Kansas revokes Ann Kristin Neuhaus' medical license over abortion referrals

[proud2BlibKansan]

Source: Pitch Weekly

The latest salvo in the debate over abortion in Kansas is a loud one. Earlier this morning, the Associated Press reported that the Kansas Board of Healing Arts decided to strip Dr. Ann Kristin Neuhaus of her medical license.

Neuhaus, profiled by The Pitch's Justin Kendall back in November, is a Nortonville doctor who provided second opinion mental health exams on patients seeking late-term abortions from the late Dr. George Tiller. Those consultations, between 1999 and 2006, were required under Kansas law, which has since been changed to remove the mental health exception for late term abortions.

Kansas regulators agreed with an administrative judge that Neuhaus had failed to sufficiently examine 11 patients, who were seeking abortions after 22 weeks, in 2003.

Read more: http://www.pitch.com/plog/archives/2012/06/22/kansas-revokes-ann-kristin-neuhaus-medical-license-over-abortion-referrals

[hrmjustin]

1. what is wrong with Kansas? n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Way too much

Someone should write a book.

[RKP5637]

47. Religion!!! n/t

[Odin2005]

48. RoundUp pesticide. Exposure lowers IQs and increases the incidence of ADHD.

[LiberalLoner]

2. Glad I'm not living in Kansas. I fear for the women who are living there.

[EFerrari]

8. This isn't just about KS. They're trying to create a precedent. n/t

[LiberalLoner]

17. True. :(

[shcrane71]

55. Yes they are... and they're succeeding.

It's scary.

[xxqqqzme]

4. And the witch hunt rolls

on across the great plains.



Wish I still had my curse inflicting powers.

[RitchieRich]

5. Were they medically necessary?

...not that it should really matter, but one is less justifiable. It would certainly frame the argument one way or the other.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Some were, yes

Most of the cases the board looked at involved very young girls. The youngest was 9. And if you think giving birth is a safe medical procedure for a 9 year old, then we don't have anything more to talk about.

[MightyOkie]

26. Thanks Doctor.

[DiverDave]

56. The hell does that mean?

So you think it takes a degree to know that a NINE year old is O.K. to give BIRTH to a CHILD???

the fucks wrong with you?

[mbperrin]

9. The law in Kansas required the doctor to ascertain that the woman

was not mentally disturbed, essentially.

Medically necessary means?

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. The law required proof that carrying the baby to term would cause emotional distress or disturbance

But that law has since been revoked.

[wordpix]

30. so IF she's mentally disturbed, then what? She must give the baby up? She must get an abortion?

I don't get it

[yardwork]

43. A medical doctor determined that they were.

[DallasNE]

6. What Exactly Does "sufficiently examine" Mean

In context with the law and why now since this was 9 years ago. Are all of the members of the Kansas Board of Healing Arts mental health doctors capable of even judging the standard in accordance with the then Kansas law. And who did the administrative judge consult regarding the sufficiency of the exams performed by Dr. Neuhaus -- a hand picked doctor or witnesses representing both sides. I presume Dr. Neuhaus will appeal this decision. It sure looks like is was based on politics rather evidence in a court of law.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Dr. Neuhaus provided the second opinion the law required at the time

She had to verify that severe emotional stress/illness would result from giving birth, making the abortion necessary. She used the diagnostic tool recommended in the DSM. (The doctor who wrote that instrument asked to testify but the board denied his request.)

No all members are not doctors. Dr. Neuhaus's lawyers asked the members who are not doctors to recuse themselves but they refused.

The only 'professional' consultant was a woman from D.C. who is anti-choice. She is a professor at Georgetown, not a doctor. The state paid $100,000 for her testimony.

Yes she will appeal.

The complaint which resulted in this hearing was filed by Cheryl Sullinger from Operation Rescue. Cheryl is a convicted domestic terrorist who served time in prison for conspiracy to bomb an abortion clinic. Her phone number was in Scott Roeder's car when he was arrested after murdering Dr. Tiller.

[DallasNE]

23. What Ever Happened To Due Process

I can't see where one thing in this hearing was done properly. It should be a slam dunk for her to get her license back, but in the mean time she cannot practice (I presume). There needs to be consequences to railroading someone in this manner.

[wordpix]

31. oh, now the picture is getting clearer, thanks

[patrice]

10. Without knowing the cases, I don't know whether that's a good thing or not. I do know that it would

NOT be a good thing to abuse Roe v. Wade and the probabilities are that "mental health" could provide some potential to do so.

I know I'm going to get killed here at DU for saying it, but we should not abort healthy late-term fetuses, for anything but to protect the life of the mother. Has anyone ever heard of pre- or post- partum depression? How do we establish the difference between that stuff and other psycho-pathologies?

I don't know how to resolve mental health issues. Perhaps there should be a way to just take such babies away. If mentally ill mothers can't abide that and can't abide birthing the child, then these mothers need to be identified waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay earlier and informed of the consequences of waiting too long to decide to have an abortion. There needs to be more actual life care for babies born to mothers who are too mentally ill to birth them.

I do wonder about anyone who waits that long to decide whether they want to give birth or not. What's wrong with them? Yes there are more external things that affect these decisions that ARE beyond the potential mother's control, also beyond anything to do with her mental health, but all of that, which is situational and which is intrinsic to the person herself, needs to be established way before we arrive at a point that accepts the abortion of healthy late-term babies with relatively healthy mothers.

Just brainstorming here, all. Please don't attack me. All of this is already encoded in Roe v. Wade anyway and, unless you are like some people I have run into around here who think abortion should be legal all of the way up to and including birthing, you accepted most of these premises when you decided to support Roe v. Wade.

Don't bother to attack me. I won't respond. These are my thoughts on the matter, no I don't think they are sufficient to resolution of the questions raised. Just stating a fact: I and a bunch of other people want NOTHING to do with, and will not support, aborting healthy late-term fetuses with healthy mothers. Period.

[jeff47]

12. Why does everyone assume women getting abortions are healthy, 20-30ish, with

lots of financial and emotional support?

This Doctor had to declare that giving birth would emotionally harm a 9-year-old. 9. Not 29, Nine.

I do wonder about anyone who waits that long to decide whether they want to give birth or not. What's wrong with them?

Well, I'm guessing the 9-year-olds take a while to come to grips with what pregnancy means. Heck, they might take a bit to talk with their parents about their pregnancy. Because they're 9.

I and a bunch of other people want NOTHING to do with, and will not support, aborting healthy late-term fetuses with healthy mothers. Period

Hopefully, you'll come to terms with the fact that such women are not seeking abortions. If you find one, you should take a picture. She'll be dining with the Tooth Fairy and Bigfoot.

[patrice]

13. Good points.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. This was a witch hunt.

Kristin didn't break the law. She followed it to the letter. Dr. Tiller didn't break the law. In case you forgot, they tried to get him too, but he was found innocent in a court of law. Then a month later, they murdered him.

When Scott Roeder was arrested for killing Dr. Tiller, he had Cheryl Sullinger's phone number with him. She is a convicted felon who planned a bombing of a clinic. When she got out of prison, she moved to Wichita and got involved with Operation Rescue. Then she filed a formal complaint with the state board of healing arts to have Kristin's medical license revoked. And the board accepted her complaint. From a convicted felon!!!

This isn't about whether abortion is justified or not. Both Dr. Tiller and Dr. Neuhaus followed the law in place at the time. And Dr. Tiller was murdered. Dr. Neuhaus lost her license.

These abortion opponents are insane and this is about what they do when they don't get their way in court or in the legislature.

[Blue_Tires]

18. +1

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. One more thing. You can't abort a healthy late-term fetus with a healthy mother.

That has ALWAYS been against the law.

[crunch60]

16. You and "a bunch of other people"? speak for yourself. A 9 year old should not

be having a baby!!

quote'
There needs to be more actual life care for babies born to mothers who are too mentally ill to birth them........ DREAM ON!

[nanabugg]

59. If the nine year old had been a pregnant fetus this would have been allowed, maybe. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

20. It really is none of your business

Nor the business of the state of Kansas what the mental health of these women was.

However, late term abortions are all medically necessary in Kansas. But go right ahead and defend rw fundies who would deny a 10 year old child an abortion.

P S if you don't want replies to your defense of the indefensible, don't post.

[RainDog]

22. soapbox and straw woman posturing

what do you contribute by posting this? nothing.

[quakerboy]

32. Why?

You seem to assume that everyone would/should agree with the statement "we should not abort healthy late-term fetuses, for anything but to protect the life of the mother". In fact, it seems to be the basis for your whole post.

But you give no reasoning for why. Can you explain?

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. It's a ridiculous discussion because that's never been legal anyway.

At least not in Kansas. A woman in good health carrying a healthy fetus can't get a late term abortion. I don't know of any state in the country where that is legal.

[quakerboy]

41. Fair enough

I was curious about the reasoning, anyhow. I have to admit, I know relatively little about abortion. Except in its naturally occuring forms. But I got my degree in biology, and I don't see any clear line where you can say "over here its a small ball of cells, over here its a human being". As far as I can tell its all the same, unless the non-mother part can survive on its own outside the womb. That's kinda where I arbitrarily draw my line.

[Sans__Culottes]

40. That isn't for you or me to decide.

It should *ONLY* be decided by the woman and her doctor.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. +1

[Celebration]

44. everyone has a story

Late term abortions are exceedingly rare, for good reason. Do you think women want a late term abortion? No! These women seeking late term abortions all had exceptional circumstances..................

I heard one man interviewed after Dr. Tiller's death. He and his wife were desperate to have children, and finally she conceived twins, and they were really happy. In the seventh month, they found out that both twins had a condition that would have them in a lot of pain, and then die before they were a year old. It was not diagnoseable earlier. They made the painful decision to abort, and they had to travel to Dr. Tiller to get an abortion, because no other doctor in the country would do it. Most likely this mother fell into the "mental health" category.

That is just ONE story. But everyone has a different one. Please try to realize this. Healthy mothers and babies do NOT seek late term abortions.

[Sivafae]

45. Not attacking, just pointing out fallacious thinking. Mental health issues ARE medical issues.

Mental health issues are caused by disorders of the brain, which are physically based and thus medical. To separate Medical issues from Mental health issues shows that you are not studied enough to make such decisions. Please leave such decisions to medically trained and educated professionals. People with mental health issues are not moral debased or incapable of morality. They just suffer from brain disorders that result in behavioural problems not physical problems.

And to go further, science has been proving that addiction is also medically based, not morally based.

[csziggy]

53. If you read up on Dr. Tiller you will see he was one of the few doctors left

Who still did medically necessary late term abortions. Dr. Ann Kristin Neuhaus simply provided the second opinion which had been added as a legal obstacle to the procedures.

In the stories after Dr. Tiller was murdered were many cases of women who desperately wanted their children but who had medical conditions that would kill them if the pregnancy continued. That was why they needed the abortions - to save their lives. Dr. Tiller did not perform abortions late in the pregnancy on a whim, he only did it to save the women's lives. He was not killing "healthy late-term babies with relatively healthy mothers".

The procedures for aborting fetuses that late in pregnancy are seldom taught anymore and there are few doctors with that knowledge and even fewer that can or will use that knowledge because of the legal ramifications. This puts women's lives at risk because religious fanatics have decided to interfere with women's personal health decisions.

[crunch60]

62. Pro life ...... Not!

Just once I’d like to see a real journalist ask one of those pro-birth jackasses why the hell it is so important for children to be born if they don’t want to do a fucking thing for them once they’re on the planet. We were all fetuses at one time, yet now we don’t deserve health care.
Women have fought for decades for equal protection,choice,and self determination. RowvWade is being diluted and obstructed by Republicans anxious to please their paymasters.. They are all frightened cowards who really are worthless when we review their sordid behavior and their kickbacks for votes.

People who love to yell that it’s a taking of a life…why aren’t you screaming about better gun laws, or murdered women from abuse, or the millions of innocent women and children murdered in Iraq. The list is too long for this comment. The point is, those who yell about taking a life only seem to care about it till birth.

[RitchieRich]

54. Agreed

You just put it more nicely than I would have.

The nine year old may have been 8 when conception occurred. This seems HIGHLY uncommon. Life is rotten, messy: break ups, abuse, etc. Still, D&C on an 8 month old fetus? I would actually go along with the Right on this issue if it weren't a transparent first step towards a total ban.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Here's a more thorough article:

http://www.newser.com/article/d9vidgig2/kansas-doctor-unapologetic-after-board-revokes-license-amid-debate-over-abortion-referrals.html

[RainDog]

25. thanks.

their claims against her are based upon them violating patients' rights to privacy.

this is a witch hunt.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

27. yes

[leftynyc]

24. Motherfuckers!!!

It used to be that republicans were merely the opposition. Now they're the enemy.

[longship]

28. Plus, she lost her license for cause

I presume that her medical career is in tatters. All for blind political purpose.

Pitiful people who did this.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. They've been after her for years

Phill Kline raided her house in the middle of the night looking for medical records. Once he got them, they were stored in a Rubbermaid container in one of Phill's assistant's dining rooms. Then Bill O'Reilly got to see them.

Phill will probably lose his license to practice law in Kansas over how he hounded Dr. Neuhaus and shared her medical records. So that's some justice.

But this whole thing just stinks.

[slackmaster]

34. She would have to move to another state

I've mentioned this previously, but both my father and his brother, now both deceased, were medical doctors in Kansas prior to Roe v. Wade. Elective abortions for any reason were illegal then, but women did get abortions in Kansas. My father moved us to California in the early 1960s. Pre-Roe abortion laws were similar in both states.

Women quietly passed around phone numbers. Someone who wanted an abortion would call the number, and be told to meet a practitioner at a nondescript location typically in an office park at night or on a weekend when nobody else was around.

The practitioner would be a nurse, a medical student, a veterinarian, or a real medical doctor who needed money. The person would perform the procedure, usually a quick dilation and curettage. The woman was told to go home and never call the number or return to the location again, and to go to a hospital emergency room if she experienced pain, bleeding, or a fever.

That's how things really were before Roe v. Wade in Kansas, and in California.

[HockeyMom]

35. My Aunt, married in her 40s, used the doctor who delivered her two kids (grown up at time)

She paid him a lot of money to say a pregnancy could kill her. Therapeutic abortions were legal in NY in the 1940s. One of her daughter's was a nurse at the hospital where it was done.

[slackmaster]

37. It's very interesting listening to women over 70 or so talk about the subject of abortion

Especially after they've had a few glasses of wine to loosen up.

Everyone that age who went to high school before Roe v. Wade knows someone who died or was permanently injured by a botched illegal abortion.

Everyone that age knows someone, or even has a family member, who got pregnant as an unmarried teenager and was sent away for several months so she could deliver the baby in secret then give it up for adoption. The typical story told to her schoolmates was "She broke a leg."

Most women that age have no problem with legal elective abortions, particularly ones done in the first trimester. After that it gets murkier, but there is near universal agreement that a late-term abortion should be legal to prevent ANY medical harm to a woman, including psychological harm.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. I'm not yet 60 and I remember a neighbor when I was a little girl

I was maybe 8 or 9 and we had a neighbor who died from an illegal abortion. It was very sad. She left a husband and a couple small children.

In fact, that's how I found out what abortion was. I heard my parents talking about it and I asked them what an abortion was. They wouldn't tell me so I asked my grandmother. She explained it to me. I had just learned the 'facts of life' so it was pretty stunning to learn that someone I know had died because she didn't want to have a baby.

[HockeyMom]

46. I'm 63 and went to Catholic HS

Oh, there were girls who went on "extended vacations" even in NYC Catholic HS. Yep, I know exactly what you mean. I personally knew one girl who went "back to Sweden to visit family". Hmm. I guess she was one of the very lucky ones, if you know what I mean. I graduated HS in 1966, so I cannot say what it was like in the 70s. NYS legalized abortion in 1971. A bit later than my HS years, but I myself went on the Pill in 1969. I have heard other people in other states saying BC was illegal back then. Not where I am from. I remember boys in my apartment building filling up condoms with water and throwing them out the windows down to the sidewalks. That had to be late 50s or early 60s because the boys were my age. Where did they get them if even condoms were illegal? I would guess they raided their Dad's bureau.

[kiranon]

60. I'm 70 and agree completely. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. At a Dr. Tiller memorial we held, an elderly woman told her story

It was the 1950s. She was 6 or 7 months pregnant and her baby died in the womb. Her doctor told her she needed an abortion but no one would do it because even with a dead baby, abortion was illegal. So she had to carry it to term and ended up nearly dying from the infection.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. They used hotels and motels

I had friends when I was in high school (before 1973) who met their family doctor in a local motel or motel and he did the abortion there. A few doctors used their own offices after hours.

[Odin2005]

49. The Christo-Fascists are thugs no different that the Taliban

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. No they aren't.

Good call.

[RKP5637]

51. Yep, same thing, they just go by a different label. Use the God word and

the Jesus word in the US and it gets you a lot of mileage, often no questions asked. It's a very dangerous recipe.

[crunch60]

61. The Christo-Facists are not pro life, they are rabid anti abortion, they could care less about

the Mother or her physical or mental health issues. Yes, they are Americas own Taliban.

[lynne]

52. Not enough information in the article to form an opinion -

- it just says "Neuhaus had failed to sufficiently examine 11 patients, who were seeking abortions after 22 weeks, in 2003". It doesn't indicate what is considered sufficient and what was legally required vs what she actually did.

I hope that another article will clarify what went on.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Here's a different article

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/06/24/kansas-board-health-revokes-license-doctor-not-forcing-10-year-olds-to-give-birth

[BlueIris]

57. Vile. Just vile.

Shame on these misogynist opponents of choice.