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avaistheone1

(14,626 posts)
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 12:33 PM Jun 2015

Pesticides Killing Wild Bee Populations Necessary For World's Food Supply: Study

Source: International Business Times

Don’t believe everything you read on your pesticide packaging. A new Cornell University study has found that “safe for bees” pesticides may be harming the vital insects after all. In 19 New York state apple orchards, researchers found that increasing pesticide use resulted in smaller and less diverse bee populations. In contrast, natural habitats seem to help keep populations high. The orchards with natural habitats nearby may just attract more bees, though, so a stream of bees would be constantly replacing those dying from pesticides.

Mia Park, a doctoral candidate at the University of North Dakota and one of the authors of the study, said bees and people are a lot more intimate than one might think. “Because production of our most nutritious foods, including many fruits, vegetables and even oils, rely on animal pollination, there is an intimate tie between pollinator and human well-being,” she said.

Declining honeybee populations are a big problem, too. About 30 to 35 percent of the world’s food supply relies on pollination. Over the last decade, bee populations have fallen dramatically, and recent studies of bee populations have shown that their numbers were headed downward during the summer, too. Bee populations were previously only really looked at during the winter, when they are stressed and most vulnerable. Beekeepers say their colonies have declined by 42 percent in the last year, after a 34 percent drop the year before.




Read more: http://www.ibtimes.com/pesticides-killing-wild-bee-populations-necessary-worlds-food-supply-study-1954192



Note: even “safe for bees” pesticides may be harming bee populations.
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Pesticides Killing Wild Bee Populations Necessary For World's Food Supply: Study (Original Post) avaistheone1 Jun 2015 OP
K&R. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #1
Problem is, we cast 'the right to reproduce' as a human right. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #2
Yes BrotherIvan Jun 2015 #19
People need to be confronted with the necessity to make a personal choice. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #23
FIFRA conditional registration loophole allows 11,000 untested/undertested pesticides wordpix Jun 2015 #64
I hear what you are saying but what we are seeing now is the effects of the baby boom population jwirr Jun 2015 #4
In the United States, population growth has slowed BrotherIvan Jun 2015 #15
Agree with that. jwirr Jun 2015 #16
Thanks, Brer Ivan - I have never thought that through erronis Jun 2015 #32
I don't think we need to trick or force people BrotherIvan Jun 2015 #42
And our economy is based on demand The2ndWheel Jun 2015 #24
ah yes, another, "we must control the population!!" posts... Javaman Jun 2015 #6
Farmers justify the use of excessive pesticides with the need to fulfill the demand for so much food JDPriestly Jun 2015 #26
but you didn't answer the very sticky question... Javaman Jun 2015 #39
Totalitarian dictatorships are probably the only way to do it effectively NickB79 Jun 2015 #54
so you are okay then with a totalitarian leadership "solving" the problem???? Javaman Jun 2015 #61
Either we will do it voluntarily or involuntarily BrotherIvan Jun 2015 #20
Except we aren't. There's lots and lots of fallow former-farmland. jeff47 Jun 2015 #22
Exactly - we gave small farms that fed much of the population up so that big-agra could make money. jwirr Jun 2015 #27
Yes. But if the demand for food is there, farmers will use pesticides to get the food. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #34
The point is the demand for food is "not there". That's why there are many abandoned farms. jeff47 Jun 2015 #37
I can give you a perfect example... Javaman Jun 2015 #41
+1000 nt Javaman Jun 2015 #40
Or livestock production could / should come to an end. chernabog Jun 2015 #25
Unfortunately taking animals out of the farming equation leads to more petroleum BrotherIvan Jun 2015 #53
consumer shelves are full of the systemic plant insecticides, Corps will not give up sales. Sunlei Jun 2015 #3
Last year our bees died in the winter and we had to pollinate our own gardens by hand last summer. jwirr Jun 2015 #5
did you have CDD? nt Javaman Jun 2015 #7
CDD? It was an extremely long and cold winter. Almost all bees up here in NE MN died and we are jwirr Jun 2015 #8
Sorry CCD Javaman Jun 2015 #18
Thank you and that is what most of us up her had. As to the winter we use shelter for them either jwirr Jun 2015 #21
dang, that's tough. Javaman Jun 2015 #36
There were 4 hives and yes they all died. My son-in-law remembers helping his uncle work with his jwirr Jun 2015 #46
Sounds like a wonderful set up. :) Javaman Jun 2015 #47
Glad you were able to save at least half of yours. I suspect that some of them from our area were jwirr Jun 2015 #48
Good luck on your next go around. :) Javaman Jun 2015 #49
Will tell my son-in-law that. Thanks. jwirr Jun 2015 #51
Wow, that's pretty bad. I don't see many honeybees in my garden, but I get large numbers of ... dmosh42 Jun 2015 #10
Your bees... Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #12
Right smack dab in the middle of Los Angeles, I have bees upon bees, all knds of bees JDPriestly Jun 2015 #29
Yes, you're right about the weeds being a big supplier to the bees for food. Most of my sightings... dmosh42 Jun 2015 #43
My grandfather was a farmer and purposely planted fields of clover to replenish the soil and JDPriestly Jun 2015 #57
I'm seeing very few pollinators this year wordpix Jun 2015 #62
We are mostly talking about the bee population in the USA. What is happening to the bees in the jwirr Jun 2015 #9
China is suffering bee loss as well. historylovr Jun 2015 #17
But monsanto has to earn profits... Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #11
I have seen just one honeybee in the backyard this year IDemo Jun 2015 #13
Most varieties of tomato plants, from my reading, are self-pollinating. As a matter of fact,... dmosh42 Jun 2015 #45
I haven't seen ANY & a beekeeper has hives close to our community garden wordpix Jun 2015 #63
I am going to follow President Obama's suggestions about bee and butterfly gardens. Wonder how jwirr Jun 2015 #14
I also grow milkweed galore for my Monarch (and other) butterflies. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #33
Our extended family have lots of rural are as well as two homes in town and we get seeds to plant jwirr Jun 2015 #35
I was out in the yard this morning and a beautiful Monarch was flying around nipping at my JDPriestly Jun 2015 #67
I'm growing milkweed, too. You can get cheap seeds here: wordpix Jun 2015 #65
Come on, this is America chapdrum Jun 2015 #28
Bees, bees! They're everywhere! Your weapons are useless against them! Calista241 Jun 2015 #30
Humans are too ignorant , greedy, cruel and dumb. They ladjf Jun 2015 #31
We humans are too successful The2ndWheel Jun 2015 #38
We lost our bee colonies as did our neighbors and we are suspicious that use of pesticides and Cleita Jun 2015 #44
There seem to be ... sendero Jun 2015 #50
I really need to find the link to the study I read. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #52
I don't have much problem.... sendero Jun 2015 #56
there IS one thing absolutely clear: EPA, FDA & Dept. of Ag are all run by Bushits wordpix Jun 2015 #68
Which is why they need to consider banning the pesticides and being more vigilant in cstanleytech Jun 2015 #55
The Monsanto Years DirtyHippyBastard Jun 2015 #58
K&R n/t susanna Jun 2015 #59
"...bees and people are a lot more intimate than one might think." Peace Patriot Jun 2015 #60
I say yes to your q b/c pesticides are linked to neuromuscular disorders wordpix Jun 2015 #66
Wow! Bees with Alzheimer's (from aluminum pollution). Peace Patriot Jun 2015 #69

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
1. K&R.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 12:40 PM
Jun 2015

The fundamental problem is that, because we humans have overpopulated the earth and require so much food for our huge population, we are crowding out other species and the very plants we need to survive.

We need to control our birth rate and cut back on our own population, drastically cut back on our own reproduction. It's a question of survival. It is cruel to bring so many humans to life and thereby condemn so many of them to cruel death by starvation. There is simply a limit to the number of humans the earth can feed. And nature is not meant to consist only of humans and just enough food for a bare human existence of a few years.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
2. Problem is, we cast 'the right to reproduce' as a human right.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 12:46 PM
Jun 2015

And condemn countries like China that actually do try to limit the number of kids their people have. We simply can't get to a negative birthrate if some people are out there having 5, 10, or 19 kids and counting.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
19. Yes
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:17 PM
Jun 2015

We need to change it socially first and then we might be able to avoid the measures the Chinese took. If the depictions of happy families had just one child, it would start to sink in that over reproduction is not necessary for fulfillment. But we have kept so many ideas from 100 years ago, that we need large families because some may die. In the age of modern medicine, that doesn't happen anymore, so families like the Duggars should be shunned as irresponsible, selfish, and deranged.

Religious leaders in Christianity and Catholocism still decry the use of birth control. For those with enough money an access to get it anyway, they have a choice, but in other countries that is not true. And we still treat these lunatics as if they are worth listening to. Facing the crisis that we are and not only refusing to do anything about it but to even discuss it shows just how stupid and arrogant the human race is. The bees and the fish and birds are dying. A million canaries in the coal mine. But we as a species are not paying attention.

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
64. FIFRA conditional registration loophole allows 11,000 untested/undertested pesticides
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:42 PM
Jun 2015

This was passed as a FIFRA amendment in 1978 b./c the poor widdle chem companies complained they couldn't do the stringent testing required back then by the deadline. So now there are 11,000 or 65% of all pesticides either untested or undertested while they're on the market, and EPA can't track them all.

So if you think your food is safe, think again. As for me, I'm eating 100% organic. That still doesn't help the bees and butterflies

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
4. I hear what you are saying but what we are seeing now is the effects of the baby boom population
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 12:56 PM
Jun 2015

explosion. they are consuming now not giving birth. They in turn did not have 4-5 child families (or more) and have begun to bring the rate of birth down. And that trend has continued. Won't the population rate level off - at least in our own country - with younger generations?

What I see, at least in our own country, is that it is more how much we consume rather than how we are over populating. I agree that it would not hurt to have less births in the future per family but if we keep the consumption levels the same we are still screwed.

In the rest of the world I am not too sure it is not already too late to avoid the crisis that is coming and in some cases is already here. When you are looking at water pollution, land destruction, deforestation, poverty rates etc. it is going to take a miracle or a total collapse to rebuild those areas.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
15. In the United States, population growth has slowed
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:44 PM
Jun 2015

And yet we still celebrate obscenely large families and deny people access to birth control and family planning like it's the Middle Ages. And because of this, no pharmaceutical has produced a 100% reliable, pleasant, easy-to-use, inexpensive form of birth control. Why not? So over population is not necessarily a US only problem. It is the rest of the world too and that is because as a species we refuse to take responsibility for our destructive actions on this planet.

erronis

(15,303 posts)
32. Thanks, Brer Ivan - I have never thought that through
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:38 PM
Jun 2015

(Like most things)

Why would an industry (pharma) want to produce a pleasant-tasting reliable form of birth control when it would necessarily limit its future profits?

Just think of all the money that they are making off the likes of the Palins and Duggars by supplying them with placebos. Of course they are crapping on the US and the rest of the world to allow these idjuts to reproduce, but that's capitalism!

Just a thought - probably not PC: Perhaps we could start introducing sterilization drugs in coke (the drink), cheap beer, twinklees, etc. We do that around here for other varmints. Oh, wait - that's what flouridation is there for.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
42. I don't think we need to trick or force people
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:04 PM
Jun 2015

But we do need to have a cultural shift. As we have seen with activism by the LGBT community, they changed public opinion with a brilliant strategy in just a few decades. Because right was on their side. And we could do the same by encouraging less population and supporting people in making that choice by offering in birth control and incentives. Many people in other countries where birth control isn't available at all, due to culture or religion or a history of misogyny, don't have a choice at all. We could change all that.

Surprisingly, our crap food supply is doing the work for us. Cotton seed oil has been linked to male infertility and many couples are experiencing infertility issues which could be linked to nutrition. That's not just woo either. Our system is so out of whack on so many levels.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
24. And our economy is based on demand
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:26 PM
Jun 2015

And we want more people to have more money for those jobs that demand creates in order to stimulate more demand.

We have 4 options:
1. More people using more
2. More people using less
3. Fewer people using more
4. Fewer people using less

#2 is basically what the developing world is doing, relative to the developed world. #3 is what the developed world is doing, and immigration from the developing world is keeping population up. #1 is what we're doing in the big picture, since it's a combination of #2 and #3. #4 isn't what civilization is, so that's not really an option in terms of building a society.

Javaman

(62,530 posts)
6. ah yes, another, "we must control the population!!" posts...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:03 PM
Jun 2015

what do you suggest we do?

I'm waiting to hear.

Please don't derail the actual conversation, with your personal mission.

and try to stay on topic, you know, about the bees, okay?

I'm a beekeeper and perhaps banning these pesticides would work wonders. They have done just that many countries in Europe, like Germany and France.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
26. Farmers justify the use of excessive pesticides with the need to fulfill the demand for so much food
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:31 PM
Jun 2015

That is why population is the core issue in the use of excessive pesticides.

If the demand for food were lower and the demand for food without pesticides higher, the problem would be solved. That is why my post is relevant to this topic. I took it for granted that people would understand that.

Javaman

(62,530 posts)
39. but you didn't answer the very sticky question...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:52 PM
Jun 2015

that no one wants to ever answer...

how do we decrease population?

If demand was lower...again, to the question above?

let's first start with getting rid of the pesticides.

NickB79

(19,253 posts)
54. Totalitarian dictatorships are probably the only way to do it effectively
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 04:40 PM
Jun 2015

Which won't happen anytime soon, if ever, given our ingrained tendency to rebel against such social constructs given enough time.

So, we'll just keep cranking out kids until Mother Nature decreases the population for us, the hard way: http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/06/01/3653348/sixth-extinction/

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
22. Except we aren't. There's lots and lots of fallow former-farmland.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:21 PM
Jun 2015

It's not that we need pesticides to be able to feed all humans. We need pesticides to maximize profit per acre.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
27. Exactly - we gave small farms that fed much of the population up so that big-agra could make money.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:31 PM
Jun 2015

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
34. Yes. But if the demand for food is there, farmers will use pesticides to get the food.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:41 PM
Jun 2015

If the demand is more refined and more money is paid for organize produce, that is what farmers will produce.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
37. The point is the demand for food is "not there". That's why there are many abandoned farms.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:52 PM
Jun 2015

Pesticides are a cost-cutting measure. You get more money per acre being farmed, so you can farm fewer acres.

If we were actually at the "population bomb" point you describe, we'd be creating more and more farms. Not letting more and more farms go fallow.

Javaman

(62,530 posts)
41. I can give you a perfect example...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:00 PM
Jun 2015

A buddy of mine grew up on a farm in rural Illinois. Family owned for generations.

He moved, his grandma died, and his dad is elderly and probably doesn't have more than 10 years to live.

They had hundreds upon hundreds of acres. They grew beans. String beans I believe.

anyway, they started selling the land because no one the family wanted to be farmers or had moved away.

first an acre here than an acre there. then they got a huge offer from, I believe, a subsidiary of Cargil.

That was about 15 years ago.

Once viable farmland, with 20 to 30 feet of top soil now has acres of trees growing on it wild.

Cargil did nothing except cut out a possible competitor to the land.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
53. Unfortunately taking animals out of the farming equation leads to more petroleum
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 04:12 PM
Jun 2015

fertilizers. I'm not talking about factory farming here which is an abomination. But on a smaller farm, livestock fertilizes crops, chickens eat insects, sheep and goats clip grass. It's supposed to be a self-contained system. But we moved to millions upon millions of acres of the same crop against all farming wisdom for thousands of years. Eventually, the system will collapse.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
3. consumer shelves are full of the systemic plant insecticides, Corps will not give up sales.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 12:49 PM
Jun 2015

All pollinators will go extinct except for domestic commercial farm bees.

Even the domestic farm bees once corp. farms get a pollen spray or some equipment that pollinates they will not even use bees.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
5. Last year our bees died in the winter and we had to pollinate our own gardens by hand last summer.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 12:58 PM
Jun 2015

Thinking that will be the problem this year also.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
8. CDD? It was an extremely long and cold winter. Almost all bees up here in NE MN died and we are
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:11 PM
Jun 2015

not sure what it was. I have read that some think they died from lack of food when the winter went on so long. We have not refilled our hives yet. Kind of afraid of losing more bees again.

Javaman

(62,530 posts)
18. Sorry CCD
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:14 PM
Jun 2015

colony collapse.

it has to be tough up there with your winters. I don't know how you do it.

How many frames of honey do you leave in the hive for them to get through the winter?

I'm in Austin. We have long hot summers.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
21. Thank you and that is what most of us up her had. As to the winter we use shelter for them either
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:19 PM
Jun 2015

by moving their hives into sheds or blanketing them. As to the food we were just starting a new colony so we left everything in there for them to eat. And yet they died.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
46. There were 4 hives and yes they all died. My son-in-law remembers helping his uncle work with his
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:28 PM
Jun 2015

bees and is determined to get this going again. We have bees, chickens, turkeys, lambs, pigs, berries, apple trees and huge gardens.

It is a kind of a cooperative venture for our extended families. We all use it to supplement our incomes. We even butcher our own animals and can the excess garden produce together. Our old time farming venture.

This year they added genie hens - they have no idea what they are letting themselves in for. Wait until there are a couple dozen of them sitting in the trees making their god-awful noise early in the morning. They wanted them because they are good to get rid of ticks etc. and there were a lot of them last year.

When you add three cats and a dog it is like a zoo. In fact our neighborhood families bring their children over to see the animals.

Javaman

(62,530 posts)
47. Sounds like a wonderful set up. :)
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:33 PM
Jun 2015

have you tried sending off one of the bees to a university for research? We have Texas A&M here that does that.

a necropsy might shed some light. (pardon me, I'm not 100% sure if that's the right term for insects)

Honestly, I'm really sorry you lost them all.

I had two hives. I lost one last year to wax moths. Old foundations. Didn't rotate them out in time. My remaining hive is going strong and I hope to pull some honey at the end of this month.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
48. Glad you were able to save at least half of yours. I suspect that some of them from our area were
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:37 PM
Jun 2015

studied because this happened to almost all of us. But when we start again I will keep that in mind.

Javaman

(62,530 posts)
49. Good luck on your next go around. :)
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:40 PM
Jun 2015

if you kept the brood and super chambers, (some folks get rid of them after a die off and start anew - very expensive) you may want to do a closer than normal examination of them. Just incase it wasn't a mite or something. Check for eggs or anything unusual.

dmosh42

(2,217 posts)
10. Wow, that's pretty bad. I don't see many honeybees in my garden, but I get large numbers of ...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:13 PM
Jun 2015

bumblebees and others to do the job. I grow lots of flowers and buckwheat and similar plants in among the veggies and that attract many bees. I'm surrounded by tobacco farms(NC) that spray who knows what, so I'm lucky anything is alive to help me out. If I get any plants that get attacked by insects, I just let them go rather than use the insecticide. That way I know I'm eating clean healthy food.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
29. Right smack dab in the middle of Los Angeles, I have bees upon bees, all knds of bees
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:35 PM
Jun 2015

but mostly small ones. I have avocado trees, a couple of apricots too small to produce, pomegranate, a baby lemon and a couple of fig trees among others. (My lot is just an ordinary city lot but with lots of trees.) I let the wood sorrel grow as it will in the spring just in time to attract oodles, and I mean everywhere you look, bees. I think that part of the problem is that farmers are destroying the weeds. There just are no healthy places for bees to live. Bees need weeds in my not very well informed experience. I might be wrong, but those yellow wood sorrel flowers are just heavenly for the bees. I don't know whether orchards let the wood sorrel blossom and thrive. Does anyone know?

dmosh42

(2,217 posts)
43. Yes, you're right about the weeds being a big supplier to the bees for food. Most of my sightings...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:06 PM
Jun 2015

of honey bees are on the clover which grows a small white flower early in the Spring and into Summer. Amazing though, how you get all those bees inside the LA limits.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
57. My grandfather was a farmer and purposely planted fields of clover to replenish the soil and
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:52 PM
Jun 2015

create a healthy environment for all his plants.

Back then there was the soil bank and soil conservation. I don't know whether those programs exist today

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
62. I'm seeing very few pollinators this year
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:36 PM
Jun 2015

Bees have declined of course with these horrible pesticides but this year I've seen few bumble bees, which seem to be more immune or they were in the past. I had a hive under my deck and this year, I haven't seen any bumble bees coming in and out of there.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
9. We are mostly talking about the bee population in the USA. What is happening to the bees in the
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:12 PM
Jun 2015

rest of the world?

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
13. I have seen just one honeybee in the backyard this year
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:23 PM
Jun 2015

He was stumbling around on a patch of hard-packed earth, furiously scrubbing his face, toppling over like a drunk. I don't know if he was a CCD'd bee or just at life's end, but it wasn't pretty. I may have to look up how to do hand pollination of the tomato plant.

dmosh42

(2,217 posts)
45. Most varieties of tomato plants, from my reading, are self-pollinating. As a matter of fact,...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:10 PM
Jun 2015

I read where it's good to give your tomato plant a shake to help in pollination.

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
63. I haven't seen ANY & a beekeeper has hives close to our community garden
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:38 PM
Jun 2015

Last year I saw some but this year, NONE. And the wildflowers in the field where he keeps the hives are in full bloom.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
14. I am going to follow President Obama's suggestions about bee and butterfly gardens. Wonder how
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:24 PM
Jun 2015

the bees in the White House garden are making it?

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
33. I also grow milkweed galore for my Monarch (and other) butterflies.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:38 PM
Jun 2015

I was told that Swallowtails love anis, and I am hoping to find some to plant. We have lots of Monarchs here in Southern California. I understand that it takes 5 generations of Monarchs to migrate across to the Midwest and that very few of those we hatch here make it all the way because of the farming techniques in the Midwest. I used to live in the Midwest and loved all the butterflies I saw as a child. Please grow milkweed and anis for the butterflies.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
35. Our extended family have lots of rural are as well as two homes in town and we get seeds to plant
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:48 PM
Jun 2015

every year. I just moved into one of the homes in town and an going to start in that yard this year. I did a milkweed garden in the other couple of years ago.

I am a little old not but I think I am going to ask the greenhouse to do a large perennial planter to set in a corner of the yard. I can keep it watered if need be.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
67. I was out in the yard this morning and a beautiful Monarch was flying around nipping at my
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:50 PM
Jun 2015

milkweed and other plants. What a beautiful sight! Love them.

 

chapdrum

(930 posts)
28. Come on, this is America
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:33 PM
Jun 2015

The rights of corporations come first, more than ever now that they are "persons."
Another gift of sociopathic Republicans.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
38. We humans are too successful
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:52 PM
Jun 2015

Therefore, a threat to many forms of life. Greedy and cruel, yes. Smart, clever, and creative though too.

The one thing we don't like is limits. We can't stand them. That's true from the CEO of a corporation, to normal every day people who just want more rights. We do not like limits. We will do anything to get around them. Corporations don't like government regulation? Well, humans don't like natural limits. Nobody should be limited in what choices they can make or options they can have, etc, etc.

We're just really good at what we do.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
44. We lost our bee colonies as did our neighbors and we are suspicious that use of pesticides and
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:10 PM
Jun 2015

GMO crops and plants being used in this area might be the problem, not to mention the drought, although they did get water on our property.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
50. There seem to be ...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:47 PM
Jun 2015

.... as many opinions as to what is causing this as there are studies. One study says neonics are the cause, another study rules that out. Without knowing details about how the study was done, what the data was and how the interpretation came about, as well as who funded the study, there is no way to sort it all out.

Even if the science was clear and unimpeachable, I don't think our regulatorily-captured government would do the right thing. I think we are going to get to see what happens when most bees die.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
52. I really need to find the link to the study I read.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 04:09 PM
Jun 2015

It showed that incredibly minute amounts of neonics were doing bad things, below detectable amounts. Basically, the neonics were getting into the stuff being fed the larvae and screwing up the development of the 'midgut' (apparently bees have multiple stomachs), and this deformity was leaving them far more vulnerable to 'varroa mites' I think it was. So it was a chain of events. The neonic wasn't poisoning the bees outright, but leaving them with developmental defects as the first step in the chain.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
56. I don't have much problem....
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 05:28 PM
Jun 2015

..... believing that neonics are a large part of the problem. I believe the EU has outlawed them

But I have zero faith our governmental regulatory bodies will do anything about it, even if studies were more conclusive.

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
68. there IS one thing absolutely clear: EPA, FDA & Dept. of Ag are all run by Bushits
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:51 PM
Jun 2015

Seriously, I am a cancer survivor and have done a lot of research into food, agricultural chemicals and drugs for my type of cancer. I can only conclude that the revolving door and corrupt campaign finance system are alive and well in these agencies.

cstanleytech

(26,297 posts)
55. Which is why they need to consider banning the pesticides and being more vigilant in
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 05:15 PM
Jun 2015

approving new ones for the market.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
60. "...bees and people are a lot more intimate than one might think."
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:40 AM
Jun 2015

I work with dementia patients and one of their problems is that they forget where they are, and what they are doing, and why. They can't follow a minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day sequence any more. For instance, they may wander down the street and forget where they were going, or wander into traffic completely forgetting that it is dangerous; or, they don't remember markers of where they've been. In a convalescent home setting, a man who has dementia might wander into a woman's room, be told that it is a woman's and he shouldn't come in without knocking, and he might even be embarrassed that he had done so, in the moment, but he will do it again and again and again and again. He thinks he's walking into his own room. He cannot remember the markers--his bed, his belongings--that tell him that a room is or isn't his, and cannot remember the caution, from hour to hour, let alone day to day.

When I first read about bee colony collapse, there was a description of something similar happening in bee brains: They would leave the colony to forage and GET LOST, and never return. Their famous internal map of where they found nectar and how to get back to the hive, was gone. This particular study noted deterioration in the bees' brain matter, and pinpointed pesticides as the cause.

With Alzheimer's, you can also actually see the damage to the brain--the loss of brain matter--when the interior of the brain is imaged. That struck me, too. They could see the damage to bees' brains, and we can see the damage to human brains. It's a visible deterioration with the outward symptom being loss of memory. (I don't know if there is visible deterioration with all forms of dementia, but it is certainly true of Alzheimer's.)

My thought was this: Are pesticides causing dementia in humans, as they seem to be causing dementia in bees?

There is quite a lot of difference between humans and bees, though we are intimately linked by food. So I really don't know if this is a reasonable--or scientific--question to ask: If pesticides are harming bees, what are those pesticides doing to US? Since we are larger, more complicated beings, perhaps the impacts are absorbed at first, and the consequences delayed.

One thing I do know: We CANNOT trust the EPA when it says that something is "not harmful to humans," because, a) such a report is probably written by the corporation that is selling the harmful item, and the EPA just pretends that it is an EPA study or report (they do this all the time!), and b) the Republicans have so underfunded the EPA that it is critically understaffed and often can't do its own studies and can't properly peer review the ones that corporations present them with and that get re-issued under EPA's name. Also, c) neither the EPA nor the corporations that it serves utilize the "precautionary principle" ('don't sell it if there is a chance that it is harmful, until it is truly proven harmless), and they don't do (or require that corporations do) studies anywhere near the length of time needed for many products to be proven harmless. This is especially true as to the span of human life, and, say, a lifetime's worth of slow poisoning, by pesticides or other products. We may be only seeing the result NOW of pesticides or other harmful products that were invented decades ago and were deemed "safe" then but are not truly "safe" in the long term.

Are the bee die-offs early warning--like the canaries in the coal mine--of what's being done to US? Are the bees more vulnerable in the short term, while we are vulnerable in the long term?

This thought is not directly related to the imperiled "food chain" nor to the utter immorality of human-made pesticides killing these innocent, beautiful, hard-working critters. That our political system has allowed this to happen is APPALLING, quite apart from pesticide impacts on human health. I just wonder about the connection (the one I made between bee dementia and human dementia). If there IS a connection, perhaps our human political system could be forced to be more responsive.

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
66. I say yes to your q b/c pesticides are linked to neuromuscular disorders
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:47 PM
Jun 2015

including autism and Parkinson's disease. So I think Alz. disease is a definite possibility.

Also, there are links to many types of cancer if not all.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
69. Wow! Bees with Alzheimer's (from aluminum pollution).
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 03:33 AM
Jun 2015

Here's a fascinating, very recent study of heavy, heavy aluminum contamination in bees, which the researchers suggest may be causing Alzheimer's-like symptoms in bees (memory loss, can't find their way back to hive)...

Bee populations face another threat: aluminum

(SNIP)

Aluminum counts (in the studied bees) ranged from 13 parts per million to nearly 200 parts per million, with the smallest pupae hosting the highest concentrations. For perspective, an aluminum concentration of just 3 parts per million in human brain tissue can prove fatal.

(SNIP)

"Aluminium is a known neurotoxin affecting behaviour in animal models of aluminium intoxication," said Exley. "Bees, of course, rely heavily on cognitive function in their everyday behaviour and these data raise the intriguing spectre that aluminium-induced cognitive dysfunction may play a role in their population decline -- are we looking at bees with Alzheimer's disease?"

(my emphasis)
(MORE AT LINK)
http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2015/06/05/Bee-populations-face-another-threat-aluminum/4061433511839/


The article does not discuss the source of the aluminum contamination, except to mention "aluminum-tainted flower pollen" but it doesn't say how the flowers got tainted. I don't know if the original journal article mentions a source. (The link to the journal doesn't work.)
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