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Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:11 AM Jan 2016

Gov. Snyder lied: Flint water switch was not about money, records show

Source: motor city muckraker

The Flint water crisis that led to thousands of people being poisoned began because state officials maintained it would save the cash-strapped city money by disconnecting from the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department (DWSD) and using a different source.

But it turns out, DWSD offered the state-controlled city a deal that would have saved Flint more money by staying with Detroit.

An e-mail obtained by Motor City Muckraker shows the deal would have saved the city $800 million over 30 years, which was 20% more inexpensive than switching to the Karegnondi Water Authority.

(snip)

So what was it about? Some have suggested that Snyder was motivated by a desire to break up DWSD and ultimately privatize it. In the summer of 2015, DWSD was split into two entities: the DWSD and the Great Lakes Water Authority.

Read more: http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2016/01/23/gov-snyder-lied-flint-water-switch-was-not-about-money-records-show/



Simply disgusting is all I can say. Democrats have to use this horrible story to take back elected office all over this country.
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Gov. Snyder lied: Flint water switch was not about money, records show (Original Post) Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 OP
verrrrry interesting - nt Locrian Jan 2016 #1
kicking for the mendacity of it all. . . .n/t annabanana Jan 2016 #2
And on saving money, when the problem us corrected we can see Thinkingabout Jan 2016 #3
Democrats need to operate more like Republicans. jalan48 Jan 2016 #4
I would phrase it more like this - operate more like an effective & robust opposition party - which Kashkakat v.2.0 Jan 2016 #7
Yes. The Republican's are able to take routine things and blow them out of proportion. jalan48 Jan 2016 #10
yes, this is bigger than republicans NJCher Jan 2016 #17
they won't. They agree with one GOP principle: yurbud Jan 2016 #20
If the Democrats don't use this issue to win, they are not even trying Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #25
Well they never do seem that interested in attacks LiberalLovinLug Jan 2016 #99
I agree with everything you wrote! Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #100
Three words... Grins Jan 2016 #38
DWS is already late in this. Too busy..... MaeScott Jan 2016 #44
if a dem gov had done this, he would be arrested questionseverything Jan 2016 #59
Let us never operate like Republicans. Other than that, I agree with making a big deal about this. trillion Jan 2016 #64
republicans have 1200 think tank coordinated radio stations certainot Jan 2016 #74
Not to mention ut oh Jan 2016 #110
The only problem with this is... Kalidurga Jan 2016 #76
An even bigger reason to make it a major issue. jalan48 Jan 2016 #82
I know Kalidurga Jan 2016 #83
Good question. jalan48 Jan 2016 #84
Well I do think Obama should use his podium for this issue. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #85
I hope they do. Unfortunately, the corporate media can choose not to focus on it unless jalan48 Jan 2016 #86
Yeah well it's not like we can expect MSM to cover anything that would benefit people. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #88
He cannot even arouse himself to suppress a pissant KingCharlemagne Jan 2016 #115
Since I sent a letter to Snyder expressing my horror about Flint, mountain grammy Jan 2016 #5
Awesome of you Marty McGraw Jan 2016 #41
In Your Next Email...... left on green only Jan 2016 #105
The shock doctrine, create a crisis, then impose your own solution. alfredo Jan 2016 #6
YESSSSSSSSSSS - thats it in a nushell nm Kashkakat v.2.0 Jan 2016 #8
That is what the Conservative Governors surrounding the Great Lakes want. They glinda Jan 2016 #60
Is there a benefit in owning the Mississippi headwaters? alfredo Jan 2016 #72
Well if you pollute from top to bottom and mine, log, etc.... all along the way. glinda Jan 2016 #93
It seems like it is a responsibility that is thrust on the state. alfredo Jan 2016 #95
Yep Solly Mack Jan 2016 #69
Bingo! Octafish Jan 2016 #9
I've been saying it for years, Octafish navarth Jan 2016 #46
Abso-pure-lutely, navarth. Octafish Jan 2016 #52
This reporter... navarth Jan 2016 #56
jesus f'n christ on captain's wafer -- "she was shown the door a few days after" nashville_brook Jan 2016 #57
Just when we thought energy scarcity was an ugly fight ... DirkGently Jan 2016 #67
THAT I can certainly believe.... It's every GOPers wet dream to privatize all infrastructure groundloop Jan 2016 #11
A desire to break them up and privatize them? abelenkpe Jan 2016 #12
"But don't democrats champion charter schools?" TBF Jan 2016 #16
True abelenkpe Jan 2016 #55
I think there have been times TBF Jan 2016 #112
OK, but they dmn well better support the idea of maintaining public services and infrastructure - Kashkakat v.2.0 Jan 2016 #18
The plot thickens. FailureToCommunicate Jan 2016 #13
Wow he was willing to murder and maim for his ideology flamingdem Jan 2016 #14
Michigan hasn't enough Democrats in office to do anything; AG is GOP and wants to succeed Snyder Proserpina Jan 2016 #33
Sounds like corruption of various kinds at work flamingdem Jan 2016 #34
Same reason the Fossil Fuel and Mining Industry do it. glinda Jan 2016 #62
who writes this shit "20% more inexpensive"? why not "20% less expensive" Demonaut Jan 2016 #15
privatization rarely has to do with saving money... yurbud Jan 2016 #19
the corrupt madness of conservatism Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #24
unfortunately, most Dems don't aim their stake at the heart of the beast yurbud Jan 2016 #36
OF COURSE it was about Privatization! Proserpina Jan 2016 #21
seems obvious now, but I never really connected it before Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #22
I do live in Michigan, you are correct. The news wasn't obvious, but the actions were. Proserpina Jan 2016 #32
power games oldandhappy Jan 2016 #23
Dems need to ABOLISH privatization at all levels of government johnfunk Jan 2016 #26
If one rich kid was poisoned by lead by a house builder, what would lawsuit net? lostnfound Jan 2016 #27
Hang the bastards that did this. nt valerief Jan 2016 #28
It is still about the money... 2naSalit Jan 2016 #29
Didn't he suspend democracy in order to do this? yellerpup Jan 2016 #30
K&R. Such cruelty. Poisoning people less important to Gov Snyder than Privatization. Overseas Jan 2016 #31
I heard a Detroit area reporter on NPR blaming Obama! robbob Jan 2016 #35
michigan radio dot org has tons of info - and yes there was some dragging of feet by EPA but at Kashkakat v.2.0 Jan 2016 #39
Goes along with Marty McGraw Jan 2016 #43
Ten deaths directly attributed to the water so far Proserpina Jan 2016 #61
Thanks for the info robbob Jan 2016 #117
THE OUTRAGE HAS to come from "we the people" - always has been that way, always will. The civil Kashkakat v.2.0 Jan 2016 #37
The Emergency Manager is saying he played no role in the water switch. it was the rladdi Jan 2016 #40
Republican governor Rick Snyder is solely to blame. jimmyzvoice Jan 2016 #42
yep-- the whole thing was so insanely un-democratic all the way around Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #47
You are totally correct, Snyder is totally at fault, needs to go to jail... Stuart G Jan 2016 #49
dear jimmyzvoice annabanana Jan 2016 #50
this is why his emails and communications hopemountain Jan 2016 #90
K&R vkkv Jan 2016 #45
Yes...that is it, I hope that goes to court...privatize the water!!! great post. nt Stuart G Jan 2016 #48
So, it's worse that "saving money"...It's about making money.... blackspade Jan 2016 #51
"Democrats have to use this horrible story... chapdrum Jan 2016 #53
Mass Murder Was Committed In Flint, Michigan cer7711 Jan 2016 #54
"disposable in the name of privatization." This is the core of running gov't like a business. suffragette Jan 2016 #58
I'm not surprised. Republican Gov. Rich Snyder has done other stuff like this, including an assault trillion Jan 2016 #63
All for the Kochs I imagine since they are by there.... glinda Jan 2016 #65
As I understand it from a friend in Michigan, Lindsay Jan 2016 #78
Yes. That family also.....but they are all surrounding the Lakes. glinda Jan 2016 #92
indeed-- and that scandal is almost as bad and has yet to hit the public consciousness Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #77
I wondered mercuryblues Jan 2016 #66
Union busting.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #68
Which also was not about money so much as it was about clearing away Kashkakat v.2.0 Jan 2016 #81
I see Republicans as complete and total idiots.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #89
well yah, that too - both/and Kashkakat v.2.0 Jan 2016 #113
I'd call these guys economic terrorists, but they don't care that they create terror yurbud Jan 2016 #70
Terrorists Yes billhicks76 Jan 2016 #75
Arrest, charge, try, convict, jail Snyder. nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2016 #71
Criminal. zentrum Jan 2016 #73
This is what results from vulture capitalism emsimon33 Jan 2016 #79
i have read past documents going back to 2010 from the city council and also the rladdi Jan 2016 #80
then, it WAS about money hopemountain Jan 2016 #87
Snyder wanted to ride his management prowess into the Senate, and then the White House Proserpina Jan 2016 #91
The country needs to hear about the results of the GOP led march to privatization.... zwyziec Jan 2016 #94
I agree leanforward Jan 2016 #98
Privatization scares the shit out of me. airplaneman Jan 2016 #96
I agree leanforward Jan 2016 #101
Of course it was about privatization. sulphurdunn Jan 2016 #97
I agree leanforward Jan 2016 #102
Were Snyder an honorable man sulphurdunn Jan 2016 #103
Ideological capitalism should be feared at least as much as command economy socialism HereSince1628 Jan 2016 #116
I'll sign any recall petitions that come my way. N/t roamer65 Jan 2016 #104
Hmmmm (nt) ghostsinthemachine Jan 2016 #106
So not save the town money but make himself a money deal? Person 2713 Jan 2016 #107
make an example out of him reddread Jan 2016 #108
k&r! nt steve2470 Jan 2016 #109
Wow! k&r nt bananas Jan 2016 #111
I very much hope that Snyder and the republicans involved U of M Dem Jan 2016 #114

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
3. And on saving money, when the problem us corrected we can see
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:15 AM
Jan 2016

Just how much money was not saved and I am not even talking about the physical and emotional damage, this decision will be costly. This is a law Snyder should rush to repeal the "management" law.

jalan48

(13,751 posts)
4. Democrats need to operate more like Republicans.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:22 AM
Jan 2016

Blow this issue wide open. Obama should be using the Federal Government to conduct highly publicized investigations. This scandal should be as big or bigger than anything ISIS is doing right now. Keep it on the front page of every newspaper. Arrest some government officials. It's what a Republican administration would do. It would be an issue that they would use to win the next election.

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
7. I would phrase it more like this - operate more like an effective & robust opposition party - which
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:42 AM
Jan 2016

is a GOOD THING. The idea of a two or multi party system is that you get the checks and balances. Otherwise you get single party govt which has NEVER worked well on the face of he planet - eg USSR, North Korea, etc. Corruption is inevitable.... as we are now seeing.

So yah - scream it from the rooftops, get in the face of every repub you can and make them squirm as they try to justify their failed extremist ideology. But no need to resort to any of the lies and distortion of fact the repubs do.

I get your point though! Just taking it and elaborating on it.


jalan48

(13,751 posts)
10. Yes. The Republican's are able to take routine things and blow them out of proportion.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:05 AM
Jan 2016

FOX News especially, and the rest of the corporate media mold public opinion this way. Flint is a really, really big issue. It's happened because of malfeasance on the part of a Republican governor. Issue an arrest warrant for him. Blow the mother fucking story up so big it can't be ignored by the media. Acting in a "judicious" way only allows it to be buried.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
20. they won't. They agree with one GOP principle:
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:57 AM
Jan 2016

No crime FOR the rich is big enough to prosecute, and no crime AGAINST the rich is small enough to overlook.

You can take that to the bank.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,137 posts)
99. Well they never do seem that interested in attacks
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:10 PM
Jan 2016

Even justified attacks. Its all very puzzling. There have been numerous scandals through the decades they have simply allowed Fox News and their peers cover it for 2 seconds and move on. They come off as "above it all", like somehow the American public will admire them more if they just stay silent and don't muck their hands. Hardly shedding the liberal elite stamp.

If I was more conspiratist, I'd think they purposely do not want to let the Repubs sink so deep that it will force them into the majority in all 3 branches and then their darn base will start to demand they act more like traditional Democrats, and less like the Repubs they have been catering together with to Big Business. The DLC needs a strong Repub sounding board in order to pull any new legislation further to the right.

questionseverything

(9,628 posts)
59. if a dem gov had done this, he would be arrested
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 02:02 PM
Jan 2016

but even under a democratic pres repubs literally get away with murder

 

trillion

(1,859 posts)
64. Let us never operate like Republicans. Other than that, I agree with making a big deal about this.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 02:26 PM
Jan 2016
 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
74. republicans have 1200 think tank coordinated radio stations
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 04:45 PM
Jan 2016

worth over 4BIL$ in free pro republican advertising every year.

Michigan St. 11, Michigan 7, Western Michigan 1 universities endorse/support 19 limbaugh stations in that state and they will leading the way in excusing and protecting snyder.

imagine if those radio stations were all screaming for snyder's head. if he was a democrat they would be and he would have to resign. instead, as in all other cases like this they will successfully help deflect blame to the EPA and unions, and lower level govt management etc.

if michiganders want to end that shit, protest, petition, and pressure those universities to find apolitical alts for sports and force a debate about the unis supporting snyder, global warming deniers, racists, misogynists, and their support for trump etc..

there are more than 90 unis supporting 260+ limbaugh stations. the rw radio monopoly depends heavily on piggybacking that cred and advertising draw and would probably fall apart if they didn't have it

ut oh

(860 posts)
110. Not to mention
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 05:20 AM
Jan 2016

all of the article (paid?) commentators who are trying to blame Dems for this problem.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
76. The only problem with this is...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 05:21 PM
Jan 2016

It is an actual real scandal. Real people have been hurt. Many of them will never recover. Republicans try to only pick issues where there isn't a real issue, someone cries War on Christmas or they got their feelings hurt and they make it a federal case.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
83. I know
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 06:04 PM
Jan 2016

sadly we are learning that Democrats aren't always up to the fight for the people. At least Cher has come out and helped. Michael Moore has rightly called for the arrest of the governor, Bernie as well. Clinton sent an aid, I missed what O'Malley said I am sure he has spoken about this as well. But, where is everyone else?

jalan48

(13,751 posts)
84. Good question.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 06:10 PM
Jan 2016

40 years ago Democrats would have been all over this. For some reason Obama is timid when it comes to confronting Republicans. He seems to want to "find common ground" which is very strange considering how they have treated him.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
85. Well I do think Obama should use his podium for this issue.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 06:16 PM
Jan 2016

But, just as maybe more importantly Michigan Democrats should be raising hell. A whole lotta hell. I lived in Michigan until I was 19 years old and I know that the people in Michigan know how to fight.

jalan48

(13,751 posts)
86. I hope they do. Unfortunately, the corporate media can choose not to focus on it unless
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 06:23 PM
Jan 2016

it's the President making it an issue. It becomes a widely covered regional issue and not a national one.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
88. Yeah well it's not like we can expect MSM to cover anything that would benefit people.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 06:25 PM
Jan 2016

At least Rachel Maddow made this a national issue.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
115. He cannot even arouse himself to suppress a pissant
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 09:03 AM
Jan 2016

insurrection in Oregon. So I think you are expecting a bit much.

mountain grammy

(26,459 posts)
5. Since I sent a letter to Snyder expressing my horror about Flint,
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:27 AM
Jan 2016

I've been receiving regular email updates from the governor's office. All is well, people, the governor is on top of it.. NOT! I answer every email with a question about criminal indictments. I will answer yesterday's with this link.

Marty McGraw

(1,024 posts)
41. Awesome of you
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 12:21 PM
Jan 2016

for doing that. I hope the future indictments will go all the way up the chain and invade the ranks of ALEC who notoriously came up with all these grand schemes at a local level to twist privatization away from the public domain!

left on green only

(1,484 posts)
105. In Your Next Email......
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:15 PM
Jan 2016

Will you please ask him for me where he got the shower cap that he glues on to the top of his head? Is it possible that he and Trump use the services of the same taxidermist?

glinda

(14,807 posts)
60. That is what the Conservative Governors surrounding the Great Lakes want. They
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 02:18 PM
Jan 2016

want to OWN THEM! They are also angry that Mark Dayton D-MN was elected and fought hard against him. He is the one that has held that possibility are a slower pace.
IT has been out there for a long time that the Corporate Conservatives want to own the waters.
I have absolutely positively no doubt that if they look into pollutions and spills in waterways they will find a similar motive.
It is time to tie it all together and bring charges to many.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
52. Abso-pure-lutely, navarth.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 01:31 PM
Jan 2016

Snyder's EM-driven, bankster-benefiting Detroit Bankruptcy would set the table for a complete looting, from the Department of Water and Sewerage to the VanGoghs in the Detroit Institute of Arts.

Remember the power shutdown downtown one busy summer weekday?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023669148

The move was a message from the EM, that he would not tolerate dissent.

I asked some reporter chums at one of the Detroit dailies why they had not covered the story. The reporters said they, too, had heard the reports, but added the EM had told them nothing to worry about. (From the link above: It was just an old cable that blew.)

Another reporter who had followed the real story for local public radio was about to air it when she was shown the door a few days after. Reporters who find evidence for conspiracy that leads to the government have that happen a lot.

navarth

(5,927 posts)
56. This reporter...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 01:38 PM
Jan 2016

was she with WDET then?

Perhaps the biggest question, for me, is what the MDP is going to do. IMO they have been feckless even going back to the Granholm administration.

What's going to be the result of all this? These are the things that keep me up at night.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
67. Just when we thought energy scarcity was an ugly fight ...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 02:34 PM
Jan 2016

... here comes the fight to control the WATER.

It's the perfect resource to control. No pesky cheap alternatives to get in the way. Everyone has to buy, if they want to live.

Doesn't seem to be any question but that Republicans seized on Detroit as a perfect disaster capitalism opportunity. Grab local control, sell off any assets at firesale rates; then grab the local population by the throat over the very right to stay alive.

Government, run like a business.

abelenkpe

(9,933 posts)
12. A desire to break them up and privatize them?
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:17 AM
Jan 2016

Which was actually more expensive and did serious damage to non wealthy communities?

I'd like to see democratic politicians be outraged by this an demand an end to the misleading scam that is privatization. But don't democrats champion charter schools?
They can get angry about poisoning citizens but don't think they'll attack the idea of privatization.

TBF

(31,870 posts)
16. "But don't democrats champion charter schools?"
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:36 AM
Jan 2016

Third-way "democrats" champion charter schools.

The rest of us know that is just another give-away to the corporate world.

abelenkpe

(9,933 posts)
55. True
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 01:36 PM
Jan 2016

think they'll avoid going so far as to come out against privatization because third way democrats are not against privatization. Wish that all democratic candidates and politicians were against privatization. Was there ever a time when democrats were against privatization?

TBF

(31,870 posts)
112. I think there have been times
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 08:45 AM
Jan 2016

in which the thievery wasn't quite so blatant. But yes you make a good point.

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
18. OK, but they dmn well better support the idea of maintaining public services and infrastructure -
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:46 AM
Jan 2016

all the things that don't work so well under a for-profit system.

flamingdem

(39,294 posts)
14. Wow he was willing to murder and maim for his ideology
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:25 AM
Jan 2016

That needs to be yelled from the rooftops. Why is he still in office?

 

Proserpina

(2,352 posts)
33. Michigan hasn't enough Democrats in office to do anything; AG is GOP and wants to succeed Snyder
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:39 AM
Jan 2016

and as for Obama....our best bet is the FBI, probably. The EPA is also corrupt in Michigan.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
19. privatization rarely has to do with saving money...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:55 AM
Jan 2016

it's more about making sure that tax dollars go to a for-profit business that can say thank you with campaign contributions.

The community college where I work fired the unionized cafeteria workers and had no food service for five years even though it had been turning a profit.

Apparently, they couldn't bring in contractors for some number of years because of the union busting angle, but now we just have some food trucks.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
36. unfortunately, most Dems don't aim their stake at the heart of the beast
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 12:00 PM
Jan 2016

and instead try to figure out how to get some of that action for themselves.

 

Proserpina

(2,352 posts)
21. OF COURSE it was about Privatization!
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:02 AM
Jan 2016

You'd have to be deaf, dumb, blind and stupid to think it wasn't. He wanted to break Detroit into so many pieces it could never be put back together as a functioning political unit. Water was the one asset they had still functioning.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
22. seems obvious now, but I never really connected it before
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:20 AM
Jan 2016

Of course, I don't live in Michigan, so maybe more obvious for those who live there.

johnfunk

(6,113 posts)
26. Dems need to ABOLISH privatization at all levels of government
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:24 AM
Jan 2016

This should be party plank every four years. Let your candidates know.

lostnfound

(16,108 posts)
27. If one rich kid was poisoned by lead by a house builder, what would lawsuit net?
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:25 AM
Jan 2016

Parents would seek compensation for a lifetime of reduced earnings, health problems, etc.
There's no way that these people will be treated fairly. They haven't been, thus far.
My heart goes out to the parents and children of Flint.

2naSalit

(84,958 posts)
29. It is still about the money...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:34 AM
Jan 2016

just a different story about it has taken place. This is why his stolen elections are such a damning indication of where the GOP wants to take this country. We see it repeated over and over again. I warned a group of political players about this back in 2006 and they all thought I was crazy but here we are now. Looking around the country at the state level shows how disengaged so many really are. It's come down to the need for cleaning up one's own house... state and local governing bodies, before the big problems will be resolved. Meanwhile, we have some pretty big messes to deal with from election fraud - voting machines and illegal redistricting to dealing with the ignorant including the wannabe militias to the current cast of deviant clowns running for office this year who are backing the insurrectionists.

Overseas

(12,121 posts)
31. K&R. Such cruelty. Poisoning people less important to Gov Snyder than Privatization.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:35 AM
Jan 2016

Gov Snyder and his team must resign.

robbob

(3,498 posts)
35. I heard a Detroit area reporter on NPR blaming Obama!
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:51 AM
Jan 2016

(I posted this in another thread, never got an answer):

At first I was like "sheesh, yeah let's blame Obama", but then he went on to say Obama's appointed head of the EPA was made aware of lead in the Flint city drinking water almost a year ago and also did nothing about it.

I'm as skeptical as the next guy when it comes to the "blame Obama" crowd, but if this is true is does raise some questions. Anybody got info on this point?

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
39. michigan radio dot org has tons of info - and yes there was some dragging of feet by EPA but at
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 12:13 PM
Jan 2016

the same time do not lose sight of the fact that an earlier EPA report (dated 2011 I believe) specified that anticorrosion agents needed to be used and also other fed water regulations were ignored/overlooked.

Its a both/and - the original situation was unquestionably created by Snyders radical right agenda, AND..... subsequently exacerbated by foot-dragging by EPA. Its not correct though to pin ALL blame on EPA.

Marty McGraw

(1,024 posts)
43. Goes along with
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 12:39 PM
Jan 2016

the Skeletonization of any departments of the governmental category. Funding and Maintaining. It's been the conservatives favorite thing to do especially when it comes to their favorite punch toy the EPA. They just tried passing another gut punch just the other night.

E V I L - F#$ks

robbob

(3,498 posts)
117. Thanks for the info
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 03:03 PM
Jan 2016

It was an honest question and your information will help me to answer those who try to deflect all the blame to the Federal agency.

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
37. THE OUTRAGE HAS to come from "we the people" - always has been that way, always will. The civil
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 12:09 PM
Jan 2016

rights struggles, labor movement, etc. - did those folks sit around complaining to each other "why doesn't the dem party do anything" Well maybe they did, but they did a lot of other stuff too.

CALL/ WRITE OUR REPS AND OUR CANDIDATES!!!!

rladdi

(581 posts)
40. The Emergency Manager is saying he played no role in the water switch. it was the
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 12:19 PM
Jan 2016

mayor and city council who made that decision, Yet neither of them had an power while the EM was in place, nor did the people. It is a complete dictatorship with a emergency manager. Gov. Snyder has used over a dozen of them during his Governorship.

jimmyzvoice

(159 posts)
42. Republican governor Rick Snyder is solely to blame.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 12:37 PM
Jan 2016

How was Gov. Rick Snyder able to poison the residents of Flint, Mich.? It began when in 2012 the state Legislature passed a new emergency manager law. This law allowed the governor to suspend democracy for any city in Michigan by appointing an emergency manager.

The power of this emergency manager supersedes a city's duly elected mayor and city council and he reports directly to the governor. Gov. Snyder promptly appointed emergency managers in several (mostly poor, and mainly black) Michigan cities. An emergency manager was appointed to Flint in July 2013.

In January of 2014 the emergency manager of Flint decided to change the source of Flint's drinking water from Lake Huron to the Flint River "to save money." Residents immediately complained about the taste and clarity of their new water supply. Tests of this new source showed it to be corrosive and in need of treatment with various chemicals.

Although the mayor and city council objected, the water was not treated and the residents were told that everything was safe. General Motors stopped using the new city water in October 2014, stating that it corroded their parts. Nothing was done to correct the problem because the emergency manager, reporting directly to the governor, refused to act.

In January 2015, tests were done to Flint's drinking water, which showed that the corrosive Flint River water was leaching lead from the city's water pipes. By September 2015, blood tests of the children in Flint showed elevated amounts of lead. Lead adversely affects the brain causing irreversible damage and retardation.

The emergency manager, reporting directly to the governor, still refused to act. Snyder still refused to acknowledge that there was a problem.

Suspending democracy and ending local control of government allowed Gov. Snyder to poison the residents of Flint.

annabanana

(52,791 posts)
50. dear jimmyzvoice
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 01:03 PM
Jan 2016

Please re-read the original post carefully

Most of the posters here are fully cognizant of the emergency managers law. The new information is that it wasn't to "save money" that the switch was made. The real reason is much more insidious.

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
90. this is why his emails and communications
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 06:33 PM
Jan 2016

going back 5 years should be subpoenaed. he is to blame and he had support in usurping democracy and the rights of the people of Michigan.

 

chapdrum

(930 posts)
53. "Democrats have to use this horrible story...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 01:32 PM
Jan 2016

to take back elected office all over this country."

Yes, they'll get right on that.

First though, the corporate media will ask Hillary what she would do with this information.

cer7711

(502 posts)
54. Mass Murder Was Committed In Flint, Michigan
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 01:34 PM
Jan 2016

In slow motion.

EVERYONE involved in this tale of a an entire city's populace being poisoned for profit (or other DWSD-busting motives) should go to jail.

Why isn't this the lead story on every corporate news network? (That was a rhetorical question, folks.)

suffragette

(12,232 posts)
58. "disposable in the name of privatization." This is the core of running gov't like a business.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 02:02 PM
Jan 2016

From shutting off water to create a crisis to shunting the source without regard to its poisonous result.

http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/end-game-of-shutting-off-resident-water-is-likely-privatization-attempt/18777-end-game-of-shutting-off-resident-water-is-likely-privatization-attempt

There are those, however, who see profit flowing through the water system of DWSD, and if a family cannot afford water, under the logic of profit, it makes sense to cut them loose; they are disposable in the name of privatization.

From the beginning, declaring Detroit bankrupt was an effort by Gov. Snyder, a venture capitalist, and the Michigan legislature to sell city property and agencies off to the highest bidder, if they could get away with it.

 

trillion

(1,859 posts)
63. I'm not surprised. Republican Gov. Rich Snyder has done other stuff like this, including an assault
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 02:23 PM
Jan 2016

on the public schools he's severely underfunded and he is trying to dismantle.

It's all to break it up so businesses can come in and take it over.

Lindsay

(3,276 posts)
78. As I understand it from a friend in Michigan,
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 05:37 PM
Jan 2016

it's the DeVos family (owners of Amway) who are Michigan's version of the Kochs. (Erik Prince, who founded Blackwater Security, infamous during the Bush-Cheney regime, is also related to the DeVos family. A son-in-law, I think.)

mercuryblues

(14,406 posts)
66. I wondered
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 02:33 PM
Jan 2016

since I read an article a few days ago that brought up this point.

Detroit is also under a city manager. Wouldn't it have been better to keep Flint on Detroit water until the Karegnondi pipeline was finished? It would have given Detroit needed revenue. It also would have been cheaper to stay with Detroit.

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
81. Which also was not about money so much as it was about clearing away
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 05:51 PM
Jan 2016

legal and logistical obstacles to pillaging of public assets by multinationals. Cant have those pesky contracts with unions standing in the way. You see how all these dots start to connect!

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
89. I see Republicans as complete and total idiots....
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 06:30 PM
Jan 2016

They actually believe they are heroes to the average voter for taking on a union.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
73. Criminal.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 04:15 PM
Jan 2016

Impeachment, jail, a new special election and a complete restaffing from top to bottom should follow this.

An apology and a few resignations won't do it. JAIL.

rladdi

(581 posts)
80. i have read past documents going back to 2010 from the city council and also the
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 05:49 PM
Jan 2016

Emergency Manager's document saying he was taking over t he city and informing Mayor and Council they had no power. The real issue is the EM was a financial guy, only in place to cut expenses. He knew nothing about the intrastructure working of the city. He made the decision to switch water supply without having any clue what he was doing, except thinking he was saving a few millions dollars. But he continues to deny he anything to do with the water switch.

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
87. then, it WAS about money
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 06:25 PM
Jan 2016

snyder was likely in line for either a payout or profit from privatization. his emails / communications going back to at least 5 years should be subpoenaed. also, major donors to his campaign(s). in addition, his corrupt means of ousting the elected flint mayor and other city reps & replacing them with his appointed "environmental" city manager who only answered to him. the cheese is rotten through and through.

 

Proserpina

(2,352 posts)
91. Snyder wanted to ride his management prowess into the Senate, and then the White House
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 06:37 PM
Jan 2016

I think his political future is over now, thank God.

zwyziec

(173 posts)
94. The country needs to hear about the results of the GOP led march to privatization....
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 07:44 PM
Jan 2016

After prisons, libraries, water companies, roads, the medical system, the post office and the VA Health organization.

TAKE THIS COUNTRY BACK.....to the 1930's.

And Jeb! (ashamed of his last name) complimented Synder.

What should be investigated is what finanical kickback Syder walked away with from this privatization deal.

Repukes! Rethugs! Retards! Repugs! All the same. Shameless and without compunction.

airplaneman

(1,230 posts)
96. Privatization scares the shit out of me.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:35 PM
Jan 2016

Before the ACA Wellpoint the largest USA health care supplier was boasting 50% profit. Add the likely 20% administration costs and they were delivering $0.30 per $1.00. Government is as cheap as it gets add privatization you have to add profit and other expenses. Plus private only invests where the money is not where the need is.
-Airplane

leanforward

(1,071 posts)
101. I agree
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:36 PM
Jan 2016

ANY dealings with the government should be limited to 10%. I believe in free enterprise, but what you cited is rape of the taxpayer(s). I hope I've not offended anyone. I likewise believe in secular government. I think I'll expand my definition to a firewall separation of business and government. I'm willing to listen to otherwise.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
97. Of course it was about privatization.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:52 PM
Jan 2016

That's the end game for all public property and institutions with pay to play government there to ensure that the property rights of private wealth are the supreme law of the land.

leanforward

(1,071 posts)
102. I agree
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:45 PM
Jan 2016

and the Governor needs to be given a striped. This thread is probably the most likely action taken by the Governor and one that lined his pocket and for that he needs to be jailed.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
103. Were Snyder an honorable man
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:51 PM
Jan 2016

the Flint tragedy would never have happened. Had it happened anyway and he were an honorable man, he would have fallen on his sword by now.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
116. Ideological capitalism should be feared at least as much as command economy socialism
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 09:19 AM
Jan 2016

Belief that government is the only problem is propaganda for those who see public services have great revenue potential but want to acquire them for pennies on the dollar.

U of M Dem

(154 posts)
114. I very much hope that Snyder and the republicans involved
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 08:53 AM
Jan 2016

will put a very bad republican taste in the mouths of my fellow Michiganders in coming elections. This state needs some progressive minds leading.

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