Mother kills pregnant daughter in name of 'honour' in Pakistan
Source: Times of India
LAHORE: A mother slit open the throat of her 22-year-old pregnant daughter in Pakistan's Punjab province, the latest in a series of gruesome "honour killing" that have sparked national outrage.
Muqadas, a resident of Butranwali, Gujranwala, some 80 kilometres from Lahore, contracted love marriage with Taufeeq of her locality against the will of her family some three years ago, a police official said.
Superintendent of Police (civil lines) Nadeem Khokhar said that the family of Muqadas was not happy with her as the victim married Taufeeq after eloping with him." Amna, mother of Muqadas, recently contacted her and told her that the family had pardoned her. She invited the couple to her house. However, yesterday when the 8-month pregnant Muqadas was present at a clinic in her locality for a check-up Amna reached there and took her to her house," he said.
Read more: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Mother-kills-pregnant-daughter-in-name-of-honour-in-Pakistan/articleshow/52798087.cms
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)SpankMe
(2,957 posts)Nothing is as fucked up as this. Nothing.
PatSeg
(47,430 posts)but she killed her grandchild as well. I can't even imagine the kind of parent who would do this.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Pakistan again? What a surprise!
PatSeg
(47,430 posts)it is the women who are punished disobeying the family, rarely the men. The daughter's only real crime was being born a female.
Igel
(35,300 posts)Or we're forced to say an 8-month fetus is a child.
People aren't consistent; partial empathy is the problem. (And, no, this isn't a "hobgoblin of a petty mind" because while it's a consistency, it's not a foolish consistency.)
PatSeg
(47,430 posts)three times, actually and at eight months I would say it is a "child". A baby born at eight months almost always can survive outside the womb. But my point was, the woman knew her daughter was carrying her grandchild and killed her anyway.
lark
(23,099 posts)What a sick phuck! OK, another country to add to the list of places I will never go and won't support
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)LIED to her daughter, got her hopes up that her family had forgiven her for the NERVE of marrying her love and then slit her throat. There isn't a word I can think of that's bad enough for what I think of this barely human woman.
niyad
(113,302 posts)cpwm17
(3,829 posts)I wonder if they are reported in Pakistan.
7962
(11,841 posts)niyad
(113,302 posts)not change the facts.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)'don't look here, nothing to see'.
The gun lobby has been doing that for years. With every gun tragedy, they obscure facts and compare to knives. We are seeing the result - gun related massacres that occur too frequently.
Here are some differences - I don't expect a straight answer, but i'll post them for other readers with an open mind:
1. if someone makes a joke about Jesus, do you expect Christians to riot in the street and kill innocent bystanders?
2. If someone steals a loaf of bread in the Vatican, will the law there result in amputations of the thiefs arms?
3. Will someone committing adultery or accused of it with no proof be stoned to death?
4. Will a Christian converting to Hinduism result in a death sentence?
5. Are moderate priests who preach understanding of other religions be killed by other members of their religion
6. Are Christian priests routinely traveling to Churches around the world and preaching hate against homosexuals and saying they should be killed?
7. Can Christian men marry more than one wife at a time (but not Christian women)?
niyad
(113,302 posts)(it hasn't been muslims threatening to kill me for my work for choice, as just one example).
but keep insisting that one is so much worse than the other. the fact remains that the xian fundamentalists in this country worry me far more than the islamic fundamentalists.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)very hard to ensure they are not elected.
why are they trying to kill you?
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)But location matters, and semiliterate medieval tribal shitholes are not likely to be liberal bastions regardless of to which celestial OogaBooga the peasants grovel. Here in the US for example, Muslims are less homophobic than Protestants on the whole, although both groups range from pleasantly benign to theocratically batshit, with obviously far more bigoted members than secular folks have as a percentage.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Money is a powerful motivator. Maybe when they "pardoned" her they thought they would get some money. And when it did not come through they decided to take back their "property."
Igel
(35,300 posts)Honor is social standing.
The US has mixed cultures, and some people will fight and attack if you dishonor them appropriately. That's most of the fights at schools. That's a lot of gang killings. You catch a guy with your girl, you hear somebody disrespect you. It's all honor. When you hear people calling for "respect" and another person from a different subculture just stares blankly, it's because the honor code is different. It's responsible for a lot of ethnic tension. It's one reason that historically murder rates vary by cultural affiliation of the population.
Another view of honor is that it's what you have when you abide by your principles and act with dignity. We had a political skirmish last year. Could a slave have dignity and honor? One side said no, it was insane; honor is what people perceive you as having, and if you're insulted routinely you have no honor. One side side that dignity is abiding by your moral code with equanimity; some Jews heading to their deaths in Auschwitz or some political prisoners in Russian GULags were often described as behaving with dignity and honor and not lowering themselves to the level needed to survive in the camps. Define "dignity" and define "honor" and you get your answer to the question that was brought up by a SCOTUS decision.
Societies have ways of dealing with external dishonor and restoring honor. We don't like them, but they're pretty universal and have been around for thousands of years. They predate Islam. You see it in the Tanach. You see it in cuneiform texts. Honor is personal; it's family; it's clan; it's tribe; it's nation (if there's a difference between that and tribe). For Islam and many Muslim societies, their "nation" is defined in terms of religion; it explains defensiveness and why "Islam" must never be dishonored, and why people kill when Islam is defamed, either by name or by not letting the ummah properly exercise it's God-given role. It's the I/P problem, where the dialog on one side is "rights" and on the other side "humiliation." They aren't equivalent, but many Westerners somehow translate things into their "universal" worldview. External honor requires that any claims of dishonor be denied, right up front: Fessing up is accepting humiliation, and unless it's a humiliation that is inevitable and cannot be withstood, you have to deny it. (If you have no chance of succeeding, to fight and lose is sometimes more humiliating. Hope breeds violence and vengeance.)
For a lot in the US everything is money. Some western subcultures have reduced, atrophied value codes, where instead of 6 or 7 core values there are only 3 or 4, and they're often filtered through $. Religion is money. Honor is money. Social standing is money. Traditions and such are only useful if they produce money. Given a reduced set of values, it's hard to recognize other values or that other values are independent and free-standing. That's a rather important limit for a stunted worldview that really believes it's universal.
One way of restoring honor can be though payment of money. In some cases, it's a ritual sum, to show that the other side has accepted humiliation, and the "deal" is widely publicized to make sure the acceptance of humiliation and restoration of honor is known by all. Sometimes diyah, "blood money," is just a token. Sometimes diyah has to be crushing. Depends on the degree of dishonor. But to have a family member dis her parents in such a severe and public way? Not all dishonor can be redeemed through cash. If the family is wronged by somebody else, $ might work. But in this case, the daughter had to pay to restore her honor. She sinned against her family, to put it in traditional Xian lingo. She didn't repent, she didn't try to find redemption.