Militants occupying Oregon wildlife refuge say they won’t leave until US ‘restores’ the Constitution

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Reuters

Militants occupying Oregon wildlife refuge say they won’t leave until US ‘restores’ the Constitution
Reuters
05 Jan 2016 at 10:02 ET

A standoff at a remote U.S. wildlife center in Oregon rolled into a fourth day on Tuesday with self-styled militiamen vowing to press on with the protest against the U.S. government even as local officials told the group to go home.

Saturday’s takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge outside the town of Burns, Oregon, was spurred by the imprisonment of two ranchers for setting fires that spread to federal land.

The occupation marked the latest protest over federal management of public land in the West, long seen by political conservatives in the region as an intrusion on individual freedom and property rights.

Protest leader Ammon Bundy, whose father’s ranch in Nevada was the scene of an armed standoff against federal land managers in 2014, said his group had named itself Citizens for Constitutional Freedom and was defending the Constitution and personal liberty against the federal government.


Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/militants-occupying-oregon-wildlife-refuge-say-they-wont-leave-until-us-restores-the-constitution/

[Human101948]

1. Which Constitution?

They never seem too clear on that.

[itsrobert]

3. They must mean the original constitution without those pesky amendments

You know giving women the right to vote and getting rid of slavery must get to them.

[MurrayDelph]

85. I think they only mean

the 10th Amendment, which they interpret as States can do whatever they want.

And what they want is for all public land to become theirs.

[Joe Bacon]

86. We know what they really want

They want that 3/5 clause reinstated!

[wordpix]

60. the morans should be asked to explain what parts they want "restored"

since the Constitution mandates that federal laws are passed by Congress, and those laws include wildlife protection and the wildlife refuge system.

If you asked these anti-American, anti-federal residents about the Constitution, I'm sure they'd have no clue what it contains.

[FailureToCommunicate]

2. Am I the only one sick of every news report carefully explaining the viewpoint of these armed

nut jobs? If the media left, these wimpy warriors would melt away quickly.

[William Seger]

5. Or actually, NOT explaining it

The Constitution is just rationalization; this is really all about greed. They think they should have the right to convert publicly owned resources into their own private wealth by simply taking it. That's OUR wildlife refuge they want to give to cattle ranchers and loggers.

[jwirr]

7. Exactly.

[glinda]

11. truth

[sarge43]

12. Fine

Then, give the land back to the original owners. They would take better of it.

[William Seger]

18. Native Americans? The original park was "unclaimed government land"

... which was expanded by buying out ranchers.

Whatever the land WAS, it is now an apparently important wildlife refuge, and it belongs to US. If the BLM or Fish & Wildlife or whoever aren't managing the public lands properly, then let's fix the damn problem rather than privatize it.

[sarge43]

23. Sorry. Forgot to include the sarcasm icon. n/t

[2naSalit]

68. Before it was

"unclaimed government land" it was claimed and inhabited by American Indians.

[L. Coyote]

16. There's no right to armed occupation of public property. Time to read the Constitution, morans.

I agree, the altruistic, high purpose rationalization is propaganda and smokescreen. These guys are an armed gang trying to weasel out of paying their debts to the rest of us.

Sorry, you don't get to steal part of Oregon because you want the rest of us to provide your own little country. Sorry, no Morania, OR, in your future, but we have great prisons. How do people become so delusional? Oh yeah, religion helps give the voices in their heads authority.[center]

[tenderfoot]

20. This.

[muntrv]

49. Don't forget big oil and various mining interests.

[hamsterjill]

47. Yes, thank you for saying that!

If the media wouldn't give them a stage to vent, there would BE no issue! There's nothing happening there because the authorities aren't "cooperating" like the idiots want them to.

[Ed Suspicious]

80. Not too many lawyers in that group I'm thinking.

[Xipe Totec]

4. Oh, my constitutionals!

[drm604]

6. What exactly does that mean?

Can Obama go on TV, wave his hand over the constitution, and say "restored"?

[jberryhill]

40. Yeah, it's a lot like the Turkey pardoning ceremony

[drm604]

43. Got it

Thanks for the explanation.

[jberryhill]

46. Presidenting ain't easy

One slip-up and we will all be pledging oaths to uphold a turkey, and eating parchment for Thanksgiving.

[Buzz Clik]

8. Send snacks!

[Marty McGraw]

66. And something to Deep Fry!

Looks Like they can make do w/o wimin and just pertend some slow dance music coming out of their boombox.

[japple]

84. Looks like they have a brand-spanking-new cast iron dutch oven. I wonder

if it has been seasoned? If not, everything will stick to it.

[Marty McGraw]

87. Good, I hope so

The image came from an earlier guardian post made here. I hope they don't get any ideas about deep frying just anything around them.

[Botany]

9. What part of the Constitution has been voided?

Idiots!

[2naSalit]

29. The part where

they think they have special rights given to them by gawd... ei, the part they have conjured up in one of the two brain cells that functions just enough to keep them breathing.

[Botany]

37. Sadly ever since Obama has been elected people like Ted Cruz, D. Issa, Fox news, and so on ....

.... have been feeding these mouth breathers lies about Obama and the Fed. Goverment's
unconstitutional actions and these idiots are too stupid to know that they are being used
and lied to for political reasons.

Good God in Butter! President Obama went to Columbia, Harvard Law, and then taught
Constitutional Law @ the U. of Chicago.


2naSalit

[2naSalit]

41. Love that pic!!

I don't like tuna salad, got ptomaine from it once and that was the end of my tuna salad days, but it was the name of my last feline overlord whom I miss dearly.

[SwankyXomb]

50. All they really want

is the Scary Black Man out of "their" White House.

[2naSalit]

61. Oh, they want a whole lot more than that. nt

[wordpix]

67. Constitutional experts, these people are not.

They want to take over federal lands that belong to all. That is it. Period. These are the people who steal the stocks, bonds and jewelry when mama dies so the rest of the family gets nothing.

[Daemonaquila]

10. Cool.

It should only take a week or so before they're starving, then they'll either die of cold or eat each other while they sit and wait. Gene pool improved dramatically.

[mercuryblues]

13. the Bundy

brand of religion believes the constitution to be inspired by God. Ammon Bundy has said that God is not pleased with what was happening in Oregon, so they are answering his call.
The Bundamentalist also believe that the federal government needs to be abolished, IRS, BLM, sell off all state and federal public lands (parks, reserves, sanctuaries, Eliminate the laws separating church and state. No unions, discrimination laws and definitely no minimum wage.

Their stand offs have nothing to do with anything else other than to force their religious beliefs onto the rest of us. I'm guessing Quenn Ann approves. Why are the Rmoney's not denouncing them? Where is Beck? Why isn't he labeling them as religious terrorists? Where are the rest of the Mormons claiming that Bundy and friends do not represent their entire religion? By their silence they are condoning and agreeing with the Bundamentalists

[niyad]

25. stealing "bundamentalist"

[L. Coyote]

14. I'm calling them Morans, not militants. They call themselves a militia, but they are a cowpoke gang

Putting on a costume and dressing like a cowboy does not make you a militant. Using a gun to steal property makes you a criminal. Can we call them criminals yet? Maybe wait for the conviction, so I'm quite happy with just calling them Morans for now.

[wordpix]

69. they're a self-styled militia but not a "well regulated" one

Calling yourself a rose when you're really a POS is the same

[Kablooie]

15. Obviously, the constitution says to give them everything they want.

Once the government does this the constitution will be restored.

[cstanleytech]

17. Yup, all this bluster is just BS in order to justify their breaking the law.

[William Seger]

38. Yeah, they love the Constitution

... except for what it actually says and the whole theory of democratic government behind it.

[DFW]

19. They're in luck!

The constitution is intact!

Of course, it was that beforehand, too, so they could have saved themselves some trouble............

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

21. "Restored", like an old painting?

Maybe we can have the constitution restored by the "artist" who did this one:

[2naSalit]

30. Ahhhhh!

Excellent!!

[yellowcanine]

45. Or this one by Mr. Bean .....

[RKP5637]

77. Yep! That was a great episode!!!

[SoapBox]

22. Stupid fucks...jail their worthless asses.

And bill them for this crap...I want my money back for the trouble they are causing and costing!

[2naSalit]

31. And bill them for the cost of jailing their

sorry asses too!

[KingCharlemagne]

57. Not sure that last is constiutional, as emotionally gratifying as it

may be. OTOH, I do seem to remember having read somewhere recently that some of the more odious for-profit prison schemes here involve charges to the detainees or inmates for the costs of their incarceration.

It's an interesting question and conjures up visions of Dickensian 'debtors' prisons'.

[2naSalit]

59. It does. And I

suspect you are correct about the debtor's prison aspect. Perhaps they should lose their citizenship... something akin to what France has proposed for dual citizens who promote or engage in acts of terror against the state.

Whatever it is, they need to suffer the consequences of their actions and inciting aggression against the government within other gangs of miscreants.

[KingCharlemagne]

62. Just so we're clear: I favor trying them in s court of law before a jury of their

peers for seditious conspiracy and other related charges. I only pause at the notion of charging them for the costs of their incarceration (while still acknowledging the emotional gratification for doing so).

[2naSalit]

65. Agreed.

I was going for the emotive value in making life more like that of the real oppressed in our society... but I digress at that point.

I have been observing the Bundy issue for decades, was a case in my polisci classes back in 90s. I live in the general region so I'm familiar with some of the militants in the area, some I would be really concerned about, the rest are home preppers with big mouths.

[KingCharlemagne]

73. I keep searching for the appropriate historical analogue but not even Shay's Rebellion seems

to meet the bill, because at least Shay was acting at the behest of some local civilians, IIRC. Likewise, Fort Sumter doesn't seem appropriate either since, much as I despise P.G.T. Beauregard, the frères Buindy make Beauregard look like von Clausewitz. Maybe John Brown's raid on the federal arsenal at Harper's Ferry, since Brown hoped his raid would inspire a general slave uprising in the Shenandoah Valley. But, as harebrained as Brown's scheme now seems, next to Bundy Brown comes off looking like Marshall Zhukov.

Maybe the Feds could repurpose the compound as a new facility to house the criminally insane?

[-none]

79. Now there's an idea!

Maybe the Feds could repurpose the compound as a new facility to house the criminally insane?

Maybe install a 10 foot high, double fence, around the place, topped with razor wire. Forget putting any gates in the fences.

[wordpix]

71. paying for incarceration vs. cost of arson damage

They will not have to pay for their incarceration---no one does---but they certainly should pay for any damage the arsonists and supporters cause to federal lands. That includes this standoff---no doubt the wildlife refuge is losing thousand$ per day in lost entrance fees.

[KingCharlemagne]

74. Totatlly agree with you that the relevant schedule of fines and fees should apply, following

due process of law. No ex post facto law nor bills of attainder.

I had read that the facility is closed to the public in the winter months, so not sure it is losing money from lost entrance fees. But I readily take your larger point.

[niyad]

24. have any of them actually read the constitution? are they even capable of understanding it?

[wordpix]

70. probably no and definitely no

[bullwinkle428]

26. OR, until they're out of Cheesy-Poofs - whichever comes first!

[2naSalit]

44. I saw that in the thread with

comments in response to the plea for socks and "gear" and I laughed so hard!

Cheezy poofs don't fill you up until you eat a few bags of them...

[arcane1]

27. Must be nice to merely "go home" after, at minimum, breaking and entering n/t

[TipTok]

28. Uh huh...

[workinclasszero]

32. Well Bundy's daddy said "the blacks" were happier as slaves

So i'm sure they would like to roll back to the constitution that allowed slavery at least!

[Calista241]

33. What is this pie in the sky crap?

Nothing is more effective than holding something for ransom based on abstract ideas.

[randome]

34. "Attention! We have restored the Constitution! Please leave the facility quietly!"

[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[turbinetree]

35. I think they should ..............................

have one roll of toilet paper sent to them, with the words written on each section you are a traitor with Article III Section 3 stamped on each section of the roll, just to remind them of what they really are "TRAITORS", and what the Constitution says for starters






Honk---------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

[0rganism]

36. i do have to wonder, how will they accommodate the incoming bird watchers?

perhaps -- and this is just a wild hare -- the gov't could offer them jobs doing off-season trail & facilities maintenance?
"Well, gee, we're really bummed about the whole restoring your constitution thingy, but since you're going to be up there for a while and you're threatening the regular employees, could we ask you to do some cleanup around the visitor center? Also, there's a shipment of new calendars due to hit the gift shoppe tomorrow, can you get those onto the shelves? Thanks guys."

[starroute]

42. The birders have their own ideas on that

(It may take a couple of tries to get the link to work -- I suspect their server is overloaded.)

http://www.breakingburgh.com/enraged-birders-to-retake-oregon-wildlife-refuge-in-dawn-offensive/

Enraged Birders To Retake Oregon Wildlife Refuge In Dawn Offensive

The armed militants who have occupied the Oregon wildlife refuge may be encouraged the apparent lack of response by government authorities. But their stand is reportedly doomed anyway, since they picked the worst possible location to make their point, according to a source at the American Birding Association.

“The Malheur sanctuary is home to approximately 320 avian species beloved by birders. BIG mistake.”

The nearby town of Burns has seen a rapid influx of birders who are determined to eject the illegal occupiers. The birders possess a number of advantages when it comes to combat in open terrain, according to those familiar with the hobby.

“They are masters of disguise who know how to blend into the outdoor environment, whereas the enemy, with their pickups, massive guns, and loud obnoxious personalities, tend to stick out like a sore thumb.”

[dobleremolque]

78. There. Much needed edit.

“They are masters of disguise who know how to blend into the outdoor environment, whereas the enemy, with their pickups, massive guns, and loud obnoxious personalities, <<and beer bellies>>, tend to stick out like a sore thumb.”

[csziggy]

51. Bird watchers can be loaded and literally ready for bear!

My husband's great grandfather who was a noted bird watcher (he co-wrote The Birds of Minnesota published in 1932) carried a Marble Arms Game Getter: "The upper barrel was chambered for .22 short, long and long rifle. The under barrel, a smooth bored .44, could handle shot or ball."

He used the 22 for taking birds for anatomical samples and could take a bear (though no family stories indicated he ever did) with the 44.

Quoted on the website: "From Customers: Twenty four flying ducks out a 25 shots, deer at 50 to 100 yards (one 220 pound buck’s neck broken at 130 yards), Bear and moose killed at 50 yards, all from a 12 inch barrel. (The unlucky moose quickly became the company’s famous symbol)." http://www.marblearms.com/game-getter-gun.html

Too bad the gun is now illegal except as a disabled collector's item. The barrel is too long for a hand gun and too short for a rifle. from what I have been told.

[jmowreader]

54. The government SHOULD offer them jobs washing pots in the Terre Haute federal pen

[starroute]

39. "Restoring the Constitution" is one of those libertarian buzzwords

It seems to come from this 2003 book, which argues on the basis of a combination of originalism and "natural rights" that the courts have unconstitutionally chipped away at individual freedoms. But clearly in the minds of these yahoos, "restoring the Constitution" is something that could be done with the stroke of a pen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoring_the_Lost_Constitution
http://www.amazon.com/Restoring-Lost-Constitution-Presumption-Liberty/dp/0691159734

The U.S. Constitution found in school textbooks and under glass in Washington is not the one enforced today by the Supreme Court. In Restoring the Lost Constitution, Randy Barnett argues that since the nation's founding, but especially since the 1930s, the courts have been cutting holes in the original Constitution and its amendments to eliminate the parts that protect liberty from the power of government. From the Commerce Clause, to the Necessary and Proper Clause, to the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, to the Privileges or Immunities Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, the Supreme Court has rendered each of these provisions toothless. In the process, the written Constitution has been lost.

Barnett establishes the original meaning of these lost clauses and offers a practical way to restore them to their central role in constraining government: adopting a "presumption of liberty" to give the benefit of the doubt to citizens when laws restrict their rightful exercises of liberty. He also provides a new, realistic and philosophically rigorous theory of constitutional legitimacy that justifies both interpreting the Constitution according to its original meaning and, where that meaning is vague or open-ended, construing it so as to better protect the rights retained by the people.

[2naSalit]

48. ^^THIS^^!!

[fredamae]

52. Speaking of Libertarian/Public Lands And Bullsh!t

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/03/11/1698221/state-efforts-to-reclaim-our-public-lands-traced-to-alec/

[starroute]

83. I wonder if gun-nut supreme Larry Pratt was behind the ALEC connection

There are deep ties between the gun nuts, the "wise use" folks, and the white supremacists. I hadn't thought of ALEC as one of the links, but perhaps it is.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/04/20/468146/fringe-gun-rights-advocate-with-ties-to-white-supremacists-helped-build-up-alec/

As the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) works to distance itself from the NRA-bill it backed as a “model” adopted in dozens of states, it may be hoping that people will not continue to dig into the damage done by its long love affair with gun groups, like the gun-industry funded NRA and fringe groups with ties to white supremacists like Gun Owners of America (GOA).

GOA’s Executive Director is Larry Pratt. In the early 1980s, Pratt and the GOA were outspoken supporters of the white rulers in South Africa during apartheid, calling a press conference in 1984 to present “evidence” that allegedly tied Bishop Desmond Tutu to an effort to violently overthrow the white minority regime in the country. In 1990, Pratt wrote a book titled “Armed People Victorious” based on his study of death squads in Guatemala and the Philippines, and advocated for similar “citizen defense patrols” in the United States. The idea reportedly caught on in 1992, when Pratt addressed a three-day meeting of neo-Nazis and Christian Adherents organized by white supremacist Pete Peters. He shared the stage with a former Ku Klux Klan leader and an Aryan Nation official.

Pratt also held leadership roles in ALEC for many years. His relationship with ALEC began in 1978, when ALEC began an effort to oppose a constitutional amendment giving the District of Columbia full voting rights in Congress. When Pratt was elected to the Virginia State Legislature in 1981, he took a leadership position in ALEC. He sat on ALEC’s board even after he left the legislature, serving as its treasurer into the 1990s.

[csziggy]

53. They ignore that the courts were established by the Constitution

So the decisions are part of the processes which fall under the auspices of it even when we (or they) don't agree with them. They can't pick and chose what parts of the Constitution to consider legitimate or ignore the amendments they find objectionable. They have to accept the entire thing or work through the mechanisms set out in it to make the changes they wish.

I've disagreed with quite a few of the SCOTUS decisions, particularly when they appointed a president without waiting to see what the choice of the people was or when they overrode the Congress on election funding. But I did not take up arms to "restore" the governing of this country to some arbitrary point that satisfies my views.

[wordpix]

72. so let's go back to the Old West "liberty" of raiding, killing and kangaroo courts

Reading a lot of history of the Apache tribes lately. The Apaches were not necessarily a warlike people but life was hard in the arid Southwest without the pumped water, gas heat and motorized vehicles of today. When the Mexicans and later the whites would establish themselves in the most well watered, well timbered valleys with their cattle, displacing wildlife on which the Apaches depended and the native people themselves, they raided. And vice versa. There were as many Mexican and white depredations on the Apaches as the latter caused, if not more.

[Beowulf42]

55. What?

What is there about the way the Constitution is being interpreted that these idiots want to change? The Constitution is a document that was designed to adapt to changes in life's circumstances. Every poll take of public opinion demonstrates that our political leaders lag behind the feelings and hopes of the public. They are just poor losers who have fallen behind the national movement to a more progressive future, and they are throwing a temper tantrum worthy of a hundred spoiled babies. The majority doesn't want the nation these people hope for.

[Ivan Kaputski]

56. Turn off the power and block the roads ...and cut off their welfare checks.

[underpants]

58. Where were these dumasses from '01-09 when W&Co was wiping their ass with it?

[sakabatou]

63. Didn't you know there was a mass coma for Teapublicans?

[red dog 1]

64. These are the type of people who like to shoot wolves from helicopters

[jmowreader]

75. I can explain this, but I wish I didn't have to

There are two ways to approach the Constitution, in regards to what the document allows the government to do.

Sane people believe the Constitution allows the government to do anything the Constitution doesn't forbid. The Framers were smart enough to realize they couldn't think of everything and the world would change over time, so they made a list of a very few things they DIDN'T want the government to do, most of which were designed to prevent the abuses of the English court system, and left it to future generations to create a peaceful and just world.

INsane people believe the Constitution only allows the government to do exactly what the Constitution explicitly says it can. In this case, the government is not explicitly authorized to own land (Article IV, Section 3 alludes to it, but that's not good enough for sovereign citizens - if the Constitution does not SPECIFICALLY say the government can own land, the government cannot own land.) They also believe most, if not all, of the amendments are illegal.

In essence, "restore the Constitution" means eradicating the entire federal and all the state governments.

[muntrv]

76. ...Or until they run out of Red Bull.

[Rafale]

81. from Atlantic Monthly

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/oregon-mandatory-minimums/422433/?utm_source=SFFB

[Turbineguy]

82. Well.....

it would have to include the 2nd Amendment, that's for sure.