Supreme Court denies appeal seeking return of Jim Thorpe's remains
Source: Reuters
The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday rejected an appeal by a Native American nation and legendary athlete Jim Thorpe's surviving sons to have his remains moved from Pennsylvania to tribal lands in his home state of Oklahoma.
Richard and William Thorpe, along with the Sac and Fox Nation, claimed the remains were stolen from an ancestral grave during a burial ceremony and taken illegally to Pennsylvania by Thorpe's wife at the time, who was seeking to profit from the move.
The Supreme Court did not elaborate on its decision.
"Very few other Americans have experienced the forced removal of their parents casket from a funeral ceremony being conducted according to their familys beliefs something most would find shocking, to say the least," Thorpe's sons said in a joint statement.
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Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/05/us-usa-thorpe-oklahoma-idUSKCN0RZ23J20151005
US | Mon Oct 5, 2015 1:59pm EDT
OKLAHOMA CITY | BY HEIDE BRANDES
malthaussen
(17,217 posts)If the next-of-kin want to translate the remains somewhere, what is it to us? Or the Federal Government?
-- Mal
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Opinion of the Third Circuit Court of Appeals:
http://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/132446p.pdf
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)This all seems very odd.
Upon edit...sheesh, he died in 1953...the wife (his third) is deceased...he wasn't actually buried when the remains were transported to PA.
And Fox Nation?
No wonder the Court didn't want any involvement.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Not Fox Nation (as in Fox News).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sac_and_Fox_Nation
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Oh my gosh...needed that clarification badly.
yellerpup
(12,254 posts)Not for Jim Thorpe or his children. Not as long as there is a buck to be made on his bones.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Read the opinion of the Third Circuit Court of Appeals in this case, I posted it below. This action was only brought once Thorpe's daughter died, for she OPPOSED moving his body from Pennsylvania (as does her children to this day).
This is a inner family dispute that the three brothers (One of whom died during the litigation) opposed what they sister (and her family) want.
This also seems to be a dispute between the children of Jim Thorpe's first two wives children (Pasty, his third wife had no children). You can also call it a daughters vs sons fight, it appears the daughter, all from his first marriage supported Patsy's decision, while the sons, all from his second wife, appears to have opposed Patsy's plans. This litigation started in 2010, when the only surviving children were Thorpe's surviving three sons from his Second marriage, his daughters being 10-20 years older died first.
Jim Thorpe's first wife was Iva M. Miller, They had four children:
Gail Margaret (October 31, 1917 June 3, 2005),
James F. (May 8, 1918 September 28, 1919),
Charlotte Marie (September 16, 1919 December 8, 1998) (She supported the decision to bury Jim Thorpe in Jim Thorpe PA, as does her two sons, Michael Koehler and John Thorpe)
Grace Frances (December 10, 1921 April 1, 2008).
Article on Michael Koehler's position on this litigation and why he OPPOSES moving his Grandfather's body (as did his Mother):
http://www.tnonline.com/2012/dec/29/jim-thorpes-grandson-speaks-out-lawsuit
Freeda, Thorpe's Second wife, Freeda Verona Kirkpatrick (September 19, 1905 March 2, 2007). They had four sons:
Carl Phillip (May 1, 1927 March 18, 1986),
William K., (one of the present Plaintiffs who want to return the body to Oklahoma)
Richard A. (one of the present Plaintiffs who want to return the body to Oklahoma).
John R. "Jack" (June 29, 1937 February 22, 2011 (He was the original plaintiff, but died during the litigation, but had objected to the burial in Pennsylvania at the time of Jim Thorpe's death)
haikugal
(6,476 posts)Sad.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)See my comments above.
bigworld
(1,807 posts)Yes. It was his wife's call.
Was it the right, moral decision? Probably not.
But it shouldn't be up to the kids. What if the kids disagreed on where it should go? What a mess.
Rest in Peace, Jim.
Squaredeal
(399 posts)happyslug
(14,779 posts)His Daughters all all deceased, but they children appear to oppose any movement of Jim Thorpe's body (And at least one of the Daughter had expressed objections to any move). Please note his daughters have a different mother then Thorpe's sons who reached adulthood. His daughters were 10-20 years older then his sons from his second marriage.
Pennsylvania Court has jurisdiction if there is a family dispute as to moving a body, but under State Law, if the family members can not agree, the body stays were it is. Thus the sons tried to used Federal Law to move the body and the Third Circuit said NO, the law regarding museums and bodies of Native Americans was NOT intended to move a body given a decent burial, but directed as Museums who had grabbed such bodies in the past for their own use. Thus the sons who want to move the body has to go to Pennsylvania State Court to move the body and it is clear the State courts will NOT permit such a move if the family members can not agree among themselves.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The wife IS the "primary next of kin." That might be painful to the kids, but absent an express wish in a last will, it's hard to make a case.
If the wife didn't violate any laws, she had the right to take the remains.
The guy has been dead for many years - let him RIP.
I found another article that might help shed light-the wife wanted her husband HONORED and the tribes would not commit to doing that: http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-supreme-court-jim-thorpe-20151005-story.html
They erected a red-granite mausoleum with statuary that for years has been a tourist attraction.
The legal fight to return Thorpe's body to his home state began several years ago. The Supreme Court left in place a lower court ruling that he stay put.
Squaredeal
(399 posts)happyslug
(14,779 posts)See the decision of the Third Circuit I cited below.
yellerpup
(12,254 posts)"My Father's Bones" is a play by lawyer-activist, Mary Kathryn Nagle and famed poet Suzan Harjo, that documents this struggle of the Thorpe sons to retrieve their father's remains and bury him in the family graveyard. Thorpe's third ex-wife made a deal with a little town in Pennsylvania that wanted to have a tourist attraction and was willing to rename itself Thorpe and build a monument, so essentially she licensed his name and his remains. The grieving family was just putting him into his grave in Oklahoma when the sheriff showed up and spirited his body away by force.
http://ygsna.sites.yale.edu/event/mary-kathryn-nagle-and-suzan-harjo-return-yale-my-father-s-bones
happyslug
(14,779 posts)And it appears till their dying days they remain steadfast in their position that his body should stay in Jim Thorpe PA AND their Children (Jim Thorpe's grandchildren) also agree with that position to this day.
BumRushDaShow
(129,534 posts)All my life (almost 54 years) I grew up hearing the town name "Jim Thorpe, PA" and never really looked into the history behind it outside of being vaguely aware of the athlete of that name. Sortof tossed it into the pile of other uniquely named PA towns like "Intercourse" and our local one outside of Philly - "King of Prussia".
Thanks all in this thread who provided some insight!
gregcrawford
(2,382 posts)... the precedents that have already been decided in cases involving the return of Native American remains to the decedent's tribe should have been the guiding principle in this case. That Patricia Thorpe hijacked the casket to exploit her late husband's body for personal financial gain should have been a factor as well. But then, we ARE talking about the most corrupt and morally bankrupt Supreme Court majority in living memory, if not all of American history, so the fact that they disregarded settled law when it inconvenienced their prejudices should come as no surprise.
former9thward
(32,082 posts)are they still "the most corrupt and morally bankrupt Supreme Court majority in living memory"? And BTW since they did not accept the case it means at least one or more of the liberals agreed with the decision.
gregcrawford
(2,382 posts)I stand by my assessment. You're welcome to think whatever you like, but the five-member conservative majority have a very ugly record, with a few surprising exceptions.
former9thward
(32,082 posts)gregcrawford
(2,382 posts)And that ends this discussion.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)The Third circuit ruled that the INTENTION of CONGRESS was to give back Native American bodies that had been taken and given to museums NOT to return bodies of Native Americans who just happened to be buried in graveyards. Thus the court ruled that the 1990 law on the return of such bodies to their tribe did NOT apply in this case for the memorial to Jim Thorpe was NOT the type of Museum the act was aimed at.
Please note, his daughters all supported his third wife's decision to bury him in Jim Thorpe Pa. All three daughter, all from his first wife, opposed moving his body from Pennsylvania. This is the position their children take to this very day. It is his sons, all from his second marriage, who want to return the body to Oklahoma.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Last edited Mon Oct 5, 2015, 10:48 PM - Edit history (3)
http://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/132446p.pdfOver fifty years passed between Jim Thorpes death and this challenge to his burial. The Plaintiffs waited for their sister, Grace Thorpe, to die before instituting this action because she did not agree that Thorpes remains should be removed from the Borough. App. 414. In addition, Plaintiffs did not challenge the disposition of Thorpes estate in California immediately after his death. App. 390.
Footnote 11 states other problems:
Now the court ruling was based on Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA).
As we have explained, NAGPRA requires repatriation of human remains from museums, where those remains have been collected and studied for archeological or historical purposes. 25 U.S.C. § 3005. It is clear from the legislative history we have recounted above that Congress was also concerned with returning to Native American tribes the human remains and artifacts that had been taken for profit, gain, exploitation, or rank curiosity without regard to the concerns of the Native American tribe whose legitimate and paramount interest should have been recognized. However, the definition of museum in the text of NAGPRA sweeps much wider than that. If interpreted literally, it would include any state or local governmental entity that has possession of, or control over, Native American cultural items[] regardless of the circumstances surrounding the possession. This could include any items given freely by a member of the tribe. Here, it would include human remains buried in accordance with the wishes of the decedents next-of-kin. Literal application would even reach situations where the remains of a Native American were disposed of in a manner consistent with the deceaseds wishes as appropriately memorialized in a testamentary instrument or communicated to his or her family. There is therefore no limitation that would preserve the final wishes of a given Native American or exempt determination of his or her final resting place from the procedural requirements of NAGPRA.16.
As stated in the House Report, [t]he purpose of [NAGPRA] is to protect Native American burial sites and the removal of human remains. H. R. Rep. (emphasis added). NAGPRA was intended as a shield against further injustices to Native Americans. It was not intended to be wielded as a sword to settle familial disputes within Native American families. Yet, that is what we would allow if we were to enforce NAGPRAs repatriation provisions as written here.
The court then quote from Thrope's Grandson's brief:
Finally the court said:
Please note in Footnote 17 of the opinion, the court noted the plaintiff could file an action in Pennsylvania State Court to move the body. Such action is permitted in Pennsylvania where they is a dispute as to such a move, but the burden in on the people who want to move the body to show the family members who are objecting are doing so unreasonably. Given that Jim Thorpe is in a mausoleum and that some of his surviving grandchildren want him to stay there I do not see a Pennsylvania Court permitting such a move UNLESS all of the family members agree.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)The railway is some times called the First American Roller Coaster. it was the main attraction to what is now Jim Thrope till it closed down in the 1930s.