Armed group occupying refuge clash with environmentalists

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Armed group occupying refuge clash with environmentalists

Updated 5:33 pm, Saturday, January 16, 2016

BURNS, Ore. (AP) — The armed activists occupying a national wildlife refuge in southeastern Oregon clashed with environmentalists Saturday as a standoff stretched into a 15th day.

A shouting match erupted as members of the Center for Biological Diversity, a national nonprofit conservation group, tried to speak at a news briefing, The Oregonian reported (http://goo.gl/yHnphm ). As the center's executive director Kieran Suckling began speaking, the armed activists screamed and booed him.

"We're here to speak up for public land, which belongs to the public," Suckling said over the yelling. "These people are trying to take the land away."

. . .

The shouting match happened just after occupiers arrived for the briefing carrying a basket of security cameras they said they had removed at the request of residents, the newspaper reported.



Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/science/article/Armed-group-occupying-refuge-clash-with-6764213.php

[Marty McGraw]

1. Used to donate

to CBD before my annual take home took a dive. But their standing up like this really merits digging deeper.

I am in need of a new frog sticker anyway...

Thank you for the Post!

[L. Coyote]

2. Meet the Ragtag Coalition of Birders and Grannies Taking on Ammon Bundy

Idiots stole the cameras from the power substation. They are used to remotely view the substation. The IP number is not the FBI, it is a network IP for the power company.
[center]
Meet the Ragtag Coalition of Birders and Grannies Taking on Ammon Bundy

#Oregonstandoff

kennyjacobs ?@kennyjacobs 18 minutes ago
#Tarpman Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/militant-says-foster-children-were-pulled-from-his-home-lavoy-finicum-burns-oregon/

CW Wade ?@CWWades 24 minutes ago
Seriously, how long do we let these jackals terrorize that community? #bundymilita #Oregonstandoff All hat no cattle


Happening now: Bundy breaking down fence on refuge #BundyTeaParty

[JEB]

5. Thanks for the links. Bookmarking. nt

[Judi Lynn]

14. Thank you! n/t

[daleanime]

26. Love the last one....

and the fact that it is probably a direct quote.

[passiveporcupine]

3. Seriously? Residents asked them to take down the cameras?

On their video I heard that a resident told them the cameras were there, but I don't think they said they were asked to take them down. They were just warned about being watched (which is not even why the cameras are up there, unless they are trying to vandalize the substation).

Now PGE will have to pay to fix the cameras and anything that was damaged. This should be considered vandalism and they should be arrested for it.

Plus the militants were out on county roads, with "stolen" trucks and gear from the Refuge, and they filmed it. After one of them was arrested in Burns for driving a Refuge vehicle to town.

I would love to be a fly on the wall inside the "camp" at night when they are all sitting around sharing their jollies about how things are going.

[dobleremolque]

8. If there's any justice,

they'll vandalize the power substation to the point where they cut off the electricity to the refuge buildings themselves, rather than have the authorities do it. A consummation devoutly to be wished what with sub-zero weather and all...

[passiveporcupine]

9. If it only affected the substation,

but it would also affect a few ranches out there.

[Person 2713]

4. Security cameras ? Wtf?

[passiveporcupine]

6. And there was a protest in Bend

[JDPriestly]

16. Malheur Bird Refuge Why is Malheur Wildlife Refuge such a special place for birders?

http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g52029-d107663-i99830170-Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge-Princeton_Oregon.html



47 photos of the wildlife at Malheur Wildlife Refuge at that website.

"Perhaps the most celebrated of all birder destinations in the Northwest. Birders might well see a hundred species of birds at Malheur from August through November."

Specially noted for certain Ibis as I understand it from an Oregon birder.

This location is a national wildlife refuge for a reason. How sad that a bunch of right-wingers with little sense have taken it upon themselves to disrupt the wildlife there.

What a shame!

[OldRedneck]

7. I'll probably be banned from DU -- or this comment will be deleted -- but WTF??

It's long past time the FBI blew these sonsabitches away.

I understand the desire to "avoid another Waco" and "avoid another Ruby Ridge."

However, let me ask a question: Outside a few gunnuts, militia, and sovereign citizens, WHO THE FUCK EVEN REMEMBERS WACO OR RUBY RIDGE????????

The longer the feds continue to allow this bullshit to go on, the more of this sort of horseshit we will see. The decent people in the area want these assholes OUT. People who use the refuge want them OUT. But, who do the feds listen to?? Obviously they aren't listening to the normal, decent taxpayers. Instead, they are cowering in front of a bunch of thugs.

Every one of the "Bundy militia" needs to come out feet first in a body bag.

I know my rant will do no good but, godammit, this shit has got to stop!!!!

The feds did nothing when these sonsabitches got federal officers in their rifle sights at the Bundy ranch and now this. This is only the beginning.

I live near a pristine near-wilderness in rural Virginia that's popular with birders, fly fishermen, and hikers. We have a few loons in our area who worship what is going on in Oregon. I've talked with a few of my hunting buddies and we have decided, if the same thing happens here, we'll give the feds 48 hours to end it then we'll end it.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

10. You won't be banned. I don't think we should shoot them (but part of me wants to).

I'd definitely like to make their lives a frozen hell. Kill the generator (we can do this about 10 different ways). Kill the electricity. Jam the cell tower in that area. And then knock a big hole in the roof and use firefighting planes to drop a few thousand gallons of cold water on the bastards. I'd make them beg to be arrested before I took them in.

[passiveporcupine]

11. I dnn't believe using violence to end this is the right answer

And if you take the law in your own hands in your area, you will be as guilty as the militants who are provoking you. We don't need more vigilantes. These guys are vigilantes.

I hope you think about this. You would not be helping the situation. You might kill or injure a few of them (you might even be killed yourself), but all that will do is make martyrs of them and create more of a backlash, and bring more of these creeps out of the woodwork.

The feds are handling it right. I think there will be arrests after this, because of some of the things these guys are doing. I sure hope so. But let's handle this in the courts, not in a blood bath.

I know this movement is growing and it may reach a point where they try to use force/violence to get their way. At that point, the feds won't have any choice but to step in and take them out.

Don't encourage violence. Not unless they are doing violence, and they are not...yet!

Also, consider how the people in the town feel with this happening in their back yard. I would not want anything like waco or ruby ridge happening anywhere near my town.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

13. I think they have done enough to be taken in by whatever force is necessary.

Action should be taken before they kill someone and not after.

[Bernin]

17. Nice voice of reason.

Your post is correct and by far the sanest thing on this thread.

I like the idea of civil disobedience. These guys are merely occupying a fed building that is most likely abandoned this time of year.

The feds are actually playing this right so far. These guys are rebels without a cause. If they had the locals. Or, even the family they supposedly are there for behind them. Someone, might listen to them. Instead, some generous soul sent them a bag of dicks.

In the mean time they are learning that they are not prepared for their war. They didn't even bring enough snacks for a couple of days.
The whole thing is amusing and the feds seem to be spending next to nothing letting these clowns make a laughing stock of themselves.
I still giggle at Y'all Queada. Probably the biggest return I have gotten since being forced to pay for this "war on Terror" which is really a war on my freedom.

I say let the show go on.
At least 'til spring when the birds return. Then bill their estates for the damages. Maybe a few charges here and there too.

[passiveporcupine]

18. It's not quite that simple

The refuge does have employees working there year-round, and may even be open to visitors most of the year, and they are not able to do their jobs now. And the militants are using their equipment, supplies, possibly accessing information they should not have access to.

Still, what is happening is not putting anyone's lives at risk, so the best option for now is to wait for the right time to take action, which may be when they finally leave. Who knows when that will be. But the forest service does have work to do to maintain the refuge even in winter, so I hope it's not too long. And for the people of Burns, I hope this doesn't last too long.

[sinkingfeeling]

20. I'm 67 and I'm going to occupy the local US post office to

protest the tyranny of first class stamps. Bet I'll be either arrested or dead within 24 hours. And it will surely be death if I take down cameras, cut the chain link fence around the mail trucks, and mess with the computers.

Why is authoritarian violence accepted in almost all other situations but not this one?

[roomtomove]

15. Send in an

LRAD. Then they will be deaf as well as dumb.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

21. Alert results

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This post advocates violence, by the FBI.

I have never advocated violence, but have had posts hidden or censured for far less, such as telling someone to crawl into their hole.

It's time for Democraticv Underground to apply rules fairly on all sides, against liberals too, against their own, because many of these people are intolerant, and intolerance is what makes things worse.

I don't expect a jury to rule to hide this post, of course, because you never enforce against your own intolerant zealots, only against those who don't agree with you.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jan 17, 2016, 06:49 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't agree with the post, but the alerter needs to stop wasting people's time with ridiculous alerts
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't think this is serious call for violence-just a cry of frustration! Others who have engaged in protests like this have been treated harshly, even violently, by authorities. Why do these jerks get a free pass? Just because they're white guys with guns.
I live in Oregon and I am heartily sick of these cretins! I'm hoping the authorities are just biding their time and letting them rack up federal charges until they swoop down on them.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: While I understand the poster's frustration, the alerter is absolutely correct
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The post is full of self-righteous bluster, but not too offensive. I might write the same thing, given a few beers. The Alert Comment is sort of whiny, complaining that a jury might not hide. So I vote to not hide.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I was going to hide until I read the alert. You mad, bro?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[L. Coyote]

22. You certainly should be banned (from civil society, LOL). Here's an idea,

come to Oregon and smoke some legal weed. You might mellow out.

One of the things that is legal in Oregon now is to give away weed. Someone needs to head over there with the maximum legal amount and mellow out the gun nuts

[GusBob]

25. I'm with you OldRedneck!!! Eom

[Dustlawyer]

27. There are a lot of ignorant RW and Veterans groups that remember these

incidents who blame the government for the wrong reasons. They don't look behind our government to see who is pulling the strings. Waco is filled with a bunch of RW law enforcement who wanted to kill Koresh and his followers. You couldn't drink or dance in Waco until not too long ago.

Now we have Waco II, the biker shootout. Law Enforcement didn't want them meeting in their town. They assassinated those bikers! Google DonCarlos Waco biker shootout video and watch the guy in the jeans and blue shirt tap his head three times and give the signal for police snipers to open fire! People start running right after he does it, including the man who gave the signal.

These so called "activists" are full of displaced anger because they live in a bubble of propaganda and refuse to entertain any info that doesn't meet with their view of things.

[IronLionZion]

34. A lot of RW militia folks want that

they want to use it as an excuse for something far sinister.

I would rather shut off deliveries, power, heat, water, etc. and arrest them as they come out. They need to go to prison.

[turbinetree]

12. I think the Ammon Bundy's and his criminal father and the right wing ...........................

should understand that they can't defeat this weapon.............................



https://www.rt.com/news/weapon-us-microwave-cannon-363/

[Vinca]

19. So, as they exit the news briefing, why aren't they arrested?

They've taken a federal building, they're damaging the land and they're frightening the occupants of the nearby town. Why are these guys being coddled?

[L. Coyote]

23. They have armed guards, snipers, and who knows what kind of traps the #BundyBunch set up.

Last edited Sun Jan 17, 2016, 11:37 AM - Edit history (1)

Because, the idea is to end this peacefully without lose of life for either the in-patients, outside crazies, or the public and law enforcement.[center]

[Vinca]

30. Well, they arrested the one guy with a stolen government vehicle and no one was shot.

If they're in town, leaving a meeting in a public building, there's no reason to let them go back to continue their destruction of the nature preserve.

[L. Coyote]

32. I'm sure if the indictments are ready and the larger case wrapped up nicely

the round-up will happen when least expected.

Who knows where this conspiracy leads, but Oregon Republicans were involved.
I wonder if this political stunt goes as high as say, Bush and Cheney? Or just Rove?
Or, are these serious Mormon separatists trying to carve out an extremist cowliphate?

[center]

[Martak Sarno]

24. Screwed up priorities coming?

What are the odds the protesting environmentalists will be arrested and hauled away (but not the illegal occupying gun nuts) for causing a disturbance or interfering with the "rights" of the gun nuts?

Somehow it wouldn't surprise me the way this is being (mis)handled by whomever pretends to be in charge. Are you listening Feds?
Is this the kind of protection from domestic terror we Americans can expect from our governmental leaders?

And if these gun wackos are so gung ho to fight for what they claim is THEIR America, why don't they volunteer to go over to the Middle East and take on those who they denigrate? Now that would be worth watching. Truck loads of Depends, anyone?

[StoneCarver]

28. Seriously

Isn't it obvious that the Feds are just watching and waiting for a reason? This could be the biggest mouse trap for these nuts ever. I'd do the same thing myself. Sit back and take names and numbers. This is the best way to put ID's on some of our own home grown terrorists. Every one of these people and their supporters will be on a "no fly list" permanently -because you know who they are. Then they'll be prosecuted one at a time.
The wheels of justice grind slowly but exceedingly fine.
Stonecarver

[kimbutgar]

29. Identify them and cut off their government disability checks

If they are healthy enough to be there they are healthy enough to work. Take away the disability checks from these government moochers.

[MH1]

31. You make an excellent point, I just hope you are correct.

Let's just say my confidence in the feds is not as high as yours appears to be.

But I hope you are right in this case.

[L. Coyote]

33. Exactly, and the broader conspiracy charges can include the #BundyRanch crimes.

There is a room full of the finest lawyers and prosecutors USG can hire working this no doubt.
Let them do their jobs, and if you don't like it, get into politics or go to law school yourself, I say.
We don't need 1,000 online quarterbacks to arrest dipwads in this country.
The last Patriot standoff put everyone in jail without a shot fired.

[center]

[pasto76]

35. you know, if 500 LEOs descended, on foot, with pistols (only) holstered and film crews

they could take these fools without incident. Just like blowing up the Federal Building in OK was a knockout punch to militia groups, so would these clowns murdering an LEO with a family.

[L. Coyote]

36. And if they opened up with their automatic rifles and snipers, finally igniting the war they want

then the dead would be our heroes, right?

The last Patriot standoff lasted 81 days, everyone convicted and in prison, no shots fired.

OPB says this is one of the terrorists:
Oregon State Police @ORStatePolice
Icy roads cause early morning crash near Hwy 20 in #harneycounty. Driver uninjured. #thinktraction in winter driving

[L. Coyote]

37. On the Firing Line: Bullies in Stetsons

Good article.

On the Firing Line: Bullies in Stetsons
by Jeffrey St. Clair - James Ridgeway January 15, 2016

Scanning the Sunday New York Times during the summer of 1990, President George Herbert Walker Bush read how an Idaho rancher had threatened to slit the throat of Forest Service ranger Don Oman, who had decided to reduce the number of cattle grazing on several allotments in the Twin Falls District of the Sawtooth National Forest. Bush ordered a Justice Department investigation. A White House aide called Oman and said the president wanted the ranger to know he wouldn’t tolerate harassment of federal workers. ......

.....The heightened animosity toward the federal government in the West stemmed, in part, from the increasingly powerful property-rights movement, sometimes generically referred to as the “Wise Use” movement, consisting of a commingling of corporations, small businesses and landowners who argued that businesses should be compensated for any reductions in the commercial uses of public lands caused by the enforcement of environmental regulations.

On the further fringe of the property rights fight resides a much smaller but vocal group of people who think that the federal system of public lands (national forests and grasslands, national parks and wildlife refuges and BLM lands) are a constitutional fraud and rightly belong to the states and counties. These people tend to view federal workers who oversee public land policy as trespassers on their property. ...........

bit.ly/1OnXPz9 #OregonUnderAttack

[Tess49]

38. I encourage all of you to go to the Bundy Ranch facebook page and post -- tell these

morons to get lost. You'll most likely be banned -- I was. Depending on how you word it, your post may or may not be deleted. Guess they didn't like the fact that I made fun of them. I can't post anymore.