you. NastyRiffraff Dec 2017 #1
Exactly! redstatebluegirl Dec 2017 #4
After a while during the campaign, I had to assume that everyone lampshading Hillary Clinton Aristus Dec 2017 #5
i figured anyone who thought they were the same had made bad... samnsara Dec 2017 #16
I know what you mean. There were some folks I just gave up arguing with. calimary Dec 2017 #50
Yeah, but how did that turn out? We have to sink them first. Alice11111 Dec 2017 #71
I know some in real life. They're brainwashed. yardwork Dec 2017 #72
THIS. calimary Dec 2017 #9
bingo! n/t getagrip_already Dec 2017 #14
K & R...for visibility...nt Wounded Bear Dec 2017 #2
This. calimary Dec 2017 #10
We do turn on ourselves SHRED Dec 2017 #3
THIS! THIS! THIS! calimary Dec 2017 #19
Love you Calimary! redstatebluegirl Dec 2017 #23
Love you back, redstatebluegirl! calimary Dec 2017 #51
Same here... in 2016. I agree with every word. maddiemom Dec 2017 #66
I'll kick this RandomAccess Dec 2017 #6
So will I, RandomAccess. calimary Dec 2017 #20
Yep Clarity2 Dec 2017 #31
I work with graduate students. redstatebluegirl Dec 2017 #75
No, I never said ALL of them were RandomAccess Dec 2017 #77
I'm sure many of us dread what may happen on DU as 2020 nears. kstewart33 Dec 2017 #7
But we still have people who are BOB. redstatebluegirl Dec 2017 #24
Best hope is that Dems and Independents stick with the Democratic nominee. kstewart33 Dec 2017 #35
We must win in 2018, I don't think we last until 2020 if we don't. redstatebluegirl Dec 2017 #37
THIS! calimary Dec 2017 #8
Yes. Absolutely. Thank you! MineralMan Dec 2017 #11
This. And yes, thank you from me, too! calimary Dec 2017 #21
Right On Vidal Dec 2017 #12
Welcome to DU, Vidal! calimary Dec 2017 #22
Kick and recommend in agreement and because our lives depend on it. bronxiteforever Dec 2017 #13
Heck, they don't even want the word "science" spoken at the CDC. calimary Dec 2017 #25
Agree, I guess the CDC will use the phrase stork delivery bronxiteforever Dec 2017 #38
I'd bet instead of "fetus," they'd order the replacement to be "unborn child." calimary Dec 2017 #47
Mmmm Cheese Tits snort Dec 2017 #70
solemn kick and rec. n/t BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2017 #15
A solemn thank you! calimary Dec 2017 #26
💙. n/t BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2017 #55
I think your third paragraph is key. Neema Dec 2017 #17
That is the ABSOLUTE key. calimary Dec 2017 #29
I was a Bernie Supporter Jspur Dec 2017 #18
What they can do to the supreme court should have been enough for those who wanted to stick it out. redstatebluegirl Dec 2017 #27
I agree it's Jspur Dec 2017 #32
Don't forget - back in June of 2015, GOPers were pushing Bernie, to hurt Hillary. calimary Dec 2017 #33
Yep, but when you said that to a Bernie supporter they went ballistic! redstatebluegirl Dec 2017 #43
Yep. True. calimary Dec 2017 #48
Actually, it's "Keep your Government hands off my Medicare". Morans. SammyWinstonJack Dec 2017 #69
Welcome to DU, Jspur! calimary Dec 2017 #39
Hillary was NOT the lesser of two evils. murielm99 Dec 2017 #53
There was absolutely no way to support this, throughout the campaign. calimary Dec 2017 #62
Re-examine what you think you know about Hillary Clinton. yardwork Dec 2017 #73
I say that and do that every day louis c Dec 2017 #28
Indeed. calimary Dec 2017 #40
I'm with you PJMcK Dec 2017 #30
Thank you, sometimes passionate and direct gets me called a b.... :-). redstatebluegirl Dec 2017 #36
So am I, PJMcK. calimary Dec 2017 #42
Divided, conquered and subsequently impoverished often seems the only motivator lambchopp59 Dec 2017 #34
I believe souls can be saved. It's just that not all of them want to be saved. calimary Dec 2017 #44
The Deplorables... Mike Nelson Dec 2017 #41
Damn tootin', Mike Nelson! calimary Dec 2017 #45
I think the vitriol of some Clinton and Sanders supporters is a problem. David__77 Dec 2017 #46
Some were so emotionally involved with it that it couldn't be helped, I guess. calimary Dec 2017 #52
In 2018 there will be no Russians, no Hillary, no Bernie and no Stein to blame. Sneederbunk Dec 2017 #49
Sometimes I actually find myself wondering - ten or more years down the line - calimary Dec 2017 #58
K and R BadgerMom Dec 2017 #54
No kidding, BadgerMom! calimary Dec 2017 #59
Midterms, Midterms, Midterms! Heartstrings Dec 2017 #56
Yes, Yes, Yes! calimary Dec 2017 #60
I agree with your post 100%, and then we read on HP Ferrets are Cool Dec 2017 #57
Yeah, well, are we sure the turncoat isn't just another bot, trying to stir shit up? calimary Dec 2017 #61
I hadn't thought of that. It is certainly a possibilty.nm Ferrets are Cool Dec 2017 #65
K&R. Paladin Dec 2017 #63
Please quite reviving zentrum Dec 2017 #64
It HAS TO BE DONE. Honeycombe8 Dec 2017 #67
2018 is the only way to take back America Pepsidog Dec 2017 #68
Purity testing will be the death of us. nolabear Dec 2017 #74
Per George Stephanaplous quartz007 Dec 2017 #76
bs to your saidsimplesimon Dec 2017 #78
You cant hold your nose and save democracy at the same time. Eliot Rosewater Dec 2017 #79

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
1. Thank you.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 12:53 PM
Dec 2017

A lot of us yelled, screamed, cried out about this very thing before the election. Some listened, but too many just couldn't possibly no no no don't tell me how to vote I can't vote for Hillary Clinton because my conscience etc.etc. etc. We are now living with the consequences.

Vote Democratic. Period. Even if you have to hold your nose; just vote before you pass out or die from lack of oxygen.

Aristus

(66,352 posts)
5. After a while during the campaign, I had to assume that everyone lampshading Hillary Clinton
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 01:03 PM
Dec 2017
had to be a TrumpTroll. Simply because no one with a functioning brain, heart, and soul could possibly believe the idiotic assertion that she and Trump were essentially the same thing, and that Hillary winning the election would be a disaster for the country.

"But Hillary..."

"But her e-mails..."

"But her Wall Street speeches..."

"But...but...but..."


The nattering maggots sunk the nation...

samnsara

(17,622 posts)
16. i figured anyone who thought they were the same had made bad...
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:18 PM
Dec 2017

...choices in the past so I distanced myself from them because they just aint right in the haid.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
50. I know what you mean. There were some folks I just gave up arguing with.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:53 PM
Dec 2017

There was no point. Useless! NO amount of facts, documentation, or independent confirmation swayed them. So I guess that's where you do the proverbial "shake it off your shoes and move on" thing.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
71. Yeah, but how did that turn out? We have to sink them first.
Sun Dec 17, 2017, 04:24 AM
Dec 2017

We need preemptive stricks. We are too nice to them.
They are like executioners and not to be trusted, or underestimated. They would sell their mothers, kill children for lack of medical treatment or food, or commit treason, to win...and without any compunctions either.

yardwork

(61,608 posts)
72. I know some in real life. They're brainwashed.
Sun Dec 17, 2017, 12:50 PM
Dec 2017

Russian troll farms created websites, memes, Facebook identities and articles, Reddit sites, and generally overwhelmed the internet with false stories that convinced otherwise intelligent people that up is down, good is evil, etc.

Too many of these people are still confused.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
3. We do turn on ourselves
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 12:56 PM
Dec 2017

I for one voted in 2010 and as an initial Bernie supporter quickly jumped to our candidate Hillary.

We have a two party system in this country.
I am disappointed he reverted back to Independent.
I am not looking to fuel our internal struggles I am merely suggesting that purity tests hurt us and hurt progressive momentum.
Politics is not an absolute but rather on a spectrum.
For me the Democratic Party is the only "spectrum", the only choice being pragmatic about it.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
19. THIS! THIS! THIS!
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:40 PM
Dec 2017

Face it, friends. ALL WE'VE GOT is TWO parties.

And, frankly, that's about all there is, for the foreseeable future. ANY third party that pops up IS GOING TO BE NOTHING BUT A SPOILER. I don't care how it's spun or excused or whined about. I don't care if there's a galaxy's worth of wishing and hoping. What IS, IS.

I almost hate to be a hard-ass about it, my apologies in advance. But dammit, what will it take to get through on this? One would think that this, now, is the direct result of all of that inter-party division we suffered last year. You do that? You get THIS. It's the classic "if, then" proposition some of us heard discussed in science class and even in some math classes. If you add 2 and 2, then you get 4. ALWAYS. And those who try to insist that if you add 1 and 2, you get the desired and assumed answer of 4, too. Only better! Because belief or faith or something or other. And dammit, that's just plain ol' fucking WRONG!!!!!

And I'm sorry to yell here, too. Probably why some of our DU brothers and sisters find me totally boorish. (And rightly so!) But sometimes, I've gotta say, I envy the GOP. You know that old cliche, "Democrats fall in love, republi-CONS fall in line"? Well, THEY fall in line, and THEY WIN. All while we continue fighting with each other, locked out of power - AGAIN.

And take a lesson from the GOP. And Ross Perot. Those of us old enough to have been around during the 1992 and 1996 campaigns, That good ol' rich wanker Ross Perot got in there, too, on a ridiculous ego trip many of us on our side saw through. Enough other suckers on the opposite side of the aisle didn't that his presence on the ballot as a third party spoiler effectively robbed George HW Bush first, and then Bob Dole four years later, of the win they might otherwise have scored. If those gone rogue had avoided falling in love with the renegade, and folded into the mainstream candidate, we would not have had a President Bill Clinton.

Old crank that I am by now, I'm old enough to remember some of this as far back as when I was in high school and joined the Student Coalition for Humphrey/Muskie. I wasn't old enough to vote yet, and neither were the "upperclassmen", but I remember they were all for Gene McCarthy, a renegade Democrat pulling votes away from Vice President Humphrey, but with no realistic or practical chances of actually winning the nomination and being party standard-bearer. There were other things complicating the picture, too, and I'm sure I wasn't old enough or involved enough to know all the details. Like LBJ's unpopular Vietnam policies that Humphrey was seen as willing to continue. HOWEVER, with some place else to go instead of sticking with the team, enough Democrats were romanced away from Humphrey/Muskie - and as bad as you thought Hubert Humphrey was, well, guess who we wound up with instead? Richard Nixon. The republi-CON. Think we learned anything from that? The GOP sure did. Divide And Conquer. That's what they learned.

I don't want to "fall in love." I want to WIN. Falling in love takes your mind and your heart way high up into the clouds, when you really need to be firmly feet-on-the-ground and eyes-wide-open and working in the real world. Sometimes it's harsh and cold but that's often where the reality is. No starry-eyed fantasy Eden for me. I found that, through the years ever since I've been old enough to vote, I tended to go for the practical over the romantic, the realistic over the appealing-but-unrealistic.

Head over heart. Because at least for me, through years of experience, I've learned that my heart is more likely than not to lead me astray. I remember getting an offer from another station in town, a bigger AM pop rock station that offered me an actual Monday-through-Friday on-air shift, rather than the FM rocker where I'd finally achieved my dream of being hired. But I was hired as a weekender, and that was that. When the other station came along with a rock-solid offer of a full-time job and better money, the FMer started offering lots of promises of full time something-or-other, at sometime-or-other in the future somewhere. And a lesser raise. But they were the FM station I'd always loved and wanted to work for. I decided to take the bird in the hand instead of the lovebirds beating around the bush somewhere. One of the full-time DJs stopped me in the hall and grabbed me by the shoulders. "Don't do it! You have to stay! Go with your heart!" My heart told me to stay. My head said "Leave! Don't trust the promises from the wanker and the snake of a new PD you instinctively don't trust. Grab the firm offer and run-don't walk before they change their minds." So I did. Within a year later, I was morning drive anchor (they'd originally hired me for middays) and titled (news director). And over at the FM, they never did open anything up for another full-time news shift, and really nothing had changed the way they'd hinted might happen.

Picking a president is a head-over-heart decision, too. Seems to me, at least. In all my years, that's how it seems to have played out, from what I've observed, anyway.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
6. I'll kick this
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 01:04 PM
Dec 2017

And add the reminder that some of those Bernie supporters who "wanted to blow up the system and send a message" were Russian bots and such. Probably a LOT of them.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
20. So will I, RandomAccess.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:43 PM
Dec 2017

This is SO important. Goes way beyond Bernie or whoever it'll be in 2020, or 2024.

I suspect you're right about the bots. And you're right about the "send a message!' crap. Yep, anybody who votes that way - you sure do send a message, alright. Not the one you thought you were sending. But you sure sent a message, alright.

Clarity2

(1,009 posts)
31. Yep
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:16 PM
Dec 2017

Absolutely right they were. And I’ll bet, many purportedly in the tea party. They arent kidding when they say there has been a right wing conspiracy.

I still see what are obviously russian troll accts on my local newspaper comments section. I spend a lot of time pointing them out and fighting their disinfo, but they go on the attack, and it becomes exhausting. But they are everywhere.

redstatebluegirl

(12,265 posts)
75. I work with graduate students.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 12:59 PM
Dec 2017

More than a few of them said those words when they felt Bernie was screwed by the party. They kept screaming about how the system had to be blown up before it could be fixed. When I asked if they would be voting they said no, not if Bernie was not on the ticket. They stayed home. So not all of them are bots, some may be, but some are real.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
77. No, I never said ALL of them were
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 01:08 PM
Dec 2017

HOWEVER, those Russian bots were perfectly happy to capitalize on and promote those sentiments.

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
7. I'm sure many of us dread what may happen on DU as 2020 nears.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 01:31 PM
Dec 2017

Deep divisions escalated into a war on DU. I've been a member since 2001 and I never experienced what we experienced here at DU during the 2016 nomination campaign.

We must band together. In less than a year's time, the consequences of Trump's victory have already become terrible and in some respects, irreversible. We're losing on the environment, climate change, healthcare, the judiciary, tax reform, education, you name it.

I will vote for the Democratic nominee as long as he or she can walk and talk at the same time. The stakes are too damn high to do otherwise.

redstatebluegirl

(12,265 posts)
24. But we still have people who are BOB.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:06 PM
Dec 2017

Bernie is back to being an independent but he continues to rile up a faction of the party, just enough for us to lose seats at the state and federal level in 2018. Until we decide that in order to run as a Democrat and get the financial help of the party and the party faithful you must be a registered Democrat for more than a year we are doomed.

Don't misunderstand there are things about Bernie I truly like and would love to see, is it reasonable in today's climate, nope. Wish to heaven it was but what we have to do right now is salvage the country in any way we can.

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
35. Best hope is that Dems and Independents stick with the Democratic nominee.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:20 PM
Dec 2017

We are at a turning point in our history. IMHO, Bernie is too far left to appeal to many center-left voters. We must win in 2020.

redstatebluegirl

(12,265 posts)
37. We must win in 2018, I don't think we last until 2020 if we don't.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:21 PM
Dec 2017

I put hope in Mueller but I don't bow down thinking he is the second coming. We must get together and make it happen!

 

Vidal

(642 posts)
12. Right On
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 01:44 PM
Dec 2017

You are 100% right.

We must take back Congress next year by getting out the vote as was done in Virginia and Alabama.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
22. Welcome to DU, Vidal!
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:48 PM
Dec 2017

YOU, TOO, are 100% right. We MUST take back Congress. All of it. Both houses if possible. Definitely at least one. With the House of Reps, we can start impeachment proceedings. With the Senate, we can kill the advancement of every nominee we don't like. Both houses retaken - would be preferable. Because then we can start impeachment in the House, and then gain conviction in the Senate when the House brings its case for impeachment there.

bronxiteforever

(9,287 posts)
13. Kick and recommend in agreement and because our lives depend on it.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 01:56 PM
Dec 2017

The rethugs hate us. They hate science, immigrants, dissent, a free press, compassion, logic, reason, truth and the very earth itself. The Republic is dying and 2018 might very well be the last chance to get the patient/state to triage.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
25. Heck, they don't even want the word "science" spoken at the CDC.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:07 PM
Dec 2017

"Science-based," as well as "evidence-based". There's a new list of words that you can't say at the CDC anymore. Seven words (or phrases). One is "fetus". Another is "transgender." The rest are "entitlement," "vulnerable," and "diversity."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?utm_term=.89f5c1336309


Made me think immediately about George Carlin's "Seven Words You Can't Say on Television" (ironically, that bit's title is seven words in length): "Shit," "piss," "fuck," "cunt," "cocksucker," "motherfucker," and "tits."

So many have described these times in the so-called "trump era" as upside down. Well, with this, it's now even George Carlin turned upside down!

calimary

(81,265 posts)
47. I'd bet instead of "fetus," they'd order the replacement to be "unborn child."
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:43 PM
Dec 2017

These people already know well how to fuck with the language and use it to further their own goals. There have been times when certain communities of them (usually in some red state) have added the wording "born and unborn" to pledges, prayers, and other recitations.

I'm starting to fear this trend, and beginning to wonder if we need to start thinking ahead to HOW to provide reproductive choice options after Roe v Wade is overturned. The anti-choice movement has been working toward this moment and this theft of a Supreme Court seat, all along. And they're almost to goal. And we may have to start thinking about alternative efforts and strategies to preserve a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy if that's her only realistic choice. What would it be? Some "underground railroad" or something?

My beloved father-in-law, who was a doctor, got turned around on the right to choose. He saw what can happen when there's no choice. He was out driving when he noticed a young woman, collapsed on the sidewalk, bleeding badly. She'd been the victim of an illegal abortion and she was hemmorhaging. He bundled her into the back of his car and drove her to the hospital. Probably saved her life. After that, he was a changed man. Became convinced that since there IS going to be abortion, regardless, it should at least be safe and legal. Btw - did you know Frank Sinatra's mother ran an illegal abortion service?

Neema

(1,151 posts)
17. I think your third paragraph is key.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:20 PM
Dec 2017

Too many people stayed home because their ideal candidate wasn't on the ticket. We needed those votes to overcome all the GOP dirty tricks that stole the election.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
29. That is the ABSOLUTE key.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:14 PM
Dec 2017

Besides, the "MUST be perfect" candidate doesn't even exist. There's no such thing. You have to pick the best, most practical, most likely to actually WIN. This is the REAL world. Not the fantasy one that the folks in the bubble insist must be true. What the Blues Brothers described as a "wish sandwich" - you've got two pieces of bread, and you WISH you had some meat. Too many voters get tempted by what they THINK is a "prince charming-type" or WISH was the perfect answer. There's NOBODY on earth who's perfect. Heck, even Christ our Savior, Who was as perfect as they come, threw a temper tantrum or two (that we know of, according to Scripture anyway).

Jspur

(578 posts)
18. I was a Bernie Supporter
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:24 PM
Dec 2017

who did not like Hillary at all but I still voted her because I strongly believe in always voting for the lesser of the 2 evils. For a lot of people that's not good enough but for me sometimes it comes down to not making life harder for yourself even when you don't get the most desirable option. It's like when I was in college they were certain courses I had to take that I hated but I always made sure to take the course that had the easier professor just so it wasn't as painful. Also I feared if Trump won that he would do what he's exactly doing right now with taxes, ACA, Net Neutrality. I feel a lot of of people who didn't vote really didn't have any awareness of how bad a Trump presidency would be. I think they believed that it would suck but they would be able to weather the storm. Now they are coming to the realization that it's really that bad and then some.

redstatebluegirl

(12,265 posts)
27. What they can do to the supreme court should have been enough for those who wanted to stick it out.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:09 PM
Dec 2017

They truly thought if the system blew up somehow they would win in the end. Nope, not gonna happen. It is in the best interest of the republicans to keep us divided. They love Bernie and anyone else who divides us.

Jspur

(578 posts)
32. I agree it's
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:17 PM
Dec 2017

crazy anarchist way of thinking that never works out in the end. I don't think they truly understand by blowing up the system that they are also going to go through unbearable suffering.

Unfortunately from personal experience I have found that you can never convince people to do the right thing by arguing with them how bad the alternative is going to be. You have to give them a reason to want to do the right thing. That was something Hillary unfortunately wasn't able to do.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
33. Don't forget - back in June of 2015, GOPers were pushing Bernie, to hurt Hillary.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:17 PM
Dec 2017

Anybody remember this one?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420262/republicans-should-help-bernie-sanders-weaken-hillary-myra-adams

Because they KNEW. And they figured Bernie would be easier to beat in the long run. Their opposition research was a "book" two-feet thick, according to writer-reporter Kurt Eichenwald, who described what he'd actually been shown. They were holding their fire on it, waiting for an eventual Bernie nomination, and then they were going to clobber him with it.

redstatebluegirl

(12,265 posts)
43. Yep, but when you said that to a Bernie supporter they went ballistic!
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:27 PM
Dec 2017

Just the pictures they had of him with "known communists" and the number of people in the country who don't know what socialism is and think it is communism made his election very unlikely. They used him to divide the party and beat Hillary, bottom line.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
48. Yep. True.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:51 PM
Dec 2017

Oh man, the bad guys would have CRUCIFIED him.

"Socialist!" Socialist!!!" - cried all the red-staters and teabaggers with their protest signs that shrieked "Keep Your Hands Off My Medicare!"

calimary

(81,265 posts)
39. Welcome to DU, Jspur!
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:22 PM
Dec 2017

I hope TO GOD it's as you say - "I think they believed that it would suck but they would be able to weather the storm. Now they are coming to the realization that it's really that bad and then some."

I can clearly remember hearing people actually say "meh - how bad can it be?" Yeah? Well, how do you like it now? Happy NOW?

Your post is spot-on. The naivete I saw on display in some corners was quite literally heart-breaking. I still have Alcee Hastings' words echoing painfully in my brain (echoing how I feel, also): "I'm too old for pie-in-the-sky."

murielm99

(30,740 posts)
53. Hillary was NOT the lesser of two evils.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 04:05 PM
Dec 2017

Saying this is one of the reasons we have Trump in the White House. Saying this proves the point of the OP, though.

Hillary was superbly qualified.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
62. There was absolutely no way to support this, throughout the campaign.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 08:04 PM
Dec 2017

All this shit she supposedly did, it was all lies. I have a friend who travels for work, all over the country. In the south, she says, the hatred of Hillary is "virulent." For the life of me I don't get it. Don't understand it. What did she ever do to earn such ire? I won't understand that one as long as I draw breath, particularly having learned that a lot of this shit-spreading was Russian nogoodniks and bots, as well as just plain ol' shit-stirrers. I've watched her closely since 1992 when I first discovered her. She's been my role model, my inspiration, and my heroine ever since.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
28. I say that and do that every day
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:13 PM
Dec 2017

It's a pleasure to read your post.

You capture the very essence of the work that needs to be done by people who say they care and what is, in the end, a "binary choice".

Thank you for your insight.

PJMcK

(22,037 posts)
30. I'm with you
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:14 PM
Dec 2017

Your posts are always passionate and direct, redstatebluegirl.

I agree with your thoughts here.

During the 2016 campaign, I urged everyone to vote a straight Democratic ticket.

If Democratic voters turn out in force in 2018, we can save our Republic.

redstatebluegirl

(12,265 posts)
36. Thank you, sometimes passionate and direct gets me called a b.... :-).
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:20 PM
Dec 2017

Lets hope we can GOTV, ignore some of those who would divide us and save our country.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
42. So am I, PJMcK.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:26 PM
Dec 2017

redstatebluegirl nailed it-nailed it-nailed it.

I think we all know and understand, very clearly, that there is a WORLD of difference between the two parties. At least I would hope so by now. I mean - WHAT ON EARTH ELSE do you need to see, to be convinced????

There are more of us than there are of the GOP. If we all came out to vote, we WOULD win. WAY more than we'd lose, by gerrymandering and other crap. The numbers don't lie. And the numbers are on OUR side.

lambchopp59

(2,809 posts)
34. Divided, conquered and subsequently impoverished often seems the only motivator
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:18 PM
Dec 2017

To get the "I don't do politics" variety to get out and vote. Some simply won't be receptive to encouragement towards avoid dire consequences, my fear is rattling the lazy sort may result in them voting the opposite of the better candidate simply out of spite. I can name 2 individuals offhand who would do exactly that.
In those cases, attempting to motivate them via logic compares to utilizing a logical argument against the die-hard Trumpers.
I encourage those who are receptive to GOTV. When I'm hitting the brick wall of ignorance with them, I might as well be attempting to teach a pig to sing, wasting my time, annoying the pig and often viciously counterproductive.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
44. I believe souls can be saved. It's just that not all of them want to be saved.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:29 PM
Dec 2017

They just don't see it that way. For reasons I will NEVER understand. So, I guess the remedy is, spend your valuable time encouraging those who are receptive. And physically help them into your car, drive 'em to the polls if you have to. Take 'em out for coffee afterwards. Make it an extended coffee-and-donuts date or something (with just that one extra stop along the way).

Mike Nelson

(9,955 posts)
41. The Deplorables...
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:25 PM
Dec 2017

...Reagan winked at them, GW Bush kissed them, and Crooked Donald...

They will only win if we let them.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
45. Damn tootin', Mike Nelson!
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:36 PM
Dec 2017

I've said this before, even on this thread. There are MORE OF US than there are of THEM. All we have to do is get off our asses and go vote. Or fill out an absentee ballot and send it in early enough. NOT at the last minute!

David__77

(23,396 posts)
46. I think the vitriol of some Clinton and Sanders supporters is a problem.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:38 PM
Dec 2017

People who go around typing “fuck (former candidate xyz)” are not contributing to this unity. People make it a habit/schtick of keeping old resentments alive are unhelpful.

I’m not referring to discussion of policy differences.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
52. Some were so emotionally involved with it that it couldn't be helped, I guess.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:56 PM
Dec 2017

But with some others, even clear and factual and unemotional discussions of actual realistic and practical policy differences didn't make any difference at all.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
58. Sometimes I actually find myself wondering - ten or more years down the line -
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 07:53 PM
Dec 2017

what will these assholes do after Hillary has passed, and there's no more Hillary to dump on, yell about locking up, virulently hating, or persecuting (or trying to persecute)? What will they do? What WILL they do? (Memories of that old commercial featuring actor Karl Malden. I forget what the product was, but the point was - you're stranded somewhere and your flashlight doesn't have batteries, or some other mishap that the sponsoring product would alleviate - and he asked the question straight into the camera: "What will you do? What WILL you do???"

BadgerMom

(2,771 posts)
54. K and R
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 04:08 PM
Dec 2017

We must roar. I’m ready to do everything legally possible in 2018. I’ve felt since December 1, when we could say the election is 11 months away, that we’re in a true race to save democracy and the outcome isn’t guaranteed.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
59. No kidding, BadgerMom!
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 07:56 PM
Dec 2017

We have to! What always keeps me going is when I remind myself that "if they think you don't care, THEY WON'T, EITHER!"

Ferrets are Cool

(21,106 posts)
57. I agree with your post 100%, and then we read on HP
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 05:34 PM
Dec 2017

this crap....
"Dear Democratic Party:

You were the love of my life. I fell in love early and hard. I have been the kind of party loyalist ― the kind of sappy, soapbox-y, clichéd devotee ― that makes Fox News moonwalk with glee.

The first vote I ever cast, at 18, was for Bill Clinton. The last vote I cast was for his wife, Hillary. My adoration for Hillary bordered on mania. In college, I named my ficus plant after her. Twenty years later, I canvassed, held fundraisers, dragged my 8-year-old daughter door to door, proudly wore HRC’s face on T-shirts and housed campaign volunteers in my home.

I loved you so much that I cried each time I voted. Thinking about the women who died fighting for my right to vote did it every time. I cried when I voted for Bill. For Barack Obama. I wept when I voted for Hillary. You’ve been that kind of mad love to me.

And now I want to break up."

More at link: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brown-women-democratic-party_us_5a31a32de4b07ff75b001456?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

While I do understand about the party not being "GOOD" enough, where the fuck at you gonna go and what the fuck do you think sitting it out is gonna accomplish?

calimary

(81,265 posts)
61. Yeah, well, are we sure the turncoat isn't just another bot, trying to stir shit up?
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 08:00 PM
Dec 2017

I've decided, at least for myself, that I need to keep posts like that on ignore.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
64. Please quite reviving
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 08:16 PM
Dec 2017

...the Bernie bashing.

Most Bernie supporters voted for her in the General.

So let it go and find another set of words to encouarge Dems to vote.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
67. It HAS TO BE DONE.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:28 PM
Dec 2017

I'll start thinking what I can do here in my Repub area. We have a high minority population. I feel that most of them are Democratic leaning, but my parish votes Repub. Why is that? Hmmmm.

And altho it's Repub here, I've seen posts in local forums where area people believe in climate change & that humans are involved. That sounds Democratic to me. But the Dems are invisible. The Dem Party doesn't even have a presence here.

I need to check on that.

nolabear

(41,963 posts)
74. Purity testing will be the death of us.
Sun Dec 17, 2017, 01:02 PM
Dec 2017

We have to learn to ACTUALLY have a big tent, not just one that makes us feel superior.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
78. bs to your
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 01:15 PM
Dec 2017

"some say(like you or who)that Bernie supporters said they "wanted to blow up the system and send a message".)

Never, ever did Senator Sanders say or do anything that supports this bias on your part., imo

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