Russian airliner Flight KGL9268 crashes in central Sinai

[MowCowWhoHow III]

Last edited Sat Oct 31, 2015, 07:06 AM - Edit history (2)

Source: BBC

A Russian airliner has crashed in central Sinai with more than 200 people on board, the office of Egypt's prime minister has confirmed.

The Airbus A-321 had just left the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, bound for the Russian city of St Petersburg.

Wreckage of the plane has been found in the Hassana area and bodies removed. An official described a "tragic scene".

Flight KGL9268 disappeared from radar screens when travelling at 9,500m (31,000ft), Egyptian officials said.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34687139

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https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CSo-f8yVAAAu3z8.mp4

[Berlin Expat]

1. Yeah, apparently

the plane has indeed gone down. There was some earlier confusion, but I just checked Flightradar24.com, and it's not there - it's currently listed as "unknown".

Here's Flightradar24's Twitter feed, which is being updated regarding the flight: https://twitter.com/flightradar24

[MowCowWhoHow III]

2. Wreckage found as Russian passenger plane crashes in Sinai: Egypt

Last edited Sat Oct 31, 2015, 12:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Cairo (AFP) - A Russian passenger plane carrying 224 people crashed on Saturday in Egypt's restive Sinai Peninsula, Egyptian officials said.

A "Russian civilian plane... crashed in the central Sinai," the office of Prime Minister Sharif Ismail said in a statement.

A cabinet statement said Egyptian military planes have spotted wreckage of the plane.

"Military planes have discovered the wreckage of the plane... in a mountainous area, and 45 ambulances have been directed to the site to evacuate dead and wounded," the statement said.

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-civilian-plane-crashes-sinai-egypt-pm-080736703.html;_ylt=AwrC1CnfhjRWMhsA.KbQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

[jfern]

3. ISIS?

[Berlin Expat]

4. Apparently,

it was an 18-year old plane involved in the crash, and according to The Guardian,

Egyptian media are reporting that the Russian plane crashed due to “technical failure”.

Ayman Al-Mokadem, the Egyptian pilot appointed to invetigate the cause of the crash, told Ahram Online that the Metrojet pilot had made contact with aviation authorities and asked to land at the nearest airport.

He speculated that the plane had been attempting an emergency landing at Al-Arish’s airport in North Sinai.

Egyptian authorities have been very quick to stress that terrorism is not the cause of the crash, but we have yet to get independent confirmation that technical failure was behind the incident.

The black boxes will be analyzed soon enough and then we'll know. Terrorism is a possibility, given the area, but for now, I'll go with some kind of catastrophic mechanical failure. Sadly, that happens (though if I'm not mistaken, the #1 cause for airline crashes is "pilot error&quot .

[BlueEye]

6. Solid analysis, thank you.

Yes, CNN is reporting that the Russian Foreign Ministry does not suspect terrorism at this time.

The timing of the incident is interesting. Although the most common phases of flight for accident are takeoff and landing, it does seem that if there was to be a "third most common" phase of flight for crashes, it would be the first 20-25 minutes of climb, up to cruise altitude. That appears to be roughly where this aircraft was. There was reportedly pilot mayday call, followed by (according to Flightradar24) some erratic changes in vertical speed (both up and down) followed by a total loss of control. My initial gut reaction is that this sounds like a catastrophic failure of one or more control surfaces. Total speculation of course.

At any rate, RIP to the victims

[Adrahil]

10. Agree... Maybe failure of the elevators?

That would be consistent with rapid changes in altitutde.

[6chars]

16. would that cause rapid deceleration?

According to radar, the plane had been travelling at around 400 knots an hour before plummeting to 93 knots an hour in one second. Contact was then lost.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4718746,00.html

If that is correct, it sounds like it would be caused by an explosion of some sort, right? (I am not an expert, but that's a lot of deceleration)

[Adrahil]

23. Hmm... Reminds me of....

The crash of the 757 when the thrust reversers deployed in-flight.... But one second? That sounds like a catastrophic failure.

[BlueEye]

30. Take a look at his graph from Aviation Safety Network:

:large

It went down before it went up. That's an interesting thought on the accidental TR deployment...

[icymist]

36. A stall and then a recovery, then another stall? Within 3 minutes? Serious G-forces there.

Here's a picture of the airbus aircraft that crashed.

[BlueEye]

29. That's what I was thinking.

Alaska Airlines Flight 261 in 2000 comes to mind as a catastrophic elevator failure. That was an MD-80, this is a fly-by-wire (FBW) Airbus, and I'm not familiar with any FBW accident with a profile this extreme. Usually those accidents are more subtle issues that lead to crashes, a la Air France 447. With this crash, we're looking at plane that fell 31,000 feet in a few minutes. So if it was the elevator, I'd have to imagine it was hydraulic or mechanical, rather than computer related.

[nitpicker]

5. BBC now saying a black box found

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-34687309

[MowCowWhoHow III]

7. Update - Egyptian officials say there are no survivors from the crash of Russian airliner in Sinai -

Update - Egyptian officials say there are no survivors from the crash of Russian airliner in Sinai - 224 people were on board

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/660429118211780608

[EL34x4]

8. Pilot reported mechanical problems.

Requested emergency landing in Cairo.

I doubt ISIS was involved.

[MowCowWhoHow III]

9. IS group in Egypt claims it downed Russian airliner

IS group in Egypt claims it downed Russian airliner

Cairo (AFP) - The Islamic State group's affiliate in Egypt has claimed it downed the Russian passenger plane that crashed Saturday in the Sinai Peninsula, where the jihadists are waging an insurgency, killing all on board.

"The soldiers of the caliphate succeeded in bringing down a Russian plane in Sinai," said the statement circulated on social media.

http://news.yahoo.com/group-egypt-claims-downed-russian-airliner-141443087.html;_ylt=AwrC0wyczTRW8hoAh5PQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

Unconfirmed claim so far of course.

[hedgehog]

24. Well, of course they are.

[MowCowWhoHow III]

27. Keep an open mind, their sponser(s) give them upscale kit

(July 16, 2015) ISIS-linked militants target Egyptian navy ship off Sinai coast

CAIRO -- An Egyptian navy vessel was targeted on Thursday by militants affiliated with the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), who said they destroyed it with a rocket while it was anchored off the Sinai peninsula's Mediterranean coast.

Egyptian military spokesman Brig. Gen. Mohammed Samir said the vessel caught fire in an exchange of fire with "terrorists" on the shore and that there were no fatalities among its crew members. He did not say how much damage the vessel suffered and gave no details on the type of ship or the size of its crew.

However, security officials said an unspecified number of crew members suffered injuries from the fire and that several of them jumped overboard to escape the raging fire.

The Egyptian ISIS affiliate, which calls itself the Sinai Province of the ISIS, said it destroyed the vessel with a rocket. Its claim of responsibility came in a statement posted on Twitter accounts known to be linked to the group.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-linked-militants-target-egyptian-navy-ship-off-sinai-coast/

[hedgehog]

39. I stand corrected.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141251223

[CTyankee]

11. It was an Airbus which I've flown to Europe in several times. It is supposed to be a very good

plane.

I might be on an Airbus next April, on Alitalia heading to Rome (then on smaller equipment to Sicily). This scares me...

[FLPanhandle]

12. It's not the aircraft as much as it is the airline

Russian airlines are not known for their maintenance, training, or safety.

Airbus or Boeing in bad hands isn't safe. Airbus or Boeing used and maintained properly with trained mechanics and experienced pilots is safe.

Just don't fly a bad airline.

[Fred Sanders]

13. Well said. Age has little to do with the safety of any modern aircraft, but maintenance has a lot to

do with it.

[uawchild]

19. Flight crew experience is a growing issue..

As is the case in many countries, air travel growth has been enormous in Russia, with many new air lines being formed and existing ones expanding rapidly -- leading to a shortage of experienced flight crews.

Highly computerized modern aircraft, like this particular Airbus, allows relatively inexperienced crews to fly them safely under normal conditions. But concerns have been raised that when the unusual happens and the issue is not handled smoothly by the software that less experienced pilots get confused and actually exacerbate the problem.

[CTyankee]

14. I never did plan on visiting Russa. Now I am sure to not change my mind...

[NutmegYankee]

15. It still has a very safe record.

As do the major Boeing planes. Even the Brazilian Embraer and Canadian Bombardier (often called Canada Air Regional jets) have good records.

The Top 5 safest:


1. 0.00 - Airbus A340
2. 0.05 - Embraer 170/190
3. 0.07 - Boeing 747-400
4. 0.08 - Boeing 737-600/700/800/900
5. 0.10 - Airbus A320 (includes A318, A319, A321)

[BumRushDaShow]

17. A good chunk of the USAir/(now) American Airlines flights are Airbus now

replacing the old 727s & 737s. Was on an A319 a couple months ago.

My first time on one was almost 25 years ago in Egypt (traveling intra-country - i.e., Cairo to Luxor, then Aswan to Abu Simbel, back to Aswan, and finally back to Cairo).

[MowCowWhoHow III]

18. Lufthansa, Air France avoid flying over Sinai after crash (Reuters)

Lufthansa, Air France avoid flying over Sinai after crash (Reuters)

Oct 31 Two of Europe's largest airlines have decided to avoid flying over the Sinai peninsula while they wait for clarity on what caused a Russian airliner carrying 224 passengers to crash in the area on Saturday.

German carrier Lufthansa and Air France-KLM have decided to avoid the area for safety reasons, spokeswomen for the carriers said on Saturday.

"We took the decision to avoid the area because the situation and the reasons for the crash were not clear," a Lufthansa spokeswoman said. "We will continue to avoid the area until it is clear what caused the crash." Lufthansa has less than 10 flights a day that cross the area, she said.

"Air France confirms it has set up, as a precaution, measures to avoid flights over the zone of Sinai," the spokeswoman for the carrier said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/31/egypt-crash-airlines-idUSL8N12V0Q520151031

[uawchild]

20. Um... i hope this is in an excess of caution... n/t

[hedgehog]

25. I would tend to think it is indeed an excess of caution.

And despite my pooh-poohing any claims by Isis above, it only makes sense to avoid an avoidable risk, no matter how small.

[restorefreedom]

21. ....

[uppityperson]

22. K&r

[LittleBlue]

26. How did Isis shoot down a jet at 31k feet?

This sounds really bad. Hope to God that wasn't done with American or Saudi weaponry.

Hopefully it was just mechanical. RIP

[FLPanhandle]

28. They probably didn't

It's all claims for publicity right now. Highly doubtful claims at best.

[roamer65]

31. There were a lot of anti-aircraft missiles that went missing in Libya.

I suspect it was either one of those or a bomb smuggled onboard via IS sympathetic airport staff at Sharm El-Sheik.

[EX500rider]

34. Yeah I'd go with the bomb theory..

...the Egyptian forces have been chasing the terrorists all over the Sinai, I don't see them hiding a large SAM system for any time there. And MANPADS (shoulder fired SAM's) won't reach 31,000ft

[leveymg]

38. Agree with that.

We will see. Lots of reasons to downplay a shoot down, though.

[Sunlei]

32. a very sudden stop of airspeed and plunge to ground.

[CTyankee]

33. that is scary. Now I'll have bad dreams...

[roamer65]

35. BBC is now reporting that no SOS or emergency call was sent from the aircraft.

The Egyptian civil aviation minister says no messages were sent from the aircraft and that it simply disappeared from radar screens.

Not good.

[herding cats]

37. The Latest: Co-Pilot's Wife: He Complained About Plane

CAIRO, Egypt — The latest news on a Russian passenger plane that crashed Saturday on a flight from Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, to St. Petersburg, Russia.

11:15 p.m.

The wife of the co-pilot of the Russian plane that crashed in Egypt says her husband had complained about the plane's condition, according to a Russian TV channel.

State-controlled NTV ran an interview Saturday with Natalya Trukhacheva, identified as the wife of co-pilot Sergei Trukachev. She said that a daughter "called him up before he flew out. He complained before the flight that the technical condition of the aircraft left much to be desired."

An Egyptian official had previously said that before the plane lost contact with air traffic controllers the pilot had radioed and said the aircraft was experiencing technical problems and that he intended to try and land at the nearest airport.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/10/31/world/middleeast/ap-egypt-russian-plane-the-latest.html