Amid growing vaccination debate, measles continues to spread and is now in New York state

[Omaha Steve]

Source: W Post

By Peter Holley

Health officials announced that a college student diagnosed with measles recently traveled across New York on a train, potentially exposing untold numbers of travelers to the virus, according to news reports.

The infected individual, a student Bard College, boarded a a 1:20 p.m. Sunday Amtrak train from New York City’s Penn Station to Rhinecliff, N.Y., according to ABC News. The train stopped in Albany before traveling on to Niagara Falls, ABC reported.

“Anyone traveling on Amtrak train #283 from Penn Station in NYC to Albany on January 25, 2015, and who is not immune to measles or not sure of their measles immunity, should contact their primary care physician if they become ill with fever,” the New York State Department of Health said in a statement, according to the Associated Press.

Three New York state residents — one in Dutchess County and two in New York City — have been diagnosed with measles so far this year, ABC reported.

FULL story at link.



Vials of measles, mumps and rubella vaccine are displayed on a counter at a Walgreens pharmacy in Mill Valley, Calif. ( Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)


Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/01/31/amid-growing-vaccination-debate-measles-continues-to-spread-and-is-now-in-new-york-state/

[PSPS]

1. "Debate?" Is that like the "debate" about the earth being flat?

[NuclearDem]

3. Or AGW and evolution.

Two sides to everything!

[malthaussen]

11. Beat me to it.

Man, I wonder how I can dignify my own asshole idiocies to the status of a "debate."

-- Mal

[paleotn]

15. Geocentrism...

....but, but... I can see the sun and stars moving in the sky!

Anti-vaccination is an incredibly idiotic idea and needs to be labeled as such. No false equivalence bullshit! Call it what it is....utter and complete stupidity.

[bluestateguy]

21. OR the holocaust

nt

[workinclasszero]

59. You got it /eom

[We_Must_Organize]

2. Thanks for the post, but

we shouldn't call this a debate. There are people who choose to not believe in science and there are those of us that do. I work with highly intelligent people who think they've never had the flu because they've never had the flu shot!

"The outbreak has generated sometimes fierce criticism of people who, for personal reasons or because they mistrust the vaccine, choose not to have their children immunized..."

And rightly so. All Progressives need to educate people on this that are not aware of the scientific (see: only) truth. I read that there are Pediatricians that are refusing any new patients unless they parent has gotten their kids vaccinated.

[jwirr]

4. Are anti-vaxers against all types of vaccines? I had measles, german measles, mumps, chicken pox,

whooping cough and had a next door neighbor my age die of polio. Anyone who wants to go through that again is crazy.

[Moostache]

5. The fact that the Vaxxers are crazy is not in dispute...

Their motivations and urge to endanger others baffles the rational mind.

I find it as difficult to talk to them about the truth as I would a 9-11 truther, a young-Earth creationist, a geo-centrist or just about any Republican I come across...

[iandhr]

27. Look at post 20 below

These assholes aren't just Republicans.

[SoapBox]

10. Yup...just wait until polio gets started.

This anti-vax crap could endanger a whole lot of people...

[Bluenorthwest]

13. Netherlands 92/93...Polio outbreak

"An outbreak of poliomyelitis occurred in the Netherlands between September, 1992, and February, 1993, after 14 years without endemic cases. The outbreak was due to poliovirus type 3 and involved 71 patients, of whom 2 died and 59 had paralysis. The patients were aged between 10 days and 61 years (median 18 years). None of the patients had been vaccinated, and all but 1 belonged to a socially and geographically clustered group of people who refuse vaccination for religious reasons."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7915354

[paleotn]

16. Damn scary, isn't it. (nt)

[HockeyMom]

30. Can you PROVE you had all those diseases?

Are you up to date on those boosters? No? Then you too are walking around unvaccinated.

[jwirr]

33. At one time I could. Back then your doctor gave you a small journal which he wrote in whenever

you got one of the diseases. I am now 73 years old and have no idea where that little book went to. As for the boosters I have diabetes so my doctor is strong on boosters and other shots that are new. Once the vaccines were available they also went into that little journal. It also had a timeline for all the shots needed so that you would know when you needed to get them.

By the way it was not uncommon back then to have all of the diseases before you went to school or shortly thereafter. Keep in mind that no one was vaccinated. And it was assumed that the people who were in their teens or older would have them harder and there would be more damage.

Why are you asking this?

[Retrograde]

44. No one was vaccinated because no vaccines existed yet

At least for those diseases in the early 1950s when I was a kid - or they were just percolating down into the hinterlands. However, we regularly got smallpox and polio vaccines in grammar school.

My mother tells me I had rubella; I remember having measles and chicken pox at 5 and 6. One of my sisters had mumps, but although her twin and I were exposed we never showed any symptoms.

One of the nice things about the Kaiser HMO system is that they keep records on-line so they can tell which flu shots I've had when, whether my tetanus shots are up to date, and that I've had the shingles vax.

[jwirr]

47. Yes, I also like the computerized and on-line medical records for that reason and many others. I was

born in 1941 and back then there was nothing to protect anyone from these diseases.

I honestly do not know what we can do to get these anti-vaxers to realize what they are doing to others. I think it is because they think they are protecting us from what ever they fear.

[HockeyMom]

51. Post about legislating madnatory vaccinations

We Seniors certainly cannot prove we had these diseases, let alone the vaccinations that we did have 50+ years ago. Call up your doctor to get your records? What is the area code to Heaven?

[uppityperson]

53. There is a simple blood test for antibodies.

http://www.healthline.com/health/antibody-titer#Definition1

[NickB79]

67. HockeyMom is asking because she's our resident anti-vaxxer.

[jwirr]

68. Okay. Too young to remember when almost every child had these diseases and that the results

were not so good.

[Omaha Steve]

34. There is a simple blood test for antibodies

It let's you know if you have immunity or not.

[Frances]

36. Tell me more about the blood test for antibodies

[jeff47]

42. It's called an antibody titer

http://www.healthline.com/health/antibody-titer#Definition1

Long story short, it measures your immunity to a particular disease. If the value isn't high enough, you are not immune.

[Omaha Steve]

48. The Test

http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/measles/tab/test/

When is it ordered?

Measles or mumps IgM and IgG antibody tests and/or acute and convalescent IgG antibody testing may be ordered when a person has characteristic signs and symptoms or when a doctor suspects that a person has a current or recent measles or mumps infection. An IgG antibody test for measles or mumps may be ordered whenever a doctor wants to determine whether a person is immune to one or both of the viruses, either because of a previous infection or due to vaccination.

Much more at link.

[jwirr]

41. Thanks I will talk to my doctor about it.

[uppityperson]

39. Yes, they don't want to overwhelm immune systems, let immune systems work like they should, & we all

survived those diseases so hey! Even though they "know" there is more risk to their children from the disease than the vaccine, and even though they "know" there is not a risk from mercury, and even though they "know" there is minimal money made by manufacturers of vaccines and huge amounts from treating sick kids, still. They worry.

I am sorry for not using enough quote marks in my post title, so many words to enclose.

[sabbat hunter]

65. yes they are

I saw a story where one anti-vaxxer said her son got whooping cough and it was no worse than a bad cold..

[jwirr]

66. She was lucky. That wasn't true for everyone. I had it but Mom never told me how bad it was.

[iandhr]

6. Pass a law that makes parents of unvaccinated children civilly liable

If their kids gets someone sick.


One large fat lawsuit should do the trick. People talk about how strong their "beliefs" are. Through money into the picture the beliefs go away in a hurry.

[jwirr]

8. I wonder if there is any reason why that could not be done (the lawsuit) without a new law? If you

are sure who gave your child measles or any of the other diseases covered by vaccines why couldn't you sue for the suffering etc that was caused.

If we have our children vaccinated who is it that is catching measles? Who does this effect?

[iandhr]

17. I guess the "belief exceptions" are one thing.

Maybe you need to make it clear that your beliefs don't give you cvil immunity. I am not a lawyer I don't know.

[AtheistCrusader]

19. Tough to prove.

But you could pass laws barring their kids from schools and other public spaces.

[iandhr]

24. Thats the problem

The problem also is these morons would not be deterred by that.

[DRoseDARs]

31. Not necessarily. The virus has to have a genetic signature that can be traced.

Doctors do it with HIV. Every year, we try to make flu vaccines based on best guesses of which genetic variant of the virus will crop up the following season. So maybe strains of measles can be traced as well.

[jeff47]

43. Your examples are of viruses that mutate very rapidly.

Measles doesn't do that.

Epidemiologists can determine who "patient zero" likely was, but I do not know if they can say that with enough certainty for a court of law.

[on point]

23. Just quarantine their children to their homes 7x24. No exceptions

No visitors, except vaccinated Drs. Make it mandatory with huge fines for violation. Plus I like civil liabilities proses. I think this combo should get their attention

[Omaha Steve]

35. What about kids that were vaccinated...

And still got it. It does happen.

So do we require the blood test to check for a sufficient # of antibodies in the system?

[3catwoman3]

37. Many colleges do...

...exactly that if there is not proof of immunization and a student declines the shots.

[SunSeeker]

7. What fucking "growing debate"?! There is only one correct side to this.

Just like there is only one correct side in the "debate" over man made climate change. There is well documented science on one "side" and arrogant reality deniers on the other.

The only reason parents should not vaccinate their kid is for medical reasons, i.e. their immune system is incapable of handling the vaccine, such as kids getting chemo.

[mwooldri]

9. Meanwhile in Paris....

The Institut Pasteur is developing an ebola vaccine that's based on the measles vaccine. I guess the present MMR vaccine we have routinely may end up being EMMR if this work ends up on being successful.

[stonecutter357]

12. Debate?

[GoneOffShore]

14. Yeah and the anti-vaxx loons will show up shortly.

"But, but, but......autism, mercury, Benghazi!!"

Here's one taken down by Orac:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/01/30/antivaccine-cardiologist-jack-wolfson-and-the-resurrection-of-false-balance-about-vaccines/

[ColesCountyDem]

18. There is no debate.

Is water wet? Is the sun's surface hot? Those two subjects are about as debatable as whether vaccines are both safe and effective.

[Shamash]

20. The politics of anti-vaxxers

Trust me, there are plenty of liberals who are completely out of touch with observable reality, and not just on this subject. It is definitely not just a "conservative" phenomenon. Various links:

Real Clear Science

Forward Progressives

Discover

Call out stupidity where you see it, not just among the political opposition. After all, if they do see sense, then all the idiots that remain are on our side.

[iandhr]

26. Ding ding ding

[Journeyman]

22. And well there should be a very long and loud debate . . .

over how we as a society are going to treat those who endanger us all by choosing to have themselves and their children remain unvaccinated.

I don't know the answer. And having read a wide range of thoughts on the idea this past week, I recognize it's a difficult issue, one fraught with many Constitutional challenges. But its definitely an issue we need to address in spirited debate so we can determine our direction as a society as soon as possible.

[iandhr]

25. Another problem

The freaks are often pretty affluent. They will always been able to find a quack physician that will endorse their beliefs. Any doctor who preaches anti-vax should have their license pulled.

[HockeyMom]

28. How old is this college student?

In all likelyhood he is probably 18+. That means he is an adult who could make his own medical decisions. including whether to vaccinate or not to vaccinate HIMSELF.

Take him away from his Mommy and Daddy? Sue his parents for not vaccinating him 18+ years ago? If he is that old, his parents cannot be Dr. Jenny advocates because she herself would have been a kid that many years ago.

As I have said over and over and over, how do you people propose to force vaccinations on ADULTS? How in the world would you even KNOW who is walking around you, sitting on the subway next to you, sitting in the cubicle next to your, and are not full vaccinated? Ever here of HIPPA?

Been get working on changing a LOT of current laws, and not just for parents of young children.

[uppityperson]

40. Were you vaccinated? If you have children, were they? I am curious, thanks. And she is NOT a dr.

McCarthy is not a doctor.

Wakefield published his fraudulent anti-vax crap in 1998, 17 years ago, so that college student's parents could well have been influenced by him.

[HockeyMom]

49. I am 66

I actually had those diseases as a child. Haven't any had vax since the early 1950s, including those CDC recommends for Seniors. My own children back in the 80s? Yes, they got them up until the 90s when they came out with the Hep vax. I said enough is enough. They were preteens by then. Have they gotten what the CDC recommends today? Well, my younger daughter was in the Military so I am sure she got vax you probably never even heard of. She got a medical discharge because she was so sick.

My older daughter born 1979? I serious doubt she has. Too busy with LIFE to even think about that. They are adults and can decide for themselves now, as Mom can decide for her Senior self.

[uppityperson]

52. Thank you for the answer. You have not had a tetanus vx since 1950's? Too busy with LIFE to protect

yourselves from tetanus? You didn't get the polio vaccine when we all lined up in gyms to get a sugar cube?

Wakefield published his fraudulent anti-vax crap in 1998, 17 years ago so this college student's parents could have been influenced by him. And there is no "Dr. Jenny" as she is not a doctor.

[HockeyMom]

54. No never had a tetanus

Yes, got that polio on sugar cube in school, but they passed us by for the measles vax in school if we had measles ourselves.

[uppityperson]

55. "While I had a DPT vax in late 40s and booster in early 50s"? The "T" is tetanus.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141002408#post50

Do you mean 1940's or in your 40's as it looks like 1947 was when it was licensed in the USA for pediatric use.
http://www.immunize.org/timeline/

I got to skip the school lines of vaccines as we got ours at the doctor who knew what we'd had. Measles, Rubella, Mumps twice for me.

[HockeyMom]

56. 1940s and 1950s

Ok, I had a smallpox vax in the 60s to go to Europe. The only times I have ever had a doctor was my pediatrician which ended in 1958 and in 1984 with my pregnancy. What doctor would tell me, or record it, if I was vaccinaed or not since then? I was not given any vaccinations with either of my pregnancies; only a blood test with my older daughter.

This is all getting OT and too much about just ME. However, the point I am making is that it goes WAY BEYOND little children, taking them away from their parents, and throwing them in jail.

[jeff47]

46. Depends on the disease.

Two doses of the MMR shot provides immunity from measles for 98% of people for their lifetime. (Some studies are looking at the need for a booster much later in life)

DTaP or TDaP shots need boosters every 5 or 10 years (science is still working on 5 versus 10).

Forcing every adult to be measles-immune is easy - force kids to get the two shots, as well as all immigrants.

Forcing every adult to be pertussis immune is harder. But could be done either via carrot or stick - give them a tax credit if they get the shot, or a tax hike if they didn't. Rate wouldn't hit 100%, but it would go up.

[HockeyMom]

50. While I had a DPT vax in late 40s and booster in early 50s

Never had another. Every 5 t0 10 years? Imagine how many as a Senior I have missed? Measles vax? Never had. I don't want a flu or shingles shot, let alone a pertussis booster.

Throw out all the carrots you want. Stick? HOW? Cut off my Medicare and Social Security unless I GO to a doctor to get them?

[jeff47]

57. I already gave you an example of a carrot and stick.

Apparently, the tax penalty from the ACA is horrific enough to make people go ballistic about it. And that just required having health insurance.

And no, you do not need to GO to a doctor to get them. Lots of other people can give vaccinations. And they're free.

Let's see....get free shot from my pharmacist and get $1k when I file my taxes every year, or not. Hmmmm....decisions decisions.

[HockeyMom]

62. None for me whatsoever

Been accosted by nurses in supermarkets for flu shots. No thank you. Husband's doctor telling me I need this and that vax. Nope. Not getting. End of story for me, but apparently not for other people, despite my age,

I am only talking about this because far too many people think that parents of young children are an easy scapegoat. I truly feel for them. I would be furious too if I myself had young childen who were being targeted. Senior me? Not much anyone can do about that. After all, they have been brainwashed to think they are protecting elderly me too. Personally, save it and don't do me any favors. Save it for other old people who feel the same way they do.

[pansypoo53219]

29. can ANYBODY say quarantine? this is MORE infectious than EBOLA.

[HockeyMom]

32. Since we are talking about NYC

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/measles-outbreak-hits-jewish-neighborhoods-brooklyn-article-1.1346446

I think you are going to have a MAJOR problem with this group, and their memories of the past in another country. Ever hear of the Nuremberg Codes?

[whistler162]

38. Oh brother, since when is Rhinecliff across NY state

An editor my kingdom for a editor.

Mumps is going around the schools in the area.

[Gormy Cuss]

60. Since someone who wrote it thinks anything beyond the five boroughs and LI is the country.

Dutchess county is practically in Canada, isn't it?

[HockeyMom]

63. Growing up in Manhttan

I thought Queens was the sticks. Outside of the boroughs? Might as well have been flat earth.

[candelista]

45. Slate: 'A Public Health Crisis at the Border'

Diseases that are endemic to other countries are not always the same ones that we face in the United States. This is a medical observation, not a political one, and it is the reason immigrants who enter this country legally face rigorous screenings in advance of entry for sexually transmitted diseases, active tuberculosis, new strains of influenza, leprosy, cholera, and plague.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention require that all legal immigrants receive a medical exam. Proof of vaccination is also mandatory for measles, mumps, rubella, polio, tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, haemophilus strains, hepatitis A and B, rotavirus, meningococcus, chicken pox, pneumonia, and seasonal flu.

None of these rigorous screenings can be done in advance of entry on people who enter this country illegally and undetected. And once people are detained, the screenings they receive are not nearly as rigorous or effective at controlling the spread of disease. This is the reason that we have a potential public health crisis along our southern border.

As many as 50,000 children, mostly from Central American countries, are now being housed in cramped makeshift detention centers by the U.S. government. Unfortunately, they are not being detained for the purpose of identifying illness, with Immigration and Customs Enforcement relying on self-report of symptoms, and many have already been sent to other states, where disease can spread.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/07/children_crossing_border_illegally_a_possible_public_health_crisis_from.html

[SwankyXomb]

58. There is nothing wrong with anti-vaxxers

that can't be fixed by drilling holes in their heads until all the stupid/crazy leaks out.

[Gormy Cuss]

61. NYS requires proof of immunization for college students.

http://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/handbook/section_1_requirements.htm

This section discusses requirements for attendance at a post-secondary institution regarding immunization for measles, mumps, rubella and meningococcal disease in accordance with PHL Section 2165 (measles, mumps and rubella), PHL Section 2167 (meningococcal disease), and Title 10 New York Codes, Rules and Regulations Subpart 66-2 (10 NYCRR Subpart 66-2). Also found in this section are definitions of the terms student, certificate of immunization, exclusion, audit, enforcement and medical and religious exemptions in accordance with PHL Section 2165 and NYCRR 66-2.
Requirements for Attendance
Measles

Students born on or after January 1, 1957 must submit proof of immunity to measles. Only one of the following is required:

The student must submit proof of two doses of live measles vaccine: the first dose given no more than 4 days prior to the student's first birthday and the second at least 28 days after the first dose; or
The student must submit serological proof of immunity to measles. This means the demonstration of measles antibodies through a blood test performed by an approved medical laboratory; or
The student must submit a statement from the diagnosing physician, physician assistant or nurse practitioner that the student has had measles disease; or
The student must submit proof of honorable discharge from the armed services within 10 years from the date of application to the institution. The proof of honorable discharge shall qualify as a certificate enabling a student to attend the institution pending actual receipt of immunization records from the armed services; or
If a student is unable to access his/her immunization record from a health care provider or previous school, documentation that proves the student attended primary or secondary school in the United States after 1980 will be sufficient proof that the student received one dose of live measles vaccine. If this option is used, the second dose of measles vaccine must have been administered within one year of attendance at a post-secondary institution.

There are medical and religious exemptions allowed.

[HockeyMom]

64. Went back to college (Suffolk CC/SUNY Stony Brook) in 90s

Born before 1957. They did not ask me. I believe Stony Brook required meningitis vax for dorm students, but not for living off campus.

[feelhearty]

69. There is a easy way blood test for antibodies.

http://feelhearty.com/mobile-health/

[uppityperson]

70. Welcome to DU, there is indeed an easy way. My spouse had it done last month as was in

the age group for whom the vaccine was often ineffective. Insurance paid for it and the doctor ordered it very willingly.