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jpak

(41,757 posts)
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 10:46 AM Mar 2016

The U.S. just sent a carrier strike group to confront China

Source: Navy Times

The U.S. Navy has dispatched a small armada to the South China Sea.

The carrier John C. Stennis, two destroyers, two cruisers and the 7th Fleet flagship have sailed into the disputed waters in recent days, according to military officials. The carrier strike group is the latest show of force in the tense region, with the U.S. asserting that China is militarizing the region to guard its excessive territorial claims.

Stennis is joined in the region by the cruisers Antietam and Mobile Bay, and the destroyers Chung-Hoon and Stockdale. The command ship Blue Ridge, the floating headquarters of the Japan-based 7th Fleet, is also in the area, en route to a port visit in the Philippines. Stennis deployed from Washington state on Jan. 15.

The Japan-based Antietam, officials said, was conducting a "routine patrol" separate from the Stennis, following up patrols conducted by the destroyer McCambell and the dock landing ship Ashland in late February.

<more>

Read more: http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/03/03/stennis-strike-group-deployed-to-south-china-sea/81270736/

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The U.S. just sent a carrier strike group to confront China (Original Post) jpak Mar 2016 OP
So this is the next target of the American Empire. RoccoR5955 Mar 2016 #1
From what I've seen on BBC World News, Ilsa Mar 2016 #3
If it needs to be stopped RoccoR5955 Mar 2016 #4
US Trade and Commerce, including necessary goods, Ilsa Mar 2016 #7
trade and commerce RoccoR5955 Mar 2016 #10
The majority of trade passes through that body of water, GGJohn Mar 2016 #11
I guess it's no big deal then. And the smaller, poorer nations Ilsa Mar 2016 #12
Why can't the UN address this? RoccoR5955 Mar 2016 #20
Point out to me a time that the UN was able to do christx30 Mar 2016 #22
DRC MisterFred Mar 2016 #34
Five nations have veto power over any UN action. JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2016 #39
Checkmate. Game, Set, and Match. End of Regulation. Pop up fly to end the game. Elmer S. E. Dump Mar 2016 #44
3 Myths about Beijing’s South China Sea ambitions newthinking Mar 2016 #29
The US has been steadily cobbling together a coalition in the Pacific GeoWilliam750 Mar 2016 #37
Exactly...the String of Pearls theory OnlinePoker Mar 2016 #19
Obama probably doesn't want to leave this situation to Trump or Clinton fbc Mar 2016 #6
It would actually be China that starts the war. NutmegYankee Mar 2016 #13
Why the hell is it RoccoR5955 Mar 2016 #21
Who else is going to do it? christx30 Mar 2016 #23
It's the responsibility of any seafaring nation. NutmegYankee Mar 2016 #24
Yep. nt awoke_in_2003 Mar 2016 #31
It's been official policy since the 80's Bradical79 Mar 2016 #25
For you. RelativelyJones Mar 2016 #27
Not true RoccoR5955 Mar 2016 #30
We built that (new) enemy! anothergreenbus Mar 2016 #16
I'm pretty sure it is not, "an other" , should just be "another" , but you new snooper2 Mar 2016 #18
I agree with you Jack Rabbit Mar 2016 #28
Maybe if we send more jobs, training and investment there, they won't bother us... whereisjustice Mar 2016 #2
I still remember when Nixon went to China navarth Mar 2016 #14
Exactly: if this blows up, we've lavishly funded the enemy. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #17
Interesting fact about the "7th Fleet flagship" FBaggins Mar 2016 #5
Correct me if I'm wrong MisterFred Mar 2016 #35
China is the biggest foreign holder of US debt. jalan48 Mar 2016 #8
A sight to behold - a US Navy fleet - asiliveandbreathe Mar 2016 #9
John C. Stennis?? navarth Mar 2016 #15
Probably not, mainly because a warship wouldn't use the civilian designation S.S for "Screw Steamer" NutmegYankee Mar 2016 #26
sorry, wrong initials. my bad navarth Mar 2016 #41
How about USS Corpus Christi JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2016 #40
He is called the "father of the modern Navy" for good reasons hack89 Mar 2016 #43
We are China's biggest customer awoke_in_2003 Mar 2016 #32
Just priming the pump for the great wars of 2017... Stay tuned and prepare accordingly. eom Purveyor Mar 2016 #33
The Chinese have missiles that will sink a carrier in one shot The Wizard Mar 2016 #36
Those missiles would have to get through an impressive anti missile screen, GGJohn Mar 2016 #42
confront them about? yurbud Mar 2016 #38
 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
1. So this is the next target of the American Empire.
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:03 AM
Mar 2016

They are going to start a war with China. I guess China is not capitalist enough for the large corporations, because corporations are people too.
When are we going to learn that we are not the police of the freakin' world.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
3. From what I've seen on BBC World News,
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:10 AM
Mar 2016

China is trying to control several passages through international waters by building islands and bases on them to control international shipping. Maybe it's in the best interest that they be stopped.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
4. If it needs to be stopped
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:12 AM
Mar 2016

Why should the US be stopping it? Is any US territory at stake here? Again, why is the job of the US to be the police of the freakin' world?

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
7. US Trade and Commerce, including necessary goods,
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:15 AM
Mar 2016

might be at stake. It would be nice to get a better explanation of "why," though.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
11. The majority of trade passes through that body of water,
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:29 AM
Mar 2016

China is trying to control the free passage of trade through international waters, which is against international law.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
12. I guess it's no big deal then. And the smaller, poorer nations
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:43 AM
Mar 2016

Looking to exploit their ownership in oil & gas & mineral rights will just have to suck it.

"More than half of the world’s annual merchant fleet tonnage passes through these choke points, and a third of all maritime traffic worldwide. "
...
"Roughly two thirds of South Korea’s energy supplies, nearly 60 percent of Japan’s and Taiwan’s energy supplies, and 80 percent of China’s crude oil imports come through the South China Sea.Whereas in the Persian Gulf only energy is transported, in the South China Sea you have energy, finished goods, and unfinished goods."
...

Yet these specks of land, buffeted by typhoons, are valuable mainly because of the oil and natural gas that might lie nearby in the intricate, folded layers of rock beneath the sea. Brunei claims a southern reef of the Spratly Islands.

"Malaysia claims three islands in the Spratlys. The Philippines claims eight islands in the Spratlys and significant portions of the South China Sea. Vietnam, Taiwan, and China each claims much of the South China Sea, as well as all of the Spratly and Paracel island groups."

Yeah, it may be another fight about energy, but it isn't nothing. I do think we are all owed an explanation of why this is in our best interest.


http://www.businessinsider.com/why-the-south-china-sea-is-so-crucial-2015-2

christx30

(6,241 posts)
22. Point out to me a time that the UN was able to do
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 12:48 PM
Mar 2016

Last edited Sat Mar 5, 2016, 02:17 PM - Edit history (1)

anything beyond send a strongly worded letter. They do it when ISIS is beheading 10's of thousands in Syria and Iraq. They can impose sanctions, but China is a huge country with a very large manufacturing base. They have all the jobs that used to be in the US. They can honestly get along just fine without a lot of trade going on there.
To paraphrase Stalin, “How many divisions does the UN have?”

MisterFred

(525 posts)
34. DRC
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 04:19 PM
Mar 2016

The United Nations did some genuine fighting, successfully, in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Of course, this is a while different matter the UN is not capable of dealing with. But they get some credit (and some not-credit) for work in Africa.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
29. 3 Myths about Beijing’s South China Sea ambitions
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 01:34 PM
Mar 2016

This is a fairly decent article that does a little better job of describing what is going on than the MSM, which is more committed to pleasing the MIC.
Keep in mind China is watching as NATO is moving facilities (likely including Nuclear Weapons) right up to Russia's boundary. It is not illogical to think it better to push for a larger buffer/boundary. Many of the "old rules" have been breached and a lot of this is a result.

I can't vouch for the rest of the site.

3 Myths about Beijing’s South China Sea ambitions

http://globalriskinsights.com/2016/03/3-myths-about-beijings-south-china-sea-ambitions/

China has been accused of stoking regional tensions in the South China Sea. However, China’s grievances in the dispute have often been misinterpreted – for Beijing, the South China Sea is about national security.

Every few weeks China does something in the South China Sea which heightens tensions in the region. In doing so, it tarnishes its international image and damages important relationships it has spent decades fostering. So why does Beijing continue?

In a dispute as complex as the South China Sea, facts and opinions often become blurred. Here are three myths about China which are commonly thrown around:

"China is acting ‘aggressively’"

To understand China’s moves in the South China Sea is to understand its history and perception of its role in the world. Simply labelling Beijing ‘aggressive’ ignores the point and promulgates the dispute.

First and foremost, Beijing views the South China Sea as a national security issue. Historically, China’s inward-looking focus and neglect of the sea ultimately led to the ‘century of humiliation’ when foreign powers forced Beijing’s hand and opened it up to international trade.

Foreign powers established their own judicial systems in major cities under a system of non-reciprocal extraterritoriality – a concept which still evokes discomfort in China. Whenever Beijing attempted to take a stand, foreign powers would pillage cities along the coast and extract further concessions from the government, commonly known as the Opium Wars.

In the Chinese psyche, the century of humiliation began because Beijing was incapable of defending its coastline. Foreign powers arrived in China through the South China Sea and imposed trade at gunpoint, China’s society and system of governance which had prospered for more than 1000 years was overturned in the space of a few decades.

Therefore, China’s artificial island building and massive ramp up of naval activities is about safeguarding what it perceives as its ‘backyard’ to prevent similar situations from happening again. Similarly, controlling trade flows in the South China Sea is Beijing’s insurance policy against economic crippling. After all, if a trade blockade were erected in the South China Sea, China would stand to lose the most.

GeoWilliam750

(2,522 posts)
37. The US has been steadily cobbling together a coalition in the Pacific
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 06:05 PM
Mar 2016

The main parties to the coalition South Korea, Japan, the Philippines, Australia, Singapore, and India. The US is also looking to bring in Indonesia and Malaysia - Thailand has been slipping out of the US orbit due to sanctions on their non-elected government, and continued domestic strife, which is resulting in Thailand having better ties with China lately. This group effectively forms a ring around China, potentially capable of choking off all trade with China, thereby starving it if both raw materials and markets.

China has been forward leaning for some time, and has become increasingly assertive in the region, claiming everything it can, and then backing it with military force. There is no country in Asia that is capable of standing up to China on its own, and even a coalition backed by the United States is barely adequate. For the US to do nothing would be for the US to abandon half of the world's population to the whims of a small cadre in Beijing.

China's assertiveness is now approaching belligerence. Shall the US simply abandon Asia to Xi Jinping? We tried that once 80 years ago, and things did not turn out so well. China has some rather extreme economic and environmental woes, and the party is cracking down hard on dissent in China. As China's domestic problems increase, they are likely to attempt to distract a restive population with conflict - it is the tried and true method of governments everywhere.

OnlinePoker

(5,719 posts)
19. Exactly...the String of Pearls theory
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 12:39 PM
Mar 2016

The String of Pearls theory is a geopolitical theory regarding potential Chinese intentions in the Indian Ocean region.[1] It refers to the network of Chinese military and commercial facilities and relationships along its sea lines of communication, which extend from the Chinese mainland to Port Sudan. The sea lines run through several major maritime choke points such as the Strait of Mandeb, the Strait of Malacca, the Strait of Hormuz and the Lombok Strait, as well as other strategic maritime centers in Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, the Maldives and Somalia. The term as a geopolitical concept was first used in an internal United States Department of Defense report titled "Energy Futures in Asia".[2] The term has never been used by official Chinese government sources, but is often used in the Indian media.[3]

The emergence of the String of Pearls is indicative of China’s growing geopolitical influence through concerted efforts to increase access to ports and airfields, expand and modernize military forces, and foster stronger diplomatic relationships with trading partners.[4] The Chinese government insists that China’s burgeoning naval strategy is entirely peaceful in nature and designed solely for the protection of regional trade interests.[5] An analysis by The Economist also found the Chinese moves to be commercial in nature.[6] Although it has been claimed that China's actions are creating a security dilemma between China and India in the Indian Ocean, this has been questioned by some analysts who point to China's fundamental strategic vulnerabilities.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_of_Pearls_%28Indian_Ocean%29

 

fbc

(1,668 posts)
6. Obama probably doesn't want to leave this situation to Trump or Clinton
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:14 AM
Mar 2016

or then we will definitely have war.

NutmegYankee

(16,199 posts)
13. It would actually be China that starts the war.
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:43 AM
Mar 2016

One of the responsibilities of our Navy is Freedom of Navigation in international waters. The South China sea is international waters. China wants to believe that it can turn this large sea into it's territorial waters. Everybody else says bullshit and sailing ships through that sea is a way of pointing that out. A nation can intercept unauthorized warships in territorial waters, but such an act would be an act of war in international waters.

At some point China will either have to back down or attack our shipping. But the US Navy isn't going to stop protecting Freedom of Navigation.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
23. Who else is going to do it?
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 12:52 PM
Mar 2016

Malaysia? Vietnam? Taiwan? Philippines?

Which of those 4 nations in the South China sea do you think could put out a navy that can rival China and get them to back down?

NutmegYankee

(16,199 posts)
24. It's the responsibility of any seafaring nation.
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 12:59 PM
Mar 2016

If we (and other nations) don't defend the freedom of navigation of international waters, then our merchant shipping can be locked out.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
25. It's been official policy since the 80's
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 01:05 PM
Mar 2016

And it's natural that the U.S primarily fills this role since we have the most powerful navy and probably benefit the most from freedom of navigation. Protecting trade is the primary reason we developed our navy 200 years ago after all.

This past week though, we've proposed a quadrilateral effort between U.S., Japan, India, and Australia.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
30. Not true
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 02:23 PM
Mar 2016

When the do the correct thing, I am proud of it. Unfortunately, lately there has not been much to be proud of.

 

anothergreenbus

(110 posts)
16. We built that (new) enemy!
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:57 AM
Mar 2016

By gutting our economy, opening the floodgates to slave labor products, and shipping our jobs to China.
The oligarchs have lost all credibility and they are only hanging on through lies and coercion. And if you don't like that go to Kos' site where you can be brainwashed into supporting an other corporate sellout.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
18. I'm pretty sure it is not, "an other" , should just be "another" , but you new
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 12:38 PM
Mar 2016

so we cut you slack, for now

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
28. I agree with you
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 01:21 PM
Mar 2016

You can even rant about how if the oligarchs didn't act so selfishly, this would not have happened and so the entire problem is their fault. I would agree with that, too.

You van even rank about this proves that financial and industrial elite are no more capable of making rational decision than we peons and that maybe we could run the world better. I most definitely agree with that.

Meanwhile, we have a messy problem to deal with.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
2. Maybe if we send more jobs, training and investment there, they won't bother us...
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:07 AM
Mar 2016

way to go all you greedy, off-shoring, mother fuckers. China gave us their factory farms, shitty wages, no worker protections, no life.

In return, we gave them a nice military.

Seriously. Fuck you.

navarth

(5,927 posts)
14. I still remember when Nixon went to China
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:51 AM
Mar 2016

...and the next thing you know, jobs are pouring into China and out of America. Was it because he was afraid of war with them? Or did his corporate buddies want it? Did they think converting China to capitalism was a good way to rot them from the inside? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
17. Exactly: if this blows up, we've lavishly funded the enemy.
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 12:06 PM
Mar 2016

And all for the sake of cheaper consumer goods and wealthier oligarchs...

FBaggins

(26,735 posts)
5. Interesting fact about the "7th Fleet flagship"
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:13 AM
Mar 2016

The Blue Ridge is the oldest active duty ship in the Navy (not counting Old Ironsides of course), but is expected to remain in service for at least another couple decades.

MisterFred

(525 posts)
35. Correct me if I'm wrong
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 04:20 PM
Mar 2016

But aren't many otherwise low-priority targets turned into command ships nowadays?

jalan48

(13,864 posts)
8. China is the biggest foreign holder of US debt.
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:22 AM
Mar 2016

So we are going to play bad with them? Looks like we need more money for the Defense Department to me (China will help us pay for it).

asiliveandbreathe

(8,203 posts)
9. A sight to behold - a US Navy fleet -
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:23 AM
Mar 2016

In the open waters or returning from their 6 month deployment...I remember well my son's return to Arlington Jan 2002 - USS Ingraham FFG-61 (now decommissioned) - when you stand on the docks and watch the ships come in, simply magnificent..of course, being his mother, the anticipation was overwhelming...when he entered the Navy his dad met him in Hawaii for the "tiger" cruise back to the states....lots of dads on the ship..

So many stories....so many places visited around the world..The learning experience alone was priceless..when he went into recruiting his mantra was "my rack, or Iraq" -

He retired 2008 after 21 years - ey ey Chief....the rest of the story - today a sixth grade teacher....



navarth

(5,927 posts)
15. John C. Stennis??
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:53 AM
Mar 2016

Wow, so he's got an aircraft carrier named after him. Hmm. As I remember, he was a reedy-voiced little racist twerp from the deep south.

Well, I guess you wouldn't see a warship named the S.S. Mahatma Ghandi.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,339 posts)
40. How about USS Corpus Christi
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 06:25 PM
Mar 2016

(Body of Christ)

The Navy had to do some word-smithing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_City_of_Corpus_Christi_(SSN-705)

The name might have been better for a hospital ship than for an attack nuclear submarine.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
43. He is called the "father of the modern Navy" for good reasons
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 08:48 PM
Mar 2016

Him and Senator Carl Vison ("father of the two ocean Navy" and namesake of USS Carl Vinson laid the foundation of our present navy.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
32. We are China's biggest customer
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 03:43 PM
Mar 2016

And one carrier battle group would decimate their whole navy. They are trying to intimidate the smaller nations in the region. They will back down.

The Wizard

(12,545 posts)
36. The Chinese have missiles that will sink a carrier in one shot
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 04:23 PM
Mar 2016

This is just an exercise to show that we're getting something for all the money the Pentagon wastes.
Given China's ability to sink carriers, what purpose do they serve other than to intimidate nations that don't have the defenses to sink them instantly. And if push comes to shove, they can buy those missiles from China.
Fact is there's no way to justify the size of the navy we have. It's good for chest thumping, but that's about it.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
42. Those missiles would have to get through an impressive anti missile screen,
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 08:16 PM
Mar 2016

it's not that easy to sink a carrier and the size of our fleet is appropriate for the nation.

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