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Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 05:11 AM Jun 2015

'Suicide attack' at Karnak temple site in Egypt's Luxor

Source: BBC

A suicide bomber has blown himself up near the ancient Temple of Karnak in the Egyptian city of Luxor, police say.

Local media reported that three assailants were killed in the attack and that four bystanders were injured.

The assailants reportedly tried to storm a barricade at the temple, one of Egypt's most popular tourist sites.

Two of the attackers are believed to have been shot dead by police, but a third passed through barricade and detonated an explosive device.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-33077862

28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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'Suicide attack' at Karnak temple site in Egypt's Luxor (Original Post) Bosonic Jun 2015 OP
Theocratic maniacs romanic Jun 2015 #1
They're more like anarchists in that they don't care about how many Muslims are killed sinkingfeeling Jun 2015 #6
They are nothing like anarchists oberliner Jun 2015 #20
And the tourist business was already in the toilet. nt bemildred Jun 2015 #2
So true. avebury Jun 2015 #4
I was in Egypt during the summer of 1992 BumRushDaShow Jun 2015 #14
I was in Egypt in the fall of 2012. Morsi was in power and the demonstrations to get rid of him were sinkingfeeling Jun 2015 #7
It's not going to be pretty. bemildred Jun 2015 #8
What would make it better? oberliner Jun 2015 #21
Better for whom? bemildred Jun 2015 #22
You wrote that al-Sisi would make it worse. Worse for whom? oberliner Jun 2015 #23
If you want me to tell you what I think would make it better, you will have to tell me for whom. bemildred Jun 2015 #24
The people who live in Egypt? oberliner Jun 2015 #25
I don't think it's self-evident. nt bemildred Jun 2015 #26
where are the defenders of the extremist muslim brotherhood? Jesus Malverde Jun 2015 #3
I had a similar post hidden by an alerter screaming xx-phobia cosmicone Jun 2015 #9
It's a lousy advertisement for the Democratic Party Beauregard Jun 2015 #10
I just don't post most of my thoughts and opinions any more cosmicone Jun 2015 #12
Right here. Several things: Comrade Grumpy Jun 2015 #13
Outside of Sinai (Which is a different revolt) where are these dead security personal? happyslug Jun 2015 #16
Devastating to think these extremeists care nothing for human life... hlthe2b Jun 2015 #5
It looks like Karnak LibertyLover Jun 2015 #11
Unfortunately the Islamist fanatics would love to destroy Karnak bklyncowgirl Jun 2015 #15
But that is the Salafist/Wahhabi that SUPPORTS SISI not the Moslem Brotherhood happyslug Jun 2015 #17
Yes, I know that they would like to demolish all pre-Islamic sites. LibertyLover Jun 2015 #18
Your post is factually incorrect. It is Salafi jihadis who want to destroy the pyramids, not the MB. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2015 #27
More police than tourists in Egypt's Luxor after foiled attack bemildred Jun 2015 #19
How ironic. 2 days ago I got email: "Egypt is safe! Come!" mainer Jun 2015 #28

sinkingfeeling

(51,474 posts)
6. They're more like anarchists in that they don't care about how many Muslims are killed
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 10:25 AM
Jun 2015

by their attacks, how much of their own history is destroyed, nor the economic losses they cause. Seems like they seek to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
20. They are nothing like anarchists
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 10:13 AM
Jun 2015

In fact, they are the opposite of anarchists. They are very clear in their theocratic fascist aims.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
4. So true.
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 08:10 AM
Jun 2015

I was fortunate enough to visit Egypt before Mubarak was overthrown and it is was still safe to visit then. Our guides kept asking us to let people know that it was safe to visit Egypt but acknowledge that, when the time came and Mubarak was thrown out of office it could get really bad.

It was the first time that I ever visited a country overseas where we always had at least one armed "guard" with us when we were together as a group. It was very strange. There was only one time that I was concerned for our safety and that was when we were in Aswan and six of us had negotiated with a cab driver to get back to our ship. The guy try to renegotiate the fare during the drive but since our guide had told us not to pay more then 10 Egyptian Pounds, my fellow travelers refused to budge. The driver gave me really bad vibes as he started acting more irrational and my fellow travelers held out for a fee of less then the equivalent $2 US. They forgot the most important part of foreign travel, get back to hotel/ship/ whatever safely first then see what you can do about an incident. I do not think that any of the others realized just how badly things were beginning to spin out of control but I trust my gut instinct. I spoke up and indicated that we needed to get out of the car like now. I took command and ordered the driver to pull over and got everyone out. As luck would have it, he stopped by our ship on the Nile. Who knows where we would have ended up had I not taken charge. It was insane to get into a pissing contest with a crazy person when you are in a foreign country where it could cost you your life. That was my only bad experience in all of my years of travel.

BumRushDaShow

(129,566 posts)
14. I was in Egypt during the summer of 1992
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 12:29 PM
Jun 2015

not long after the end of the "Persian Gulf War".

The big cities like Cairo, Luxor, and Aswan were fine. But the smaller sites at Edfu and particularly Esna, were pretty rough - even with our group of about 100, which was entirely AA, where some in the villages with a predominantly Nubian population, were yelling out the n-word, one of the few English words they managed to learn from other tourists... (and they were "darker" than we were).

"Americans" tend to be spotted anywhere we go.

Those temples (both Karnak and Luxor, that actually are joined by a stone path - in some places lined with sphinxes), have been built on and "defiled" for literally a couple thousand years. In fact, there's a mosque jammed on part of the ruins of Luxor Temple that replaced an old Christian church that was there before.

sinkingfeeling

(51,474 posts)
7. I was in Egypt in the fall of 2012. Morsi was in power and the demonstrations to get rid of him were
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 10:29 AM
Jun 2015

starting. At that time, they reported only 33% of the tourist ships on the Nile were running. Our Muslim guide was very opposed to Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood. They people are so poor and dependent on tourism.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
8. It's not going to be pretty.
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 10:36 AM
Jun 2015

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how a guy like al Sisi is going to anything but make it worse.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
21. What would make it better?
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 10:14 AM
Jun 2015

They are unique in that they have significant monies from the US coming their way every year.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
22. Better for whom?
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 10:20 AM
Jun 2015

I don't think better is in the cards at this point. Better would involve making better choices about leaders. Too late for that now.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
23. You wrote that al-Sisi would make it worse. Worse for whom?
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 10:23 AM
Jun 2015

And is there a way for things to get better for whomever you meant?

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
24. If you want me to tell you what I think would make it better, you will have to tell me for whom.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 10:33 AM
Jun 2015

There is no better for everybody in this.

Edit: and yes, he will make it worse for everybody, he is a violent dude. So you could say that I think getting rid of al Sisi would make it better, getting somebody with a clue.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
25. The people who live in Egypt?
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 10:41 AM
Jun 2015

That's who I assumed we were both talking about, but then I was confused when you asked me "better for whom" since I thought it was self-evident.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
3. where are the defenders of the extremist muslim brotherhood?
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 07:57 AM
Jun 2015
jihadist militants have killed hundreds of security forces and government personnel since Mr Morsi, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, was ousted.

crickets
 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
9. I had a similar post hidden by an alerter screaming xx-phobia
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 11:06 AM
Jun 2015

DU is not what it used to be .... now one has to conform to the echo-chamber or one's posts get hidden repeatedly.

 

Beauregard

(376 posts)
10. It's a lousy advertisement for the Democratic Party
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 11:17 AM
Jun 2015

All this knee-jerk censorship. Just my newbie opinion, which, in this case, should count for something. I mean, DU wants more newbies, right?

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
12. I just don't post most of my thoughts and opinions any more
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 11:46 AM
Jun 2015

It is sad what the jury system has done to this once enjoyable board.

Jurors don't follow TOS -- they hide posts that they personally disagree with. Many 4-3 decisions to hide.

The jury system will be the creator of an ultimate echo-chamber here.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
13. Right here. Several things:
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 12:10 PM
Jun 2015

1. The MB had rejected the path of armed struggle since about 1980, instead reconstituting itself as a social movement/political party under the Mubarek dictatorship.

2. After the overthrow of Mubarek, the MB won the presidential elections and Morsi was the duly constituted president.

3. Although the MB controlled the presidency, it never controlled the repressive apparatus of the state (the "deep state&quot . It may have governed poorly, but it was not a monstrous, repressive state. That's the guys who are now back in power.

4. Egypt's "liberals" fucked up big time by begging the army to overthrow Morsi. They sacrificed Egypt's budding democracy for short-term political benefit--removing their hated foe--instead of doing what you are supposed to do in a democracy: win elections. Now, they get to share jail cells with the MB.

This is the key point. I'm not a fan of the MB. They are a conservative religious party. I wouldn't vote for them. But they played by the rules and they won. Democratically.

5. The military government massacred MB members, literally. They killed hundreds of them in one day in Cairo. They have arrested thousands. They have criminalized the country's largest social movement/political party. They have sentenced hundreds of people to death in kangaroo trials, including Morsi, who they sentenced to death for escaping from Mubarek's prisons!

6. If MB members picked up the gun at this point, who could blame them? But they shouldn't be blamed for things they haven't done. There was already a long-running, low-level Salafist insurgency before Morsi came to power. It has grown much stronger since he was overthrown. As during the hubbub of the Arab Spring, lots of people tried to blame the MB for acts of Islamist violence, when most of it is coming from the Salafist radicals. Whether people blamed the MB out of ignorance or malice, the effect is to make them responsible for all Islamic radicalism, when they were actually moderate compared to the Salafis.

7. Now, Egypt has a new military dicatorship, the liberals are cowed, and the MB is hunted like dogs. And the Salafist radicals are in the ascendant. Long live pharoah.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
16. Outside of Sinai (Which is a different revolt) where are these dead security personal?
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 02:05 PM
Jun 2015

The Sinai is in open revolt against the Government of Egypt, the revolt quieted down under Morsi, but has increase under Sisi. Many have allied themselves with ISIL:

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/06/10/415177/Egypt-Takfiri-militants-Sinai-Arish-Sheikh-Zuweid-Rafah

As a general rule "jihadist militants" are tied in with Salafist movement ("Wahhabism&quot which in turn is tied in with the House of Saud. The formed the "Al Nour" party during the revolution and supported the coup against Morsi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_movement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Nour_Party

The Moslem Brotherhood's political party was the "Freedom and Justice Party".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_and_Justice_Party_(Egypt)

Politically, differences between the two sides reached their most intense levels on issues regarding the question of whether women and Christians should be entitled to serve in high office.

Whereas the Muslim Brothers have recently shown some flexibility on this matter, the Salafis remain adamantly and uncompromisingly opposed on theological and legal grounds, maintaining that these command the ascendancy of Muslim men over women and non-Muslims in the conduct of public affairs in Muslim societies.

More recently, the Salafis and the Muslim Brothers have also come to loggerheads over foreign policy matters. The former have kept up constant pressure on the Muslim Brotherhood to prevent it from showing a more tolerant attitude towards Shia Iran. The Salafis also disapprove of President Mohamed Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood’s stances with respect to Israel and the West in general.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/News/502/32/Muslim%20Brothers%20and%20Salafis.aspx


In many ways the fight in Egypt reflects a Fight between "Wahhabism" and the Moslem Brotherhood, with the later being more open to new ideas and trends. The Moslem Brotherhood has also denounced violence for the saw what Gandhi did in India and decided it was the better option given the power of any Army in any Islamic country they were operating in.

"Wahhabism" tends to be more violent. ISIL is a "Wahhabism" off shoot. At the same time it is the Salafis/Wahhabi that get the support from Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf Emirates. Funding for the Moslem Brotherhood is more local and tied in with the Islamic Business community not the Oil Shrieks.

As to "jihadist militants have killed hundreds of security forces and government personnel since Mr Morsi, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, was ousted" what do you expect when a popularly elected President is removed by the use of Violence? Peaceful demonstrations? (Which actually were tried, and violently suppressed by the Egyptian Army).

In a series of tweets, the grandson of the late King Saud Bin Abdulaziz, alleged that around "$20 billion was stolen and divided between Al-Twijri and the Egyptian Generals." Despite the "billions showered on Egyptian generals like rain," he continued, "no single problem has been resolved. The Egyptians are still suffering from electricity, gas and bread crises. It is clear that the gang headed by him [Al-Twijri] stole the money with the Egyptian generals."

Why, he asked, are the officials responsible for this waste of Saudi wealth not asking Al-Twijri and the coup generals in Egypt about the money? "No one knows the nature of this aid – a gift, a loan or anything else," he added.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/16837-saudi-prince-calls-for-prosecution-of-officials-who-backed-egyptian-coup



It is quite simply staggering that, since Morsi was ousted, power outages due to the overloading of electricity mains and rolling blackouts have ended, fuel supplies have been in abundance after once bordering on scarcity, and crippling labor protests demanding pay rises have become a thing of the past. The so-called “Tamarod” demonstrations leading up to June 30 served to create a false veneer for imminent military intervention. Notwithstanding the dissatisfied masses voicing concern over the deteriorating state of affairs in Egypt, they harbored vicious gangs of thugs who have shamelessly and cowardly killed dozens of Egyptians, while thousands more have been wounded. The Muslim Brotherhood headquarters in Cairo and scores of affiliated offices across the country were besieged by Mubarak-era goons. Police troops turned a blind eye to the ransacking, looting, and torching that ensued......


On what has been dubbed “Black Wednesday,” an all-out joint offensive of the armed forces and riot police, backed by armored vehicles, helicopters, and bulldozers, was launched to nab rebels and disperse pro-legitimacy sit-ins at Rabaa Al Adawiya and Al Nahda Square. Stung by growing support for the sit-ins and condemnation of the ongoing bloodshed, the heavily-armed aggressors barbarically raided the two tent cities on August 14, using lethal force from the outset. Government forces bulldozed the encampments, bringing everything in their path to ruin and running over protesters helplessly trapped in crushed tents. Sandbag-lined barricades, shade canopies, camping tents, and stages built out of wooden planks were razed to the ground. Snipers inside helicopters flying at low altitude, assassination squads on rooftops, and ground troops opened heavy gunfire on unassuming, unarmed civilians—who were no match for the unrestrained, brute force of the state. Defiant protesters stood their ground in the face of a hail of bullets covered under the thick smog of teargas. As they tried to diffuse the situation by vacating the premises and fleeing the scene of the military operation—which resembled a war zone, compliant demonstrators were also met with deadly force. Some were struck by a barrage of bullets as they ran to seek refuge in adjacent buildings. The wrath of the assailants was then directed at the wounded and the dead. Inside the 6-story field hospital in Rabaa Al Adawiya, they set ablaze corpses and injured protesters with bullets lodged in their head, neck, or chest. Some of the victims' bodies have later been dumped outside overwhelmed city morgues. Security forces pillaged the remnants of the camps and set the Rabaa Al Adawiya mosque on fire. Persons arrested at Rabaa Al Adawiya and Al Nahda Square were transferred to prisons that can be described as concentration camps. While in police custody on August 18, 36 detainees were killed in a locked van by security forces. Acts of unmatched vindictiveness since August 14 have claimed some 2,600 lives besides thousands of injuries. In an effort to cover up the unparalleled violence by skewing the body count, victims' families have been pressured by morgue officials to sign certificates fraudulently declaring suicide to be the cause of death. The latest state-led massacre against protestors was carried out on October 6; at least 57 demonstrators were gunned down and hundreds were injured as they marched in support of democracy and opposition to the military coup. It is alarming, but not unforeseen, that only four policemen have been charged for the death of the 36 prisoners: their trial is ongoing. None of the other perpetrators of the aforementioned crimes have been arrested, much less prosecuted.,,,,,

https://www.opendemocracy.net/arab-awakening/ahmed-safwat/egypt%E2%80%99s-bloody-coup-d%E2%80%99etat


Yes, there has been violence, but most of it aimed at the Moslem Brotherhood NOT by the Moslem Brotherhood.

In two years of his rule, General-cum-President Sisi has killed over 3,000 peaceful opponents, injured 16,000 and detained over 40,000, a record that took Chile's Pinochet 13 years to accomplish.

- See more at: http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/four-traits-sisi-hitler-and-mussolini-have-common-1427651880#sthash.A9lRxn4z.dpuf

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/four-traits-sisi-hitler-and-mussolini-have-common-1427651880

hlthe2b

(102,384 posts)
5. Devastating to think these extremeists care nothing for human life...
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 09:01 AM
Jun 2015

but having spent a lot of time in Egypt in the past, to think they want to destroy the beyond comparable relics of ancient times, just leaves me heart-sick.

LibertyLover

(4,788 posts)
11. It looks like Karnak
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 11:33 AM
Jun 2015

wasn't damaged, for which I thank Amon-Re, Mut and Khonsu. It is a fabulously interesting and irreplaceable site and the idea that some idiot with delusions that his god is speaking to him and a pound or two of dynamite could destroy some of it is frightening to me. I've only been there 3 times and have so much more of the temple that I want to see, in particular the talatat from the Aten temple.

bklyncowgirl

(7,960 posts)
15. Unfortunately the Islamist fanatics would love to destroy Karnak
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 12:49 PM
Jun 2015

They have wreaked havoc on archaeological sites in Iraq and Syria. They would not hesitate to destroy Karnak or any other ancient sites in Egypt or anywhere else--not to mention Christian or any Muslim sites that do not reflect the beliefs of their particular sect.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
17. But that is the Salafist/Wahhabi that SUPPORTS SISI not the Moslem Brotherhood
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 04:41 PM
Jun 2015

Morsi was trying to undercut the 1% of Egypt and for this he was overthrown. Religion was a minor issue, the Salafist/Wahhabi are the more radical of the two, for the Moslem Brotherhood knows they have to deal with the REAL WORLD, something the Salafist/Wahhabi reject.

In the Election the Moslem Brotherhood came in on top, but #2 was the Salafist/Wahhabi group, who are supported by the House of Saud and as such allied with ISIL and the AL Queda (Al Queda is part of the Salafist/Wahhabi group and has helped the Taliban in their war in Afghanistan, but the Taliban are NOT Salafist/Wahhabi members, only Al Queda in Afghanistan is).

As far as the Moslem Brotherhood is concerned they see no need to destroy things that are NOT worshiped and they also want to work with Christians and even promote women. As Morsi said he wanted to be President of ALL EGYPTIANS not just Moslems. Thus the Moslem Brotherhood will NOT destroy anything, the Salafist/Wahhabi would but not the Moslem Brotherhood, and the Brotherhood have the support of most poorer Egyptians not the Salafist/Wahhabi (and this divide had become worse since the coup, with the Poor seeing who the Salafist/Wahhabi are supporting in the poor-rich divide).

LibertyLover

(4,788 posts)
18. Yes, I know that they would like to demolish all pre-Islamic sites.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 09:42 AM
Jun 2015

That has been a problem in Egypt for a long time. Heck, a few years ago the Muslim Brotherhood announced that should they be voted into power, they would destroy the pyramids. Actually several smaller and lesser known sites in Egypt have been defaced or destroyed by religious vandals in the last few years. What I love is that groups like IS or Muslim Brotherhood want to destroy pre-Islamic historical sites but they will happily use the latest in weapons and transportation.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
27. Your post is factually incorrect. It is Salafi jihadis who want to destroy the pyramids, not the MB.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 12:00 PM
Jun 2015
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3449/destroy-sphinx-pyramids

Murjan Salem al-Johari, one of Egyptian leaders of the Saudi-inspired Wahhabis, otherwise referred to as the "Salafis," said that it was the duty of all Muslims to destroy the Pyramids and the Great Sphinx just as the Taliban destroyed two ancient statues of the Buddha in Afghanistan in 2001.

"All statues in Egypt must be destroyed," al-Johrai declared in a TV interview. "Muslims must implement the rules of Sharia and we will destroy the statues of Sphinx and the Pyramids because they are idols."

-------------

There are many similar links.

Criticize the Muslim Brotherhood if you wish, but criticize it for its own actions, not those of others.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
19. More police than tourists in Egypt's Luxor after foiled attack
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 09:53 AM
Jun 2015

LUXOR, Egypt: The Karnak temple in Egypt's Luxor was open as usual Thursday despite a foiled suicide and gun attack on the world-famous site that police said would have been a "massacre."

At around 10:00 a.m., by which time dozens of tourist buses would normally be parked around the ancient temple, only seven coaches and three minibuses had arrived, an AFP correspondent said.

About 200 tourists were strolling inside the temple itself, around 50 meters (yards) from the scene of Wednesday's foiled attack, but were far outnumbered by police around the site.

A local official told AFP that several tours had been cancelled.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Jun-11/301584-more-police-than-tourists-in-egypts-luxor-after-foiled-attack.ashx

mainer

(12,031 posts)
28. How ironic. 2 days ago I got email: "Egypt is safe! Come!"
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 08:10 PM
Jun 2015

From a tour company advertising Egypt tours.

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