Postal Workers Snub Clinton, Back Sanders

[cal04]

Source: US News

Sanders wins backing of American Postal Workers Union, his largest labor endorsement

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders secured the endorsement of the 200,000-member American Postal Workers Union on Thursday, marking the largest labor union to back his Democratic presidential campaign.

The union's decision gives Sanders a boost heading into the second Democratic debate in Iowa on Saturday and comes as the Vermont senator has sought to halt a string of labor endorsements to Democratic front-runner Hillary Rodham Clinton.

The postal workers' union said Sanders has a long history of supporting its workers and pointed to his efforts to keep open post offices and mail-sorting plants in rural communities, oppose slower delivery standards and fight attempts to privatize the mail service.

Read more: http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2015/11/12/postal-workers-union-endorses-bernie-sanders-for-president

---

U.S. postal workers union endorses Bernie Sanders for president in 2016
The U.S. postal workers union's executive board said on Thursday it had voted to endorse Bernie Sanders for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2016, the union said in a statement.

The endorsement was a setback for Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton, who has been vying with Sanders, her chief rival, for the support of organized labor.

"Politics as usual has not worked. It's time for a political revolution," said Mark Dimondstein, president of the postal workers union. Dimondstein called Sanders, a U.S. senator from Vermont, "a true champion" of workers.

http://whbl.com/news/articles/2015/nov/12/us-postal-workers-union-endorses-bernie-sanders-for-president-in-2016/

[Chef Eric]

1. This is not a "snub" of Clinton.

It's endorsing the candidate who has their backs.

[PotatoChip]

4. I k&r'd this, but you make a good point.

Words matter. Even a single word.

That one is unnecessarily divisive. I realize that it is the actual title of the article, but wish the OP would consider using your term instead.

-Just my 2 cents, fwiw.

ETA: Never mind. I just realized that we are in the latest breaking news forum where the original title is required.

[cal04]

5. I agree. Not sure why the author

chose to write that. It was the only article I could find, so I posted

[PotatoChip]

8. I understand.

And under LBN rules, you have to use the original title anyway.

[riversedge]

43. U.S. postal workers union backs Sanders' presidential bid--Title for second link would

have been less decisive to post.

[cal04]

49. I agree. I found the other article after I posted the original and only had time to add

it because I was late for work. By the tine I got to work most people read it so I decided to leave it alone.
Thank you for your post

[Fred Sanders]

20. The "author" is AP, supplier of propaganda feed for the American mass media propaganda mills.

Politics has to personalized to get the "buzz". "Snub" is so much more interesting than "endorsed by"....maybe AP will start using "snub" more in headlines as hundreds more endorsements yet to go!

One is endorsed, everyone else is "snubbed"!?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

10. Will President H.Clinton remember this as a snub?

Or will she be magnanimous in her treatment of unions that endorsed others?

Mail carriers can be replaced by H1B workers if there is a shortage of qualified mail carriers.

[lewebley3]

50. If it is snub to Clinton; Then more unions have snub Sanders

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. And there you have it.

"Politics as usual has not worked. It's time for a political revolution," said Mark Dimondstein, president of the postal workers union.

Anybody who realizes that has only one candidate worth voting for this time around.

[azurnoir]

3. X -effing-actly and thankyou

[Enthusiast]

6. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

[Android3.14]

7. This shows the courage to stand up for what is right in the face of a vindictive frontrunner

They could have curried favor with Clinton, but they know she will abandon them as soon as her corporate masters deem it expedient to change tracks in order to compromise with the GOP Crazy Train.

[Omaha Steve]

9. Here is the press release

For more information, visit http://www.apwu.org/

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. I'm sure that Clinton will remember this when this union comes begging for help

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

16. What can she do for them? Oh' you're still assuming she'll be President.

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. assuming?

all evidence points to it....its not a big stretch.

she DOES have a 92% chance now...

Sanders 8%

Good luck with that

indeed!

[d_legendary1]

74. That's why she beat out Obama in '08

Oh wait...

[VanillaRhapsody]

98. this is not '08

and he ain't Obama...

did Hillary ever have 92% odds then?

and THAT is why I'm laughing...

[d_legendary1]

104. It was her turn then too!

When will you guys ever learn to never count your chickens before they hatch?

[VanillaRhapsody]

105. And maybe that was then...this is now...

did she or did she not have a 92% chance in '08?

When will YOU guys ever realize...8% to 92% is damn near impossible to overcome...particularly when you already have OVER half of the allotted SuperDelegates.....the SAME method Obama used to defeat HER in '08?


Bernie does not have the campaign finance, structure or ground game that President Obama had in 2008

[d_legendary1]

106. I'm not a gambling man

I don't care what her percentages were then or what they are now. All I know is that she was the next POTUS at the time until a well spoken senator from Illinois made the scene and she started losing ground. After that it was about the white vote, elitists, and taking shots in the south.

She may have the super delegates but would they have the balls to vote for her should she lose the popular vote?

And although Sanders doesn't take corporate cash he does have volunteers working for him. Social media will be the game changer.

[VanillaRhapsody]

107. its not about money....

its called ODDS for a reason....

and why would they leave her...she HAS the popular vote...that's the point...and WHY she has a 92% odds.

Do you understand Statistics and Probability?

Sanders has a pair of deuces....Clinton has 3 of 4 Aces already what are the odds Sanders draws 2 more deuces before Clinton draws another Ace? Do you bet against her that hand?

[d_legendary1]

108. Its still early in the season

And as someone who ran polls in college yes I understand statistics and probability. The problem is that in order for either to remain high for HRC everything has to remain constant for her. And in this ever changing world nothing lasts forever. People change their minds on a daily basis.

You can continue to hold onto that lead like in 08, but once people figure out who is going to bat for them they'll start to change their minds. Bernie's done the impossible before. I see no reason why he should not do it again.

Clinton, on the other hand, has managed to take defeat from the jaws of victory once. I'm betting that she will do it again (and this will be my only bet).

[Reter]

96. He said President

You're talking about primaries.

[Freddie Stubbs]

55. It is much safer to assume that she will be President than Sanders

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

64. Safe from what? You'd be much safer with Sanders.

[VanillaRhapsody]

99. it wasn't about Safety...

it was about a SAFE bet....

the bet is she will win the Primary with 92% certainty....that's better odds than some forms of birth control!

[Ed Suspicious]

19. She'll remember it and do what, do you suppose?

[Freddie Stubbs]

56. Perhaps laugh and tell them to bring it up with "President Sanders"

[JackRiddler]

90. Charming example of politics as usual.

Tammany much?

[Rogue Democrat]

24. Where will she be?

Future President Sanders questions your logic.

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. you mean 8% chance President Sanders?

You must mean one of his Grandchildren in 2025

[Kingofalldems]

31. Another anti union post.

This union begs no one.

Your post looks like it comes from free republic.

[pintobean]

36. +1

I just voted to hide it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

57. 1. Unions don't serve their members well when they make bonheaded decisions

2. A jury of DUers seems to think this post is fine:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1257518

[Kingofalldems]

58. What does that have to do with calling them beggars?

That's what republicans call unions and their members.

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. I didn't call anyone a beggar

I simply pointed out what this particular union may have to do as a result of its leadership's failure to properly strategize.

[Kingofalldems]

61. You should reread your post.

Hillary would disavow that crap. She's a Democrat.

[Freddie Stubbs]

63. Some Democrats aren't afraid to play hardball

[merrily]

88. Depend on one's definition of "Democrat" and "hardball."

[merrily]

84. +1

Glad to stand with you on this!

[Kingofalldems]

93. Thanks, Bernie has some great ideas re the USPS.

[merrily]

94. Someone needs to have them. As we sometimes say in Massachusetts, they're getting scrod.

[LiberalArkie]

37. Results

On Thu Nov 12, 2015, 08:47 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

I'm sure that Clinton will remember this when this union comes begging for help
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1257437

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Anti-union and anti Democratic party post. Implication is that unions just 'beg'.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Nov 12, 2015, 08:51 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: DUer is entitled to an opinion. Those who disagree should refute it with a reply.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Unions don't beg. We get snubbed by our party all the time. though. At least they're backing a Dem. Count your blessings.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Meh.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The inference here is up to the beholder. I see no violation here. LEAVE IT
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[closeupready]

39. I don't get it. Is Bernie going to appoint her postal commissioner or something?

Or, for that matter, Donald Trump?

[JoeyT]

69. So you think she's petty and vidintictive?

That's not a very nice thing to say about her.

[Freddie Stubbs]

71. No. But a President only has so much political capital.

She may decide to use hers on those to whom she feels a debt of gratitude.

[d_legendary1]

75. That's like saying she owes Wall Street for all that cash

they threw her way. Presidents are supposed to do what is best for the people, not those who did favors for them.

[rhett o rick]

72. I don't think it would make any difference. Killing the USPS is part of the Conservative plan

along with SS and Medicare.

[Ilsa]

76. If she becomes president and treats this union the way

Republicans treat unions, then she'll be trashing all unions and the American public, telling them to rely on fedex or Brown when they live in the boondocks. She'd be telling all workers that their pensions don't mean shit to the oligarchs, and she doesn't give a damn.

Yeah, what a great legacy.

[merrily]

83. Begging? Labor struggling under onerous federal laws should "beg" a Democrat?

[quakerboy]

97. You sure think Clinton is awefully petty, dont you?

One would hope that Clinton, if she is elected president, would have some amount of perspective, rather than just being out to settle scores from the primary.

[A Simple Game]

103. Tell us Freddie, why would a union have to beg anything from a Democrat?

Are you confusing Hillary with a vindictive Republican? Don't be ashamed, lots of people do it.

[AllyCat]

12. Backing a candidate who not only has your back

But the backs of everyone else you know. What a great idea!!

[SmittynMo]

13. Hmmmm

The pendulum is starting to swing the other way.

WTG Bernie.

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. it is???

[SmittynMo]

29. Yep

Give it time, my pretty. Give it time.

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. 90 days???

is that enough for ya?

[SmittynMo]

33. Yep

[VanillaRhapsody]

34. ...

to move up from an 7% chance from a dominating 92% chance???

[SmittynMo]

38. ...

“Until you realize how easily it is for your mind to be manipulated, you remain the puppet of someone else's game.”

[VanillaRhapsody]

42. 90 Days!!!

That's not manipulation....

Good luck making up 86%!!!

[Scootaloo]

101. Funny how those early primaries and caucuses can work, sometimes.

Sec. Clinton, of all people, ought to be aware of that.

90 days is a long time. especially when we're talking politics.

[turbinetree]

14. Feel the Bern................................

Bernie---------------Talks the Talk and he Walks the Walk



Honk----------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

[raouldukelives]

15. K&R nt

[mountain grammy]

17. Postal Workers Back Sanders..

as they should, I frankly wonder about any union that doesn't back Sanders. Bernie is union, always has been. He will put on those walking shoes and walk the picket line. I learned about Bernie, through my union, more than 20 years ago. He wasn't my representative, but as a union member, I felt he did represent me, even more than my Democratic president, or any other Democrat I could vote for at the time.
Union members tend to be more politically aware, and these days convincing non union working people that politics affect their daily lives is hard. Another reason Republicans hate unions.

[yallerdawg]

18. This is called hedging your bet.

While running in the primary, back the sitting Senator.

Plenty of time to endorse 'the other' if the Senator doesn't make it.

Unless you believe Unions are represented by ideological purists with no political acumen or agenda. Postal workers are directly under the control of Congress, as we know. Kind of a unique union.

[Rogue Democrat]

25. Wrong. Post Office are not under purview of Congress

They have been on their own for the last few decades.

If it wasn't for the mandated funding pensions for those who hasn't been born yet, USPS would be in the black. Next year will be the last required payment.

[yallerdawg]

35. Wrong.

Besides the 'money thing' Congress mandates...

The postal workers' union said Sanders has a long history of supporting its workers and pointed to his efforts to keep open post offices and mail-sorting plants in rural communities, oppose slower delivery standards and fight attempts to privatize the mail service.

Oh, and Congress names every Post Office.

And that other little thing:

Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, known as the Postal Clause or the Postal Power, empowers Congress "To establish Post Offices and post Roads".

[merrily]

80. Then someone should have told Congress to stop passing bills for the benefit of private carriers.

H.R. 6407 (109th): Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr6407

Where do you get your info?

[merrily]

85. LOL! Pulled that out of your ear.

[Nitram]

21. Bernie's going postal!

Quick, hide under your desk!

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

65. You just gave the Washington Times their big headline tomorrow.

[Lazy Daisy]

22. WOW

What a great way to start the day. Waking up to this news starts the day with big ol' smile.

[AzDar]

23. Bernie!!

[Gregorian]

32. I was shocked to discover my rural carrier is a huge fan of Bernie Sanders.

I would never have suspected it since he does fit my mental picture of typical rural carriers I've known. Little did I know, he's very much up on economic theory as well.

I think the postal service has seen first hand what our capitalist system is all about: just making money. Screw the people.

[SmittynMo]

40. Bernies idea to put banks in the post offices

Last edited Thu Nov 12, 2015, 11:51 AM - Edit history (1)

was very creative, and is a way to help make the PO stronger, building a stronger economy. I know several PO employees, and they all support Bernie. Funny how no one else came up with this idea. They're all basking in the mounds of money from their SPAC's thinking of the next person I can buy.

[Gregorian]

45. I haven't heard of the post office bank idea. Thanks!

Why would anyone not want Bernie, especially those on this forum? This is a total mystery to me. In all my years on this forum, I thought we werre all on the same wavelength. Not at all. Now I have to wonder why.

Now I'm off to go look at that bank concept.

[SmittynMo]

46. I'm pretty sure it was

quite a while back when he introduced it. Thom Hartmann talks about it all the time. You can catch him most mornings at freespeech.org.

As for the mystery, I too cannot understand it. I talked to a republican last night. He's in our bowling league. He was leaning for Trump, but still had good things to day about Bernie. His big issue was the word socialist. He immediately went to marxism. He too thinks we now have an oligarchy. Typical republican, right? By the end of the night, I had changed his mind completely about Bernie.

It was a tough battle, but I feel I came away a winner.

[Gregorian]

100. Excellent. What an accomplishment.

I wonder if this kind of change in politics will heal the widened gap between dems and repubs. Wild.

[markmyword]

51. Postal Banking

England has had postal banking for years. A little post office would be in a news agents shop or in a small little general store. You could buy stamps, mail packages and do banking.

Not sure if with branch banking if some of these postal branches were closed.

[Babel_17]

41. Great news!

Though "snub" in the headline is a tad too strong imo. And I hope the members were polled before the endorsement was made.

But anyway, this is very welcome news. People aren't lying down and letting the establishment roll over them. I salute them.

Salute!

[heaven05]

44. nope, not my vote

or many others in the APWU. Just because the 'leaders' say they get behind BS, doesn't mean the rank and file will follow lockstep into their BS.

[SmittynMo]

47. You're right

But then 1 out of 200K is fine by me. Ya can't please em all.

[heaven05]

86. It will be more than one

not voting BS and a lot less than 200k will be voting for BS also. Why? Because I know many.

[still_one]

48. and without a doubt, 99% of those postal workers will support and vote for whoever the eventual

Democratic nominee is

Regardless, Congratulations Bernie supporters, it is a great endorsement

[cantbeserious]

52. Excellent News

eom

[EndElectoral]

53. Can't fathom how any Union member would ever support Clinton over Sanders with his union voting rec

[SoapBox]

54. The Entrenched Establishment Club, is going to be in for a BIG surprise

come voting day!

Go Bernie!

Go Berners and American Workers!

[azmom]

60. K&R

[Lunabell]

62. A vote for Bernie

is a vote to return the middle class!

[Darb]

66. They backed Sanders, snubbed everybody else.

Slanted bullshit, but nothing new.

[George II]

67. So if a union endorses another candidate, they're "snubbing" Clinton?

I guess then that these unions "snubbed" Sanders, huh?

AFSCME – American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, representing 1.3 million[485]
AFT – American Federation of Teachers, representing 1.6 million[486]
BAC – International Union of Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers, representing 76,233[487]
IAM – International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, representing 570,423[488]
ILA - International Longshoremen's Association, representing 65,000[489]
IUOE - International Union of Operating Engineers, representing 374,521[490]
IUPAT – International Union of Painters and Allied Trades, representing 103,858[491]
NEA – National Education Association, representing 3 million[492]
OPCMIA – Operative Plasterers' and Cement Masons' International Association, representing 39,000[493]
UA – United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices of the Plumbing, Pipefitting and Sprinkler Fitting Industry of the U.S. and Canada, representing 329,954[494]
UBC – The United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America, representing 520,000[495]
United Union of Roofers, Waterproofers and Allied Workers, representing 22,000[496]

[Earth_First]

68. Actually, they did...

Leadership sold out the rank and file with their endorsements of HRC.

SSDD.

[George II]

70. I love it - when a union endorses Clinton, the "leadership sold out the rank and file", but......

.....when one endorses Sanders it's not?

How does one make that distinction (I asked that of someone else earlier with no reply)?

[d_legendary1]

78. Depends on which Union is being discussed

The NEA rank and file didn't want to endorse Clinton just yet, but the heads decided to give her the Nod anyway. Can't speak for any of the other unions but the NEA is significant due to the amount of people it represents.

[merrily]

79. You make the distinction when rank and file was not consulted and then disagrees publicly

with leadership after the endorsement becomes public.

Surprised you had to ask.

Surely you know implying that not getting a reply on a message board to a specific post means anything is silly.

[George II]

87. When the American Federation of Teachers (1.3 million members)endorsed Clinton, they were berated...

....for not consulting with the "rank and file", yet they had one of the most comprehensive, multi-pronged vetting process. They contacted ONE MILLION members by telephone, conducted a scientific poll and gave EVERY member online access to comment prior to determining who to endorse.

And yet the endorsement was criticized for "not consulting with the rank and file", accompanied with a some "I'm a member and wasn't asked" comments.

The same thing happened with some of the other endorsements from unions.

So, I repeat, it's funny when Clinton is endorsed by a union it's greeted with disdain, skepticism, and complaints. But Sanders gets endorsed and it's "great endorsement", regardless of the process used for the determination.

[merrily]

89. If my post had mentioned any union, your reply might be apt. You asked how one makes a determination

I told you.

Do you disagree with anything my reply actually contained? If so, let's discuss that. If not, perhaps your reply would have been better directed at someone who mentioned one or more specific unions.

[George II]

91. I think you're confused. You didn't answer the question.

Virtually ALL Clinton endorsements here have been met with criticism and comments about "not consulting the rank and file", even when they were. And all Sanders endorsements (not as many, by the way) have been greeted essentially "well done" regardless of how that union came to that endorsement.

It's just the way it's been here.

[merrily]

92. I am not the one who is confused. I did answer your question, just not with

reference to specifics. The general question was "how does one make that distinction (between an endorsement by union leaders that sells out the rank and file and an endorsement that does not sell out the rank and file). That is the question of yours that I answered. The answer is the universal, always the same, regardless of union or candidate or year.

As for how it's been "here." I am not "here." I am one human poster, not a message board or a component of any borg. I am responsible only for what I actually post, not for your perception of the DU zeitgeist nor for any post of any other poster.

Again, if you have a disagreement with anything that my post actually stated about making the distinction about which you inquired, let's discuss that.

If not, either agree or just move on, perhaps addressing your concerns about specific unions to someone who mentioned specific unions and/or candidates. I'll not respond again to anything unrelated to what I actually posted.

[Maineman]

73. Good for you. Wise move in my opinion.

[Ilsa]

77. Bernie has been on the side of postal employees

all along, and has been talking about how the GOP is screwing them for a decade.

[merrily]

81. Not only the GOP. Look into the way the 2006 Act passed each house and

Last edited Thu Nov 12, 2015, 06:54 PM - Edit history (1)

also look into Obama's first term appointments and re-appointments to the Postal Commission--including at first, one more Republican on the Commission than required by law.

The guy who helped ram the 2006 bill through was La Hood (R), whom Obama appointed Secretary of Transportation in January 2009 for some reason I cannot fathom and who ironically just stabbed Obama in the back for not being sufficiently bi partisan.

[merrily]

82. When the rubber has hit the road, people grok what is good for them.

It has hit the road for all members of this union and New Democrats have not helped them.

Solidarity with postal workers.

BTW, the Post Office informed me that the maximum I can gift my diligent, wonderful mail carrier is "maybe a card." So, I write "Happy Holidays" on whatever denomination bill I choose to give him that year and put it into an envelope with no other "card." I recommend this card selection to DUers as well.

[hay rick]

95. NALC (city letter carriers) is currently polling its members on their choice for President.

They sent their questionnaire to all the candidates. None of the Republicans answered their questions. Clinton, Sanders, and O'Malley all gave detailed to 15 questions- 20 pages worth of answers in total. Q&A here: https://www.nalc.org/news/the-postal-record/2015/november-2015/document/11-2015_candidates.pdf.

Of general interest would be the candidates remarks on Social Security starting on page 14 of the linked article. Quotes from answers to question 11E: "Increasing or reducing Social Security benefits (by adopting, for example, a chained Consumer Price Index (CPI) for cost-of-living adjustments (COLAs), or by adjusting the COLA formula to reflect the purchasing patterns of elderly Americans). (Support or Oppose) Explain why."

Clinton: "... I will oppose any plan that tries to close Social Security’s shortfall on the backs of the middle class, whether in terms of middle class tax increases or benefit cuts, accounting gimmicks like a chained CPI, or privatization attempts."

O'Malley: "I support using the Consumer Price Index for the Elderly (CPI-E) instead of the Consumer Price Index for Urban Wage Earners (CPI-W) to determine Social Security’s cost-of-living adjustments. The CPI-E provides a more accurate reflection of the higher cost of living for retirees than the current measure, which focuses on younger workers. Using the CPI-E will ensure that benefits do not erode for future generations of retirees."

Sanders: " Let’s be clear: the chained CPI is not a “minor tweak.” It is a significant benefit cut that will make it harder for permanently disabled veterans and the elderly to feed their families, heat their homes, pay for their prescription drugs, and make ends meet. This misguided proposal must be vigorously opposed."

As a retired member, I get to fill out a prepaid postcard with my choice. They will publish the results. I was a union officer for most of my 30+ year postal career. I am proud of my union and our Democratic presidential candidates.

[LovingA2andMI]

102. K/R!!!!