Orlando gay nightclub shooting: 50 killed, suspect is Omar Mateen
Last edited Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:02 PM - Edit history (4)
Source: BBC
Fifty people are now known to have died in a shooting in a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, the city's mayor Buddy Dyer has said.
The gunman, named by officials as Omar Mateen, was killed after taking hostages at the Pulse club.
President Barack Obama said Americans were united in grief, outrage and "resolve to defend our people" after "an act of terror and an act of hate".
The attack is the worst mass shooting in recent US history.
Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36512308
At least 20 people have been killed and at least 42 injured after a shooting at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, police say.
Orlando Police said officers entered the Pulse Club about three hours after the shooting unfolded - and killed the attacker, who had taken hostages.
They called it an act of terrorism, but said they did not yet know if it was domestic or international.
Relatives have been gathering at local hospitals desperate for news.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/36510272?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central
Skittles
(153,298 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)and as a citizen of orlando I find your post offensive. The community has joined together and a massive blood drive is in progress. Sen Nelson just spoke and it seems this person had ties to Islamic terrorism.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Skittles
(153,298 posts)did I say the shooter was from Orlando? As if gun humpers do not travel? And by the way, terrorists ARE gun humpers
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)Shooter shot her three times in the head at point blank range. Her brother tackled him and subdued him, but not before the suspect killed himself. He had driven from another part of Florida to kill her.
villager
(26,001 posts)bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)t
DJ13
(23,671 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)RTs flagship, award-winning English-language channel airs 24/7 from the networks Moscow offices.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)That's how I paid off my mortgage.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
nitpicker
(7,153 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,296 posts)Station to Station
(53 posts)I'm sure Trump is salivating. Let's just hope it's an American refusing to speak English rather than the alternative.
ck4829
(35,096 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Matter of fact I heard the shooter was dead.
IronLionZion
(45,628 posts)when dealing with new DUers with low post counts
Station to Station
(53 posts)I'm not jumping to conclusions, just something I'd heard and has since been expanded on. We shall see; I would be somewhat surprised if it involves more than a lone fanatic.
From the BBC:
"An FBI spokesman said they were investigating whether the attacker was a "lone wolf". He said the attacker appeared to "have leanings towards" radical Islamist ideology but it was not yet clear whether this was a case of domestic or international terrorism."
From Huffington Post:
"When asked if the FBI suspected that the gunman may have an extremist leanings, including a possible sympathy with Islamic State, Ronald Hopper, an assistant FBI agent in charge, said: We do have suggestions that the individual may have leanings toward that particular ideology. But right now we cant say definitively.
ancianita
(36,216 posts)That guy is one of 41 Americans on the "known or suspected terrorists" associated with the war in Syria.
This "lone wolf" bullshit is a PR attempt to lull the country into "nothing to see" sleepwalking.
LiberalArkie
(15,735 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Fuck him!
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)LannyDeVaney
(1,033 posts)IronLionZion
(45,628 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)about the victims not Trump.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Sounds like very little is actually known right now. The police update keeps getting delayed.
As of right now, being reported multiple injuries, no confirmed deaths.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Did also just report that the shooter is dead.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)horrifying evil?
Maybe I'm weird, but "I want to be evil" hasn't ever been on my bucket list.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Really, I can only think of 3 known root causes:
Religious fanaticism/bigoted hatred, mental illness, or extreme desperation combined with easy access to powerful weaponry.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... with unGodly amts of drugs too.
raccoon
(31,131 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)There were calls from ISIS/Taliban for mass attacks during Ramadan.
I still don't understand the motivation for that, but it does appear to be a terrorist attack. Suicide vest and so forth:
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/06/12/orlando-nightclub-horror-shooter-strapped-with-suicide-vest-leaves-mass-casualties-hostages-351438
ellenrr
(3,864 posts)that makes no difference to the dead wounded and their families - but-- domestically, re electoral politics-- it would be bad....
Response to ellenrr (Reply #47)
Post removed
7962
(11,841 posts)Response to Post removed (Reply #49)
Post removed
7962
(11,841 posts)Whoever it was needs to be exposed regardless of their motive.
nitpicker
(7,153 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)icymist
(15,888 posts)It very well could be a code that the lead paramedic stated which would be MCI Level 1. All that means is that the first responders on the scene are overwhelmed and they are calling out for more help. It does not mean fatalities. It means that they have more people injured than what they can provide and are calling for more alarms and a triage set up. I have seen this call at auto wrecks where there are more than two injured.
Delphinus
(11,847 posts)Sure hope it's not as bad as our first thoughts are.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)I feel absolutely sick.
This IS terrorism, no matter who committed it.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)There are hundreds of officers and rescue on scene.
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)as many as 40 injured. Domestic terrorism?
juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)I would think a lot of medical staff are right there helping with the injured.
mnhtnbb
(31,415 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
6chars
(3,967 posts)shooter killed, no other information about the shooter
this is just sickening.
note - my headline matches click headline on internet, article not updated yet
melman
(7,681 posts)Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)Response to 6chars (Reply #29)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Crabby Appleton
(5,231 posts)IronLionZion
(45,628 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)icymist
(15,888 posts)Who would do this? Is it a back lash against the LGBT community drove up from hatred of the attacks on the 'T'? The Trump anger towards anyone who is different?
liberal N proud
(60,352 posts)How many more?
Indydem
(2,642 posts)Then you can start infringing.
Until then, can it.
This guy is an Islamic terrorist with a suicide vest. The gun isn't the problem here.
liberal N proud
(60,352 posts)"This guy is an Islamic terrorist with a suicide vest." You don't know that.
Volaris
(10,278 posts)Islamic or not, radicalized or not, he didn't walk into that building and kill fifty people with A FORK.
Indydem
(2,642 posts)If people have a hell bent on killing other people, they will do it.
Knives. Suicide vests. Commercial airliners. Guns.
The weapon is irrelevant; the culture of hatred driving it is the problem.
Dylan Roof is a prime example of this. Hatred knows no ideological boundaries
with the weapon he had (not knives, not arrows, not tomahawks) could he have killed so many people at once - and guns are not a problem?
Volaris
(10,278 posts)And thats why we made it damn-near impossible for anyone to acquire (highjack) a jetliner.
Indydem
(2,642 posts)It's been all over the news all day long. Care to apologize?
rockfordfile
(8,709 posts)liberal N proud
(60,352 posts)But ________ NO!
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)You should interview one of the dead people.. Oh wait you can't cause their brains are all over the place from a gun that isn't a problem. Repeal the 2nd? It's a shit amendment and should be.
7962
(11,841 posts)yet the attackers there had no trouble getting them. And there have been several other cases as well. how do you get an AK47 on a train?
Terrorists WILL get their guns. They're already out there. Ban them all tomorrow and they'll STILL be out there
Lets repeal the 1st too. Its a "shit amendment" allowing people to say hateful things legally, so why do we need it? We could spare a lot of feelings if we could just regulate speech! Right?
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)It happened in gun humping amurkka. I see the weapon used was the gun humpers phallic symbol of brotherhood, AR 15.
christx30
(6,241 posts)November 13, 2015. Only the death toll was higher, with 130 slaughtered. The bans on weapons didn't seem to slow down the attackers at all. Plus I don't think suicide vests are legal in France.
7962
(11,841 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)say vile things about whatever he wanted. The second assisted him in being a terrorist and commit mass murder. See the difference?
Indydem
(2,642 posts)If you believe that you and your gun grabber buddies have the popular support to repeal the second amendment, THEN DO IT!
Stop running your mouths about your hottest wettest fantasies about restricting the rights of Americans, and repeal the amendment.
You don't have a snowballs chance in hell of doing it, and you know that.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)dickthegrouch
(3,188 posts)I haven't seen anything which says you feel any shame for being part of the problem.
WHEN you have actually done something to curb gun violence, then you'll have a leg to stand on, maybe.
Children who can't place nice get their toys taken away.
It's way past time to take those killing machines away.
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)Until you realize that you don't actually have to do any of those things to purchase a car.
It would make more sense to say that anyone could purchase a gun, but that all, or some, of those things be required to take it out on public property.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)
Post removed
ck4829
(35,096 posts)Rough Google translation
Dr. Faisal Al- Anzi Shaman
Carried out a martyrdom operation in Iraq # # Kirkuk , killing more than 30 soldiers Safavi
# Alnkhuh_aeraekaya
#Pulse
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)Response to Post removed (Reply #35)
SkyDaddy7 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Post removed (Reply #35)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bigdarryl
(13,190 posts)So I'm not understanding why the media is saying this might be terrorism when it comes to Islamic.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,379 posts)Or perhaps the shooter's motive was more personal and complex.
The motive might remain a mystery, since the shooter will be answering no questions.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)You do know Sharia calls for the killing of gays...in fact it happens quite frequently in Iran.
bigdarryl
(13,190 posts)To say terrorism
whathehell
(29,103 posts)Zero racial implications.
Vinca
(50,326 posts)Was the shooter Trump-inspired? It should be interesting to see how this plays out. It's tragic whether it's domestic or international terrorism. We've got to get rid of assault weapons in civilian hands.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,069 posts)6chars
(3,967 posts)if there are any other people involved, this network has to be uprooted.
(and whether or not it was a lone wolf, obviously one more reason to not sell machine guns at Walmart)
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)6chars
(3,967 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)Yet they're obviously available to criminals both there & here
ProudProgressiveNow
(6,129 posts)Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)
Gomez163 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)
7962 This message was self-deleted by its author.
ck4829
(35,096 posts)I'm not saying the two are actually part of the same plot. But it's like what happened with the George Tiller assassination and the Planned Parenthood shooting last year, if this is indeed an Islamic terrorist attack, then that means all three high profile domestic attacks were followed by Islamic terrorist attacks within days of them happening.
We do not get Islamic terrorist attacks regularly.
We do not get domestic terrorist attacks regularly.
We do not get high profile assassinations regularly.
I think we need to start looking at this as a form of simultaneous terror attack.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,476 posts)I'm no fan of militarized police on an everyday basis but the
law enforcement response here is brave and reassuring, and they
needed the capacity they had
These professionals have to be ready to go, even at Sunday, 2 am
Plus all the supporting and rescue personnel
Way to go, guys and gals
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)HoosierCowboy
(561 posts)...if the shooter is either Muslim, Hispanic, or both...
Angel Martin
(942 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,069 posts)Angel Martin
(942 posts)right there in para 2
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pulse-nightclub-shooting-orlando/
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,069 posts)Angel Martin
(942 posts)ck4829
(35,096 posts)Just like only one white male (Of which I am one) decided to also travel to Orlando this weekend and kill a complete stranger (Christina Grimmie) and not entire white male population.
We should focus on the victims not the perpetrator.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,069 posts)Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Which the terrorist, regardless of ideology, was able to get hold of. Will it change America's gun laws? I doubt it.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)If nothing meaningful was done about that, nothing will be done about this either.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)It's a mindset I'll never be able to get my head around.
TimeToEvolve
(303 posts)in fact i had a major argument with a ( now former ) friend about that yesterday, he thinks that it is one big conspiracy; he keeps saying " i saw the christmas trees!!" "the parents were laughing!!" how some have a total lack o critical thinking skills.
studies have shown that belief in CTs is associated with lower intellegence and anti- social behavior.
Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)I'm not sure I get what point your former friend is trying to make by bringing up Christmas trees and laughing parents. From your mention of conspiracy theories, I infer that he believes... what, exactly? That the whole thing was just a lie dreamed up to accomplish... what, exactly?
Seriously, I've never heard anything like that before about Newtown, and my mind just isn't connecting the dots properly. Can you enlighten me as to what he was on about?
TimeToEvolve
(303 posts)the christmas trees:
trees debunked:
parents:
debunked:
Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)Now my brainmeats hurt. They hurt so very badly.
TimeToEvolve
(303 posts)Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)Misery loves company.
7962
(11,841 posts)Its not legal to sell or own them in the entire country, yet the attackers in French attacks have had them.
Criminals always get the weapons
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)No guns used in the 7/7 attacks. The reason they got them in France was because of lax laws in other EU nations and inadequate border control.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)but if illegal immigrants can get into the UK, semi auto rifles certainly can
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)The ringleader of Britains biggest known gun-smuggling operation has been sentenced to 35 years in jail for shipping £100,000 worth of weapons from the same source used in the Charlie Hebdo terror attack.
Harry Shilling bragged we [are] now officially gangsters after 22 assault rifles and nine Skorpion sub-machine guns from eastern Europe sailed up the river Medway from Boulogne in France.
The 26-year-old and Michael Defraine, 30, were found guilty of gun smuggling and possessing firearms with intent to endanger life following a trial at the Old Bailey held amid almost unprecedented security.
Shilling was handed a sentence of 30 years in jail, plus five years on extended licence, while Defraine was given 27 years in jail, plus five years on extended licence.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/03/gun-smuggling-ringleader-harry-shilling-jailed
Angel Martin
(942 posts)is going to deter a suicide terrorist who is going to go on a rampage in a nightclub in Soho ?
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Guns don't play a big part in terrorist offences over here.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)"deterrence" isn't going to get it done
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)People all have different jobs to do. Gun smugglers aren't suicide bombers, horses for courses.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)"On March 6, 2012, French lawmakers passed a law tightening up gun regulation and increasing penalties for illegal ownership. Just five days later, Mohamed Meraha French jihadist of Algerian descentwent on shooting rampage, killing seven people in three separate attacks in around Toulouse before a police sniper shot him dead.
Merahs arsenal included an AK-47, an Uzi, a Sten submachine gun, a shotgun, and several pistolsall illegal. He could only supply himself on the black market or from crime organizations, thats clear, Thierry Coste, a pro-gun lobbyist, told The Christian Science Monitor."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/13/this-is-how-ak-47s-get-to-paris.html
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)The terrorist got his guns from the black market, he didn't smuggle them in himself. And as the law had only been in effect for five days I suspect he got hold of his guns before then.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)he bought his guns illegally on the huge black market for guns in Europe (just like Johnny Jihad in England could and then bring them back to the UK from France).
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)because smuggling guns into Britain is no mean feat, especially if you're a jihadist. If it was as easy as you think they would have been used on 7/7. They weren't.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)What has a water park got to do with gun control?
Angel Martin
(942 posts)mentally disabled, socially inept loner managed to get his hands on a gun and shoot and kill an MP, but you are telling me jihadists won't be able to.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)The difference is someone gets shot in Britain and it makes headlines around the World. Someone gets killed by a gun every day in America and it isn't even reported because it's so commonplace.
Gun control works, it's not 100% effective, but very few thing are.
And it wasn't an assault rifle it was a handgun, most likely from WW2.
7962
(11,841 posts)But you're correct regarding border control, we're constantly arguing about securing our southern border, so there's another problem we have that isnt being addressed
And what has happened when france even mentions tightening their border? The same thing that happens here; instant cries of "intolerance" and other such BS.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)can't realistically be enforced.
7962
(11,841 posts)The genie is already out of the bottle. Sure, if we'd never had any guns here there would be less killing.
But since they're already HERE, changing the law will only make them go underground and insure that the worst elements of society are ALWAYS well armed.
This guy may be attached to any group or none; I think more likely he's got a mental issue. Which brings up a whole different problem
ck4829
(35,096 posts)Full disclosure, as I'm wading into this, guns are not any real focus of mine. But I feel like I have to say this...
Guns are already here; so are immigrants, so are refugees, so are Muslims, and so are the mentally ill. If regulations, controls, and bans can serve to drive guns underground and bring out the worst elements surrounding them, if something was proposed (Which I totally disagree with by the way, does need to be said) for these groups of people and carried out then couldn't the same thing happen with them, driving them underground and bringing out worse elements?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)They've long tried to push a narrative that the West, and America in particular, is anti Islam, all Islam, not just the jihadis. A Trump victory would make that narrative more believable.
ck4829
(35,096 posts)They aren't the guardians of Islam, they fanatically cling to a very nationalistic and fundamentalist version of Sunni Islam. These people don't care, even if you are a Muslim, the second you disagree with them, you become a 'heretic' worthy of death. I think this system will collapse eventually, that Daesh is just another stage before it descends into anarchy before metaphorical and even literal mass suicide. But I think telling them that we are the "Us" and Muslims are the "Them" will keep them going on just a little longer, giving them an enemy they desperately need.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)by turning Iraq into a jihadi stronghold. Trump won't be any different. I hope America does the right thing and keeps Trump out of the Whitehouse.
Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)
onehandle This message was self-deleted by its author.
chernabog
(480 posts)I can't believe this happened in my city, a club I've driven by countless times
My son is in school there.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Create public databases to see how dangerous your neighbors are.
No conflict with the 2nd Amendment there.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)we could copy the gun laws of France.
That will eliminate attacks by fanatics on concerts and clubs... oh, wait
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)"I know! Let's create an on-line database so those who need to steal a large volume of guns don't have to waste time..."
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Freedumb isn't free.
Orrex
(63,263 posts)And if you have so many unsecured firearms that someone can "steal a large volume of guns," then you represent an active danger to society.
Act like a responsible gun owner and act responsibly in the ownership of your guns. The deliberate failure to secure your guns adequately is exclusively your own.
hack89
(39,171 posts)They oppose registration on privacy grounds.
hack89
(39,171 posts)NickB79
(19,297 posts)In other words, liability insurance does not protect against liability resulting from crimes or intentional torts committed by the insured. This is intended to prevent criminals, particularly organised crime, from obtaining liability insurance to cover the costs of defending themselves in criminal actions brought by the state or civil actions brought by their victims. A contrary rule would encourage the commission of crime, and allow insurance companies to indirectly profit from it, by allowing criminals to insure themselves from adverse consequences of their own actions.
It should be noted that crime is not uninsurable per se. In contrast to liability insurance, it is possible to obtain loss insurance to compensate one's losses as the victim of a crime.
If I intentionally drove my car through a group of people and killed them, my automobile insurance would refuse to pay any claims, as they should. So why do you think that a gun insurance policy would act differently?
The only reason to propose insurance on gun ownership is to make it expensive for poor people to own firearms, leaving gun ownership solely to the rich. Not a very progressive stance, I might add.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Pay up, gun culture.
NickB79
(19,297 posts)Universal background checks are a no-brainer. I'd be fine with returning to the 10-round magazine limit we had under the 1994 AWB as well.
But some of the ones you are suggesting are either inapplicable to preventing more gun violence, or just flat-out illegal. Your argument that we completely rework the way liability insurance works would be a godsend for organized crime, and almost certainly opposed by justices on both the left and right.
Good luck getting a judge to accept your claims with an argument of "tough shit, your honor."
Elmergantry
(884 posts)No conflict with rights there, correct?
Orrex
(63,263 posts)What a fucked up, bullshit comparison, and I note that it's suddenly quite popular among gun advocates. Curious. Which Rightwing media outlet spoon-fed that mantra to you?
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,776 posts)Unfuckingbelieveable.
Orrex
(63,263 posts)I've seen it at least three separate times from three separate posters today.
No tactic is too cheap or too exploitative for those who want to remind us that we must first and foremost protect the guns.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)I bet you supported the "USA PATRIOT Act", too.
Orrex
(63,263 posts)It's a requirement that gun owners be held responsible in the ownership of their guns. If they can't be responsible for their guns, then they aren't qualified to own them.
It's "totalitarian" only in a bullshit far-Right Libertarian mindset, and it's amazing that we see so much of that kneejerk pro-gun reaction on DU every time a mass shooting occurs.
Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)In what way is that substantially different from a "poll tax" that must be paid before a person can vote?
Orrex
(63,263 posts)Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)The current interpretation of the Second Amendment is that owning a gun is a right. Voting is also a right. Placing a financial barrier in a citizen's path before they can exercise a right pretty much undermines the entire concept of a right. As another poster rightly pointed out, requiring insurance in order to own a gun would essentially block the poor from being able to own a gun.
I don't own guns and don't care to do so, but what is done to restrict one right could be done to restrict others. I'll say that having emigrated to Canada, it is rather nice not having to wonder at any given moment how many people around me are packing heat, because the answer is "Not very many, if any at all."
But like it or not, this is the way SCOTUS has interpreted the Second Amendment. Until that interpretation changes, any attempt to require gun insurance would be struck down as unconstitutional, and rightly so. So the way forward is either a) elect progressives in order to change the makeup of the SCOTUS and thus change the interpretation, or b) repeal the Second Amendment.
Orrex
(63,263 posts)Since the SCOTUS has already determined that the Constitution permits that certain requirements must be met in order to legally obtain firearms (background checks, licensing, etc.), then it's clear that requiring insurance would likewise be Constitutionally permissible. Further, many jurisdictions already charge for firearm permits, whereas it is illegal to charge for voter registration.
In short, the analogy fails in every way that is meaningful, so the analogy can be abandoned.
Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)Just because SCOTUS has determined that certain requirements must be met in order to legally obtain firearms doesn't mean that they'll allow insurance to be one of those requirements. They might or they might not, but it isn't "clear" that it would be Constitutionally permissible.
Secondly, likening a one-time registration or permit fee to an insurance premium is absurd. The former is, as I noted, a one-time fee. The latter is an ongoing obligation that will rapidly outpace the cost of the registration fee, especially if the premium goes up the more guns one owns, which it probably would. You're equating going to see a movie in the theater one time to paying for a monthly cable subscription.
Lastly, I notice that you didn't address at all the point that if such costly insurance were required to legally own a firearm, it would essentially block the poor from being able to exercise a Constitutional right.
Orrex
(63,263 posts)Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)bigmonkey
(1,798 posts)In the earlier part of the 20th century, sensible regulation of guns was not very controversial, as I recall. The current interpretation ignores the entire contextualization of the intent of the amendment - the reference to "well-regulated militia".
I never noticed this before, strangely, but the 2nd Amendment does not have any language in it about owning a gun. Keep, bear, but no ownership or purchase. Ownership is implied, not explicit.
Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)The only way the current interpretation is going to change is if the SCOTUS has more progressive justices. But under the current interpretation, I don't see many of these suggestions happening, nor do I see it as very likely that the Second Amendment will be repealed or altered.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)would have prevented this tragedy.
allan01
(1,950 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,069 posts)SwankyXomb
(2,030 posts)And the next time. And the next time, ad infinitum.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Marthe48
(17,112 posts)A story like this is news. I get the same sick feeling each time, the same feeling as hearing about the OK. City bombing, the towers, every day that the news has a story of people getting shot and killed, or bombed and killed. The loss of life is atrocious. The effect of sorrow and anger is an unbearable weight, because there is no leadership to discourage individual violence against other individuals. Nobody in power wants to stop this slaughter. When is enough enough?
onehandle
(51,122 posts)brooklynite
(94,950 posts)JudyM
(29,294 posts)TimeToEvolve
(303 posts)this can be seen as the litmus test! the guns/2A sector is totally incapable of self-regulation and responsibility whatsoever, in fact quite the opposite! the whole NRA shit fest acts as a magnet for all sorts of loonies. it should have been reigned in years ago.
ck4829
(35,096 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,204 posts)I was concerned our victory in the culture wars would lead some to terrorism. Because that's what terrorism is: a tactic of the weak.
Why the fuck can't people just let others live as they please? Why the incessant need to control others and make them conform?
csziggy
(34,139 posts)To a reduced level of concern about possible terrorism. He did say it "might" be a hate crime but kind of blew that off.
Shooting ONE HUNDRED people, killing half of them is TERRORISM. If the motive is hatred of a specific category of people, the it is also a HATE CRIME. Those are not mutually exclusive.
For the victims and their families.
Crabby Appleton
(5,231 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Will anything be done now? probably not.
spinbaby
(15,092 posts)When I turned on the TV and saw 50 dead, I thought it must have been a mistake, that there couldn't have been that many dead.
7962
(11,841 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,871 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)And was working as a "security guard"...
Remind you of anyone????
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)But better control of guns would be a great place to start
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)The police, FBI, and ATF need a lot more money and manpower for surveillance of social media and other communications channels. They need more personnel to infiltrate potentially violent anti-government, racist, and Christian organizations. They need to use civil forfeiture of the assets of illegal gun owners.
The more power the police have, the safer we will be.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)WhatSoEver
AC_Mem
(1,979 posts)And I'm terrified, we are here in my room, my 16 year old grandson and I, watching the news. I'm crying... He is gay and we live here in orlando. I'm telling him honey please please promise me you will take care!
My god if anything ever happened to him... My god. Because someone loves who they love, someone thinks they deserve to die???
My heart goes out to each family member who is mourning this morning in orlando. My heart aches for every victim in this tragedy.
Annette in Orlando, safe with Trevor
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Please take care of him. My best to both of you!
romanic
(2,841 posts)This is one of the most tragic attacks on the lgbt community here in the states. I'm just stunned.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)RogerM
(150 posts)Links to ISIS - Radical Islam as per ABC - Licensed to carry gun - US born citizen
yurbud
(39,405 posts)Indydem
(2,642 posts)Let's keep the hyperbole somewhat grounded in something resembling reality.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)Legal Gun ownership
US born citizen
Radical(aka "orthodox" Islam?
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)And have quite a few co-workers that frequent that establishment. I am usually not a worrier but I dread going to work tomorrow to find out someone I know has been hurt or killed.
Just one more episode brought to us by religion.
Beacool
(30,254 posts)I only found out about it when the pastor at church asked us to pray for the victims of the attack. How can someone be filled with so much hatred to drive to another town with the sole intention to kill as many gay people as he could???
Sick world we live in.
May the victims rest in peace. My condolences to their families.
Red Knight
(704 posts)To this senseless violence.
My sympathies to anyone who has lost loved ones. Another sad day in America.
Pathwalker
(6,600 posts)RogerM
(150 posts)Omar Mateen legally purchased a handgun and a long gun within the last few days, ATF Assistant Special Agent in Charge Trevor Velinor told reporters on Sunday.
"He is not a prohibited person," Velinor said.
The FBI interviewed Mateen in 2013 and 2014, FBI Assistant Special Agent in Charge Ronald Hopper said.
"Those interviews turned out to be inconclusive, so there was nothing to keep the investigation going," Hopper said.
Mateen was not under investigation at the time of Sunday's shooting and was not under surveillance.
tenderfoot
(8,438 posts)Blandocyte
(1,231 posts)and a-holes who take advantage of our freedoms to use them against us. Sadness.
AJ.Akia
(38 posts)My heart breaks for the victims and their families ... :'(