The latest version of Democratic Underground, aka DU4, is now open for early access beta testing!

[EarlG]

This discussion thread was locked by EarlG (a host of the Announcements group).

Many of you know that Elad and I have been working on a new update to our software, known as DU4, for quite some time. Over the past three years I've talked about it and shown off screenshots, and some of you have even tried it out for short periods of time, helping us test early versions.

As promised last week, anyone who purchased or renewed their Star Membership during the Summer Fund Drive can access the beta right now. Access to all site visitors will be opened up two weeks from tomorrow, on September 5 (the day after Labor Day).

For those of you who want to try it out, simply go to your browser's address bar, and replace "www" with "du4" -- or just visit this link:

https://du4.democraticunderground.com

You may want to set a DU4 bookmark in your browser so you can reach the test site easily.

Special forums for DU4 beta users

BUG REPORTS

If you are using the DU4 beta and you want to report a bug, please use the DU4 Bug Reports forum (you can find this via Navigate > Help & Search).

GENERAL QUESTIONS ABOUT DU4

Meanwhile, if you have other questions about DU4, we have set up a DU4 Q&A forum (again, you can find this via Navigate > Help & Search)

What you should know

First, and most importantly, there are no new rule changes, and the vast majority of the features and functions of DU3 -- such as posting, reccing, the Jury System, etc. -- have not changed at all on DU4. Everything you have on DU3 -- such as your Journal, your Bookmarks, etc. -- you will still have, and while things are going to look a little different, everything should work as you expect it to.

DU4 was primarily intended as a cosmetic refresh, to bring the look of the site up to date. Wherever possible, I've tried to keep things where you're used to finding them on DU. However, some things have moved around, with the most noticeable likely being the navigation system.

From the "NAVIGATE" button at the top left, you will find links to the Latest page, the Greatest page, and the new Latest Videos page. There are also links to the "big three" forums -- Latest Breaking News, General Discussion, and the Lounge. Finally, there are six new forum categories which contain all the Topic Forums ("Topic Forums" also includes DU3 Groups). Feel free to explore.

Meanwhile, from the "MY STUFF" button at the top right, you will find... your stuff. Again, feel free to explore.


New features

While DU4 was primarily intended as a cosmetic update, of course we couldn't resist sneaking in some new features. So in your My Stuff menu you'll also find a new page called "Feed" (this is for Star Members only), and we now have a standalone "Member Lookup" page (for all registered members).

You'll also find new options in Account Settings (some for Star Members only) -- including an easier way to update your email address and password, and options to change the visual appearance of the site. If you decide you prefer DU the way it was before, you can select "Skinner Mode" for a retro DU3 look.

You can find a comprehensive list of DU4 features here.


Bugs and other issues

There will be quirks! This is an ongoing beta test which will be running in front of its widest audience yet, so we expect bugs and issues to crop up. The purpose of this test is for us to find and squash as many bugs as possible so that we can eventually switch the entire site over to DU4.

From time to time, depending on what you're doing on DU4, you may find yourself sent back to a DU3 page. This is to be expected for now -- if it happens to you, simply replace "www" with "du4" in your address bar and you'll be back on track.

As mentioned above, we have a dedicated forum on DU4 for reporting bugs and issues, which we encourage you to use should you find any problems. We also have a dedicated forum for questions and answers.


The test will be interrupted periodically

We expect the beta test to run semi-permanently in parallel with DU3 until we're ready to switch the entire site over to DU4. There will be brief shutdowns from time to time to implement bug fixes, and we'll notify you of these before they happen.

Both versions of the site are running off the same database, so anything you do on DU4 will be reflected on DU3, and vice versa. For example, if you start a new discussion in the Lounge on DU3, that discussion will appear in the Lounge on DU4. Or if you self-delete a post on DU4, it will disappear on DU3. No matter which version of the site you use, you will not lose any posts, bookmarks, etc. when we make the final switchover.


Final thoughts

It's been a very long road to DU4. The project began more than three years ago with a blank text document, and tens of thousands of hand-written lines of code later, we're almost at the finish line. We do not yet have a date set for the full release of DU4 -- that will depend on how the beta test goes -- but we will of course let you know well in advance before it happens.

We hope you enjoy it!

EarlG and Elad -- the Administrators

[cilla4progress]

1. Wow - on 1st look

stunningly eye-appealing!

[William769]

2. I'm in!

Thank you two for all the hard work that you put into DU to give us a great discussion board.

Three cheers!

[CousinIT]

3. WoW! DU4 is awesome-looking at first glance.

Thank you so much for all your DECADES of hard work on DU. I don't know what the hell I'd have done without it all these years. LOVE & RESPECT to you and all others who run and maintain DU.

[highplainsdem]

4. Thanks, EarlG!

Curious to check this out.

And My Stuff is already blinking at me. Guess I'd better start there...

EDITING to add that I checked My Stuff, didn't see any reason why it had been blinking, but the blinking stopped when I looked at it.

[EarlG]

11. My Stuff will blink for three reasons

1) You get a new DU mail message
2) Someone replies to one of your posts
3) Someone starts a new thread in a forum you're subscribed to, or someone you're subscribed to starts a new thread

In the first instance, the Inbox button will light up. In the second instance, the Posts button will light up, and in the third instance, the Subscriptions button will light up.

[highplainsdem]

19. Thanks! I did see the Posts button lit up when I checked My Stuff just

now, after you replied. But when I checked the first time, I hadn't seen any buttons lit up.

I did just make the very happy discovery that Advanced Search is now working properly for me again when I'm using my tablet, for the first time since late May:

https://du4.democraticunderground.com/125621857

I hadn't been able to make any changes to the tablet that fixed it, but DU4 fixed whatever interaction with the tablet had caused that problem (search had still worked fine with my laptops).

[intheflow]

35. Well, that'll incentivize me to cancel all my subscriptions.

That blinking drives me nuts, and if I want to know what’s happening in a forum, I’ll visit it. 🫤 In reality, it won’t change my site usage if I unsubscribe, just thought you should know how it affects me.

[Pluvious]

45. They mention...

You can bypass the new version:

“… If you decide you prefer DU the way it was before, you can select "Skinner Mode" for a retro DU3 look…”

[consider_this]

57. looks like you can customize

and keep the subscriptions off the blinker notification if you like. I also see you can just pick a little text note or solid color change instead of the blink - check it out in your account settings.

[intheflow]

69. That sounds so much better!

I’ll be sure to look for that. Thanks!

[EarlG]

84. consider_this is correct

Try My Stuff > Account Settings and scroll down to the "My Stuff' notifications section.

There's a dropdown there which allows you to change the style of the My Stuff notification. There are six for now but I imagine we'll have more in future.

Also, there are options beneath that so that you can decide what you want the My Stuff button to light up for. If you don't want it to light up for Subscriptions, you can do that. (Although with the caveat that this functionality is a little buggy at the moment, but we're working on it.)

[highplainsdem]

92. Thanks! Hadn't noticed that earlier. I switched the notification to a solid color.

[highplainsdem]

79. You can go to Account Settings and shut off notifications for Subscriptions. But

that might also shut off the non-blinking notification on DU3. Not sure...

[EarlG]

85. Changing *new* settings in DU4 Account Settings won't affect DU3

For example, the My Stuff notifications or the different modes like Night Mode and Skinner Mode. You're free to experiment with those without affecting anything on DU3.

But settings which *already exist* on DU3 will transfer over. For example, if you're on DU4 and you change your willingness to serve on a Jury, the setting will also change on DU3.

[MontanaMama]

71. Wow!

My Stuff is fancy now.

I like how all the smiley options show up at once. Thank you!

[Blues Heron]

5. Wouldnt load at all on a mac os 10.6.8

DU as of now works fine on a 10.6.8 mac os running firefox 48.0.2 over DSL

this new version 4 - nothing, just a blank screen.

[EarlG]

7. It's explained in the second paragraph of the announcement

As promised last week, anyone who purchased or renewed their Star Membership during the Summer Fund Drive can access the beta right now. Access to all site visitors will be opened up two weeks from tomorrow, on September 5 (the day after Labor Day).

[Blues Heron]

9. Thanks

Thats a relief!

[Chainfire]

8. Great look and feel!

This is going to be an outstanding upgrade!

[unc70]

10. Blank screen on iPhone iOS 16.6 Safari browser

[EarlG]

12. Please see the second paragraph of the announcement

As promised last week, anyone who purchased or renewed their Star Membership during the Summer Fund Drive can access the beta right now. Access to all site visitors will be opened up two weeks from tomorrow, on September 5 (the day after Labor Day).

[wendyb-NC]

13. It looks great

Thank you, to you and Elad, for all the hard work.

[sanatanadharma]

14. It is not for me to stand in the way of progress

This is a good time to thank the unknown DU-er who gifted to me the opportunity this new site to see.

Thank you, one and two and all

[CrispyQ]

15. Love the fresh clean look!

[Trueblue1968]

16. sorry ... i just don't like change. i have a problem with it & always have

i am bad person

[Marthe48]

25. I feel the same

I've looked at the same DU pages for years. It is going to be hard to adjust to any changes. The new page is like a whole new site. I've got a vision disability and it'll take me a lot of time to see where everything is. I don't feel like a bad person, just a crabby one :/

On the upside, I guess we are entering a new chapter of politics, where we might see traitors get punished, fined and jailed. Maybe changing DU is like leaving the traitor years behind.

Thanks for making the DU page and keeping it up-to-date.

[c-rational]

66. I appreciate how you feel. On the upside, our brains get something new to puzzle, and get used to.

[sheshe2]

102. I don't know what your vision disability is...

However have you tried to change to dark mode/night mode? Black background with white lettering. Go to My Stuff then click on Account Settings.

It is easy on the eyes.

[Marthe48]

103. I've got the brightness turned way down

Which cuts down on migraines. I lost central vision in one eye after cataract surgery, and I won't willingly have the other eye done. So I can see, but it can be confusing and take me time to see what I'm looking at :/ I spent time on DU4 yesterday, and as I use it more, I'll get used to it.

When I was young, everything lasted forever. Now, things can change in the blink of an eye, so to speak.

TY for the suggestion

[sheshe2]

105. I used to turn the brightness down, it just made the words dim and fuzzy.

Trust me, try the dark mode. I have been using it on other sites, it really is an eye saver.

[Marthe48]

106. I will bookmark this thread to refer to

Won't tonight, but I'll try it soon thanks!

[EarlG]

86. It's not easy to change something you're used to

I suspected some people would prefer the old site. If it helps, I created an entirely separate "skin" for DU4 that makes it look as close to the old site as possible. You can get to it like this:

1) Click the My Stuff button in the top right corner, then click Account Settings.
2) Scroll down to the Visual appearance section.
3) Select Skinner Mode and then click one of the Save all settings buttons.

You'll get DU4 but hopefully with a more comfortable appearance.

[Scottie Mom]

17. I never like change. But that is just me as an old person...sigh...

It looked OK until I went to reply to this thread...and I got a garbage page of the names of possible clickable links...not this reply box. When I refreshed that page, I did get to the reply box. I hope this does not continue once there is a complete change over.

I do like that audio threads can be found in one place. I usually do not like them because I am hearing impaired and even with CC, audio links are a PITA. So, for me, this is much appreciated.

I like the navigation box because everything was in one place.

Thank you for all the hard work.

[Trueblue1968]

18. i don't like change either. i don't want DU to look different. TOO MUCH WHITE.

[Scottie Mom]

20. Agree.

Also, my avatar does not show and when I sent to post above your post, I got another garbage page. My photos on the signature line were full sized and so was my avatar. Again, I had to refresh to get back to anything that looked reasonable.

[EarlG]

22. This is the first day of the early access beta test so there are going to be issues

The "garbage page" you're describing sounds like the stylesheet (which controls the page layout) is failing to load when the main page loads, although the fact that a refresh fixes it means that the problem is hopefully temporary. I'm not experiencing it myself but will keep an eye out for it.

Meanwhile, if you prefer the original look of DU, try this:

1) Go to My Stuff > Account Settings
2) Scroll down to the "Visual appearance" section
3) Select "Skinner Mode" and hit the "Save all settings" button.

That will give you a version of DU4 that looks very similar to DU3

[Marthe48]

26. It'll be interesting to see how many stick with the Skinner Mode

and how many choose the new look.

Is the Skinner Mode and Earl G Mode going to be seamlessly compatible?

[EarlG]

36. Yes, they are compatible

What you're seeing is the exact same underlying code, but with a different "skin" on top. The site and all its functions are identical no matter which layout you choose, it's just the layout that looks different. You can switch between them at will.

This is something we could not have done with DU3 -- or at least it would have been extremely difficult -- because it used some very old fashioned methods to lay out its pages.

[Trueblue1968]

59. canwe stick with the original one... the one we use now ???

[EarlG]

23. If you prefer the old look

Try this:

1) Go to My Stuff > Account Settings
2) Scroll down to the "Visual appearance" section
3) Select "Skinner Mode" and hit the "Save all settings" button.

[Scottie Mom]

48. Thanks for the info.

If the pages in the new mode keep appearing in odd forms, I will use the "Skinner mode."

[Trueblue1968]

60. thank you. i just did that.

[highplainsdem]

24. DU4 has what is called Skinner Mode, which will give you something closer to the format you're used to. Go

to My Stuff>Account Settings>Visual Appearance to click that, then click the Save All Settings button below.

[gademocrat7]

21. Thank you, EarlG and Elad!

[highplainsdem]

27. Avatars show up with Default and Night Mode, but not Skinner Mode.

[EarlG]

37. Are you on a phone?

Having avatars show up on phones in Default and Night Mode is a new thing. Avatars don't show up on phones on DU3, so I designed DU4's Skinner Mode the same way to keep it as close as possible to the original.

If you're not on a phone though, that sounds like it might be a bug.

[highplainsdem]

39. Tablet. And as I mentioned in reply 19, DU4 has fixed the

problem with Advanced Search that I started having with this tablet in late May and could never fix with DU3.

[EarlG]

44. Okay I'll take another look at this

Avatars should show up on tablets using Skinner Mode. Is it all avatars or just some of them?

[highplainsdem]

47. All, judging by this thread.

[EarlG]

88. Ah, do you normally hold the tablet vertically?

Holding a tablet vertically gives you the mobile version of the site. (If I tried to fit the desktop version on a vertical tablet, I think the text would be uncomfortably small.)

On the mobile version of Skinner Mode, avatars are not included (as they are not included on DU3 mobile version). So that might be why you're not seeing them.

If you normally hold your tablet vertically, you can see what I mean by turning it horizontally -- do the avatars pop in?

[highplainsdem]

90. Holding it horizontally doesn't make them appear. I even changed the

mode and made sure I was holding the tablet horizontally when I clicked on Skinner Mode, in case that would make a difference, but it didn't.

Maybe you could post an OP asking others using tablets if they can see avatars when using Skinner Mode?

Or did you test it yourself with a tablet?

[EarlG]

94. Unfortunately I couldn't reproduce the issue

On my iPad the avatars are appearing correctly.

Can you tell me exactly what kind of tablet you're using?

[highplainsdem]

95. A Fire tablet. I tried clearing the cache, too, and that didn't make any difference. No problem with sig lines. Just

the avatars are missing using Skinner Mode.

[EarlG]

101. I've done some digging into this and unfortunately

I can't see any reason why the avatars aren't showing up. I do know that the Fire browser has some of its own particular quirks which can occasionally cause things to render differently than they do on other browsers, but I'm afraid I've not yet been able to track down what's going on here...

[highplainsdem]

104. It's okay - I don't need to see the avatars, and they show up anyway in

the other modes. It'd odd that the signatures show up, though, and the avatars don't when I use Skinner Mode.

[highplainsdem]

96. And by "No problem with sig lines" I mean those are visible when I hold the tablet horizontally, then

vanish after a split-second delay when it's vertical.

[Think. Again.]

28. This is exciting!...

It might take me a bit to get used to it, but it feels reaaaallllly good so far!!!

[highplainsdem]

29. I LOVE the "Friendly forums for passionate Dems" subtitle under Democratic Underground.

Hadn't noticed that in the screenshots you posted earlier.

EDITING to add that I just checked and found out that disappears with Skinner Mode.

[Pepsidog]

30. If the new AI coding capabilities existed three years ago would it have made creating the new DU

easier? If so, how much faster would it have taken? Asking because I know nothing about coding so trying to judge the impact of AI for coders.

[highplainsdem]

34. Generative AI, the type that writes code, makes lots of mistakes that have to be

caught and corrected.

[EarlG]

38. I've never used AI coding assistance...

DU4's front end code is very personal -- I don't use any pre-written frameworks, I just write the code directly into a blank text document. So, I kinda know where everything is and how it all works, and what to adjust to get certain results. AI wouldn't really have helped with that.

I could see how it could maybe save some time if I was working on Javascript, which I'm not as familiar with -- but when I did create some Javascript for DU I actually rather enjoyed the challenge of trying to figure it out for myself. On the other hand, since I run the site I don't have a boss breathing down my neck telling me to hurry up...

AI assistance could speed things along I suppose. On the other hand, it might produce results that I didn't want, and then I'd have to spend time troubleshooting it. I guess I don't know, is the answer

[Pepsidog]

46. Thanks for the response and all you guys do to keep this site running. Hard to imagine the work and

dedication to create and administer a site like this.

[Prairie_Seagull]

31. Just opened, love the new look.

Looking forward to playing with it.
Thanks EarlG and Elad.

[democrank]

32. I'm old and not very computer savvy.....

I clicked on that link and nothing happened. Yes, I did participate in the Summer Fund Drive.

[EarlG]

41. Did you contribute by mail?

I haven't checked the P.O. Box yet but I'm on my way to do so shortly. I'll get back to you.

[intheflow]

33. The most cursory of results on my iPhone are mostly positive.

It’s certainly easier to read than the current version which I always have to enlarge. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 on readability!

Love the My Notes addition, that’s much more helpful to me than bookmarking. 🙌🏼

Also love I can sort political and nonpolitical posts on the GP, along with other sorting options! Sometimes I’m only in the mood for animal videos, other times they annoy me among the political news I’m primarily here for. So again, 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼!

What absolutely doesn’t work for me is having to go to a separate navigation page each time I just want to go back to the prior page, mostly the GP which is page I consult the most. Even if I’ve just rec’d the OP, I get a pop up that asks me if I want to resubmit; if I hit cancel it brought me back to the homepage, so I had to go to the Nav button and retrace my steps. Instead of a navigation buttons, could you do drop-down menus? That way I can get where I’m going faster. (Not that I need to tell you two, but it’s well-established that excess navigation can drive users away.)

[EarlG]

42. If you're getting the resubmit notice when you hit back

it's because you just submitted some form data to the database on the previous page.

So for example, if you changed the sort options on the Greatest page, then clicked through to a thread, then tried to back up, you'll get the resubmit notice. But it should not do that under normal circumstances -- if you go directly to the Greatest page via the Navigate link, then click a thread, then back up, you should not get the resubmit notice.

It's possible that it's happening to you a lot at the moment because you're experimenting with the sort options. Under normal circumstances, you should find that you don't run into the resubmit notice very often.

[Kablooie]

40. Hmm. I'm just getting a blank page.

I supposed the server is overloaded with people trying it out.

[EarlG]

43. Please see the second paragraph of the OP

As promised last week, anyone who purchased or renewed their Star Membership during the Summer Fund Drive can access the beta right now. Access to all site visitors will be opened up two weeks from tomorrow, on September 5 (the day after Labor Day).

[NewHendoLib]

49. thanks! I look forward to playing around with this. First thoughts - looks great!

[FakeNoose]

50. So awesome - DU4 is really happening!

I got a little sample of this last year when I was on the MIRT team. We only got to use it for a week but I really liked it.
It's even better now!

Thanks so much EarlG and Elad. You guys are the BEST!

[relayerbob]

51. Looks OK, but ... (pretty long review)

Not a fan of change for change sake, will take some getting used to, but it appears to have everything there. The layout seems to provide a somewhat better ability to find stuff, maybe.

The large "recs" number wastes space, I don't think I've ever cared about that number, nor ever will, if you want to show it to stroke authors' egos or to be transparent about why something is there, then make it small and immediately after the authors name. It's not really important enough to consume that much prime real estate. Also, too much space between articles in the "Trending" and "Greatest" threads, I'd prefer more than 5 articles and less empty space. My biggest personal complaint about DU is how rapidly things disappear on the "Trending" and "Greatest" threads, especially "trending", which just seems like a device for modern short attention spans, haha (I tend to ignore "trending" stuff on all social media for that reason, just because a lot of people are looking at something *right now* doesn't make it important or useful ... it might be ... but usually not so much). Anyway, I'd make both of those 8-10 items long, and somehow try to make those a little less dynamic, especially the "greatest" thread. Maybe hold the greatest for 12-24 hours or something. I've been called away from the site, only to lose something I was interested in, many times. Also, making a column for stuff of personal interest, such as the excellent rescued cats threads, rather than intermixing them in the "Trending" with things like coups and hurricanes, would be nice. Get rid of the recs number and use that space to add in something like that, and I'd be a happier camper.

I can definitely understand the complaints about white space, in the Light Mode it's just way too much. I like the option for Dark Mode and have turned it on. I would frankly have preferred dark mode as the default, not white, it's just too blinding, and bad for the eyes. But glad to have have that setting.

Also, the font selection, while more "modern", the lines on the letters themselves are narrower and the font size overall quite a bit smaller, so it's harder to read, especially in light mode. Doesn't really scale well when I adjust the scale on my keyboard, it feels like it readjusts the font sizes within the articles to fit a certain size, rather than allow them to size up, so the headlines grow and the pictures grow, but still keeps the fonts too small for my eyes, and the change from four columns to three when scaling up is both jarring and hard to follow, without the benefit of being able to read the articles better. And the amount of white space as one scales gets really bad.

My guess is, young readers will like it more, because their eyes can tolerate it. Older readers (which are probably most of us) are going to have a harder time with it. Again, I'd default to dark mode, and let those who like their pupils shrunken to a pinprick make the change, lol.

The Feed page is interesting, not sure how much I would personally use it, but only time will tell on that.

Left Column and Latest Breaking News are not vertically aligned, and that disturbs my COPD, haha. The Forums section in the middle needs an equivalent header name, like "Left Column" and "Latest Breaking News", to state what the column is being used for.

So, in summary, overall, layout changes are pretty good, but not really necessary. The "Trending now" and "Greatest Threads" are visually, steps in the wrong direction, even if the location is better. The visuals are definitely not an improvement in light mode. The font and font size selection allows more stuff on the screen, but the narrowness of the fonts, coupled with all the whitespace, makes reading the page quite a bit harder. Dark mode helps a lot, but fonts are still too small and way too much dead space in the top half of the screen.

Thanks for woking on it and for giving a wide audience the opportunity to chime in. I know this is difficult work, and impossible to make everyone happy. I do have to say, I don't get why people feel such a need to change things that basically work quite well already.

[highplainsdem]

52. THREE clicks instead of just one to get to the Announcements forum from

any other page. Navigate. Help & Search. Announcements.

That old sidebar menu was really convenient for navigating DU, and even Skinner Mode in DU4 doesn't have it.

[EarlG]

73. Any forum you subscribe to will show up in the left column

Try subscribing to Announcements and you’ll see it there.

[highplainsdem]

74. I understand. But I don't want notifications of new threads for every forum I would

like to be able to reach with just one click.

Especially a blinking notification. Can the blinking be changed to just having the My Stuff button change color?

Actually, a different color for different types of notifications - Inbox, Posts, Subscriptions - would be nice. I've liked the separate notifications for those visible on every page of DU3. The cross-page banner for email is impossible to miss.

[highplainsdem]

75. Just switched from DU3 to DU4, saw the My Stuff button blinking, and again there

was no reason for it. Didn't see any buttons there lit up when I clicked. Just as when I first checked DU4 hours ago.

[highplainsdem]

76. Just discovered I can shut off subscription notifications, and did

[AllaN01Bear]

53. im glad the developers kept the legacy nav system and i also like the new nav system

[Think. Again.]

54. Loving it!...

...the enhanced reply KEYBOARD is frikkin awesome!

[moonscape]

55. The font is too small for me to easily

see. Is there a setting for this? The font is now much smaller for GD topics for example. I have older eyes

[pnwmom]

116. I agree that the font size is much smaller now, and I prefer the original. nt

[sagetea]

56. Yes!

It's lovely! Thank you so much!


sage

[Pluvious]

58. Thank you SO MUCH for the Dark Mode Option !!

I’m one of the early whiners for this, as it’s helpful for evening viewing before bed 😌

[Dave in VA]

61. .

[Phentex]

62. Looks great!

Thank you EarlG and Elad!

[AwakeAtLast]

63. This is great!

Thanks for including Star members in the sneak peek!

[sdfernando]

64. It is an amazingly clean look....

if fact, its so clean that I have a completely white screen...like a blank whiteboard.

This is using Chrome, Firefox, Edge (I shutter!), and Opera....All have that amazingly clean look.

Sorry to tease, I know its beta and there are issues always with beta releases....but I was expecting just a little bit more.

[sheshe2]

65. I was here for the test site.

The new finished product is fantastic.
If I remember correctly when I asked about dark mode, you said it wasn't going to happen. YOU and ELAD DID IT! Thank you so much for this new feature! I love it and so do my eyes!

[Phentex]

67. I love it too!

I feel fancy!

[CousinIT]

68. Great on iPad! N/t

[canetoad]

70. Looks great

Love the new features and the typography......

[Layzeebeaver]

72. WOW!

I think this looks pretty damn good.

well done!!!!!

IMPLEMENT NOW!!!

That said....

Thi interface is rather good. I like the contextual interface components. well designed,, keep up the great work!!!

[ornotna]

77. Looks good guys

I've checked it out with my Iphone and Windows laptop, both look very nice at first glance.

Thanks for the great work you guys do.

[LostOne4Ever]

78. Thank all of you you for all the hard work

Looks very streamlined and professional!!!

[highplainsdem]

80. Had to switch from Default to Dark Mode. Default is so bright, so much

uninterrupted white space, that using it for a while, testing earlier today, caused eyestrain and the beginning of a headache.

I almost never use Dark Mode online, had never needed it with DU3.

[LostOne4Ever]

81. Are Signatures going away?

I can’t find anything about them under profile?

[EarlG]

89. Signatures aren't going away

This was a design decision...

Signature lines are not displayed on the mobile version of the site (they would take up too much space) -- it's always been this way on DU3 and will continue on DU4. When I was working on the Profile page I realized that if you can't see any sig lines while you're on your phone, there's not really any need to let you set or change a sig line when you're on your phone either.

You can still change your sig line on a tablet or desktop device, and sig lines show up on those devices.

[PatrickforB]

82. You know what I like, right off the bat? I can recommend someone's post on a thread! That

is great. Plus I'm looking at these new symbols. I'm thinking about this little m. What, I wonder, does it do?

Let's try it...

And here's one of my old-time favorites, the excerpt.

Easier to use.

How 'bout B and I and U? OK, this is a really good feature..

I like the changes, Earl!

[3catwoman3]

83. Is there something comparable to the DU 3 Homepage...

…that shows 5 each of the Latest and Greatest?

Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere already.

[EarlG]

87. The DU home page can be found by

just clicking the site logo at the top of the page. It's a little different than the DU3 home page but it has the Trending and Greatest sections you're looking for.

[3catwoman3]

93. Thnx.

[consider_this]

91. pros and cons

I like and appreciate many of the new features that have been added - e.g. subscribe to user, rec replies, customize alert.

Sadly, I must say I am finding the reading experience on my laptop to be cumbersome in that there is so much extra vertical space consumed by the following, that I am scrolling like crazy to read as rapidly/efficiently as I am accustomed to, since very little info is viewable on a page at once. these items are:

• super large post title and username fonts when you open an OP,


• excessive vertical line and paragraph spacing in OP text


• Site header and breadcrumb trail font quite (unnecessarily, IMO) large and does not scroll away (understandable)


• much larger vertical space being taken by each post reply's header (nearly double DU3 size) , footer (more than double DU3 size), and excessive spacing between text lines of the replies and posts.

These points are adding up to making it more difficult, for me at least, to engage with the content.
For example, where in DU3 I can see 12 OPs on a screen without scrolling, I can only see 8 in DU4. In DU3 I can usually see all of an OP and a few replies on one screen, now I seem to have to scroll to read most OPs. I also have a rather large screen, 2880 × 1800, so imagine it would be even more challenging on smaller screen. Maybe there is some setting that can be done on my end? if so, all ears!
Maybe I will get accustomed to this, but I wanted to leave this feedback here if it may be helpful.
That said, still, many thanks to EarlG and Elad for all you do to run and enhance this site!

[consider_this]

98. Skinner Skin...

seems to be my preference at this time. Seems like I still get all the great new functionality features, and retain the similar DU3 reading experience that takes a lot less scrolling.
I will say, that I do miss the page number navigation that DU3 has at both top and bottom of latest discussions, now it is only at the bottom.
I appreciate (in Skinner mode) the little blue arrows on left of certain posts - helps me realized those are ones floated up the list due to having milestone numbers of replies (not sure how that is indicated in default mode).

[pnwmom]

117. Good points. I had a similar reaction. nt

[Habitation]

97. NIGHT MODE!

Always on

[philly_bob]

99. Font too small for boomer eyes?

Have to keep ZOOM at 150%.

[EarlG]

100. This issue is a bit curious

What sort of device are you using? Are you on a tablet or laptop, or desktop with a larger monitor?

I've seen a few people mention that they think the font is too small. I just took a screenshot of your post on DU4 and then another of the same post on DU3 and put them next to each other. I use a standard 1920x1080 size desktop monitor. Here's what I'm seeing -- DU4 is on the left, DU3 is on the right:



As you can see, the DU4 font is actually a little larger than the old DU3 font...

If you're using a smaller device let me know and I'll do another comparison.

[philly_bob]

128. Curious indeed.

I'm viewing it on an ACER laptop at the recommended display resolution of 1920 x 1080.

Thanks for looking into this.

[philly_bob]

129. Curious indeed.

I'm viewing it on an ACER laptop at the recommended display resolution of 1920 x 1080.

Thanks for looking into this.

[pnwmom]

118. For anyone over 40. nt

[GP6971]

107. Looks really good. A question.

Does DU4 eliminate the current Home Page that shows the daily number of members?

If so, what happens to the current Left Column?

Thanks
GP

[EarlG]

108. The home page can be reached simply by clicking the site logo at the top of the page

The new home page has pretty much all the same stuff on it that the old one did, although some of it has been moved around a little.

I decided the total registration count wasn't so important these days... I dunno, back in the old, old pre-blog, pre-social media days, when the Internet was a much smaller place, we thought that showing off that count was pretty cool. But while DU certainly isn't a small site by any means, these days the really big sites have hundreds of millions of members, so it doesn't feel like much of a brag. What's important is that DU is a great community full of great people who enjoy hanging out together. Quality over quantity, right

I still think 89 million posts (and counting) is pretty cool though

[GP6971]

109. Thanks!!

Found the Home Page...thanks!

I'll personally miss the daily registration count...just something I've gotten used to over the years.

Thanks Again!!

GP

[Rocknation]

110. I'm standing pat with the Skinner-style layout

Last edited Sat Aug 26, 2023, 08:29 AM - Edit history (1)

DU4 is literally too all over the screen for me. Thanks for not automatically kicking it the curb simply because you could.


Rocknation

[Kali]

111. deleting multiple emails!

yes!

[highplainsdem]

113. Yes, that is a plus!

Thanks, admins!

[Upthevibe]

112. EarlG ............

Awesome............I love the look and feel!

Your hard and amazing work is very much appreciated

[AKwannabe]

114. Thanks EarlG and Elad

Good work!

EarlG, you have been a saint in this thread with your replies. Gold ⭐️

Two mentions so far for me.

Missing the options at bottom of page to go
Home
Greatest
Latest
Forums
Subscriptions
Posts

Was available on all pages and handy! Especially handy from a thread. Maybe not so much on front page because I usually didn’t scroll to the bottom there.

Also. Regarding rec’s
We’re able to poke the little window above # of recs and see some stats. Am I missing that somehow?

Thanks again
🥂

[AKwannabe]

115. Additionally just found this

Don’t think it’s a bug so didn’t report there

Old mode clipped links automatically I think
Just saw a link I posted earlier show like this on du4

9. NPR reported 1000 as of March this yr
12:39 PM
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/25/1165022885/1000-defendants-january-6-capitol-riot#:~:text=Nick%20McMillan-,1%2C000%20people%20have%20been%20charged%20for%20the%20Capitol,Here's%20where%20their%20cases%20stand&text=Department%20of%20Justice-,A%20selection%20of%20the%201000%20people%20who%20have%20been%20charged,the%20U.S.%20Capitol%20in%202021.



Looks like this in du3

9. NPR reported 1000 as of March this yr
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/…


Much cleaner and takes less space in the text box…

[EarlG]

120. Hey, to respond to both posts

I figured the nav links at the bottom of the page were no longer necessary on DU4 because the new page header, which includes the navigation menus, is pinned to the top of the page at all times, so you can simply click that and get to where you want to go.

HOWEVER... I think there's an oversight on my part here, because if you're using Skinner Mode the nav bar *isn't* pinned to the top of the page. I'll have a think about this and see what I can do.

As for the long links, this was a deliberate choice. On the mobile version of DU3 links are shortened, which works well when someone just posts a link as you did above. The reason we did this is because back when DU3 was created 12 or so years ago, I don't think there was an easy way to break a long link across multiple lines. This resulted in a situation where very long links would force themselves out of the right side of the page. This was obviously a particular problem on mobile. So we used a trick to shorten the links instead.

However, if someone makes a bunch of text in the middle of their post into a hyperlink, the shortener would still kick in. So on DU3 mobile, you'd get this:

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis ... No candidate came into the debate facing more pressure than DeSantis. For weeks, his poll numbers have been sliding and the gap with Trump widening, jeopardizing his argument that he is voters' preferred alternative to Trump.

It can often mess up the context of the post for people reading on mobile. But on DU4 mobile, without the shortener, you get this:

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis stood at center stage, but he wasn’t at the center of the evening. No candidate came into the debate facing more pressure than DeSantis. For weeks, his poll numbers have been sliding and the gap with Trump widening, jeopardizing his argument that he is voters' preferred alternative to Trump.

So now that we can break long links across lines, on DU4 I opted to remove the shortener. Yes, this sometimes means that very long links will be posted -- but they don't break the page layout any more, and I think the fact that text in posts is no longer shortened makes up for it.

[highplainsdem]

119. Just discovered Email has a Preview button in DU4! Thank you!!!

[keithbvadu2]

121. The new format seems very workable. I have two requests/suggestions...

The new format seems very workable. I have two requests/suggestions...
1. Place a click box at the top of the page that sends you to the bottom of the page...
..... (I see the one at the bottom to go to the top.)
2. Some Images from other sites come up to be huge on the display. Could there be an option to selectively resize the image to 400, 500, 600, 800 pixels wide? (or no resizing)

[flamingdem]

122. Excess space between paragraphs and posts

Pretty but it requires too much scrolling to get through due to excess space.

Loss of energy by text being too small and spaced too much.

I wouldn't do this layout because it's too much like other sites and lacks the energy of old DU.

I think between this and the old style layout would be preferable. Especially the text.

You don't want to make it look so cleaned up. It's less fun that way!

[Warpy]

123. I have a suggestion

and that is that group videos not be lumped in with "latest videos."

Political and news videos are getting very lost among other videos, especially those for "music appreciation," a forum I love to visit and have occasionally posted in but which does cause the political stuff to disappear as things are now.

Thanks.

[Yonnie3]

124. There is a filter at the top of the list of videos

The filter can be set to show:
Category - Main Forums and/or
Relevance - Political

Be sure to hit GO.

[Firestorm49]

125. Aces

[RainCaster]

126. Rather nice! Only a few minor issues...

First, on my phone the "DU" is not centered, but starts at the screen center.
Next, quite often, the style sheet doesn't arrive, and the unadorned html is ugly. A refresh fixes it.
Overall, this looks clean. I'm liking it.